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[DE]Rebecca

Melee: Present and Future goals!

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Spin to win is really hard on my carpal tunnel. At the same time I don't want maiming strike and my slide cc rivens to be useless or need to be re rolled. That would be a large time sink. Perhaps repurpose this stat with a relevant variable such as heavy attack has 90% chance to be a critical hit.

I am also concerned about how the combo counter only being used to amplify heavy attack damage will affect Warframes like Ash who rely upon it to deal ability damage. I can see this affecting his useabality drastically.

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3 minutes ago, (PS4)Soul_o-O_Eater said:

At the same time I don't want maiming strike and my slide cc rivens to be useless or need to be re rolled.

The same is true for all channeling (efficiency, damage, etc.) and there's no way everyone who channels is going to come out ahead.  I melee semi constantly and channel heavily with energy hungry rage-fueled builds...pretty sure that risk/reward equation is completely changing.

While that's a bit scary, I think we should push back VERY hard against the desires all of us have to keep our toys working and of 'equal value'.  We get the best results for all of us if we focus on gameplay.  We shouldn't hold up progress.

 

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2 hours ago, FreeWilliam said:

The same is true for all channeling (efficiency, damage, etc.) and there's no way everyone who channels is going to come out ahead.  I melee semi constantly and channel heavily with energy hungry rage-fueled builds...pretty sure that risk/reward equation is completely changing.

While that's a bit scary, I think we should push back VERY hard against the desires all of us have to keep our toys working and of 'equal value'.  We get the best results for all of us if we focus on gameplay.  We shouldn't hold up progress.

 

I don't think that statement makes much sense currently.

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1 hour ago, Urlan said:

I don't think that statement makes much sense currently.

It's basically the opposite of 'Everyone else needs this to stay because I've got this awesome setup/mod'

 

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1 hour ago, FreeWilliam said:

It's basically the opposite of 'Everyone else needs this to stay because I've got this awesome setup/mod'

 

Well, for that one, I think the better mindset would be that progress only happens with positive change; and for one to determine if they are going to have positive change or negative change, a person needs more concrete information about what is coming versus what they are losing.

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3 hours ago, Urlan said:

Well, for that one, I think the better mindset would be that progress only happens with positive change; and for one to determine if they are going to have positive change or negative change, a person needs more concrete information about what is coming versus what they are losing.

I'll agree to that. They have shown quite a bit of the new system so far and I think they are set on going forward with it. With that said, I wanted to offer suggestions since it still is not finished, according to the Devs. I think they said it is half way done so now is a great time for that. I'm pretty sure a riven stat would be a variable they could change to suit their new system. There should also be a way to make a rare mod like maiming strike, viable within DE's guidelines. 

They did mention a few times, their admiration for the new god of war combat system. I hope function is not lost in inspiration and that this doesn't becomes "God of Warframe". I believe they can come up with a way to make this original in their game so it feels right.

Edited by (PS4)Soul_o-O_Eater

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Pls let "tenno fire mode" allow us to become immune to Nullie bubble effects (idk, like AT fields in Evangelion)

As an Oberon who heals a lot, the last thing I'd do is walk into a Nullie bubble and have to re cast the heal for just myself. Yes I could switch to a machine gun, but that takes longer and I really want a reason to keep my melee out....otherwise quick melee does everything just as good AND faster....AND easier to use. (which is what I do now...quick melee>equipping melee)

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On ‎2018‎-‎08‎-‎13 at 2:03 PM, Williamwaitunnaing said:

My question is "is spin to win gone entirely? (will DE overnerf it) or is it still useable? (will DE logically nerf it)" Because I have seen many developers nerf something and make the mechanic completely unusable and make the players really salty about it. 

Highly doubt but it'll definitely get nerfed. Maybe the range will be significantly reduced, maybe the amount of times you can spin consecutively, maybe it'll only do good damage in channeling mood. 

