Melee: Present and Future goals!

[exturkconner]

On 2018-08-16 at 11:18 AM, BeardyKyle said:

Highly doubt but it'll definitely get nerfed. Maybe the range will be significantly reduced, maybe the amount of times you can spin consecutively, maybe it'll only do good damage in channeling mood. 

I don't know all it takes is them making maiming strike work like everything else where that +90 percent is based on the original crit chance instead of being a flat 90 percent added on top to ruin most spin to win builds. And frankly that's a change that should happen. An atterax with a weeping wounds condition overload buzzkill build is more in line with other weapons than what it can currently be with maiming and it's frankly what the weapon should be. A status based weapon where when you do occasionally crit you'll get a big number. If the goal is to balance weapons and to basically not have the meta be so clear cut and so limited to a handful of weapons that change would go a long way into doing it. And it's a change that should be made. It's in line with the other changes that have been happening lately. 

Of course the melee no longer passing through object change already started it and the evening out of range where the small range weapons are going to increase and the long range weapons are going to decrease is going to impact it too. But correcting maiming strikes formula to put it into line with how almost every other mod in the game works would fix no crit weapons being made into crit power houses. 

[Drejzer]

Soo... when will we get the Dev Workshop about the mods, counter and the rest of the concerns of ours?

[Aeron216]

Ok after today's Devstream I'm slightly more concerned now... 

[iuki.]

DE showed some more melee today and it has me a bit worried.

1) It looked like, when reb was in that high level new alert, melee is weak and clunky. ie. she was smacking mobs over and over while they really didn't take much damage. Conversely, the moment she used a primary: the mobs melted super fast. So either that primary is OP or melee has been nerfed hard or reb was doing it wrong. Which is it?

2) Every time they show off melee in these devs streams, they always use controllers and never KB/mouse. My worry is that you will need a controller to do melee effectively due to adding a third melee button to the mix. While on a controller this will probably be easy to exectute, but on kb/mouse? I dunno. My melee channel is on a button that requires me to take my finger off left click to use: it's going to be clunky as heck on KB/mouse, I bet.

[SteveCutler]

On today's dev stream, they mentioned that the channelling mods will be linked to the heavy attack instead. This seems odd to me. Wouldn't the Melee 3.0 system's "on fire" / "rage mode" type thing be the equivalent of channelling, rather than simply heavy attacks? I think everything would translate better to that. Zenurik's channelling efficiency power would affect the duration of the "on fire" mode. Channelling mods that affect efficiency would also affect the duration of the "on fire" mode. Dispatch Overdrive would increase movement speed during the "on fire" mode. And so on.

[Dolynjo]

Il y a 11 heures, Aeron216 a dit :

Ok after today's Devstream I'm slightly more concerned now... 

Why ?

[GinKenshin]

12 hours ago, iuki. said:

DE showed some more melee today and it has me a bit worried.

1) It looked like, when reb was in that high level new alert, melee is weak and clunky. ie. she was smacking mobs over and over while they really didn't take much damage. Conversely, the moment she used a primary: the mobs melted super fast. So either that primary is OP or melee has been nerfed hard or reb was doing it wrong. Which is it?

2) Every time they show off melee in these devs streams, they always use controllers and never KB/mouse. My worry is that you will need a controller to do melee effectively due to adding a third melee button to the mix. While on a controller this will probably be easy to exectute, but on kb/mouse? I dunno. My melee channel is on a button that requires me to take my finger off left click to use: it's going to be clunky as heck on KB/mouse, I bet.

1- maybe it’s unmoded, and I’m pretty sure she didn’t have that high of a combo counter anyway  

2- there’s only 2 button, light and heavy melee. Heavy being left click by default, and you can always change key bindings 

 

  Just wait for it to come for god’s sake

[lZerul]

5 hours ago, GinKenshin said:

1- maybe it’s unmoded, and I’m pretty sure she didn’t have that high of a combo counter anyway  

2- there’s only 2 button, light and heavy melee. Heavy being left click by default, and you can always change key bindings 

 

  Just wait for it to come for god’s sake

We know it had Blast + Corrosive at the very least.

