Melee: Present and Future goals!

[theraot]

En 11/5/2018 a las 14:09, [DE]Rebecca dijo:

or a separate resource

Is that...

Spoiler

Stamina‽

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Now, in all seriousness. I know you will do it right, and you are talking your time with it. Yet, having to forma my mele again is a worry.

Considering the precedent of the legendary fusion cores, perhaps legendary formas that do not require to level up to change a polarity are in order. They could be restricted by weapon type (Mele Legendary Forma) and be unobtainium except as compensation for each forma applied to mele weapons before this update.

If thse lengendary formas I suggest are ever added to the grind in some capacity, I expect them to be as rare as legendary cores. Making them tradable is not the intention, even if it makes sense to make them tradable. So, they need a huge tax if you do.

What do you say DE? Is that viable?

I hereby dedicate the contents of this post to the public domain, and renounce any rights I may have over it. Feel free to implement this idea.

[(PSN)TheRallykiller]

4 hours ago, theraot said:

Is that...

  Reveal hidden contents

Stamina‽

---

Now, in all seriousness. I know you will do it right, and you are talking your time with it. Yet, having to forma my mele again is a worry.

Considering the precedent of the legendary fusion cores, perhaps legendary formas that do not require to level up to change a polarity are in order. They could be restricted by weapon type (Mele Legendary Forma) and be unobtainium except as compensation for each forma applied to mele weapons before this update.

If thse lengendary formas I suggest are ever added to the grind in some capacity, I expect them to be as rare as legendary cores. Making them tradable is not the intention, even if it makes sense to make them tradable. So, they need a huge tax if you do.

What do you say DE? Is that viable?

I hereby dedicate the contents of this post to the public domain, and renounce any rights I may have over it. Feel free to implement this idea.

IMHO, DE should consider doing a 2x affinity weekend or week event when they release Melee 3.0 presuming Tenno will have to alter their loadouts at least a little...

[(PSN)TheRallykiller]

19 hours ago, Luka-Song said:

I do feel like recently they've been dishing out more unique weapon effects, especially with prime weapons (e.g. ballistica and pyrana primes), maybe with the big melee rebalance they'll revisit some old melees and add unique special effects to some. Could even help push some forgotten weapons like the jaw sword into relevancy.

I know Steve and some other members of the team play a lot of other games (Skyrim and Dark Souls are stand outs), and I think those games both have great weapon passive effects, and unique weapon attacks executed on a normal or "heavy" attack (predominantly with single button presses).

I think it would fit lore, and work with existing in-game assets/mechanics to a Warframe equivalent to Dark Soul's Moonlight Greatsword or ANY of Elderscrolls' Daedric variety of weapons...

Tenno use ancient-but-advanced technologies that hybridize complex tech and historic martial weaponry.

With more weapons getting passives or unique effects on attack (in theory), these changes could still translate really well into Melee 3.0.

[(XBOX)omegaMAXIMUS080]

Please dont take away melee channeling!!  This is such a great melee feature that encourages the use of melee weapons and I think we all have weapons loadouts built around channeling including our Focus channeling efficiency. Please leave Channeling in the game!! 

[Jarriaga]

I wonder how Naramon is going to work after the rework. Will you just lose 5 hits in the combo counter as opposed to the whole combo when using a heavy attack, or will you have a combo time window still on top of losing it on heavy attacks?

[Urlan]

1 hour ago, Jarriaga said:

I wonder how Naramon is going to work after the rework. Will you just lose 5 hits in the combo counter as opposed to the whole combo when using a heavy attack, or will you have a combo time window still on top of losing it on heavy attacks?

A very good question! I too would like to know how the focus schools with nodes around combos or channeling will be changed.

[Jarriaga]

3 minutes ago, Urlan said:

A very good question! I too would like to know how the focus schools with nodes around combos or channeling will be changed.

Indeed. I went from Madurai to Naramon with Valkyr and never looked back after reaching a 4.5x multiplier. Depending on how Naramon behaves with regards to the new combo counter and Blood Rush/Weeping Wounds then it could become useless besides the way-bound passive for dash range.