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On 2018-08-16 at 11:18 AM, BeardyKyle said:

Highly doubt but it'll definitely get nerfed. Maybe the range will be significantly reduced, maybe the amount of times you can spin consecutively, maybe it'll only do good damage in channeling mood. 

I don't know all it takes is them making maiming strike work like everything else where that +90 percent is based on the original crit chance instead of being a flat 90 percent added on top to ruin most spin to win builds. And frankly that's a change that should happen. An atterax with a weeping wounds condition overload buzzkill build is more in line with other weapons than what it can currently be with maiming and it's frankly what the weapon should be. A status based weapon where when you do occasionally crit you'll get a big number. If the goal is to balance weapons and to basically not have the meta be so clear cut and so limited to a handful of weapons that change would go a long way into doing it. And it's a change that should be made. It's in line with the other changes that have been happening lately. 

Of course the melee no longer passing through object change already started it and the evening out of range where the small range weapons are going to increase and the long range weapons are going to decrease is going to impact it too. But correcting maiming strikes formula to put it into line with how almost every other mod in the game works would fix no crit weapons being made into crit power houses. 

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Soo... when will we get the Dev Workshop about the mods, counter and the rest of the concerns of ours?

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Ok after today's Devstream I'm slightly more concerned now... 

Edited by Aeron216

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DE showed some more melee today and it has me a bit worried.

1) It looked like, when reb was in that high level new alert, melee is weak and clunky. ie. she was smacking mobs over and over while they really didn't take much damage. Conversely, the moment she used a primary: the mobs melted super fast. So either that primary is OP or melee has been nerfed hard or reb was doing it wrong. Which is it?

2) Every time they show off melee in these devs streams, they always use controllers and never KB/mouse. My worry is that you will need a controller to do melee effectively due to adding a third melee button to the mix. While on a controller this will probably be easy to exectute, but on kb/mouse? I dunno. My melee channel is on a button that requires me to take my finger off left click to use: it's going to be clunky as heck on KB/mouse, I bet.

Edited by iuki.
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On today's dev stream, they mentioned that the channelling mods will be linked to the heavy attack instead. This seems odd to me. Wouldn't the Melee 3.0 system's "on fire" / "rage mode" type thing be the equivalent of channelling, rather than simply heavy attacks? I think everything would translate better to that. Zenurik's channelling efficiency power would affect the duration of the "on fire" mode. Channelling mods that affect efficiency would also affect the duration of the "on fire" mode. Dispatch Overdrive would increase movement speed during the "on fire" mode. And so on.

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Il y a 11 heures, Aeron216 a dit :

Ok after today's Devstream I'm slightly more concerned now... 

Why ?

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12 hours ago, iuki. said:

DE showed some more melee today and it has me a bit worried.

1) It looked like, when reb was in that high level new alert, melee is weak and clunky. ie. she was smacking mobs over and over while they really didn't take much damage. Conversely, the moment she used a primary: the mobs melted super fast. So either that primary is OP or melee has been nerfed hard or reb was doing it wrong. Which is it?

2) Every time they show off melee in these devs streams, they always use controllers and never KB/mouse. My worry is that you will need a controller to do melee effectively due to adding a third melee button to the mix. While on a controller this will probably be easy to exectute, but on kb/mouse? I dunno. My melee channel is on a button that requires me to take my finger off left click to use: it's going to be clunky as heck on KB/mouse, I bet.

1- maybe it’s unmoded, and I’m pretty sure she didn’t have that high of a combo counter anyway  

2- there’s only 2 button, light and heavy melee. Heavy being left click by default, and you can always change key bindings 

 

  Just wait for it to come for god’s sake

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5 hours ago, GinKenshin said:

1- maybe it’s unmoded, and I’m pretty sure she didn’t have that high of a combo counter anyway  

2- there’s only 2 button, light and heavy melee. Heavy being left click by default, and you can always change key bindings 

 

  Just wait for it to come for god’s sake

We know it had Blast + Corrosive at the very least.

