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[DE]Rebecca

Melee: Present and Future goals!

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Devs, pleeeeease make sure attack speed affects the charge or heavy attack swing speed for melee. That's super important.

Also, do not forget about Jat Kusars charge attack and the augment mod for the Prova "Static Discharge", which appears to be either bugged or just underwhelming.

Thank you

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hace 1 hora, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru dijo:

Devs, pleeeeease make sure attack speed affects the charge or heavy attack swing speed for melee. That's super important.

Also, do not forget about Jat Kusars charge attack and the augment mod for the Prova "Static Discharge", which appears to be either bugged or just underwhelming.

Thank you

the prova augment is just that weak tbh, not bugged, just not worth it.

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I am looking forward to these changes!

One thing, with stances getting looked through can we please get some in game documentation of forced status procs within combos? This kind of transparency would be really nice given the shear amount of changes coming to the melee system. 

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It's great that we are getting Melee weapon reworks but I'm still not sure how the combo multiplayer is going to work now. What would happen to bloodrush and overload condition builds ?!

And the Prime accessories that I bought, how would they show their effects now when channelling is going away 😕

Also it'll be nice to give some noticeable buffs to some melee weapons that don't get much attention and love. 

 

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Just to clarify: As I understand it, this is not a Dynasty Warriors style combo system, correct? As in, the heavy attack button is not used to create unique combo strings, it just interrupts a current combo? Everything in the Devstream pointed to the conclusion that the only thing determining which combo you perform is forward movement, and that is a bit disappointing seeing as there is great potential for interesting combos by combining heavy and light attacks.

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21 minutes ago, Fidelacchius said:

Just to clarify: As I understand it, this is not a Dynasty Warriors style combo system, correct? As in, the heavy attack button is not used to create unique combo strings, it just interrupts a current combo? Everything in the Devstream pointed to the conclusion that the only thing determining which combo you perform is forward movement, and that is a bit disappointing seeing as there is great potential for interesting combos by combining heavy and light attacks.

I agree I have some concerns with this - I was hoping they would implement combos that utilized different combinations of light/heavy attack. Personally I'm always trying to move while attacking, and I'd hate for that to limit my combo choices.

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I agree that sideways movement should not affect what combos come out.   Only Forward and Backward movement should IF specific button combo is pressed.

Like this :

 (Shift + Forward + melee) for "Gap closer"  ;  (Block + Melee) for radial 360 style defensive attack (any kind of it) ;  ( Backwards + melee) for grounded slams or any other combo specific move.    You can use various button combos to trigger extra moves...Like ( Block + Shift + Melee) would perform something extra.

Add (roll + melee) for roll slash (fast slash at the end of roll).        

 

Having to remember certain non basic moves and combos is not a bad thing. it shows dedication and requires some skill.  

If everything is just triggered by movement direction....its just so dull.

 

 

Oh and replace roll animations with sidestep. It should also be MUCH faster than "gun rolls".    Because rolling at melee range is....impractical.  And its not stylish...looks like Dark souls parody cartoons.

 

 

 

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ok, if you are planning on unifying combos, could you still leave in one or two old style combos per weapon class to help differentiate them? as well as not forget unique traits for weapons, like rapiers' bleed or sparring's easy finishers.

and maybe a heavy gap-closer that is an aoe launcher that primes the enemies for extra damage from aerial combos?

maybe a more defensive/CC combo for when you move backwards?

also, i know you haven't worked out the mods' behavior, but just a reminder not to mess up venka prime.

hope you're still reading this thread, love you devs ❤️

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37 minutes ago, KlutzMeister said:

ok, if you are planning on unifying combos, could you still leave in one or two old style combos per weapon class to help differentiate them? as well as not forget unique traits for weapons, like rapiers' bleed or sparring's easy finishers.

and maybe a heavy gap-closer that is an aoe launcher that primes the enemies for extra damage from aerial combos?

maybe a more defensive/CC combo for when you move backwards?

also, i know you haven't worked out the mods' behavior, but just a reminder not to mess up venka prime.

hope you're still reading this thread, love you devs ❤️

Why not add in Hayabusa's Spinning Piledriver also.  You know since we're making requests and all.  😁 

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11 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

Why not add in Hayabusa's Spinning Piledriver also.  You know since we're making requests and all.  😁 

Ask for the heavens above, but expect nothing! ...but, yeah more grapple/wrestling like finishers for fists/sparring would be neat.

