Why Saryn?

[TALISMAN_XVII]

3 hours ago, TermiteFrame said:

Anyone who actually used Saryn in full capacity would know the only reason the spores help against the corpus is that they transfer toxin which ignores shields this has very little to do with spores being viral. Also sorry to burst your bubble this rework has been in the works since February before onslaught was a thing. And trust me she'll be just as effective in onslaught post rework, no, more effective in onslaught if you dinguses don't mess it up. But if you actually knew how status procs work and how saryn's kit operates you would know this already.

These "it's a nerf" people sound like the people who claimed that her original rework was a nerf. I sickeningly look forward to this ridiculousness in the coming days.

That's exactly my point, Viral is advantageous verses every faction! Corrosive isn't. 

Your arrogance is hilarious, if I didn't know any better I'd assume you where a DE employee the way you presume to know everything. So the Saryn rework has been in the works since February and sanctuary onslaught wasnt? It's obvious they knew then how capable Sayrn would be for wiping out the map. They preemptively planned this, don't be an imbecile all your life.  

[Ozamchist]

9 minutes ago, TALISMAN_XVII said:

That's exactly my point, Viral is advantageous verses every faction! Corrosive isn't. 

Your arrogance is hilarious, if I didn't know any better I'd assume you where a DE employee the way you presume to know everything. So the Saryn rework has been in the works since February and sanctuary onslaught wasnt? It's obvious they knew then how capable Sayrn would be for wiping out the map. They preemptively planned this, don't be an imbecile all your life.  

Viral is still in her kit and attached to a burst damage ability which is where viral status actually shines, while a new corrosive proc is attached to a multi tick infinite ticking dot which is where corrosive shines. This is a buff. You can pretend otherwise like the people with the last rework did, and you can remain an imbecile your entire life, but it's a buff. DE has had a pretty great track record with saryn's kit, and it's being done by the man who did her kit in the first place the same man who created harrow and nidus' kits. The fact that you can look at all of these changes and the people behind them and call it a nerf based on onslaught tells me how arrogant and out of touch you are with the frame. These early knee jerk "it's a nerf" reactions are almost a mirror to her first rework which was a case study in how many in this community over react and don't actually think things through or critically think or understand why certain things are strong in the first place.

[den2k]

12 hours ago, NoLazyShadow said:

ye..why Saryn? Valkyr, Limbo, Ember, useless khora, Gara, Titania, Vukong, Zephyr...they all need rework..but DE reworking saryn....oh

Valkyr is a war machine, capable of beating game modes that even Rhino can't. 1 and 3 are definetely eligible for change (1 not so much since it's a quick getaway which is helpful if energy is dwindling and enemies are inside the circle of doom) but she's far from needing rework.

Limbo... I didn't like its gamestyle but I saw some skilled Limbo users. The only thing I'd rework is making Banish working FROM the rift plane to the prime plane, since powers should already do that. Doing so would make Limbo invincible and too OP though so it's a big no.

Ember does what she already did: anything under level 30. She's lukewarm, I tried ODD solo with her and did not get any speed increase than with my Rhino. She's still fun to use.

Titania: now she's a damn funny frame, but barely usable. A rework is fully endorsed from me since I'd really enjoy playing her more.

Wukong: I like exactly 0 things about him and I keep him only for cloud walk. He's probably one fo the next to be sold. It should be redone from scratch.

Zephyr: I don't like power heavy frames and her maneuvrability requires help but I didn't find ther that bad.

 

Regarding the original post: This is a buff. I can't wait to get her and destroy everything with her Toxic Lash, Spores and Fire!Hystrix. Corrosive + Toxin + Flames with 100% status chance and punch through means total map annihilation. Also Status!Sobek and Acid Shells + Spore that now acts in the same way make me eager. Add Condition Overload and an exceedingly long Galatine Prime...

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

9 hours ago, TermiteFrame said:

Are.You. KIDDING ME!?

She's even more solo capable with the rework!

the ability to strip armor, the speed buff, the doubled toxic lash damage for melee, being able to use it on guns. 

If they release this rework as intended I'LL HEKKING DAMN SHOW YOU HOW IT'S A BUFF TO EVERYTHING.

But her power of spores and some what their effectiveness is based on number of enemies she's got currently infected.  and in solo spawns are less and spaced out.

[NoLazyShadow]

Только что, den2k сказал:

Valkyr is a war machine, capable of beating game modes that even Rhino can't. 1 and 3 are definetely eligible for change (1 not so much since it's a quick getaway which is helpful if energy is dwindling and enemies are inside the circle of doom) but she's far from needing rework.

well..she have problems since her release in update 11. Her hysterya was after update 13 cus it was using melee 1.0 system...them it was nerfed 2 times(if im right).

