Melee: Present and Future goals!

[injustible]

1 hour ago, MirageKnight said:

You cited a total of two abilities to discredit the ability to deflect incoming fire using melee weapons...Really?

That's akin to saying "Why have melee weapons when Atlas has Landslide? Just use him if you want to melee."

Also, when was the last time that your cited abilities stopped knockdowns or allowed Finishers? Because blocking does that.

Not gonna list an entire plethora of abilities that do what Block does 10x better.
Also, mods like Handspring/Constitution work a lot better than Block in terms of negating knockdowns. Nice try though, can't wait to hear what other useful features Block has.

[DiabolusUrsus]

33 minutes ago, injustible said:

Not gonna list an entire plethora of abilities that do what Block does 10x better.

Except they're not really mutually exclusive. You can block while affected by Shatter Shield. You can block while Elemental Ward is active. You can block while aim-gliding. You don't really sacrifice any mobility to block, and there are times when the knockdown protection is preferable to immediate DPS.

33 minutes ago, injustible said:

Also, mods like Handspring/Constitution work a lot better than Block in terms of negating knockdowns.

Handspring, sure, but Constitution? Nah. Block prevents knockdown 100% of the time with the only caveat being that you need to actually be using melee mode whereas Constitution works regardless of weapon. Do you use melee much? Because if you're running up to kill a Bombard or other heavy unit and you can't already 1-shot it, it is much more expedient to block their ground-pound (or incoming Ogris missiles) than to refuse to press RMB.

33 minutes ago, injustible said:

Nice try though, can't wait to hear what other useful features Block has.

Why does it need more useful features? Blocking knockdowns is already very useful without even considering the extra damage reduction. The biggest issues with block were that while 100% damage reduction was useful while channeling, it drained way too much energy for it to be worth it next to other defensive powers. With the upcoming changes the reduction will no longer cost energy, so there's no way to really construe that as a bad thing. The bullet reflection will be kinda pointless, sure, but it's not a negative either.

Block doesn't have to replace powers with similar effects. It provides options to Warframes who DON'T have those powers and can supplement the ones who do. If your playstyle doesn't call for it... don't use it. But it's hardly useless as you are suggesting.

[LSG501]

On 2018-05-12 at 10:15 PM, Sukiadoramu said:

There is a concern I have with removing hitting enemies through walls. The game can have it's moments where it spawns enemies in walls, or unreachable areas (have had a lot of those moments) in which case if you don't have aoe abilities/weapons mellee could help with taking care of those enemies. Also containers stuck behind doors that are unobtainable.

I was just in game and realised basically the above, there are times when the ability to hit through walls is kind of needed.  So can we maybe have the complete removal changed to greatly reduced range on walls, doesn't need to be massive, just enough to reach stuff if it spawns inside the environment and the likes. 

 

Mind you I did also think how annoying lack of 'punch through' on melee will be if you consider the tilesets and all the 'lumps and bumps' that they have, all the extra assets like 'the big boxes', even guard rails could be an issue depending on how DE defines what we can and can't hit through.  We could end up needing to run half way round a room to get to that 'one enemy' that's decided to run and hide the other side of a box..... not to mention visually we'll still be able to clip through a wall in all likelihood if we get too close.

Now don't get me wrong, I don't think spin to win through walls should be here either but I think taking away the ability to hit through stuff completely might be going a little overboard.

[iNew_Vexx]

Niceeee. But i have one ideia, what about melee combo add more combo counters? 

Like if you complete some difficult combo, that can add x2 or x3 combo counters.

That way u reward players for conplete the full combo

[Telogor]

Please bind slam attacks to the heavy melee button and let me use the regular melee for aerial melee attacks, even when looking downward.  Also, please bring back the velocity of directional air melee.  Most of the time, the best way to close the gap on a group of enemies is to jump forward and engage with an aerial melee attack, but this was crippled with the removal of directional air melee.  Now, there's no good way to quickly engage a new group of enemies.  Directional slam attacks could work, but there's a large recovery time, and many melee weapons push enemies away with their slam attacks.