[IAmTheFutureFlash]

in devstream 115 yesterday Rebecca was showing us melee 3.0 when she started switching elements to show us the element effect on weapons, will we able to switch elements during combat? I don't understand nobody mentioned that during the stream, also switched to few defferent stance mods, will we able to switch stances too? this will be cool

[OliverSniper]

1 minute ago, IAmTheFutureFlash said:

in devstream 115 yesterday Rebecca was showing us melee 3.0 when she started switching elements to show us the element effect on weapons, will we able to switch elements during combat? I don't understand nobody mentioned that during the stream, also switched to few defferent stance mods, will we able to switch stances too? this will be cool

that was in the dev build so she just "cheated" the elemental effects onto the weapon

[IAmTheFutureFlash]

7 minutes ago, OliverSniper said:

that was in the dev build so she just "cheated" the elemental effects onto the weapon

I like to see a stance mod and element switch during the mission, that will make melee more cool

[OliverSniper]

So I tried to recreate the Jat kitty Rebeca used with the help of the stats we were able to see and I hope I'm wrong

I used the attack speed stat and the spin and leap attack stats to guess the mods on the weapon as well it's status chance ( again I'm just guessing )
- 90%elementals for electricity and Blast + a 60%/60% elemental 

-Primed Fever Strike for Toxic (combines with the 90% elect. to make corrosive)
-Primed pressure point and Spoiled strike for base dmg

-Primed heavy Trauma for impact

 

[OliverSniper]

2 minutes ago, IAmTheFutureFlash said:

I like to see a stance mod and element switch during the mission, that will make melee more cool

I would love a stance switch on the fly as well but for now I just hope that they won't kill the game for me

[iuki.]

11 hours ago, GinKenshin said:

1- maybe it’s unmoded, and I’m pretty sure she didn’t have that high of a combo counter anyway  

2- there’s only 2 button, light and heavy melee. Heavy being left click by default, and you can always change key bindings 

 

  Just wait for it to come for god’s sake

1) Looks like we are to smack mobs with a weak light attacks that don't do much until you charge up the heavy attack and then release it for the big damage? Also looks like she had elements equipped. But if there was no mods, then why did the primary obviously have them and thus able to melt mobs much faster than melee? Seems odd reb didn't have mods on the primary and not the jat?

2) left click (light attack) / right click (light attack/block combo) / melee channel button (now a heavy attack): that to me looks like three buttons that you will have to use in combos. Correct me if I am wrong.

I am willing to wait to really judge this but please excuse me for being a bit worried by what I see.

[GinKenshin]

6 minutes ago, iuki. said:

1) Looks like we are to smack mobs with a weak light attacks that don't do much until you charge up the heavy attack and then release it for the big damage? Also looks like she had elements equipped. But if there was no mods, then why did the primary obviously have them and thus able to melt mobs much faster than melee? Seems odd reb didn't have mods on the primary and not the jat?

2) left click (light attack) / right click (light attack/block combo) / melee channel button (now a heavy attack): that to me looks like three buttons that you will have to use in combos. Correct me if I am wrong.

I am willing to wait to really judge this but please excuse me for being a bit worried by what I see.

1- even if that is the case, which I guess it is, then we'll just have to deal with it and see how the mods will change. because we can't judge it by the mods that we have now. personally I'm ok with the idea, there's also directional air attacks that might act as charge attacks too 

2- iirc, E is light attack and LMB is heavy, while RMB is blocking. they only said that heavy will replace channeling (which is LMB currently) 

I'd advise you do that, because there's a lot of stuff that's gonna change and judging only 1 aspect won't help because there's factors connecting it that we might not know of 

[iuki.]

All I know is reb was clearly struggling when using melee and had to resort to using mostly the primary to take down those high level mobs.

But if you say the weapon was unmodded/needs combo counter up (which will be impossible in MP games I might add) then I guess that would explain the low melee damage.

Still, I want to see this all executed on KB/mouse instead of only on a controller, it's all I am really asking for.

[Xaxma]

Can we please get the workshop for mod info?

---

[Luka-Song]

On 2018-08-18 at 5:23 PM, iuki. said:

All I know is reb was clearly struggling when using melee and had to resort to using mostly the primary to take down those high level mobs.

But if you say the weapon was unmodded/needs combo counter up (which will be impossible in MP games I might add) then I guess that would explain the low melee damage.

Still, I want to see this all executed on KB/mouse instead of only on a controller, it's all I am really asking for.

They did mention they'd do a massive melee rebalancing, like they did with primaries and secondaries previously.

My safest guess about the low damage shown is that they're draining power from mods and stances and putting it on the base weapon stats, but they haven't gotten around to the second half of it yet so it just looks weak for now.

[Xolgys]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb Luka-Song:

They did mention they'd do a massive melee rebalancing, like they did with primaries and secondaries previously.

