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Developer Workshop: Saryn Revisited 2.0

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2 hours ago, Eutuxia said:

Its the same old tactic(cast spore and toxic lash melee around killing n spreading it) except this time you are tank-ier, spores deal crazy high damage and our panic button4 got its high range back. All in all good rework xD

spores are spread on kill and range between of spore and enemy is low. with old saryn you could spread more of them with toxic lash and 145% rng in comparison to 250% now. and ppl are like "this is as it should be", while most of player keep complain about it. and guess what no change or fix after 3 hot fixes, mean DE does not listen to us 1%.

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10 hours ago, RobWasHere said:

Remove or fix buggy LoS for Spores. It's really a limiter here. Sometimes popped spores get spreaded over whole rooms, then next it wont infect a dude standing behind a knee tall crate.

Recasting to detonate all spores is very awkward. I feel that it should be changed to tap to cast, hold to detonate. Sometimes, especially with broken LoS, you would want spores on enemies that suddenly appeared next to you. Naturally you try to cast them again, but you loose all accumulated damage this way instead...

Apart from that, her powers are good only when there are a lot of enemies around (like endless or onslaught) otherwise she struggles. And you cant rely on very first ability on lower levels, because enemies will just die too quick to spread spores on enemies that are on the way. Molt has now proper aggro pulling, good for distracting while you smacking things with CO melee. Miasma feels weak, but still does that sweet hp reduction and fuels CO further. Toxic lash working on every weapon is a welcome change as well.

you have a point, and i do agree what you say. spores are her thing so if we get just that fixed so it can spread as they should this rework would be very good. after much invest and grind to meke her very good , now all i get nerf of spores. eaven b4 with simple mods like streach, continuity, intensify was batter spred of spores to more enemy than i can get now. so earlier  reactor, 1 forma vs reactor, 4 formas, primed and valuted mods (grind for and max them, spended time to tune her for unisex play) and cheaper build was batter, than more expencive build now after rewok. we end up with bugged, nerfed and broken ability which ruin our new and intended game play. Intercept, def, md, surv and ext mission was her thing. now just eos and long run surv. so there are players who keep saying this is good thing and  is batter now(bugged, nefrd and broken) i wonder are they DE bots, half barain lobotomised bots or noob bots. saryn is now less effective and have limited usage than b4. and players keep using mechanich game are providing us, and we get nerf in return. nerf of frame (we gonna fck it up than they will like it). spores need tune, sprad it self is bad. guve it few runes trough star achart and you will see.

Edited by -HoB-AngelofRevenge

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12 hours ago, RobWasHere said:

Remove or fix buggy LoS for Spores. It's really a limiter here. Sometimes popped spores get spreaded over whole rooms, then next it wont infect a dude standing behind a knee tall crate.

Spores are not affected by LoS

ZjR4d.jpg

Saryn_Spore_LoS_Test_Solo_Hydron_Sedna_Wave_2

 

Full Spread Test Topic

Edited by Cibyllae

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I welcome this change, and actually am re-downloading the game as of typing this. Saryn used to be my favorite, and I am eagerly looking forward to playing with her again 🙂

Keep up the great work, team!

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Looks good enough for me to go try it 😄

Now please look at Ember.She needs a full rework aswell. tyvm<3.

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im loving this rework, but i have 1 issue with it that could be easily solved: looking for the spored enemies. Couldnt the spores or enemies that have spores on them be visible through walls with your energy colour to find them better?

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55 minutes ago, Ziv2905 said:

Looks good enough for me to go try it 😄

Now please look at Ember.She needs a full rework aswell. tyvm<3.

ember is "reworked" recently

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8 hours ago, -HoB-AngelofRevenge said:

ember is "reworked" recently

Got ruined. By making Ember have to get closer to enemies to kill them. now not that this is the problem because im not one of those afkers but Ember doesnt have ANY survivability and by doing that its just a question on when you are going to die. pretty much above lvl 30 mobs ember is useless.

Im talking about a rework ON the rework. Even if it means changing her abilities completely.

The rework they did on her is just...bad. Didnt solve anything and made it just a bit harder to do the SAME thing as before..Plus it just caused more problems with Ember instead of actually "fixing" or "balancing" Ember which was pretty much the purpose for all this.

Dumb move from DE towards Ember players because now everyone will quit her and its a shame because this frame has so much potential.

Its time to solve this one way or another but DE doesnt respond on it even though alot of people are complaining. 

Its time to fix Ember DE. Please.

Edited by Ziv2905
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12 minutes ago, Ziv2905 said:

Got ruined. By making Ember have to get closer to enemies to kill them. now not that this is the problem because im not one of those afkers but Ember doesnt have ANY survivability and by doing that its just a question on when you are going to die. pretty much above lvl 30 mobs ember is useless.

