Saryn revisited master of toxins - control the damage yourself.

[IfritKajiTora]

SARYN - still should be the master of toxins, so she should be able to use all toxin type status and damage (Toxin, Gas, Viral and Corrosive).

1.SPORES:
-each Spore have 30% chance to inflict corrosive status per second.
-Spores don't boost their damage by them self.
-Spores damage can be boosted by applying to them toxins and gas damage type (damage applied from guns are reduced by 90% [or even more, need tests]).
-Spore duration 45 seconds, so you can't boost spores infinitely. (duration affected by power duration)
-After duration ends, spores detonate dealing 10x damage they have gathered from toxins and gas.

2.MOLT:
-Molt when detonated deals gas damage and have 100% chance to inflict gas status, that add to spores.
 

3.TOXIC LASH:
-Add toxin damage to weapons that adds to spores.

4.MIASMA:
-100% chance to inflict viral status on enemies.
-Detonates all spores after applying viral status, dealing 10x damage of spores.
-Deals 2x and 3x more damage on every enemy affected by gas and toxin status, boosting SPORES damage too
                                     one status (gas or toxin)  = 2x Miasma damage+20x spores damage 
                                     two status (gas and toxin) = 3x Miasma damage+30x spores damage

How this will work all together:
-Saryn now get benefits from Power duration. If you want to build her damage longer and stronger you need duration to keep spores longer.
-You can boost spores damage by using Molt and Toxic Lash.
-In the duration of spores you need to inflict the gas and toxin damage as fast as possible to build into the spores a massive damage.
-To make the most of damage/DPS you need to build your spores damage and then cast Miasma when spores duration is ending, making the build damage
-If players don't control situation and forget about spores duration, they will detonate inflicting 10x damage.
-If player control the situation, player will use Miasma before spores duration ends to double or even triple the gathered damage in spores.

Player need to work for the dps/damage he makes.

Edited May 17, 2018 by IfritKajiTora

[Kyryo]

There is already an awesome Saryn rework that has already been shown and proven to be amazingly near perfection. If you want to destroy all their work, at least wait them to release the rework and give it a month or two of testing.

[IfritKajiTora]

21 minutes ago, Kyryo said:

There is already an awesome Saryn rework that has already been shown and proven to be amazingly near perfection

Where?

You mean that one with automatically building spores to the ridiculous OP damage like 5k damage per second x3 for each spore on enemy that eats armor quickly, making Miasma, Molt and Toxic lash not needed to use them because spores will do all the work, while player is AFK, that was showed on the last "prime time"?

8 min 0 sec

"You can detonate the spores to make giant damage", it's only 6x damage they do per second, why not just wait 6 more seconds and don't detonate them at all? it will make the same damage and won't reset spores, making them rise damage even more ridiculously.

Edited May 13, 2018 by IfritKajiTora

[Kyryo]

Yes, and you can't say anything about how good or bad it is if you have not even played it. 

For what we have seen, keeping the spores alive is not as easy as now, so we'll have a lot of situations where they stop infecting, breaking the chain.

Also, you can no longer cast them 200 times, once you have cast it 1 time, you have to wait for all the spores to finish before doing it again (looks like)

 

Once again, you can't judge something you have not tried yet.

 

bye

[IfritKajiTora]

3 minutes ago, Kyryo said:

Yes, and you can't say anything about how good or bad it is if you have not even played it. 

For what we have seen, keeping the spores alive is not as easy as now, so we'll have a lot of situations where they stop infecting, breaking the chain.

Also, you can no longer cast them 200 times, once you have cast it 1 time, you have to wait for all the spores to finish before doing it again (looks like)

 

Once again, you can't judge something you have not tried yet.

 

bye

Yes, I can it is clear to me it will be Overpowered, but you just need to wait for them to build the damage and to armor strip. You can go AFK

Not easy, makes the overextended even more must have than before, because spores will easily jump to another enemies.

casting them 200 times didn't had any sense. If you are using overextended build you just cast it once and done, you don't have to use 1 again, until someone will nuke the whole map, for example with equinox.

Ember was a bad idea with range, and everyone had right, it's bad. Many many times I saw something on gameplay and I know how it will be.

[Kyryo]

2 minutes ago, IfritKajiTora said:

I know how it will be.

yeah sure. ahaha

[Wyrmius_Prime]

8 minutes ago, IfritKajiTora said:

Yes, I can it is clear to me it will be Overpowered, but you just need to wait for them to build the damage and to armor strip. You can go AFK

Not easy, makes the overextended even more must have than before, because spores will easily jump to another enemies.

casting them 200 times didn't had any sense. If you are using overextended build you just cast it once and done, you don't have to use 1 again, until someone will nuke the whole map, for example with equinox.

Ember was a bad idea with range, and everyone had right, it's bad. Many many times I saw something on gameplay and I know how it will be.

Saryn was supposed to be an amazing damage dealer since the beginning. That's what they said before the previous rework at least, but turned her into a debuffer instead. That damage will still fall off in late game. Toxin and Gas alone are borderline useless as well. The only reason Gas ever worked because it got melee stealth multipliers applied three times.

Edited May 13, 2018 by Wyrmius_Prime

[IfritKajiTora]

25 minutes ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

Saryn was supposed to be an amazing damage dealer since the beginning. That's what they said before the previous rework at least, but turned her into a debuffer instead. That damage will still fall off in late game. Toxin and Gas alone are borderline useless as well. The only reason Gas ever worked because it got melee stealth multipliers applied three times.