Additionally, for the combo system, make it a branching combo like in Warriors games.  Starting off the combo with light attacks and changing it based on when you switch to heavy attacks is the most fluent, intuitive melee system I've ever used.  It would work amazingly well for Warframe.

 

[Snake]

Now every time I look at my Riven's and my Builds for my Melee for combo duration and range I feel a deep sense of resentment and frustration - All the hard work to get the most out of my melee weapons to be flushed down the space toilet. The key here that I think everyone is missing from what DE is purposing is No more scaling damage for your normal attacks. Why would I ever what to use my combo multiplayer on a single target for one slow heavy attack? This make no since in the game where many enemy spawn and enemy Armor scales.

This current system of combo multiplayer damage scaling is the funnest combat for me. Its hard to even bring my self to play now thinking how this is gonna look after the fact.

If anything - This proposal is very discouraging - I need to say something and I feel like DE has closed the book already on this.

Channeling stuff looks interesting - But that's about it.

Decreasing Range mods is terrible and not gonna do anything but make melee more of a chore then fun + How many here actually think Melee though walls Nerf will actuality work correctly? Any obstruction you hit - be it to the left or right will more than likely make it is so you will never hit whats in front of you.

I'm trying to be positive about it and maybe DE will do this right but the more I go back and read the post and re-watch the stream the more discouraging this feels.

 

Please ease this concern - I love this Game - Its all I play as pathetic as it sounds.

 

[Cibyllae]

Crit:

Blood Rush - Untouched for Now - Neutral

Crit Chance on Slide Attack - Untouched for now - Neutral

Blood Rush Stacking with Combo Multiplier - Untouched for Now - Neutral

 

Range:

Range Mods - Nerf

Base Range - Buff

 

Damage

Combo Multiplier Damage only scales with heavy attacks now - Nerf

"Substantial" Damage increases for all melees across the board - Buff

 

Misc

Attacks no longer go through walls - Nerf

"Better Combos, Way Faster" allowing Blood Rush to reach higher combo multipliers which means more crit damage - Buff

 

Someone please explain how these changes put forth so far spell impending doom for the spin meta

[lxMattAranxl]

On 2018-05-11 at 3:09 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

You'll be able to dual wield any one-handed weapon with any secondary weapon - as shown many moons ago on a Devstream!

If this is true, I pray it works with Nikanas as well! 😄

[hooperinius]

Like I said a few pages ago we will have to wait and see. For example if they increase weapon damage by 50% that is still quite a nerf compare to a 2-3x combo. I also wonder how heavy attacks will work and if they will make some melee weapons obsolete. 

[Cibyllae]

3 minutes ago, hooperinius said:

Like I said a few pages ago we will have to wait and see. For example if they increase weapon damage by 50% that is still quite a nerf compare to a 2-3x combo. I also wonder how heavy attacks will work and if they will make some melee weapons obsolete. 

I guess that's my point. Everyone *The opposite sides of the camps* think the numbers are going to go the way they want them to. And I have a suspicion that the numbers are going to go the way the devs want them too, and then we're going to have apples upon apples of people in need of burn heals who are going to post on the forums and hate on the devs.

[injustible]

18 minutes ago, Cibyllae said:

I guess that's my point. Everyone *The opposite sides of the camps* think the numbers are going to go the way they want them to. And I have a suspicion that the numbers are going to go the way the devs want them too, and then we're going to have apples upon apples of people in need of burn heals who are going to post on the forums and hate on the devs.

