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[DE]Rebecca

Melee: Present and Future goals!

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On 2018-08-18 at 5:23 PM, iuki. said:

All I know is reb was clearly struggling when using melee and had to resort to using mostly the primary to take down those high level mobs.

But if you say the weapon was unmodded/needs combo counter up (which will be impossible in MP games I might add) then I guess that would explain the low melee damage.

Still, I want to see this all executed on KB/mouse instead of only on a controller, it's all I am really asking for.

They did mention they'd do a massive melee rebalancing, like they did with primaries and secondaries previously.

My safest guess about the low damage shown is that they're draining power from mods and stances and putting it on the base weapon stats, but they haven't gotten around to the second half of it yet so it just looks weak for now.

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vor 4 Stunden schrieb Luka-Song:

They did mention they'd do a massive melee rebalancing, like they did with primaries and secondaries previously.

My safest guess about the low damage shown is that they're draining power from mods and stances and putting it on the base weapon stats, but they haven't gotten around to the second half of it yet so it just looks weak for now.

was already stated that they increase all melees stats because combo counter will work differently. i cant really see them changing mods because that would make the whole buffing of base stats pointless and a wasted effort. i think the stats are still WIP and jat kitty didnt have a full build in the dev stream, maybe still had the current base stats too so that would explain the mediocore performance. stats are easily changed if decided so i guess they will finish the system itself first and then finalize it with the melee balance pass according to melee 3.0. makes more sense than buffing the weapons before the actual new system is done to judge them appropriately, although that can already be done but its a tad fairer and more logic with the mentioned order in mind.

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I was running with the Volnus (spelling?) hammer last night, and despite having fun building it out I felt there was still strong overlap with other hammers despite stat differences.

It appears that stances will really become an even greater part of weapon customization, and I almost feel like every weapon should have its own stance (or its own iteration of an existing stance) or passive effect to further differentiate them from one another.

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34 minutes ago, (PS4)TheRallykiller said:

I was running with the Volnus (spelling?) hammer last night, and despite having fun building it out I felt there was still strong overlap with other hammers despite stat differences.

It appears that stances will really become an even greater part of weapon customization, and I almost feel like every weapon should have its own stance (or its own iteration of an existing stance) or passive effect to further differentiate them from one another.

That'd be such a massive workload considering how many weapons we have. I'm not entirely sure it'd be worth the effort.

In my own opinion, I'm quite comfortable with weapon differences in stats and the occasional unique passive. For instance, the Volnus is unusually fast for a hammer.

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1 hour ago, Luka-Song said:

That'd be such a massive workload considering how many weapons we have. I'm not entirely sure it'd be worth the effort.

In my own opinion, I'm quite comfortable with weapon differences in stats and the occasional unique passive. For instance, the Volnus is unusually fast for a hammer.

I agree, and I think speed is it's stand-out stat, but that's not indicative of all hammers/maces/some axes & swords.

If melee is getting a massive rework, I'm thinking long term melee weapon viability (and we'll probably get there with primary and secondary weapons too) will have to be looked at again if more weapons are added that skirt the line between "new" and "palette swap".

There's way more bleed over between weapons than *I THINK we realize without reviewing the total arsenal.  I have long pushed for more passives and/or more stand-out passives on weapons (Sibear comes to mind with its increased status chance contrasting with it's weapons type and usable stances).

Perhaps 3.0 will address this indirectly, but IMHO there's still a lot of redundancy without meaningful overt differentiation—especially in melee.

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2 hours ago, (PS4)TheRallykiller said:

I agree, and I think speed is it's stand-out stat, but that's not indicative of all hammers/maces/some axes & swords.

If melee is getting a massive rework, I'm thinking long term melee weapon viability (and we'll probably get there with primary and secondary weapons too) will have to be looked at again if more weapons are added that skirt the line between "new" and "palette swap".

There's way more bleed over between weapons than *I THINK we realize without reviewing the total arsenal.  I have long pushed for more passives and/or more stand-out passives on weapons (Sibear comes to mind with its increased status chance contrasting with it's weapons type and usable stances).