[Luka-Song]

Are we going to get another dev workshop on melees before the update? And if so, will it include the "rage mode" teased in the devstream? I feel like a good chunk of power and possibly even focus perks will be tied to it, and am quite curious about how it'll work 

[Accaliah]

with this new update, you guys should add a chainsaw weapon into the game, i think it would be amazing considering the heavy attack could be bad ass and if your combo multi is high enough it could even give target a leatherface style execution or maybe even if enemy is close to death on swing proc a bad ass finisher on chance

 

image is an idea of what it could look like

gif of what the finisher or heavy attack could look like

i know there was plans of the ghoul circular saw was gonna be added but lets be honest a true chainsaw is much more badass then a circular saw :p

[ShogunGunshow]

Sure would be nice to get that dev workshop that was mentioned weeks ago.

[LupoDWolf]

I think that with mods like weeping/bloodrush is make then work somewhat like berserker, making their bufs last for a time, and only increase if e reach a higher number,but not reset.

Also, I think he bonus damage of the multiplier can stay if hey use hits a separate thing of the multiplier for heavy 

[Steel_Sentry]

On 2018-08-29 at 5:04 PM, ShogunGunshow said:

Sure would be nice to get that dev workshop that was mentioned weeks ago.

Months*

[Rage_Inducer]

There's only one thing that can determine how good or bad this rework is and worryingly it's the one thing that I saw no clarification on.
Will Blood Rush and Weeping Wounds apply to light attacks?
If they do not then this rework is a massive nerf to the scalability of melee which is what makes it great right now.
If they work then it's a great change.

All that's needed to fix the spin to win meta is to make maiming strike apply only to heavy attacks as opposed to spins and that's that.

[Luka-Song]

7 hours ago, Rage_Inducer said:

All that's needed to fix the spin to win meta is to make maiming strike apply only to heavy attacks as opposed to spins and that's that.

That'd just make a heavy attack meta though, which is just as boring

[Rage_Inducer]

hace 14 minutos, Luka-Song dijo:

That'd just make a heavy attack meta though, which is just as boring

Heavy attacks use up all the combo which you build up with light attacks.
No combo means Maiming Strike can't loop 7 chugillion times through Blood Rush any more. You'd get one good hit and that's about it.
Spamming heavy attacks is not viable by design.

[FreeWilliam]

5 hours ago, Rage_Inducer said:

Heavy attacks use up all the combo which you build up with light attacks.
No combo means Maiming Strike can't loop 7 chugillion times through Blood Rush any more. You'd get one good hit and that's about it.
Spamming heavy attacks is not viable by design.

Oh yeah, good point.

If so, I like how that would work.  It'd also be good for adding some strategy with how we'd use heavy attacks.

DE, could we get effects other than damage on heavy attacks as we let our combo counter grow?  Like increased range, speed, buffs, things you can put in the stances or on the weapon, that sort of thing?

I could see REALLY spicing up how we use heavy attacks and adding a bunch of strategy there too.  Even peculiar type effects (on US, not on mobs that vanish in a few seconds, make us glorious) would be great!

[Cephalon_Umbra]

Post still not updated...

[csaszar]

I know DE has put a lot of effort into melee 3.0 (that means money) so every criticism looks bad for them.

But please use reason. Remove channeling and take away combos isnt the right path.

Dont listen to thoose who compare WF melee to other games. Theese ppl mostly stay a bit then move away and wont shed any tears over a screwed game.

According to the info we have this far melee 3.0 will be a disaster. With its known attributes it cant be nearly as effective as melee are right now. I sefiously hope this rework thing isnt a hidden strike to force the players into the starchart lvl enemies. Maybe it is...

The solution to the current problems ia very easy:

1) Change maiming strike and the riven equivivalent into yomething useful but not godly effect. Maybe make maiming strike (the mod) into the uniqee mod that has 3 effect/modifier. Or change it anyway that stops it being the lazy man best solution and overall must have thingy.

2) Make most combos easyer to achive, less button to mash and without the hold and pause elements. Rework some lackluster stances but keep the good ones. Maybe include channeling into the combo requirements making channeling even more useful.