The problem is the nerf is just a flat damage nerf. For example - if your weapon's damage is 100, before the proposed nerf a combo multi of x3 would give you 300 (without any mods bla bla, talking bout just a normal weapon with no mods and a combo multi of x3). With the new one, while sure you can still get your X/Y/Blood Rush, whatever mods on, this x3 multi will not apply to normal attacks - so normal attacks will deal 100 even at x999 multi. This multi will only apply to 1 single attack and it will be lost after, rendering the entire process tedious. It's simple, really, all you will be forced to do is hit 10 times, then go into a 5 second animation lock to heavy attack 1 mob, then spend another 10 minutes to get your multi back for your next single big attack. In a wave shooter game. Wave is the keyword.

The builds that benefit from it are only the raw damage builds, but these became obsolete because they scale really poorly. The only person who might benefit from this is the low MR1 rookie that has a Cronus and will get a lets say 50% more base damage on it (depends on the increase that they will implement, but just for example). Everyone else? Back to spamming Warframe abilities/using the biggest gun possible.

[(XBOX)Master Tutak]

Hola,

Llevo en Warframe más de 500 días y sólo combato a melé, excepto cuando es "obligatorio" utilizar primarias o secundarias en ciertas misiones, o para exterminar jefes, ya que me parece muy divertido acercarme a los enemigos y luchar contra ellos "cara a cara" ... Por cierto, éste comentario es para decir que NO me parece nada bien que estén pensando en cambiar el combate a melé ...

Vayamos por partes ...

Estoy de acuerdo con eso de cambiar que algunas armas melé atraviesen paredes y obstáculos, ya que es algo comprensible (siempre y cuando no se tenga en cuenta el hecho de que algunas armas, como por ejemplo la Zenith, http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Zenith es capaz de atravesar casi cualquier cosa, "infinite Punch Through")

También estoy de acuerdo con eso de que el alcance del arma a melé pueda acabar con enemigos a distancias increíbles, a decenas de metros, como sucede con los nuevos mods agrietados que vuelven "mágicas" a las armas melé (eso no es culpa nuestra, ¿verdad?)

Por otro lado ...

Lo que no me parece bien es que cambien lo del multiplicador de combo, y tampoco me parece bien lo del bloqueador que consume energía ... Muchos mods actuales serán poco menos que inútiles, y muchos son Prime, lo que significa que nos ha costado mucha paciencia y tiempo conseguirlos ...

Tampoco estoy de acuerdo con eso de tener que andar dando saltos enormes para dar golpes fuertes contra el suelo, como si eso fuera posible ...En la mayoría de misiones,  el techo está sobre nuestras cabezas, y estamos rodeados de enemigos (supervivencia de Infectados, por ejemplo) donde no podemos andar dando saltos porque al caer, nos matan los enemigos de alrededor (ni qué decir tiene si estamos rodeados de Eximus)

Por cierto, en los más de 500 días que llevo jugando, casi nunca (por no decir nunca) he visto a alguien dar esos saltos y caer para golpear el suelo, es una acción inútil que no lleva a nada, por muy fuerte que sea el golpe y que te hace perder el tiempo y al caer, lo más probable es que estés rodeado de enemigos que acabarán contigo inmediatamente ...

Otro cambio que no me parece bien es que tengamos que andar pulsando varios botones del mando de juego, ya que no todos somos lo suficientemente hábiles como para realizar esas combinaciones de botones casi imposibles y en la mayoría de ocasiones, poco útiles ...

Definitivamente, esa nueva actualización llamada Melee 3.0 no me parece adecuada, ya que nosotros (la mayoría de jugadores) no la hemos solicitado, ni tampoco la queremos ... Si algo funciona bien, ¿para qué cambiarlo? ...

Por favor, dejen las armas melé como están y no nos obliguen a jugar de forma diferente, gracias.

Master Tutak

 

[(PSN)Dyin-Kyo]

Not sure how i'll feel about losing my blood rush crits every heavy attack. I say keep the old combo counter just for blood rush and weeping wounds and use the new combo counter for heavy attacks. Im pretty sure resetting the counter every combo would get annoying for people using blood rush and it'll just result to people with condition overload using combos and blood rush users using only light attacks.