Back to her problems

1) Ripline is usefeull only as mobility tool. Vs enemys - ragdoll. You send them flying across the map.

Make ripline function like Ash teleport: you hook enemy directly to you and trigger finisher

2) Warcry. Cant recast. debuff is working only on enemys within cast range..not good especially when you use augment.

Make it recastabe and add slowdown aura

3)Paralysis. She shields to stun enemys but cant interupt enemy animations. ONLY usefull with augment, cus its mass CC + ground finisher with no need of shields

Rework it

4) Hysterya...oh god

Replace it/rework it..do what even you want but make my rage quit button fun and brutal like in New GoW - punch S#&$ to death and scream " Press F to pray! IM A DAD OF WAR! RHAAAAA!!!1"

5?)Second passive maybe? Like armor bonus when your health is droping

[GPrime96]

32 minutes ago, NoLazyShadow said:

well..she have problems since her release in update 11. Her hysterya was after update 13 cus it was using melee 1.0 system...them it was nerfed 2 times(if im right).

Back to her problems

1) Ripline is usefeull only as mobility tool. Vs enemys - ragdoll. You send them flying across the map.

Make ripline function like Ash teleport: you hook enemy directly to you and trigger finisher

2) Warcry. Cant recast. debuff is working only on enemys within cast range..not good especially when you use augment.

Make it recastabe and add slowdown aura

3)Paralysis. She shields to stun enemys but cant interupt enemy animations. ONLY usefull with augment, cus its mass CC + ground finisher with no need of shields

Rework it

4) Hysterya...oh god

Replace it/rework it..do what even you want but make my rage quit button fun and brutal like in New GoW - punch S#&$ to death and scream " Press F to pray! IM A DAD OF WAR! RHAAAAA!!!1"

5?)Second passive maybe? Like armor bonus when your health is droping

You really want Valkyr to not be the same frame? TBH, Valkyr is not Player Friendly. She's a Solid frame to someone who know a lot about her Mechanics like Paralysis + Hysteria can give you a full health instantly, WarCry affects her Talons attack Speed, WarCry slows down the enemies Paralysis Recovery, and Hysteria's Slide attack is higher than any Tonfa's Slide attack. If someone don't know about her Mechanics that much, she won't be as good. I can imagine DE doing tweaks to her to make her more Friendly to different player's Playstyle.

Edited May 11, 2018 by VPrime96

[NoLazyShadow]

Только что, VPrime96 сказал:

You really want Valkyr to not be the same frame?

She cant be something diffrent. She is rage kitty..but she must become the very meaning of irresistible rage and agony. Rip and Tear everyone with your bare hands and claws, god mode for weak, fast and strong attacks with constant sprint and the ability to attack on the run + melee 3.0  (Given that rapid attacks will be on LMB, and strong on RMB) =  we got perfect bad time coctale for our enemy

[GPrime96]

3 minutes ago, NoLazyShadow said:

She cant be something diffrent. She is rage kitty..but she must become the very meaning of irresistible rage and agony. Rip and Tear everyone with your bare hands and claws, god mode for weak, fast and strong attacks with constant sprint and the ability to attack on the run + melee 3.0  (Given that rapid attacks will be on LMB, and strong on RMB) =  we got perfect bad time coctale for our enemy

I doubt they would do that. I mean, look at Excal. He's a Melee frame but he throw waves of energy with his Exalted Blade. Warframe is not super Theme Specific.

[NoLazyShadow]

Только что, VPrime96 сказал:

I doubt they would do that. I mean, look at Excal. He's a Melee frame but he throw waves of energy with his Exalted Blade. Warframe is not super Theme Specific. 

Maybe. Exaltet blade energy waves are good thing...even after nerf. DE could use it with chanelling..if they not gonna remove it

Edited May 11, 2018 by NoLazyShadow

[Birdframe_Prime]

57 minutes ago, TALISMAN_XVII said:

Viral is advantageous verses every faction! Corrosive isn't

Hey, just thought I'd drop in and correct something.

As a Proc, the Viral Status is effective against all enemies, and Corrosive's Status is not, you're right on that. However Corrosive has only one type of HP resistant to it (Proto shields, which are run by Nullifiers, and Spores doesn't affect them in the first place) and has a bonus against the two types we want to get rid of the fastest (ferrite armour for Grineer and Fossil Armour for Ancients), while Viral is effective against Cloned Flesh and Flesh types, those two are hidden behind shields and armour, and it has a massive weakness against the base type of Infested unit HP meaning that one faction has a massive strength against Saryn and the other twofactions need you to use the combo procs of Toxin to actually deal damage.

So based purely on what damage types and proc types affect what enemies, this is actually smarter than I thought the change would be.