Well to make good damage you need to strip armor because of ridiculous armor scaling. In my opinion giving corrosive status to spores is a good idea but they said that it have 50% chance per second per spore, while every enemy can have 3 spores which is around 110% corrosive status per second, this is too much in my opinion. Not to mention spores will scale to insanely OP damage that miasma won't be able to surpass that damage, while miasma should be the most powerful after you apply toxins as it was before. But they still go for spores to do the most DPS, while it's just first ability that cost only 25 energy.

Cast spores wait for enemy armor to drop and spores will do good dps per second while casting miasma will be a little pointless. Unless you want to put viral and there is a chance that everyone dies quicker and ends spores scaling. While not using Miasma will kill them later giving you time to spread more spores to new targets that have 100% health and that will going and going on new enemies with overextended builds.

Edited May 13, 2018 by IfritKajiTora

[Wyrmius_Prime]

1 hour ago, IfritKajiTora said:

Well to make good damage you need to strip armor because of ridiculous armor scaling. In my opinion giving corrosive status to spores is a good idea but they said that it have 50% chance per second per spore, while every enemy can have 3 spores which is around 110% corrosive status per second, this is too much in my opinion. Not to mention spores will scale to insanely OP damage that miasma won't be able to surpass that damage, while miasma should be the most powerful after you apply toxins as it was before. But they still go for spores to do the most DPS, while it's just first ability that cost only 25 energy.

Cast spores wait for enemy armor to drop and spores will do good dps per second while casting miasma will be a little pointless. Unless you want to put viral and there is a chance that everyone dies quicker and ends spores scaling. While not using Miasma will kill them later giving you time to spread more spores to new targets that have 100% health and that will going and going on new enemies with overextended builds.

110% per second isn't much. With a gun you would have killed an enemy way before those procs would have actually done anything. The first 5 or so procs do barely anything on high armored enemies.

 

And there is always corrosive projection stacking and spores wont compete with that at all.

Edited May 13, 2018 by Wyrmius_Prime

[IfritKajiTora]

1 hour ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

110% per second isn't much. With a gun you would have killed an enemy way before those procs would have actually done anything. The first 5 or so procs do barely anything on high armored enemies.

 

And there is always corrosive projection stacking and spores wont compete with that at all.

8 corrosive status, removes armor to around 10%. Next 8 corrosive status to around 1%.

For example enemy have 5k armor, and after 8 corrosive status he have only around 500 armor.

So you just cast spores attack once and armor will be reduced almost to 0 in 16 seconds.

I know there are more stuff that can reduce armor but that's pretty quick in my opinion.

[Nykerios]

1 hour ago, IfritKajiTora said:

I know there are more stuff that can reduce armor but that's pretty quick in my opinion.

My Pox strips armor in a second or two, 16 would take way too long.

[Wyrmius_Prime]

3 hours ago, IfritKajiTora said:

8 corrosive status, removes armor to around 10%. Next 8 corrosive status to around 1%.

For example enemy have 5k armor, and after 8 corrosive status he have only around 500 armor.

So you just cast spores attack once and armor will be reduced almost to 0 in 16 seconds.

I know there are more stuff that can reduce armor but that's pretty quick in my opinion.

500 armor is still 40% damage reduction, which is huge. Doing that in 8 seconds is really slow armor stripping. It definitely isn't OP, because enemies even without any armor reduction will be dead when shot with a good gun long before spores tick it down to 0.

Edited May 13, 2018 by Wyrmius_Prime

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

Spore performance will be iffy because it's reliant on enemy density and spawns.  If the damage they out put sticks spores will suffocate themselves because they will kill faster than the enemies can spawn for them to spread to.  Spores and how they work are my only issue with the current rework in progress.

Molt is nothing but better now.  Miasma might need an energy cast reduction.  100 energy for a viral proc that's 15m at base isn't really worth the cost imo.  Especially since it's lost it's utility as a spammable cc thing.  Other than that miasma is fine with the new changes.  And toxic lash is borderline broken now if it releases as it's been shown currently.  A forced toxin proc (which is basically a second slash proc that doesn't ignore armor) on every bullet you fire is insane.  and armor won't be an issue with spores.

Saryn if released like this will be basically overkill.  But this is pablo who made nidus.  and nidus is overkill as well.  So it's really not surprising.  imo it's better for a rework or new frame to come out powerful and to be tuned down a little than to release an underperforming rework/frame and have it buffed up a little.

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

8 hours ago, IfritKajiTora said:

Where?

You mean that one with automatically building spores to the ridiculous OP damage like 5k damage per second x3 for each spore on enemy that eats armor quickly, making Miasma, Molt and Toxic lash not needed to use them because spores will do all the work, while player is AFK, that was showed on the last "prime time"?

8 min 0 sec

"You can detonate the spores to make giant damage", it's only 6x damage they do per second, why not just wait 6 more seconds and don't detonate them at all? it will make the same damage and won't reset spores, making them rise damage even more ridiculously.

That was in the Simulacrum. When they were in an actual level, it was far less effective because most enemies died before the damage could build up very far, let alone armor strip them, and by the time you would actually have enemies that could survive the scaling damage long enough to get high damage numbers, you would be a tiny splat on the floor because they can one-shot you.

This new Saryn looks a lot like how Nidus scales in power, but without his survivability. She can't keep spores going in solo runs because there aren't enough enemies, and she can't keep it going in group runs because her allies will be killing things before she can start building damage, and whenever their damage falls off she won't be able to survive.

The only scenario I can see that has her dealing massive amounts of damage to enemies is a survival with 3 leeches and one Saryn, where the leeches are just there to give her the enemy density she needs, and to pick her up/activate life support with operators when needed.

However, I am still looking forward to the proposed rework, because a dedicated squad could make her very good (speed nova to increase enemy density, octavia to provide easy invisiblity (though an ivara would work too), and a rhino to increase damage and provide CC in emergencies).

Edited May 13, 2018 by -AoN-CanoLathra-