Perhaps 3.0 will address this indirectly, but IMHO there's still a lot of redundancy without meaningful overt differentiation—especially in melee.

I do feel like recently they've been dishing out more unique weapon effects, especially with prime weapons (e.g. ballistica and pyrana primes), maybe with the big melee rebalance they'll revisit some old melees and add unique special effects to some. Could even help push some forgotten weapons like the jaw sword into relevancy.

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17 minutes ago, Luka-Song said:

I do feel like recently they've been dishing out more unique weapon effects, especially with prime weapons (e.g. ballistica and pyrana primes), maybe with the big melee rebalance they'll revisit some old melees and add unique special effects to some. Could even help push some forgotten weapons like the jaw sword into relevancy.

I think that would be a great idea! Like maybe giving some weapons a ramp up attack speed on kill or similar for instance or other neat effects that would give them individuality over just stats. That would be a solid path.

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1 hour ago, Luka-Song said:

I do feel like recently they've been dishing out more unique weapon effects, especially with prime weapons (e.g. ballistica and pyrana primes), maybe with the big melee rebalance they'll revisit some old melees and add unique special effects to some. Could even help push some forgotten weapons like the jaw sword into relevancy.

Great point; I agree! 

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En 11/5/2018 a las 14:09, [DE]Rebecca dijo:

or a separate resource

Is that...

Spoiler

Stamina

---

Now, in all seriousness. I know you will do it right, and you are talking your time with it. Yet, having to forma my mele again is a worry.

Considering the precedent of the legendary fusion cores, perhaps legendary formas that do not require to level up to change a polarity are in order. They could be restricted by weapon type (Mele Legendary Forma) and be unobtainium except as compensation for each forma applied to mele weapons before this update.

If thse lengendary formas I suggest are ever added to the grind in some capacity, I expect them to be as rare as legendary cores. Making them tradable is not the intention, even if it makes sense to make them tradable. So, they need a huge tax if you do.

What do you say DE? Is that viable?

I hereby dedicate the contents of this post to the public domain, and renounce any rights I may have over it. Feel free to implement this idea.

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4 hours ago, theraot said:

Is that...

  Reveal hidden contents

Stamina

---

Now, in all seriousness. I know you will do it right, and you are talking your time with it. Yet, having to forma my mele again is a worry.

Considering the precedent of the legendary fusion cores, perhaps legendary formas that do not require to level up to change a polarity are in order. They could be restricted by weapon type (Mele Legendary Forma) and be unobtainium except as compensation for each forma applied to mele weapons before this update.

If thse lengendary formas I suggest are ever added to the grind in some capacity, I expect them to be as rare as legendary cores. Making them tradable is not the intention, even if it makes sense to make them tradable. So, they need a huge tax if you do.

What do you say DE? Is that viable?

I hereby dedicate the contents of this post to the public domain, and renounce any rights I may have over it. Feel free to implement this idea.

IMHO, DE should consider doing a 2x affinity weekend or week event when they release Melee 3.0 presuming Tenno will have to alter their loadouts at least a little...

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19 hours ago, Luka-Song said:

I do feel like recently they've been dishing out more unique weapon effects, especially with prime weapons (e.g. ballistica and pyrana primes), maybe with the big melee rebalance they'll revisit some old melees and add unique special effects to some. Could even help push some forgotten weapons like the jaw sword into relevancy.

I know Steve and some other members of the team play a lot of other games (Skyrim and Dark Souls are stand outs), and I think those games both have great weapon passive effects, and unique weapon attacks executed on a normal or "heavy" attack (predominantly with single button presses).

I think it would fit lore, and work with existing in-game assets/mechanics to a Warframe equivalent to Dark Soul's Moonlight Greatsword or ANY of Elderscrolls' Daedric variety of weapons...

Tenno use ancient-but-advanced technologies that hybridize complex tech and historic martial weaponry.