Im talking about a rework ON the rework. Even if it means changing her abilities completely.

The rework they did on her is just...bad. Didnt solve anything and made it just a bit harder to do the SAME thing as before. 

Dumb move from DE towards Ember players because now everyone will quit her and its a shame because this frame has so much potential.

Its time to solve this one way or another but DE doesnt respond on it even though alot of people are complaining. 

Its time to fix Ember DE. Please.

just look on saryn, spres know to brake. enemy null no help, die, jump off map as well. spread also know to by pass enemy behind wall. give few runs trough star chart and dissapointed in lack of batter term. expecialy with ext missions and search for medalions. either way you can only hope for another rewok, since it is intended play style by DE standards.  cant prove to ppl we players make statisic %, if statisctic show something is spamed, overused than "rework" incoming. so we are just statistic. if you dont agree take example of nidus, simulor, mirage, telos boltace, saryn, ember, limbo, gammacor, sonicor, smeeta kavat etc which all recived rework. some for batter some for worse. 

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Ok, after testing her for a few days I went through the hype to realize than the new Saryn is annoying and boring and I'll try to explain why:

1) The new armor is a bless for her in MY gameplay because I love melee.

2) Spores: I have three issues with the spores... In my first try with this skill I went crazy for the HIGH damage, tried builds with Power Strenght because I play melee and the block damage reduction is a MUST in endgame, with Range for the spores ofc! It was fun to watch all my enemies dying because of the spores in the first minutes but man, I can't kill with any melee if they die in 1-2 seconds!! After more tests I noticed that with this PWR STR you HAVE to play her with range weapons doing 3+1+shoot+wait+1+shoot+wait+1+shoot+wait and with this you can clean maps, but when that was fun? Didn't you NERFED Banshee and Ember because of this?
The second issue with the spores is that before this rework we had the 2 and 3 to spread spores and ofc I had TIME to spread spores using the 3 because the enemies were not dying in a second, but now I can't put an aggro Turret filled with spores to spread them AND I can't spread those things because when I reach a creature the poor thing is already dead and if they die before I hit them those spores will only have HALF of their reach to spread, so without my turret I have to be pressing 1 all the time... Can you explain me where is the energy friendly feature!?!?!?!?!? I never used Zenurik for Saryn and now I have to!!
And last the Duration... Ftw have you did with the duration? I was like "Ohh yeah!! Now I'll not need to spam spores thanks to this" and then with the nerf to the Spread Synergies listed before and realizing than the other 3 skills needs Duration... Guys, seriously?

3) Molt: I need to know WHY? This skill is USELESS as 😄 now! Man IF WE HAVE a STUN with our Miasma, can you explain me WHY do we NEED speed? Why have you killed not 1 but 2 synergies with this NERF to this skill? I loved you DE because this game is not supposed to be for stupid/lazy people who can't search in the  wiki about how some skills works, but with this nerf... Do I have to start worrying about having a game where our Devs took our hands so we don't end lost like crippled idiots that can't think for ourselves? Man now I'm getting worried about my Gara's future... I mean, c'mon! Putting Molt to distract some grineers, casting Spores, spreading them with Toxic Lash and destroying everything with Miasma was AWESOME and now? Speed boost? Really?
And what about that inmunity of 3 secs? Do you seriously think than this is helpful to have more HP in the Molt? This skills needs like 5-7 inmunity seconds to gain more HP or at least let it scale with ARMOR now that we have some!
And ofc again the issue with the Duration.

4) Toxic Lash: I loved it, till this rework. Played this skill a lot for its blocking damage and getting energy while kicking some sick asses but now? I have to play it with NO PWR STR because the damn spores don't let me hit a single THING! -_-"! And without PWR STR this skills doesn't block a 😄 and the Spores doesn't proc! Do you get my point? Btw its augment needs more range or a way to scale its range with range mods.
And again the issue with the Duration.

5) Miasma: you killed this skill AGAIN, not with the damage type change, you killed it with the synergies nerf, you should put Miasma as our first skill and spores as our last one because Miasma is a stupid (big) stun now. You can't compare its damage with the spores damage and without the synergies it is useless as a finisher skill.
Oh I almost forgot, this one NEEDS Duration and Power Strenght to do more damage lol.

So, guys, what the hell have you did to Saryn? We only needed the armor buff and the Toxic Lash buff on any weapon, all the other changes were not needed, came bugged and made Saryn boring and annoying so FIX IT, put her like it was before this NERF, PLEASE!! I don't want to wait another year for the right fixes when she was FINE.

