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Melee: Present and Future goals!


[DE]Rebecca

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Please DE, don't remove the combo multiplier from normal attacks. It literally took years for melee to become a viable option at very high level play. Please don't send it back to just being stiuationally useful in missions. Your game is entirely about breaking your characters limits and reaching obscene levels of awesomeness. Don't tone things down, keep toning the enemies up. Don't provide us challenge by removing our tools, but by giving us enemies capable of giving challenge to those methods. 

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On 2018-06-30 at 10:45 PM, TwoWolves said:

...what's a "Channeling block?" lol

Konami code? You mean we can finally use that up-down-up-down-left-right-left-right-A-B-Select-Start code?

Block + Channeling... well hard to explain i know 

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If finishers become a different button I'd like that to at least be optional - personally I use the prisma obex a lot - and that basically means I'm a flurry of punches until someone gets suplexed - it doesn't always make a difference to me who gets the finisher but I want them to happen on the fly in some situations because they make relatively quick work of even larger targets. I guess this all depends on how they rebalance all the melee weapons though. 

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Nice....um, i see no one seems to be addressing the fact that the “network connection loss” problem that is keeping a large amount of people from enjoying ANYTHING is not getting any attention. We can submit tickets and all were getting is “its your internet” in some form or way. Change the name of the update to 10 second frame....because thats all most of us are getting to play until the connection fails.

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Didn't read anything else, just wanna get this idea off my chest. (using 2 melee weps)

Replace "channeling button" to "attack with second melee weapon" (pressing once will switch to 2nd melee while also attacking with that 2nd melee wep) from here you will use that 2nd melee as usual with the rest of the controls. If you want to switch back, press the "attack with second melee weapon" button again. (make it spammable to keep alternating attacks between both melee weps)

Since dual wielding will be more common, have Primary and Secondary Melee weapons.

Secondary melee: these will be the one handed things that would also work with dual wielding

Primary melee: these will be the bigger, 2 handed melee's which require holstering your guns to use.

This will make melee more incorporated with the gun-play. But there is still a way to invest more in the melee side by holstering your guns and having access to TWO sets of melee weps. (in general, one "big" melee, one "small" melee) I think this will make melee much more fun as you can bring two sets of mods/elemental builds that can be accessed faster compared to the two guns you carry. but also, after dual wielding is expanded upon, still having a good reason to go FULL melee. (I'm probably in the minority, but as fas as I can tell, quick melee is still by far good enough to not need to use combos, yes I have done 1hr+ Mot, kuva survival, ect. so I'm not just talking star chart...)

 

Yes, I know it's probably too late to do this, but I keep thinking about it so at least now I can say "I tried." Plus...it's a pretty badass idea imo 😛

(Sorry if I posted in the wrong place or broke any rules)

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I'm probably wa~y to late, but whatever:

I think that adding "modes" (somewhat inspired by the game with wrong name "DmC: Devil may Cry").
Namely:

  • an "Offensive" mode (holding "channeling") focused on quickly getting rid of that one more threatening enemy (or annoying) maybe with some gapclosers
  • a "Defensive" mode (holding "block") focused on not getting damaged/CC'ed (you know, blocking, not being our usual mass-murdering machines), maybe with some utility like forced procs/staggers/disarms/knockdowns/etc to help with getting out of sticky situations
  • a mode dedicated to doing what we do most of the time - mowing down enemies, with it being the "default" mode
  • Devil Trigger Channeling Mode, triggered by pressing block&channel together, works simillarily to it's current appearance but drains Operator's energy(we don't use that resource at all) instead of Warframe's

If each stance had an "infinite"/"loopable" (aka spam-e) combo per mode (that would reflect the mode in which the user is now) with a "special"/"heavy" attack binded to alt-fire (it is a unique binding on controllers by default, isn't it?) it would make melee3.0 like parkour2.0 smooth and intuitive.
Should such a thing happen, then slam attack could be (defensive+e) in midair, our "flying swallow" (offensive+e) in mid air and e in mid air would just swing our weapon without affecting our flight (almost) at all.

Could I ask for being able to make a dodge-attacks? (attacks performed by pressing melee mid-roll) people have been asking for it for a while now...

 

With that out of the way:
What i like about the 3.0:

  • Additional melee attack input
  • Simplification and unification of combos
  • revisiting stances
  • aimed slam attacks

What I'm conflicted about:

  • Removal of channeling
  • Changes to ComboCounter
  • Channeling looked nice...

What I'm worried about:

  • My Life(Saving) Strike has an existential crisis
  • "normal" attacks not scaling with ComboCounter
  • Heavy Attack eating away *all* combo counter
  • My jumping-in-the-midst-of-enemies-with-high-enough-crit-chance-to-mow-down-everything playstyle is in danger
  • while hitting enemies in another room though walls is ridiculous indeed, Being unable to hit through any object might be problematic...