[Cibyllae]

1 hour ago, injustible said:

The problem is the nerf is just a flat damage nerf. For example - if your weapon's damage is 100, before the proposed nerf a combo multi of x3 would give you 300 (without any mods bla bla, talking bout just a normal weapon with no mods and a combo multi of x3). With the new one, while sure you can still get your X/Y/Blood Rush, whatever mods on, this x3 multi will not apply to normal attacks - so normal attacks will deal 100 even at x999 multi.

You're forgetting about the incoming "Substantial" damage increases. I only put in quotes because that was Scott's word for it.

1 hour ago, Cibyllae said:

Damage

Combo Multiplier Damage only scales with heavy attacks now - Nerf

"Substantial" Damage increases for all melees across the board - Buff

Even with the combo multiplier damage gone on light attacks, which amounts to an average 2.5x damage, the real damage is coming from blood rush and that is remained unchanged.

1 hour ago, Cibyllae said:

Crit:

Blood Rush - Untouched for Now - Neutral

Crit Chance on Slide Attack - Untouched for now - Neutral

Blood Rush Stacking with Combo Multiplier - Untouched for Now - Neutral

Do you understand how Critical Chance works beyond 100%?  You are able to reach x100 damage multipliers just with a 5x combo counter, with the right builds that have blood rush + critical chance on slide attack combo. Even if they only double the base damage with the "Substantial" damage buff, you're able to reach "Better combos, way faster" Rebecca's words) making blood lust even more potent. You skim over Blood Rush and assume a x999 multi. But a x999 multi is 999 x 165 multiplicative crit chance. 165 x 999 = 164,835% multiplicative crit chance. Finding a riven that gives you 75% crit chance on slide attack on a weapon with base 25% crit chance gives you a base crit chance of 100%. 100% x 164,835% = 100 x 1,6548.35 = 164,835% critical chance. Because this critical chance is above 100% it functions differently. When crit chance is above 100 your total crit multiplier is equal to your Crit Level x (Crit Multiplier -1) +1. Lets Assume a base crit multiplier of 2.0x. To calculate crit level the equation is TotalCrit/100. This number is rounded up to the one's place. Our total crit is 164,835. 164,835/100 = 1648.35 rounded to the ones place is 1649. That is your crit level.

Assuming parentheses placement

TotalCritMult = (CritLevel x (CritMult - 1)) +1

TotalCritMult = (1649 x (2 - 1)) +1

TotalCritMult = (1649 x (1)) +1

TotalCritMult = 1650x

I understand that x999 is unreachable and was simply for example purposes. So I hope that you understand that this example which I have done here is merely for example purposes, showing that Blood Lust is much more responsible for the damage multiplication you are seeing rather than the combo multiplier.  Both together are ludicrous and why you are seeing such high damage numbers on slide attacks as slide attacks are the only way to get these high damage numbers, hence the slide meta. You need to give Blood Lust more credit.

EDIT: Having the damage multiplier of the combo counter only apply to heavy attacks isn't enough to make the slide meta go away

[XzWasPzX]

Justo ahora, (XB1)Master Tutak dijo:

Hola,

Llevo en Warframe más de 500 días y sólo combato a melé, excepto cuando es "obligatorio" utilizar primarias o secundarias en ciertas misiones, o para exterminar jefes, ya que me parece muy divertido acercarme a los enemigos y luchar contra ellos "cara a cara" ... Por cierto, éste comentario es para decir que NO me parece nada bien que estén pensando en cambiar el combate a melé ...

Vayamos por partes ...

Estoy de acuerdo con eso de cambiar que algunas armas melé atraviesen paredes y obstáculos, ya que es algo comprensible (siempre y cuando no se tenga en cuenta el hecho de que algunas armas, como por ejemplo la Zenith, http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Zenith es capaz de atravesar casi cualquier cosa, "infinite Punch Through")

También estoy de acuerdo con eso de que el alcance del arma a melé pueda acabar con enemigos a distancias increíbles, a decenas de metros, como sucede con los nuevos mods agrietados que vuelven "mágicas" a las armas melé (eso no es culpa nuestra, ¿verdad?)