PS: sorry for my bad english.

Edited by Seinra
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Well Saryn is pretty good now but technically the core gameplay changes depends on what the teammates will do and warframe/s they're using. As Brozime said, I hope she will not get "Gara-ed". 🕒

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7 hours ago, Seinra said:


2) Spores: I have three issues with the spores... In my first try with this skill I went crazy for the HIGH damage, tried builds with Power Strenght because I play melee and the block damage reduction is a MUST in endgame, with Range for the spores ofc! It was fun to watch all my enemies dying because of the spores in the first minutes but man, I can't kill with any melee if they die in 1-2 seconds!! After more tests I noticed that with this PWR STR you HAVE to play her with range weapons doing 3+1+shoot+wait+1+shoot+wait+1+shoot+wait and with this you can clean maps, but when that was fun? Didn't you NERFED Banshee and Ember because of this?
The second issue with the spores is that before this rework we had the 2 and 3 to spread spores and ofc I had TIME to spread spores using the 3 because the enemies were not dying in a second, but now I can't put an aggro Turret filled with spores to spread them AND I can't spread those things because when I reach a creature the poor thing is already dead and if they die before I hit them those spores will only have HALF of their reach to spread, so without my turret I have to be pressing 1 all the time... Can you explain me where is the energy friendly feature!?!?!?!?!? I never used Zenurik for Saryn and now I have to!!
And last the Duration... Ftw have you did with the duration? I was like "Ohh yeah!! Now I'll not need to spam spores thanks to this" and then with the nerf to the Spread Synergies listed before and realizing than the other 3 skills needs Duration... Guys, seriously?.

Go negative strength, high range, high efficiency. You'll still do stupid damage, have 45m on Spore and 50m on Miasma.

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For some reason her spread (range) and damage are bit out of balance. I need around 220%+ range on her now to achieve a similar spread in non Onslaught missions from what I could achieve beforehand with 160-190%, mid range enemies. Power strength is almost not needed anymore as longs as its around 75-100%, pure range seems the way to go right now making modding her a bit boring !(?)

The damage output is a bit overtuned so everything dies before the spores can actually spread, making recasting a necessity (mid range enemies, 40ish). Shouldn't enemies killed spread spores too? This also screw with her energy efficency. In Onlsaught its mostly ok due toe the insane enemies density and she is borderline op BUT for everything else on the star chart she feels a bit cumebrsome to use due to the weird spread issue of spores. Not sure what it causes but it defintely feels less effective then it used to be. Not checked yet if toxic lash works as intended...

Furthermore the toughest job right now seems to maintain a spore spread. For some reason sometimes it just dies down, two enemies in range to each other maybe 20-30m apart and no spread. It seems a bit fishy to me, something must be not working as intended.

Edited by Zorndar
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shes strong like nidus when he came out feels really nice endgame and in sim room i just really hope the first week of ppl screaming how op she is doesn't get her NERFT like nidus and gara. both of those nerfs made the frames feel a lot less fun to play and made them less meta but there still op when used right. like spore was already insane when used with the right combo now it doesn't need a gas lanka to shred end game.

like some stuff probably needs to change so she is more consistent across the whole game but pablo the base god gave her more identy then she had in a long time

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Saryn spores for sure should be recastable on other enemies, no more detonating them with using spores again. But nerf spores spread, ONE hit is limited to spread to 4 or 5 nearest targets not affected by power strength. Means that Overextended builds are not the only meta for her spores, right now in one hit you can spread spores to even 30 enemies which is ridiculous. Building spores maybe should be the same as Nidus is buffing himself, long way to max them, and give her cap.

Corrosive % status must be lowered for sure around 25% maybe.

To that add mechanic where 2 or 3 saryns can spread spores to the same targets. Each target can have 3 spores so why not make mechanic where one of the spores is replaced by different saryn. Means that if there are 3 saryns they will just do their average spores damage, instead of blocking each other.

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molt needs a better way to force enemy aggro. maybe give saryn stealth for a second or 2 to really force molt aggro since its not functioning very well right now.

 

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On May 16, 2018 at 3:29 PM, DreadWarlock said:

Good thing you said in your opinion, I'll have to agree you're right. Unlike most players some people don't think that lack of challenge is fun, so no I don't intend to side with your argument on this one. Being powerful i all good untill you become powerful at cost of good sense.

You sir are a troll, just trying to get things nerfed to get people angry, this game was NEVER difficult since i started 4 years ago and nerfing everything into oblivion wont make it more challenging or less challenging  . It will only anger players and cause arguments. (Like right now) Thats all this will accomplish.