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9 hours ago, (PS4)Artaxiax said:

It's great that we are getting Melee weapon reworks but I'm still not sure how the combo multiplayer is going to work now. What would happen to bloodrush and overload condition builds ?!

And the Prime accessories that I bought, how would they show their effects now when channelling is going away 😕

Also it'll be nice to give some noticeable buffs to some melee weapons that don't get much attention and love. 

 

I think they mentiones channeling is going to be a boosted mode. Something like devil trigger. They showed animation for activating it.

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2 hours ago, KlutzMeister said:

ok, if you are planning on unifying combos, could you still leave in one or two old style combos per weapon class to help differentiate them? as well as not forget unique traits for weapons, like rapiers' bleed or sparring's easy finishers.

and maybe a heavy gap-closer that is an aoe launcher that primes the enemies for extra damage from aerial combos?

maybe a more defensive/CC combo for when you move backwards?

also, i know you haven't worked out the mods' behavior, but just a reminder not to mess up venka prime.

hope you're still reading this thread, love you devs ❤️

Dependig on what you mean by "old style combos". If you meant pause and hold combos, absolutely not. They have stated that one of the main purpose of this rework is to eliminate those completely.

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Regarding combos midair, from what ive seen in devstream 114 it will be quite unusable if warframe keeps its inertia midair. Case in point rebecca was struggling to line up her hits against a stationary heavy gunner stuck in bastille.
 

So like how ground combo now has mobile combo when used with forward key, id suggest killing the inertia when starting midair attacks unless directional key is used.

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Il y a 3 heures, KlutzMeister a dit :

 

ok, if you are planning on unifying combos, could you still leave in one or two old style combos per weapon class to help differentiate them? as well as not forget unique traits for weapons, like rapiers' bleed or sparring's easy finishers.

and maybe a heavy gap-closer that is an aoe launcher that primes the enemies for extra damage from aerial combos?

maybe a more defensive/CC combo for when you move backwards?

also, i know you haven't worked out the mods' behavior, but just a reminder not to mess up venka prime.

hope you're still reading this thread, love you devs ❤️

 

I also agree that DE should keep at least 1 iconic combo per stance as for example the slam combo on the tempo royale stance or the bleed stances

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Key word nerf high end scaling hint melee wont scale anymore and the normal damage buff wont be enough to fix this fyi its getting a big old nerf im not thinking otherwise untill i see a drastic change in base damage atleast 6x min 

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17 hours ago, Fidelacchius said:

Just to clarify: As I understand it, this is not a Dynasty Warriors style combo system, correct? As in, the heavy attack button is not used to create unique combo strings, it just interrupts a current combo? Everything in the Devstream pointed to the conclusion that the only thing determining which combo you perform is forward movement, and that is a bit disappointing seeing as there is great potential for interesting combos by combining heavy and light attacks.

I agree. What they said/showed in the initial reveal led me to believe combos would be redistributed between Light and Heavy, but it turns out Heavy is just a charged attack. What's the point of getting rid of channeling if that button is being used for a feature that has no conflicts on the old input? Seems like a huge waste.

What melee really needs tbh is proper displacement, instead of ragdolls. Chases, techs, etc with i-frames and catches would make melee cleaner and safer. Looking at you, sword-whips.

Edited by (PS4)BlitzKeir
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After seeing part of the new melee system I'm somewhere around 50-50 on the matter, half of me likes it the other is a bit unsure what to think.

The system feels slightly restrictive and still borrows from the current combo melee quite a bit, in the sense that you seem to have two 'light' combos which are affected by whether you use your movement keys or not during your attacks. I was hoping for a system where you could mix 'light' with 'heavy' attack to create a more 'free form' range of combos but after seeing the last devstream it doesn't seem to be the case, the combos are 'set in stone' so to speak, similar to the ones in melee 2.0 but much more simple to perform. I'll take it as a good thing still, although I must ask if there will be any differences in damage and effects depending on which melee combo we will use. The current system allows for different effects (guaranteed procs, damage multiplier etc.), depending on the combo you use, some are better than others that's true, reason why I hope melee 3.0 will fix that by making sure that all combos have a use depending on the situation at hand.