Por otro lado ...

Lo que no me parece bien es que cambien lo del multiplicador de combo, y tampoco me parece bien lo del bloqueador que consume energía ... Muchos mods actuales serán poco menos que inútiles, y muchos son Prime, lo que significa que nos ha costado mucha paciencia y tiempo conseguirlos ...

Tampoco estoy de acuerdo con eso de tener que andar dando saltos enormes para dar golpes fuertes contra el suelo, como si eso fuera posible ...En la mayoría de misiones,  el techo está sobre nuestras cabezas, y estamos rodeados de enemigos (supervivencia de Infectados, por ejemplo) donde no podemos andar dando saltos porque al caer, nos matan los enemigos de alrededor (ni qué decir tiene si estamos rodeados de Eximus)

Por cierto, en los más de 500 días que llevo jugando, casi nunca (por no decir nunca) he visto a alguien dar esos saltos y caer para golpear el suelo, es una acción inútil que no lleva a nada, por muy fuerte que sea el golpe y que te hace perder el tiempo y al caer, lo más probable es que estés rodeado de enemigos que acabarán contigo inmediatamente ...

Otro cambio que no me parece bien es que tengamos que andar pulsando varios botones del mando de juego, ya que no todos somos lo suficientemente hábiles como para realizar esas combinaciones de botones casi imposibles y en la mayoría de ocasiones, poco útiles ...

Definitivamente, esa nueva actualización llamada Melee 3.0 no me parece adecuada, ya que nosotros (la mayoría de jugadores) no la hemos solicitado, ni tampoco la queremos ... Si algo funciona bien, ¿para qué cambiarlo? ...

Por favor, dejen las armas melé como están y no nos obliguen a jugar de forma diferente, gracias.

Master Tutak

 

Por no hablar de Ataque Vital... ¿Que sería de la mayoría sin ese mod? Pasaríamos las misiones contando las veces que caemos al suelo.

[Darkvramp]

ok since you are changing groundslams, make them more unique with more than just damaging effects on weapons, there is a WHOLE new world of possibilities now if that melee slam is more unique, and has other uses other than for getting out of the air and damaging enemies. More unique slams and the like is what im sayin .

[Alecks2539]

An element I really, REALLY loved that you guys implemented was dual wielding. I was a bit bummed when all we got was glaive dual wielding, which was still awesome, but then a wave of silence on dual wielding. I am so happy you guys took this route with certain weapons, giving the single based weapons more time to shine than their dual counterparts. But now that this is coming to light, Will their possibly be any melee x sidearm combos (similar to the gunblades) that involve a mix of melee strikes and gunshots. If so, That would be sweet. But all of this is just wishful thinking. I am just grateful dual wielding is becoming universal to a lot of sidearms and melees.

Also, this might be a controversial question but when you say "any sidearm" does that mean ANY? Honestly, IMO this option should be limited really to one-handed sidearms because as much as I love a dual sidearm, the dual variants have kind of made a lot of the sing variants obsolete. Some of the one-handed side arms are useful don't get me wrong but overall I see more two-handed variants being used.

[injustible]

45 minutes ago, Cibyllae said:

-snip-

I know how the Crit Multiplier works, but while the damage comes from it, scaling off a larger number gives a larger number. Like I said, if you have a base of 100 damage, with 1650x multi or whatever equivalent you take, you will deal ~165,000. With a base damage of 99,900 (taking for example a combo counter of x999, obviously at a 1650x crit multi), that's 164,835,000 damage. Are you still sure that the Substatial damage comes from Crit Multiplier? A multiplier is a multiplier, and all multipliers affect damage "substantially". And you're also assuming that Blood Rush will remain entirely unchanged. What if it gets moved to affect Heavy attacks only, since the idea of Combo Counter now seems to be that you use it on Heavy Attacks? Because then it becomes completely obsolete for any other attack aside the one Heavy you do. Now, yes you might say - they will buff base damage! Question is - by how much, and by how much will they increase the speed at which you gain combo counter levels. We'll wait and see, but I prefer to take the pessimistic approach and say it'll bork the system, knowing how other "reworks" have gone.

