Developer Workshop: Saryn Revisited 2.0

[(XBOX)Jes9119]

5 minutes ago, Camato said:

I think you are missunterstanding something here.

Miasma is going to proc a viral damage, and spores are doing the corrosive damage.

 

Maybe it got already covered in anther post.

But i wonder, since it says, spores are getting spread when a enemy dies by them.  Does this also count for enemys killed by your teammembers or yourself with any weapon?

IF this is not the case, it seems pretty useless, unless your team wants to wait till the spores kill a target. (good luck against corpus)

Another thing i would like to know, maybe from another experienced Saryn player,

is it intended that the viral damage from your current spores hit the shield of corpus instead of the life itself?

Have you used Saryn to any extent? Her current one spreads viral, any of those bubbles popped by either lash or any weapon from anyone will spread to more enemies and her current miasma will pop them all which gets amplified over a large area if you have a spore covered molt hanging out nearby. I didn’t misunderstand anything said. What I said was why change miasma? There isn’t anything wrong with it. And as for for dealing with corpus the current viral proc bypasses shields and goes straight for health and with the upcoming change that wouldn’t be the case. They’re taking out what makes her one literally the best reason it’s her one to begin with

Edited May 11, 2018 by (XB1)residentevilpro

[Knight_Ex]

Someone confirm if weapons still scale the spore damage, if this isn't the case then this is a straight nerf plain and simple.

[noah33noah]

3 minutes ago, Knight_Ex said:

Wait, so spores are no longer required to be popped with a primary weapon and scale on the damage? Cause if thats the case thats a MAJOR nerf to Saryn's kit, and sounds like the changes are made because of recent onslaught and the massive number of Saryn players, I understand the majority of people use the tired and true method of Molt+spore+spray and pray to deal damage, however there are some of us who prefer a more hands on approach like with manually casting spores on enemies taking out your most powerful weapon and landing a headshot, a Lanka with a crit riven combined with saryns spores ment the map would die quickly,  it sounds like DE is once again dumbing down mechanics on a frame while at the same time nerfing them to the ground damage wise, now granted this might not be the case, if I can still pop spores with my primary weapon and scale my damage off that then thats fine, however if I can only deal spore damage by recasting the ability or scaling off my power strength then I'm done with the frame altogether and will chalk it up to another Frame that DE dumbed down with a nerf cause they couldn't handle the scaling the players could achieve.

You can still pop spores with weapons, so no worries there. You cant spread toxic procs anymore though, but you do get infinite escalating damage.

[Knight_Ex]

Just now, noah33noah said:

You can still pop spores with weapons, so no worries there. You cant spread toxic procs anymore though, but you do get infinite escalating damage.

They don't say that though, they said that spores are popped by casting again, you need to place at least 3 spores on the enemy so that the damage scaling compensates with the range of current saryn, otherwise you can't spread the spores.

[noah33noah]

Just now, Knight_Ex said:

They don't say that though, they said that spores are popped by casting again, you need to place at least 3 spores on the enemy so that the damage scaling compensates with the range of current saryn, otherwise you can't spread the spores.

They showed it in the prime time pre-show (you can rewatch it on twitch), shooting at spores stil caused them to pop.

[Darkuhn]

Gerade eben schrieb Knight_Ex:

They don't say that though, they said that spores are popped by casting again, you need to place at least 3 spores on the enemy so that the damage scaling compensates with the range of current saryn, otherwise you can't spread the spores.

Also with toxic lash active you pop the spores with every hit.

[Konachibi]

- DE is 'fixing' Saryn, even though she already works pretty good.

- Meanwhile, Titania has been an absolute mess since her release and has been ignored.

Also, my Saryn build is designed purely for melee, she actually works better that way (Healing Return + Toxic Lash is a crazy good combo, it makes her extremely deadly and nearly invincible against anything but incredibly heavy hitters) , so I hope you haven't broken it!

Edited May 11, 2018 by Konachibi

[Knight_Ex]

I wish we had a beta test server where we could have access to these frames so we could get some hands on, anytime these reworks pop up there are either to nerf damage or dumb down mechanics to make it more casually friendly, which is weird cause of the whole mentality to get rid of press 4 to win.