My safest guess about the low damage shown is that they're draining power from mods and stances and putting it on the base weapon stats, but they haven't gotten around to the second half of it yet so it just looks weak for now.

was already stated that they increase all melees stats because combo counter will work differently. i cant really see them changing mods because that would make the whole buffing of base stats pointless and a wasted effort. i think the stats are still WIP and jat kitty didnt have a full build in the dev stream, maybe still had the current base stats too so that would explain the mediocore performance. stats are easily changed if decided so i guess they will finish the system itself first and then finalize it with the melee balance pass according to melee 3.0. makes more sense than buffing the weapons before the actual new system is done to judge them appropriately, although that can already be done but its a tad fairer and more logic with the mentioned order in mind.

[(PSN)TheRallykiller]

I was running with the Volnus (spelling?) hammer last night, and despite having fun building it out I felt there was still strong overlap with other hammers despite stat differences.

It appears that stances will really become an even greater part of weapon customization, and I almost feel like every weapon should have its own stance (or its own iteration of an existing stance) or passive effect to further differentiate them from one another.

[Luka-Song]

34 minutes ago, (PS4)TheRallykiller said:

I was running with the Volnus (spelling?) hammer last night, and despite having fun building it out I felt there was still strong overlap with other hammers despite stat differences.

It appears that stances will really become an even greater part of weapon customization, and I almost feel like every weapon should have its own stance (or its own iteration of an existing stance) or passive effect to further differentiate them from one another.

That'd be such a massive workload considering how many weapons we have. I'm not entirely sure it'd be worth the effort.

In my own opinion, I'm quite comfortable with weapon differences in stats and the occasional unique passive. For instance, the Volnus is unusually fast for a hammer.

[(PSN)TheRallykiller]

1 hour ago, Luka-Song said:

That'd be such a massive workload considering how many weapons we have. I'm not entirely sure it'd be worth the effort.

In my own opinion, I'm quite comfortable with weapon differences in stats and the occasional unique passive. For instance, the Volnus is unusually fast for a hammer.

I agree, and I think speed is it's stand-out stat, but that's not indicative of all hammers/maces/some axes & swords.

If melee is getting a massive rework, I'm thinking long term melee weapon viability (and we'll probably get there with primary and secondary weapons too) will have to be looked at again if more weapons are added that skirt the line between "new" and "palette swap".

There's way more bleed over between weapons than *I THINK we realize without reviewing the total arsenal.  I have long pushed for more passives and/or more stand-out passives on weapons (Sibear comes to mind with its increased status chance contrasting with it's weapons type and usable stances).

Perhaps 3.0 will address this indirectly, but IMHO there's still a lot of redundancy without meaningful overt differentiation—especially in melee.

[Luka-Song]

2 hours ago, (PS4)TheRallykiller said:

I agree, and I think speed is it's stand-out stat, but that's not indicative of all hammers/maces/some axes & swords.

If melee is getting a massive rework, I'm thinking long term melee weapon viability (and we'll probably get there with primary and secondary weapons too) will have to be looked at again if more weapons are added that skirt the line between "new" and "palette swap".

There's way more bleed over between weapons than *I THINK we realize without reviewing the total arsenal.  I have long pushed for more passives and/or more stand-out passives on weapons (Sibear comes to mind with its increased status chance contrasting with it's weapons type and usable stances).

Perhaps 3.0 will address this indirectly, but IMHO there's still a lot of redundancy without meaningful overt differentiation—especially in melee.

I do feel like recently they've been dishing out more unique weapon effects, especially with prime weapons (e.g. ballistica and pyrana primes), maybe with the big melee rebalance they'll revisit some old melees and add unique special effects to some. Could even help push some forgotten weapons like the jaw sword into relevancy.

[Urlan]

17 minutes ago, Luka-Song said:

I do feel like recently they've been dishing out more unique weapon effects, especially with prime weapons (e.g. ballistica and pyrana primes), maybe with the big melee rebalance they'll revisit some old melees and add unique special effects to some. Could even help push some forgotten weapons like the jaw sword into relevancy.

I think that would be a great idea! Like maybe giving some weapons a ramp up attack speed on kill or similar for instance or other neat effects that would give them individuality over just stats. That would be a solid path.

[(PSN)TheRallykiller]

1 hour ago, Luka-Song said:

I do feel like recently they've been dishing out more unique weapon effects, especially with prime weapons (e.g. ballistica and pyrana primes), maybe with the big melee rebalance they'll revisit some old melees and add unique special effects to some. Could even help push some forgotten weapons like the jaw sword into relevancy.

Great point; I agree!