[MirageKnight]

2 hours ago, injustible said:

Not gonna list an entire plethora of abilities that do what Block does 10x better.

Humor me. Otherwise your argument is nothing but empty words.

2 hours ago, injustible said:

Also, mods like Handspring/Constitution work a lot better than Block in terms of negating knockdowns.

*facepalm*

Two whole optional mods that have a percentage chance of allowing you to get up from a knockdown faster. They doesn't actually prevent you from being knocked down.

You're thinking of Sure Footed, which provides up to 60% chance of preventing / resisting knockdown. Fortitude and Power Drift provide bonuses to resisting knockdown...but that's...3 mods. As opposed to a standard ability you can easily use when your melee is equipped to do the same thing. Yes those mods help out when your melee isn't equipped...but again, that's 3 slots being used.

3 hours ago, injustible said:

Nice try though

Thanks! I felt pretty good about using a legitimate argument based on true premises and actual facts!

3 hours ago, injustible said:

can't wait to hear what other useful features Block has.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Melee_2.0#Blocking

Learning is half the battle, mate. Ignorance is not a good thing. Neither is being needlessly stubborn and sarcastic.

[(PSN)Anfffy]

The thing that makes melee so fun is building up the combo counter and doing more damage, I don't think this should be removed or made only for heavy attacks I think it should stay the same and if we choose to use up the built up combo counter on a heavy attack then that's a choice we have.

I don't want to be forced to use heavy attacks.

Not to fussed about the melee through walls cos I don't use spin to win I am disappointed about the range decrease though because I main melee and it's what makes the game fun.

It seems like the people that use malee properly are getting punished for the few that use exploits to cheese missions.

[Cibyllae]

22 minutes ago, injustible said:

Like I said, if you have a base of 100 damage, with 1650x multi or whatever equivalent you take, you will deal ~165,000. With a base damage of 300 (taking for example a combo counter of x3, obviously at a 1650x crit multi you'd be a lot higher), that's 495,000 damage. Are you still sure that the Substatial damage comes from Crit Multiplier?

What's more 3 x 100 or 1650 x 100?

22 minutes ago, injustible said:

while the damage comes from it, scaling off a larger number gives a larger number.

I already conceited that both together are what make slide attacks disgusting.

54 minutes ago, Cibyllae said:

So I hope that you understand that this example which I have done here is merely for example purposes, showing that Blood Lust is much more responsible for the damage multiplication you are seeing rather than the combo multiplier.  Both together are ludicrous and why you are seeing such high damage numbers on slide attacks as slide attacks are the only way to get these high damage numbers, hence the slide meta.

The point I was trying to make was

54 minutes ago, Cibyllae said:

Having the damage multiplier of the combo counter only apply to heavy attacks isn't enough to make the slide meta go away

Because

54 minutes ago, Cibyllae said:

Blood Lust is much more responsible for the damage multiplication you are seeing rather than the combo multiplier.

 

 

22 minutes ago, injustible said:

And you're also assuming that Blood Rush will remain entirely unchanged.

2 hours ago, Cibyllae said:

Crit:

Blood Rush - Untouched for Now - Neutral

Crit Chance on Slide Attack - Untouched for now - Neutral

Blood Rush Stacking with Combo Multiplier - Untouched for Now - Neutral

2 hours ago, Cibyllae said:

Someone please explain how these changes put forth so far spell impending doom for the spin meta

Please quote me where I said they are never going to bring changes to Blood Rush.