[Whoops320]

Personally i don't like the change to corrosive damage on her spores, just doesn't feel like the right choice for a toxin and viral focused frame, just keep the viral damage. Instead of removing the ability to cast spores on molt it would be better IMO to limit it to 1 cast of spores per molt to make the initial spread a little easier, so if u wanna keep casting spores on molt u gotta cast another molt first and with it being invulnerable for a few seconds i imagine it can't be recast during that duration making it so u can't spam it.

Edited May 11, 2018 by Whoops320

[(XBOX)Jes9119]

Maybe spreading #Sarynisdead on twitter might get noticed more than the litany of complaints against this.

[Knight_Ex]

2 minutes ago, Konachibi said:

- DE is 'fixing' Saryn, even though she already works pretty good.

- Meanwhile, Titania has been an absolute mess since her release and has been ignored.

Also, my Saryn build is designed purely for melee, she actually works better that way (Healing Return is a godsend to her and makes her nearly invincible against anything but incredibly heavy hitters) , so I hope you haven't broken it!

Again which makes no sense, my only conclusion is this reward will incorporate some kind of nerf to her kit that they are not explaining fully, I mean jesus Titania is a great example, another could be Valkyrie or even Nova, so many of these other frames should have been looked at long before Saryn, again this might have to do with the Onslaught and how well Saryn can clear the map with a proper spore build....you can't deny that the timing of the "rework" is fishy.

[(XBOX)Jes9119]

2 minutes ago, Knight_Ex said:

Again which makes no sense, my only conclusion is this reward will incorporate some kind of nerf to her kit that they are not explaining fully, I mean jesus Titania is a great example, another could be Valkyrie or even Nova, so many of these other frames should have been looked at long before Saryn, again this might have to do with the Onslaught and how well Saryn can clear the map with a proper spore build....you can't deny that the timing of the "rework" is fishy.

Dude the timing with almost any endless type mission and a certain frames rework is always fishy. They’ve been doing this since they killed Valkyr before SotR with her Rathuum changes...

Edited May 11, 2018 by (XB1)residentevilpro

[noah33noah]

Just now, Knight_Ex said:

Again which makes no sense, my only conclusion is this reward will incorporate some kind of nerf to her kit that they are not explaining fully, I mean jesus Titania is a great example, another could be Valkyrie or even Nova, so many of these other frames should have been looked at long before Saryn, again this might have to do with the Onslaught and how well Saryn can clear the map with a proper spore build....you can't deny that the timing of the "rework" is fishy.

The saryn rework is something pablo has been working on since february, he disigned the first saryn rework, nidus and harrow. Rebb has specificaly said that this is not in response to SO and the rest of the team is most likely working on other things (they mentioned khora changes for the next devstream). 

[Konachibi]

4 minutes ago, Knight_Ex said:

Again which makes no sense, my only conclusion is this reward will incorporate some kind of nerf to her kit that they are not explaining fully, I mean jesus Titania is a great example, another could be Valkyrie or even Nova, so many of these other frames should have been looked at long before Saryn, again this might have to do with the Onslaught and how well Saryn can clear the map with a proper spore build....you can't deny that the timing of the "rework" is fishy.

I'd say if that was the case they'd need to look at Banshee's Soundquake first.  She can wipe everything off the map every 5 seconds just by pressing 4, and so long as there's a Trinity of they're using the right focus type they can do it indefenitely.  In comparison at least Saryn's Spores take time to spread and require at least some input from the player to do so.

[Knight_Ex]

1 minute ago, noah33noah said:

The saryn rework is something pablo has been working on since february, he disigned the first saryn rework, nidus and harrow. Rebb has specificaly said that this is not in response to SO and the rest of the team is most likely working on other things (they mentioned khora changes for the next devstream). 

No offense, but they can say that someone has been working on it for the past year and it doesn't make it true without any kind of proof, if they had begun rework on her that early in time then they should have mentioned something to the community instead of saying "Oh no this has nothing to do with response to SO we had this started in Feburary, sorry but I call BS on that, the timing is too convenient.