When you look at what the procs do to enemies, it genuinely makes more sense to have one ability able to proc Viral, guaranteed, instantly on the enemies near to you, the ones you're actually trying to damage, from a single radial cast. This is because Viral only affects enemies once, it doesn't stack, and because currently you have to cast, then Burst a spore to do the same thing, and the range on that Burst isn't exactly amazing so that's usually burst, burst and burst again to catch everything you needed to. And it makes more sense, completely, to use that cast, burst strategy to leave the Corrosive damage and procs ticking constantly on the enemies further away, which you can now do because of Lash on Primary weapons also popping Spores at range, so that as they're approaching, maybe sighting in on Molt instead of you, they're getting steadily more and more vulnerable to your attacks, you're adding DPS beyond what a Viral proc could do alone.

I genuinely think that spreading Spores around with Primary or Secondary fire, then drawing enemies in with Molt and then hitting them with Miasma will be far-and-away a more devastating combo than anything possible with the current Saryn.

With the one, single exception of that low-level strategy of Molt, Spore the Molt, burst the Molt to put Spores on everything in range with a Toxin proc on top.

I don't know that Saryn will be quite as good at those lower-level Defense runs as she is now, but that was specifically the strategy they wanted to fix, so there's no point in crying about it.

[BeeWhyOhBee]

well, alot of you are whining about frames being OP or too weak or too useless. They read it and tallied which one is which (or whatever system they have) 

there you go. 

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb MickThejaguar:

......what? Currently molt is how everyone spreads their spores around and the augments for both abilities are good for melee builds. 

Good but not great. Molt doesn't really protect you from bullets when active..it's a mere escape tool what's against the concept of melee in the first place and lash has so little effect on her that it's nothing but a waste of energy most of the time.

[xaanos]

I just watched the primetime and spore range with stretch installed seem to be like five meters.

 

If that happen, Saryn is dead. She have to have range or she simply don't work.

[Birdframe_Prime]

51 minutes ago, xaanos said:

I just watched the primetime and spore range with stretch installed seem to be like five meters.

I just watched this back to confirm, starting at the 21:50 mark they Spore a single enemy through a doorway, then kill that enemy and proc a single enemy to the left.

Starts in the Spoiler below at the point I mean.

Spoiler

 

That enemy on the left is around 16-18m away.

Further on, at 23:30 they kill a single Crewman and you see Spore ticks pop up on enemies that are around the corner out of line of sight, easily more than 20m away.

I can screenshot it for you if you don't want to actually scan the video again.

The range is still the same, it even still goes through walls.

Stop panicking.

Edited May 11, 2018 by Thaylien

[TwilitAngel]

Why Saryn? Every frame eventually needs another look at, even reworked ones. It's the same as League of Legends. Look at how many Ryze reworks they've done. 

Any change is usually good. We get so used to the way we one trick pony a frame to do one thing. I played back when Miasma was a press 4 to win nuke, so yeah... these changes are nice. Even the first initial change was nice. Only bad changes are when they change something to be the way something else used to be. Mainly talking about Resonating Quake change. That really needs another look at how it works. While I like this Saryn change, they need to backtrack to fix that augment for Banshee. They reverted her to old Saryn state spam 4 to win. While I do abuse it, not that often because it's not that fun and sometimes causes people to leave party. It's that issue Pablo mentioned about not even looking at the enemy. Banshee has that. You could argue it doesn't scale or whatever, but the fact a player can jump into a mission with her and stay in one spot mindlessly spamming 4 to win is an issue. It's no longer an afk issue, but now it's another one.

[den2k]

2 hours ago, NoLazyShadow said:

DE could use it with chanelling..if they not gonna remove it

Are you a psychic? 1h 20 minutes later Reb posts the stated Melee review overhaul... without channeling.

[Birdframe_Prime]

1 hour ago, den2k said:

Are you a psychic? 1h 20 minutes later Reb posts the stated Melee review overhaul... without channeling.

Actually, Channelling will still exist, they're testing it on the Block as a means of negating and reflecting damage (because that's what a Channelling Block does currently, buffs your damage reduction and reflects damage back) but on a much better scale. So with Block possibly costing energy by default, but as a result negating all damage? Yeah, I could see that being a thing.

Especially since a lot of people use Zenurik, and with the melee channelling cost reduction, this could be a fantastic way to deal with incoming damage for squishier caster frames.

[Blade_Wolf_16]

Il y a 12 heures, MickThejaguar a dit :

......what? Currently molt is how everyone spreads their spores around and the augments for both abilities are good for melee builds. 

Being a spam target doesn't mean it's "viable", especialy when the said spam is one of the main reason why they removed the synergy. The damage is bad, the hp is meh, it has limited duration, etc. The Molt Augment might be a decent heal, but it's far from Oberon's, Trin's, Nidus', Inaros', etc. and not reliable enough if the decoy is destroyed within a sec and enemies start shooting you again. 