22 minutes ago, injustible said:

What if [Blood Rush] gets moved to affect Heavy attacks only, since the idea of Combo Counter now seems to be that you use it on Heavy Attacks? Because then it becomes completely obsolete for any other attack aside the one Heavy you do. Now, yes you might say - they will buff base damage! Question is - by how much, and by how much will they increase the speed at which you gain combo counter levels. We'll wait and see, but I prefer to take the pessimistic approach and say it'll bork the system, knowing how other "reworks" have gone.

Like I said in an earlier post buddy

1 hour ago, Cibyllae said:

I guess that's my point. Everyone *The opposite sides of the camps* think the numbers are going to go the way they want them to. And I have a suspicion that the numbers are going to go the way the devs want them too, and then we're going to have apples upon apples of people in need of burn heals who are going to post on the forums and hate on the devs.

Its the same thing everytime. People make assumptions about what the devs are going to do and then get their panties in a bunch when it doesn't go how they expected. I'm really trying to show people that Scott needs to change more if the slide meta is going to change go away. As the changes are right now the slide meta will not go away. And everyone who thinks that these changes ARE enough to make it go away do not understand why the slide meta is the way it is.

 

[ShogunGunshow]

23 hours ago, (PS4)Ragology said:

I wonder how this will affect the Sancti Magistar?( new loka syndicate weapon.)

Supposedly the charge attacks can heal things but it caps at a low number ( like 200 or something) unless you use channeling, where it can heal for thousands.

Better poke them, because this is the kind of thing that DE forgets about all the time whenever they make big changes like this.

[Vanillu]

On 2018-05-11 at 12:09 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Combo Counter minimum hits per tier adjusted significantly so higher tiers can be reached more quickly and easily. Combo Counter damage multiplier may apply to heavy attack only and all points are spent on attack.

Common criticism.

 

I would like to know the Developer feedback on this specific line of possible changes and how stat adjustments would compensate for this.

The main reason why combo is good in a horde-shooter is because it allows us to have damage scaling in those high level missions in order to compensate for high hp/high shield/high armor scaling, so I think it's a little forceful to make us use heavy melee when we are gonna be fighting dozens of enemies and in order to have the additional scaling of damage we need to use it on a melee attack (that is in fact a heavy attack), but not only that. When we use the heavy melee it spends the combo. Now I will have to build up all of my combo again. Literally every single frame that has low survivability will not only have a higher chance to get caught out from this, but now you would be completely obligated to use high survivability frames to even make use of your combo and then it's gone in one attack, then build it all up again from scratch with your 0 scaled light attack damage to then use a single heavy attack that is scaled. You get where I am going with this? This will slow down melee gameplay by 2-3x what it currently is just by making a small change like that.

I'd really like to know the actual Developer logic on how this is a good change, because unless u make stat adjustments that scale on the melees themselves, this is an actual hard nerf. 

[Ham_Grenabe]

If I need to be in melee mode to use it, learn new controls for it, and spend all of my combo counter points to use a heavy attack, it better be a one-hit kill for any non-boss enemy up through Sortie 3 levels. 

[CephalonCee]

Its probably already been voiced but my only real concern for it is how Heavy attacks will work, i love watching the combo counter tick up,who doesn't love an arbitrary value go up as you press a button, but the idea of heavy attacks completely deleting the combo counter doesn't come off as great to me, id love for it to be either put with a combo "charge bar" where the combo retains its current standpoint but heavy attacks will have a separate but linked to the combo system thing to charge and use them, or heavy attacks only use partial bits of the combo, ie, maybe with the combo meter multiplier having more linear tiers, instead of consuming the combo hits, it consumes a bit of the combo multiplier, IE you hav a 4.0x multiplier stored up, and use a heavy, it would bring it down to 3.5, it could then potentially allow heavy unloads for high priority enemies while you build up combo on trash mobs, things as the such