As many people before me I ask:
What about Life Strike, Blood Rush, Weeping Wounds and such?
Is removing scaling on normal attacks really necessary? Because that would require at least tripling their base damage, as that is the number the Combo Counter is most of the time now, with it reaching up to 4x at times (mostly endless missions in my case)

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On 2018-05-11 at 12:09 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Primary and Secondary weapons have all gotten pretty painless overhauls this year. Melee's turn is coming.

Stug needs some mechanic changes. Went from semi-auto with Charge Hold to Full Auto with Charge Alt-fire. The Full Auto stacks to the glob cap faster than the Charge Alt-fire, so charge is redundant. 

Also adding a new glob resets explosion delay/timer.

This weapon did not see any changes with Primary and Secondary overhaul.

Acrid was/is fine. So no need for adjustments.

 

In regards to melee :

Will wall attacks be looked at?

Currently Wall-attacks are the most difficult and least practical aspect of melee.

Other than Valkyr, Warframes need to be stationary on a Wall to perform a Wall-attack.

This Wall-attack will have an animation lock and disappointing lunge-range from the wall.

*Valkyr can perform Wall-attacks by attacking with melee during the initial Ripline Pull momentum

It would be nice if Wall-attacks had a lock-in lunge similar to Archwing Melee combat.

-More rewarding for Wall-Latch setup to melee attack 

Compared to current Wall attacks which leave you vulnerable for the Wall-Latch setup and end with a lack luster Wall-attack that most likely hits no targets in real mission use.(Line Of Sight makes it harder to hit Grineers that put up an inflatable Blunt as you were perfroming Wall-attack.)

 

Look forward to some amazing melee changes.

 

(Although I wonder if a tiered or scaling, Combo count multiplier would be better to balance short reach melee vs longer reach weapons.

Long reach attacks consume Combo count damage Multiplier on single heavy attack and with Fist weapons the combo damage Multiplier could persist for 3secs after the Heavy attack was performed.)

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I'm not defending killing through walls, but enemies can get you through walls. Eximus can drain you, one pixel of Nullifier bubble one floor below can ruin your day. Will you fix this too?

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8 hours ago, V0LK said:

I'm not defending killing through walls, but enemies can get you through walls. Eximus can drain you, one pixel of Nullifier bubble one floor below can ruin your day. Will you fix this too?

Personally, I have encountered a Nullifier (corrupted one though) not dispelling my buffs when he was one platform above me, not sure if being Obi-wan'd mattered there.

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Maybe this shouln't  be done as an standalone thing. What I mean is that it's fine to do a melee rework but the problem might be even deeper than just the insane amount of dmg you can deal with combo counters, Weeping Wounds, Blood Rush and Maiming Strike. The two other big problems are enemy scaling and damage types!

With the insane Grinner armor scaling at higher levels either a high critical damage or high status chance is indispensable, and personally I hate we have to rely so heavily on slash damage (It doesn't even makes sense! Sure, my blade can't even scratch the enemy's armor, yet he'll bleed to death anyway). And now that I've talked about slash... the other damage types need to be buffed or rebalanced  for sure! Why do we even have magnetic damage (like... at all) when toxin damage can bypass shields at 100%? Same with impact damage! No matter whether it's effective agaist shields when the absurd slash status can bypass anything! And of course it's just the same with puncture (Why reduce armor when you can just bypass it?). The damage types as they are now, work totally against the seemingly ideal concept of specializing your dmg regarding the type of enemy you're going against (that sounds really cool for me)

Now take those mechanics away... and without a rebalancing in scaling this game'd become nearly unplayable at high levels. I've not said anything really new though (just pointed out the elephant in the room) yet wanted to try to remind you that treating the problem only from one of its several issues as a single thing can't fix the entire system.

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As said in the mega post on the first page, making Melee and firearms combo smoothly should be a thing and a high priority:

Combo's shouldn't be exclusively melee but also intergrate firearms in there as well, this will make firearms as much part of the combo as the melee weapon itself.It would make the game incrfedibly dynamic!

Just think about it, couple swings, blast blast with a side arm and the continue the melee chain for added damage. Now that would give you style points.

Being able to lift up enemies in the air and do proper air combo's would be insane for both CC and gameplay

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15 hours ago, Ryuurik said:

I don't have time to read all 53 pages, so i will ask: How will this rework affect to Maiming Strike?

Considering that some of the devs absolutely loathe it and its overall effect on the game with the "spin to win" mentality it enabled and encouraged...

... expect it to be nucked from orbit, pray that they don't overkill anything else in their quest for revenge X_X

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