The 'heavy' attacks feels more like a charged attack and I must ask what is the point of it? The original idea was to make it 'use up' the combo counter to release a devastation attack, part of the community was not pleased with the idea and I am curios as to what you plan on doing with it now. Will the 'Heavy' attacks be simply a slower yet somewhat stronger attack? Will they be used for CC to rag doll enemies? Speaking of which, I do hope that the rag doll effect will be toned down if the latter example is the case, because quite frankly I find it impractical and I'm sure that there are others who share my thoughts regarding the matter. If you plan on continuing with the original idea concerning heavy attacks I would agree with it BUT instead of using up the counter meter, make it use a third energy source (lets call it 'rage' for now) that is built up by attacking or/and using abilities, this energy could also be linked to the new channeling ability where it makes the player choose between buffing themselves with channeling or releasing a heavy charged attack and use up all their 'rage' resource pool.

Despite being unsure about certain things I still feel that melee 3.0 is going in the right direction and I can't wait to see what changes will follow.

As a Tenno who enjoys melee very much I wish to say thank you for all your hard work and to keep going forward! ^^

 

 

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Know what? As long as we don't get QTE or "Mash X/Y/Z 10 times in five seconds" I'll probably be able to live. That said I would like to see channeling actually be useful beyond "I hit harder and there are light effects". I feel like a build off of the stacking combo system would be best, like while building combos you can use some of that combo stack for heavy attacks, but at key points say every 50 combo stacks you can spend them all to generate either a buff (Damage/speed/range/status/crit) as a kind of "channeling/overdrive mode".

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I like the visuals and proposed weapon changes...

But visuals NEED to inform the user about melee collision and weapon/enemy connection.  If my slam attack visually radiates a large circle outward, I expect my damage to radiate outward appropriately.  Perhaps, we need slam attack mods to really give value to this mechanic?

The proposed weapon changes seem good, but if the Galatine, War, Gram, and Scindo are all just stat cousins with slight native differences, then I think the next big issue will be melee weapon redundancy.  The same issue will be present in hammers, whips, etc.

For weapons to be valuable as primed/prisma/whatever variants or as things beyond mastery-level builders, they need to be more unique (stances excluded).

I cam curious to see what happens going forward with mods...

What they do with reapers/scythes...

And, how this new system will fare in high-level content JUST TO SEE SCALABILITY for everything the game offers...

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...I did want to add, that I think the development team—and all of DE—are really focused on upcoming changes like Fortuna, Railjack, and Melee 3.0, and I DO see their passion in the streams, their respective social media accounts, etc.

So, thank you Digital Extremes for trying and striving for continual improvement and change flanked by a supportive, passionate, vocal, and varied community of players!

Here's to hoping all these endeavors are as successful as we all hope they are!

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53 minutes ago, (PS4)TheRallykiller said:

The proposed weapon changes seem good, but if the Galatine, War, Gram, and Scindo are all just stat cousins with slight native differences, then I think the next big issue will be melee weapon redundancy.  The same issue will be present in hammers, whips, etc.

 

 

That's a good point but I assume when the stats are changed the MR requirement will be as well and like how it is with guns right now there will be viable weapons in each category and it will come down to slight stat differences and personal preferences whether you go with the War or the Gram for instance. 

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So judging from the movesets shown on Devstream 114, the distinguishing properties of the different input attacks together seem to be:

Quote

 

Standing - Slower, more powerful attacks with a beefy-looking finisher attack at the end of combo chains. May be better for DPS & CC as a result.

Moving - Faster, more mobile attacks but weaker, simpler combo chains with no finisher attack. Builds combo counter more quickly as a result.

Blocking - Single, powerful utility attack to close the gap directly from blocking at a modest range.

Heavy - Single, powerful sweeping attack that can be used standalone or incorporated into any combo as a finisher. Consumes combo counter points.

 


Does this sound right? If so, what kind of general meta does this mean for how players should approach melee and combos?

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Guys, melee combos won't work in the air if there is no dedicated way to launch enemies in the air.

This may be a great opportunity to explore the idea of a light attack being charged launches an enemy upward and the player follows it to the air.

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10 minutes ago, (XB1)Blacklash93 said:

So judging from the movesets shown on Devstream 114, the distinguishing properties of the different input attacks together seem to be:


Does this sound right? If so, what kind of general meta does this mean for how players should approach melee and combos?

The general meta would be learning what the combos and what the different attacks do and then use them accordingly.  

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