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DE FOR GOD SAKE... Don't change saryn 3 again, u just reworked her now and I'm getting used to her. Really enjoying playing her. Stop changing so fast let me get what to do pls give her at least a year.😭

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I don't like the new Spore(s?) system. It is (to me) terribly unrewarding. Yes, my single spore in the game may be scaling up to infinite, but it never spreads (i'm running with 250% range), and most of the times i end up losing the improved damage and having to cast again from base damage. 

Few QoL things you could do:

1) Highlight the spored enemy. Most of the times i don't even know who the affected guy is, and, if he is the only spored enemy (again, like most of the times) i have no choice but pop the spore losing all the damage and it feels BAD. Having a mark or a special color would help tracking him (/them) down and trying to spread the spores. 

2) Let the improved damage be "saved" into Saryn. This would especially help in missions like defenses or places where you don't have a constant flow of enemies. What i mean is: instead of losing all the hard earned damage on the last affected enemy's death, make it slowly drop over time, just like with Power Spike of Naramon school, and if you cast spore again you start again from that point.

Or just bring back old spores.

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9 minutes ago, Evhel.nVbs said:

I don't like the new Spore(s?) system. It is (to me) terribly unrewarding. Yes, my single spore in the game may be scaling up to infinite, but it never spreads (i'm running with 250% range), and most of the times i end up losing the improved damage and having to cast again from base damage. 

Few QoL things you could do:

1) Highlight the spored enemy. Most of the times i don't even know who the affected guy is, and, if he is the only spored enemy (again, like most of the times) i have no choice but pop the spore losing all the damage and it feels BAD. Having a mark or a special color would help tracking him (/them) down and trying to spread the spores. 

2) Let the improved damage be "saved" into Saryn. This would especially help in missions like defenses or places where you don't have a constant flow of enemies. What i mean is: instead of losing all the hard earned damage on the last affected enemy's death, make it slowly drop over time, just like with Power Spike of Naramon school, and if you cast spore again you start again from that point.

Or just bring back old spores.

while respecting ur opinion I don't dislike it. as I explained melee is combined with spore so she is more active play now. Now u can solo Elite OS ezly so I consider that nice. 

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8 minutes ago, Crimson_Ruby_313 said:

while respecting ur opinion I don't dislike it. as I explained melee is combined with spore so she is more active play now. Now u can solo Elite OS ezly so I consider that nice. 

Melee was always combined with spore. Only difference is that you would have to recast. And the other difference that is really big is the fact that it was viral. Her one time cast on ons elite is boring. And for it to work u usually have to mad range. Which means less space and more limits. Imo her 1 is just not worth it. Her whole rework is Not worth despite the buffs.

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5 minutes ago, Jebbers said:

Melee was always combined with spore. Only difference is that you would have to recast. And the other difference that is really big is the fact that it was viral. Her one time cast on ons elite is boring. And for it to work u usually have to mad range. Which means less space and more limits. Imo her 1 is just not worth it. Her whole rework is Not worth despite the buffs.

well not sure about it. the spore just spreads fast and is now corrosive which is good imo. u needed to cast much more in old saryn. u actually had to cast all the time, now it is once in a while. Saryn is always full range in 100+ enemies 

Edited by Crimson_Ruby_313

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4 minutes ago, Jebbers said:

Melee was always combined with spore. Only difference is that you would have to recast. And the other difference that is really big is the fact that it was viral. Her one time cast on ons elite is boring. And for it to work u usually have to mad range. Which means less space and more limits. Imo her 1 is just not worth it. Her whole rework is Not worth despite the buffs.

I agree, I went from playing Saryn with her 4 skills to playing range only for the spores and switching from melee to range weapons.

 

2 minutes ago, Crimson_Ruby_313 said:

well not sure about it. the spore just spreads fast and is now corrosive which is good imo. u needed to cast much more in old saryn. u actually had to cast all the time, now it is once in a while. Saryn is always full range in 100+ enemies 

Nah man, I played this warframe a lot and now is annoying because of the spore recast like 6 times per minute.

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9 minutes ago, Crimson_Ruby_313 said:

well not sure about it. the spore just spreads fast and is now corrosive which is good imo. u needed to cast much more in old saryn. u actually had to cast all the time, now it is once in a while. Saryn is always full range in 100+ enemies 

give few runs trough star chart, it wont spread as b4 nor will spread to enemy which was like 5m and behind wall. you can have it more spread with much less expencive build b4 rework with toxic lash (1 forma and reactor about 145-160% rng) than now on 250 rng. in short to spread them you need cluster of enemy, and if you get ember in party you can say pa pa to your spores 

Edited by -HoB-AngelofRevenge

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