 

Most players dont know how to do melee, how to use the awesome given stuff because meme strike makes everything irrelevant for the 99% of the ppl.

Right now we have awesome synergies with arcanes combos and channeling, simply the most players dont bother to explore them. Take the easy "cheat" meme strime away - as i proposed with some compensation - and in the long run everyone will win.

[Guest]

Welcome changes - the spin 2 win thing is completely dumb. There's no skill in spamming two buttons.

[FreeWilliam]

14 minutes ago, arii1986 said:

Welcome changes - the spin 2 win thing is completely dumb. There's no skill in spamming two buttons.

I think some Spin2Win fans would argue that it's not that fundamentally different from an Ignis or a Saryn. 

That being said, the fact that Spin2Win involves sliding 'near' things while not actively engaging with any enemies (if you bump into anything that you can't one-shot you have to slide away from it or backpedal) really does take the fun out of melee, especially since you can slide past somebody who's trying to melee in a more engaging way and pop everything in the area (rude, right?).  I get the way the bonus works (it gives low-crit weapons situational boosts), but it always needed a cooldown or something to prevent the spam/movement combo. 

With 3.0, if Blood Rush effects work on light attacks then I suspect we'll still have a problem with it (they could also greatly reduce the range on a timer, or a number of other things..just make sure it's less effective than standing toe-to-toe except perhaps in tactical bursts)

Given that they're taking out channeling COMPLETELY (something I use constantly, partly to let me not one-shot lower level enemies while still being able to handle tougher ones) I hope Spin2Win isn't being treated with kid gloves. We should NOT be motivated to use it the way we are.

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, FreeWilliam said:

I think some Spin2Win fans would argue that it's not that fundamentally different from an Ignis or a Saryn. 

 

Ignis is a flamethrower - it shoots flames. At the very least it's realistic. Well in a game of space ninjas I guess realism is out the window. But I'm sure when they created the Ignis, they wanted a flamethrower style weapon. With Maiming Strike - did they want to create an OP playing style based on one attack?

Saryn: okay, she has a very low skill gap. But decent Saryn players will outperform mediocre ones. You still have to manage your spores, spread it around effectively, keep your toxic lash up etc etc

Personally, spin2win isn't really comparable. It's overly powerful, lacks skill and looks incredibly stupid. 

[FreeWilliam]

2 hours ago, arii1986 said:

 

Personally, spin2win isn't really comparable. It's overly powerful, lacks skill and looks incredibly stupid. 

I firmly agree (especially on the third point), and am pretty sure I spent my entire post agreeing and adding some nuance.

What I want to be careful of is demonizing the concept.  It's not the fault of Tenno that they're being motivated to use Spin2Win.  It is (as we're all agreeing) far too low-effort and disproportionately powerful.  It also interferes with frames that are trying to use any other sort of melee.

Given that they're completely removing Channeling (Definitely the best way to make builds that DON'T interfere with other Tenno while still allowing us to handle high level content), I'm hoping that they're similarly willing to ditch a far less important part of the game (Spin2Win) if it's unbalancing the game and am uncertain if that's the case.  I'm feeling like people like myself simply were never part of the conversation because we don't play like the 'big content creators'.

Most important to me is an engaging and diverse melee experience that rewards me for interacting and being creative while having a good risk/reward ratio with power-based and ranged builds.  I'll happily lose all my favorite toys if that's what we get.  

I'm just not 100% sure that's what I'm seeing.  The increase in damage and removing of the gradual scaling of the combo counter (combined with the fact that AFAIK blood rush effects still will benefit maiming strike) and I'm a little worried we'll just see a lot of alpha-strike builds and a whole bunch of (yes, stupid-looking) butt-scooting past enemies to pop them with huge red numbers. 

I'd love to hear from DE that my concerns are unfounded and (even better) not only is that all factored in but I can look forward to a pleasant surprise or two.

[snarfbot]

Good both channeling and spin2win are both awful, as long as life strike gets reworked as well so it's still works somehow nobody is gonna miss either.

[Steel_Sentry]

So...when is this happening?

[Cibyllae]

3 hours ago, Steel_Centurion said:

So...when is this happening?

Spoiler

Soon