[Jukantos]

Keep playing whack-a-mole with farming builds. You will eventually stop or all frames will just be used for melee. You can not stop power farming strats in a power fantasy game which asks you to level up weapons 7 times without cutting too much power for the regular gameplay simultaneously. It won't work.

Oh and for the next moles: "rework" equinoxs day form 4 and maybe wukong while you're at it, or just hit ember again (she's still dumb vs low lvl enemies)

 

Disclaimer: i just finished my 4th forma on saryn, post may contain critical levels of salt

[MysteriousPixie]

I don’t know if this has been said before, but perhaps melee when using toxic lash could still restore energy? Less than before, sure, but still some?

[LordMarogar]

All in all im am looking forward to this. It's has been quite some time since i could be optimistik about a rework.

Unlike other fellow Tenno im happy about the damage typ swap between Spore and Miasma. To all of you who are worried about it, pleas ceep in mind that Viral only takes away 1/2 of the enemys HP, witch I do agree is great but you still have the other 1/2 to deal with. So if theye are walking fortresses becaus of the armor, without the coresponding damage you will not be able to take them down viral prock ore not. Needles to say that her Kit sill has that ablity.

So here's an idea for you: Cast Spore; let it propagate; use Miasma and then detonate the Spores. At least this is what im am going to experiment with as soon as the update hits.

BUT

I do have some Ideas i would like to pas on for Spore, Molt and Miasma. Fingers krosed they will get some atancion.

Spore:

Pleas consider giving the ability a tap and hold typ of mechanic. Taping 1 will cast the ability like it used to. Holding 1 will detonate the Spores. My reason behinde this is simple. Enemys on moderate to large maps dont group up, theye are all over the place. If no enemy with Spores is near we are forced to detonate premeturly in order to recast, witch will hurt the abilitys damage potential since it's a Proc. To limit the damge from ramping up to fast you could limit detonation of the Spores to the range of the ability. Thus only counting the enemys nfected that are in the sphere of influence of Spores. 

Molt:

Concerning Saryns go to "oh S#&$ button" i mearly wish to impart an idea, witch in my opinin is not necessary but would be welcome. Pleas consider giwing Molt the passiv ablility so triger it self if an (x) amount of damage in time (t) . Like a reflexsiv reaction to danger. Ore ad it in her agument for the mode. This would especialy helpe clumsy peopel like me how have to star search for button in panic moments.😋

Miasma:

I have read it hear and there in the coments a few times and i would welcome a change fo the way the ability works. Could we have Miasma leave a infested ospreylike hazardous Cloud behinde where the ability is cast? Ore do away with the duration and make it in to an toggle ability. It would fit the theme better and would adress some worries about ceeping the viral Proc on as many enemys as possible. Naturaly the damage would need ajusting. Further more it would have a greater visula impact the in the current iteration.

Thanks you for reading and giveng the ideas tougth, DE as well es fellow Tenno... and I hope you can forgive my horrible spelling. 

 

[noah33noah]

3 minutes ago, Knight_Ex said:

No offense, but they can say that someone has been working on it for the past year and it doesn't make it true without any kind of proof, if they had begun rework on her that early in time then they should have mentioned something to the community instead of saying "Oh no this has nothing to do with response to SO we had this started in Feburary, sorry but I call BS on that, the timing is too convenient.

The proof is the first thing they show at the beginning of the stream, rebb shows a screenshot of what seems to be a small logbook entry from 16 feb. Do you really think pablo came up with this rework in under three weeks?