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in devstream 115 yesterday Rebecca was showing us melee 3.0 when she started switching elements to show us the element effect on weapons, will we able to switch elements during combat? I don't understand nobody mentioned that during the stream, also switched to few defferent stance mods, will we able to switch stances too? this will be cool

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1 minute ago, IAmTheFutureFlash said:

in devstream 115 yesterday Rebecca was showing us melee 3.0 when she started switching elements to show us the element effect on weapons, will we able to switch elements during combat? I don't understand nobody mentioned that during the stream, also switched to few defferent stance mods, will we able to switch stances too? this will be cool

that was in the dev build so she just "cheated" the elemental effects onto the weapon

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7 minutes ago, OliverSniper said:

that was in the dev build so she just "cheated" the elemental effects onto the weapon

I like to see a stance mod and element switch during the mission, that will make melee more cool

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So I tried to recreate the Jat kitty Rebeca used with the help of the stats we were able to see and I hope I'm wrong

I used the attack speed stat and the spin and leap attack stats to guess the mods on the weapon as well it's status chance ( again I'm just guessing )
- 90%elementals for electricity and Blast + a 60%/60% elemental 

-Primed Fever Strike for Toxic (combines with the 90% elect. to make corrosive)
-Primed pressure point and Spoiled strike for base dmg

-Primed heavy Trauma for impact

 

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2 minutes ago, IAmTheFutureFlash said:

I like to see a stance mod and element switch during the mission, that will make melee more cool

I would love a stance switch on the fly as well but for now I just hope that they won't kill the game for me

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11 hours ago, GinKenshin said:

1- maybe it’s unmoded, and I’m pretty sure she didn’t have that high of a combo counter anyway  

2- there’s only 2 button, light and heavy melee. Heavy being left click by default, and you can always change key bindings 

 

  Just wait for it to come for god’s sake

1) Looks like we are to smack mobs with a weak light attacks that don't do much until you charge up the heavy attack and then release it for the big damage? Also looks like she had elements equipped. But if there was no mods, then why did the primary obviously have them and thus able to melt mobs much faster than melee? Seems odd reb didn't have mods on the primary and not the jat?

2) left click (light attack) / right click (light attack/block combo) / melee channel button (now a heavy attack): that to me looks like three buttons that you will have to use in combos. Correct me if I am wrong.

I am willing to wait to really judge this but please excuse me for being a bit worried by what I see.

Edited by iuki.
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6 minutes ago, iuki. said:

1) Looks like we are to smack mobs with a weak light attacks that don't do much until you charge up the heavy attack and then release it for the big damage? Also looks like she had elements equipped. But if there was no mods, then why did the primary obviously have them and thus able to melt mobs much faster than melee? Seems odd reb didn't have mods on the primary and not the jat?

2) left click (light attack) / right click (light attack/block combo) / melee channel button (now a heavy attack): that to me looks like three buttons that you will have to use in combos. Correct me if I am wrong.

I am willing to wait to really judge this but please excuse me for being a bit worried by what I see.

1- even if that is the case, which I guess it is, then we'll just have to deal with it and see how the mods will change. because we can't judge it by the mods that we have now. personally I'm ok with the idea, there's also directional air attacks that might act as charge attacks too 

2- iirc, E is light attack and LMB is heavy, while RMB is blocking. they only said that heavy will replace channeling (which is LMB currently) 

I'd advise you do that, because there's a lot of stuff that's gonna change and judging only 1 aspect won't help because there's factors connecting it that we might not know of 

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All I know is reb was clearly struggling when using melee and had to resort to using mostly the primary to take down those high level mobs.

But if you say the weapon was unmodded/needs combo counter up (which will be impossible in MP games I might add) then I guess that would explain the low melee damage.

Still, I want to see this all executed on KB/mouse instead of only on a controller, it's all I am really asking for.

Edited by iuki.
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