With more weapons getting passives or unique effects on attack (in theory), these changes could still translate really well into Melee 3.0.

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Please dont take away melee channeling!!  This is such a great melee feature that encourages the use of melee weapons and I think we all have weapons loadouts built around channeling including our Focus channeling efficiency. Please leave Channeling in the game!! 

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I wonder how Naramon is going to work after the rework. Will you just lose 5 hits in the combo counter as opposed to the whole combo when using a heavy attack, or will you have a combo time window still on top of losing it on heavy attacks?

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1 hour ago, Jarriaga said:

I wonder how Naramon is going to work after the rework. Will you just lose 5 hits in the combo counter as opposed to the whole combo when using a heavy attack, or will you have a combo time window still on top of losing it on heavy attacks?

A very good question! I too would like to know how the focus schools with nodes around combos or channeling will be changed.

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3 minutes ago, Urlan said:

A very good question! I too would like to know how the focus schools with nodes around combos or channeling will be changed.

Indeed. I went from Madurai to Naramon with Valkyr and never looked back after reaching a 4.5x multiplier. Depending on how Naramon behaves with regards to the new combo counter and Blood Rush/Weeping Wounds then it could become useless besides the way-bound passive for dash range.

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Are we going to get another dev workshop on melees before the update? And if so, will it include the "rage mode" teased in the devstream? I feel like a good chunk of power and possibly even focus perks will be tied to it, and am quite curious about how it'll work 

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with this new update, you guys should add a chainsaw weapon into the game, i think it would be amazing considering the heavy attack could be bad ass and if your combo multi is high enough it could even give target a leatherface style execution or maybe even if enemy is close to death on swing proc a bad ass finisher on chance

 latest?cb=20110510205108

image is an idea of what it could look like

9d77327f0693a06048d29cc78a223234413555cf

gif of what the finisher or heavy attack could look like

i know there was plans of the ghoul circular saw was gonna be added but lets be honest a true chainsaw is much more badass then a circular saw :p

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I think that with mods like weeping/bloodrush is make then work somewhat like berserker, making their bufs last for a time, and only increase if e reach a higher number,but not reset.

Also, I think he bonus damage of the multiplier can stay if hey use hits a separate thing of the multiplier for heavy 

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There's only one thing that can determine how good or bad this rework is and worryingly it's the one thing that I saw no clarification on.
Will Blood Rush and Weeping Wounds apply to light attacks?
If they do not then this rework is a massive nerf to the scalability of melee which is what makes it great right now.
If they work then it's a great change.

All that's needed to fix the spin to win meta is to make maiming strike apply only to heavy attacks as opposed to spins and that's that.

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7 hours ago, Rage_Inducer said:

All that's needed to fix the spin to win meta is to make maiming strike apply only to heavy attacks as opposed to spins and that's that.

That'd just make a heavy attack meta though, which is just as boring

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hace 14 minutos, Luka-Song dijo:

That'd just make a heavy attack meta though, which is just as boring

Heavy attacks use up all the combo which you build up with light attacks.
No combo means Maiming Strike can't loop 7 chugillion times through Blood Rush any more. You'd get one good hit and that's about it.
Spamming heavy attacks is not viable by design.

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5 hours ago, Rage_Inducer said:

Heavy attacks use up all the combo which you build up with light attacks.
No combo means Maiming Strike can't loop 7 chugillion times through Blood Rush any more. You'd get one good hit and that's about it.
Spamming heavy attacks is not viable by design.

Oh yeah, good point.

If so, I like how that would work.  It'd also be good for adding some strategy with how we'd use heavy attacks.

DE, could we get effects other than damage on heavy attacks as we let our combo counter grow?  Like increased range, speed, buffs, things you can put in the stances or on the weapon, that sort of thing?

I could see REALLY spicing up how we use heavy attacks and adding a bunch of strategy there too.  Even peculiar type effects (on US, not on mobs that vanish in a few seconds, make us glorious) would be great!

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