[Knight_Ex]

People who are brimming with excitement have not experienced how Saryn works first hand, but again there is nothing wrong with her kit, as I said this is what I believe is DE's response to the Onslaught and at the same time a nerf to Saryn's kit due to map clearing prowess, again those of us that are experienced with Saryn and understand how her abilities synergize with eachother enjoy the way she plays, she was one of the VERY limited frames that requires actual skill to maximize her damage potential, when the map was suddenly killed or constantly dying when the enemies were over level 150 you could take pride in knowing that you were the cause of that, I really can't find anything else to say without actually trying out the rework, I honestly don't trust DE to not completely bork everything with their special touch of nerf this nerf that and then make some balance adjustments afterward, so my response # leaveSarynAlone

[ShocK.-]

Please dont put voices on warframes :(

[SixDimensions]

1 minute ago, ShocK.- said:

Please dont put voices on warframes 😞

I don't think it's a literal voice, hence the quotes around "voice" in the quote (inquoteception). Probably it's more akin to Gara audio in that her abilities have pronounced and unique sounds whereas Saryn is just muffled noises. Just my guess though

 

@[DE]Danielle @[DE]Aidan Will we be getting any word on how/if Cloud Contagion augment scales? If so, with Power range/strength/duration? Or with weapons multishot/punchthrough/crit/mods?

If this was mentioned in the prime time please disregard. I haven't watched it yet

[Shidonia]

From the stream I can tell that Molt + Miasma combo is ripped as well. Why not give her 3 starting spores toxic viral and corrosive damage types cuz clearly swapping between damage types wasn't a good decision but we can have 3 of those in single cast then problem is solved. 

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

40 minutes ago, FunnyBunny3141 said:

I don’t know if this has been said before, but perhaps melee when using toxic lash could still restore energy? Less than before, sure, but still some?

It was already low to begin with before this Saryn Revisit 2.0, and sure it did help with her energy economy but not by much (it was only a fixed 2 energy per Spore popped via Toxic Lash regardless of mods).

I want to propose that the energy regen based on Spore popped by Toxic Lash be retained instead of taking it out of her kit completely as well. However @[DE]Pablo what I’d like to see is a revised mechanic similar to Nidus’ stacks based on his Power 1 where it’s based on Saryn’s efficiency stat. Max efficiency with Saryn when she casts Toxic Lash would only benefit the base 2 energy per Spore popped by the Power, but at minimum efficiency Toxic Lash receives higher energy gains feedback per Spore popped.

Would this be possible? Please let us know your thoughts on the matter. The majority of us Saryn mains don’t want to see this portion of the Toxic Lash + Spore synergy go away with the reasoning of increased duration(s) across the board with her kit.

Edited May 11, 2018 by (PS4)Lei-Lei_23

[Knight_Ex]

Once you recast spores it will detonate all currently cast spores on the map.....THATS A NERF    , Jesus no, so after watching the video I don't care how much damage buildup you can get overtime, the spores will not have a chance to achieve high numbers, Ok lets do the math here, currently right now you cast spores on an enemy and then take your super powered gas damage weapon and fire at the spore, Lanka is the usual contender with a riven for stupidly high damage, anyway so you fire off your lanka into the cluster of spored enemies and then deal your burst damage which then does ridiculous numbers, then you let those spores start to circulate and infect the map, then you turn your attention to a fresh group of enemies, one doesn't have a spore because it spawned in before the initial spread, no problem cast spore again, rinse and repeat until you see the damage ticks all over the maps and the groans from the enemies as they die,   now the NEW spore changes,

See the group of enemies, Cast spores, shoot with Lanka, spores start ticking damage, however its not enough damage, and its taking too long to kill said enemies even after an initial high damage shot, recast spores to stack damage....but wait OOPS, all your spores detonate and you lose that stacking damage, the new spores start ticking with the new scaling damage but you still are not dealing enough starter damage to drop them as fast as old Saryn, sure you will eventually get ridiclous high numbers but once the spores are doing one hit damage the cap resists, you can not have persisting damage to scale off of cause the spores were cleared from the map,   anyone how plays spores with direct damage will understand how this will be a nerf especially against high leveled enemies, sure if you want to only affect a targeted group of enemies and wait for your tick damage to actually do enough to kill them, or you can burst them down in a matter of seconds with old Saryn kit with a bit more elbow grease of work,  again I say #LeaveSarynAlone

 

OH and viral does more damage then corrossive, so the change from viral to corrossive spores makes a difference too.

Edited May 11, 2018 by Knight_Ex