---------------------------------

Basically, it's a nerf for spammers, but a buff for real Saryn players who intend to use the frame and her kit, and not just one lazy gimmick. 

Yes there are many other Warframes that deserves a rework of some sort, maybe a couple more than others, but since you can't force ideas to reveal themselves in order of importance, DE worked on what they could, aka Saryn. Nobody said that they weren't working on other frames' kit atm while Saryn's revisit is getting polished. 

[BL4CKN0ISE]

22 hours ago, MickThejaguar said:

Out of all of the warframes in the game in need of a rework/update, why in Baro's name did you decide that Saryn was the most in need of an update? Saryn currently has a fully functioning kit with no real useless abilities, and there's a few builds for her that can make use of all of her components. That being said, there are several frames in this game with only one or two viable abilities that lead them to having only a couple (at best) usable builds. So why does Saryn receive priority for a rework when there are warframes with severely worse kits?

It seems like it makes no sense, but it actually makes the most sense. Your problem is you're focusing too much on "need". Why would Saryn get a rework before a another frame? Because it's simply easier to think of ideas for a frame like Saryn and it's easier to implement those ideas. 

A frame that's in need of a rework/update is like renovating a house, or maybe even demolishing and then rebuilding it. Saryn's update is more like painting the walls a different color. 

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

The original rework for her left many things unfinished, or thats how it felt, i would say this is just finishing that work from a few years ago...

[AbstractLemons]

Im excited for this rework. I'm considering the possobilty of being able to run a different aura mod on her other than CP and ES we have zenurik for energy and now that she is gettong inate corrosive procs she may not CP as much.

 

Also condition overload melee will be getting a huge buff on her, toxic lash will be doing double for nnelee on top of now being able to rather easily apply 3 status effects within her kit alone instwad od the cuurent 2 so that is an easy 180% boost from condition overload.

Melee saryn is going to hit like a freight train, and they are also adressing molt finally, and easing up on her squishyness so melee doesnt seem as suicidal.

Very exciting changes for the dot debuffer queen.

 

[NoLazyShadow]

6 часов назад, den2k сказал:

Are you a psychic? 1h 20 minutes later Reb posts the stated Melee review overhaul... without channeling.

I saw it on Dewsteam and damm it was soo gooood. But it means Valkyr got new problem coming up..i even create topic about that

[VampirePirate]

On 2018-05-11 at 7:43 AM, MickThejaguar said:

Out of all of the warframes in the game in need of a rework/update, why in Baro's name did you decide that Saryn was the most in need of an update? Saryn currently has a fully functioning kit with no real useless abilities, and there's a few builds for her that can make use of all of her components. That being said, there are several frames in this game with only one or two viable abilities that lead them to having only a couple (at best) usable builds. So why does Saryn receive priority for a rework when there are warframes with severely worse kits?

So I finally was able to review the video where Pablo explained his reasons.  I honestly don't think that Saryn was considered a priority.  I think Pablo simply decided to correct what he thought were mistakes he made with Saryn and that was all there was to it.  As far as having a useful kit or not, I think that the way she is now for the rework was much needed.  Saryn used to be one of the warframes I would use often for hard-farming endeavors in the past, and after the changes, I just could not get into her much anymore.  I think that with these new changes, she will fit her role better with a bit of something extra.  The two concerns I have is how this new rework will affect everyone's playstyle in positive and negative ways, and how this rework may lead to a much needed Ember rework (with scaling considered).  I actually hope Pablo will be the guy to have a look at the other warframes, especially because it sounds like he actually plays the game and understands it from a player's point of view as a developer.  I will always welcome and appreciate that.

[(XBOX)Sheady]

On 2018-05-10 at 8:12 PM, (PS4)godlysparta said:

Ember isn’t very useful anymore. Her Damage should scale like Saryn. However, people will then complain that she’s too OP and then she’ll get nerfed again. But they Saryn, a frame that does way better than Ember, gets a buff... Balderdash!

Its kinda a buff nerf thing like chroma's "rework" (i cant use any heavier air quotes,its just not possible). Her spores will be able to scale now, however they changed the status effect to corrosive which is good against grineer and can no longer be put on molt which harms the farming aspect somewhat. Molt got a buff albeit not a very potent one. they should have made her augment intrinsic and changed the mod to give the molt an AI similarly to equinox's augment. Her 3 got a very good buff and her 4 also got a good buff. All in all this is either going to be a hit or miss. And im right with you in that Ember got hit way too hard but DE wont reverse any changes sadly. 

Edited May 12, 2018 by (XB1)Sheady
Typo

[(XBOX)Onyx Schnee]

On 2018-05-10 at 4:08 PM, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

Weeb

b-but, DE is based in canada, and thus saryn is canadian....