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Melee: Present and Future goals!


[DE]Rebecca

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The following got me thinking about the whole "spin to win through walls": Sometimes enemies spawn out of bounds, I have seen it happen repeatedly in Corpus Ship (as recent as today a few minutes ago) and Corpus Ice Planet tile sets. Being fissures seems to make it happen more often. And what do I have to do when that happens? I have to hit through walls. Granted, I will often use warframes abilities for that, however sometimes I have a warframe that is not good for that.

Futhermore, this has happened to players. I recently was playing some missions in public, and - as expected - players joined... but one of then spawned out of bound. This was Corpus Ice Planet tile set, and the location where the player spawned reminded me that some enemies sometimes spawn there. (I told that player to use /unstuck however they didn't read the chat until the mission was over, so I don't know if it would have worked).

Thus, I do not think you are ready to take hitting through walls away from us.

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On the other hand, have you considered meditation trough motion? Doing a repetitive movement can be a form of meditation, it frees the mind to wander. Granted, this is not what everybody looks for in warframe, and plenty of us want more challenge (fair challenge), however it is something that I have come to appriaciate in warframe melee combat.

Addendum: I am worried that melee - being the only kind of weapons that continue to scale in long lasting missions - will not longer be effective, with the combo multiplies only working for heavy attacks.

In that order of ideas, I want to suggest - please consider - to have heavy attacks move the combo counter down to the prior multiplier instead of resetting it to zero.

Please, and thank you.

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13 hours ago, -SR-Daddy said:

Did you see the animation they made available?

Umm, yes?

But that's not the only animation possible there, the animation itself can be accelerated, and any number of other things.  'Heavy Attack' and 'This one animation' aren't even vaguely mutually exclusive.  DE's not being pushed into a corner they can't get out of there.

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This started in April. Melee is a fundamental base mechanic of this game along with shooting and the movement system. We need a new workshop post with what's being done.

Beyond that, I'll just say what I've been saying this whole time. Melee 3.0 was announced under the guise of Maiming Strike being a problem. However, there is not ONE sentence or any word from DE that will do anything to change Maiming or slide attacks. If you can find one, please, @ me and copy it into the post. 

Instead, the whole thing was focused on the combo counter and Blood Rush. And those changes are nerfs. Bloodrush not applying to your normal attacks, and only working on heavy attacks, which you need to use normal just to run up, just to blow on one movement. Purposely making your economy of actions inefficient.

Unifying all combos to include a hold forward. This is hands down the single worst idea I've run across in two and a half years of playing. It's literally the reason why we all complained about scythes. If you haven't noticed, equip a scythe with the stance, or any stance with a hold forward combo, and go mulch some dudes. You will inadvertently end up spamming it even when you don't want to. Then you have the problem of multiple steps your frame takes during the animation locking you in place. It FEELS bad. Because it's slow, and it gets you shot, and you end up doing combo's you didn't want to do. That's not a fix, that's adding a problem.

The quickmelee for polearms however, is magnificent. Whenever someone asks what the best stance for them is; quickmelee. Why? Simple. You have 100% freedom of leg movement to adjust your angle of attack at will. THAT's how it should be for all weapons. Not "Let's add this clunky thing that so many people have quietly grumbled about that we just made a scythe that uses heavy blade stances." Fix the problem, don't add it into everything as a feature.

Then there's the "boost" to damage. In the one devstream, Rebecca had a Jat Kittag with all four 90% elementals equipped, allegedly. I say allegedly because when Brozime asked her for a build screenshot, she said she couldn't give him one. For anyone who doesn't know, melee weapons were tweaked to properly register headshots a while back. Hammer stances are full of inherent headshots, to the point where they're my go to Harrow weapon as every other quick melee attack is an overhead. A Jat Kittag with all four elements can easily kill a Kuva Flood level enemy in a single shot, if you aim, somewhat. In that stream though, Reb got stuck in the same combo multiple times, she got stuck in place by that combo multiple times, and she was struggling to kill because of it, ALONG with the damage, which seemed way too low.

Look, I know most people aren't going to notice these things. Right away that is. But if they're suddenly dumped on the playerbase, then you better believe people are going to notice when they go from "Masters of Gun and Blade" to "Masters of Gun and a thing that won't even open a crate properly because enemies were counted as objects." Quite literally a joke I made months ago, that LEGITIMATELY HAPPENED IN GAME. That was only changed after everyone rightfully complained. :facepalm: 

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Still waiting on that dev workshop.

Still have a hard time believing that a 'build it and spend it' combo system would be all that compelling. This isn't a character action game where you're spending multiple hits on a single enemy, juggling them and cashing out a string with a huge hit. It's a game where spaceninjas are flipping around at ultra high speed blowing up entire rooms at once with their weapons, and where enemies start to scale so powerfully that having to take time attacking some of them means you're going to get smeared across the floor like a bug on a windshield.

I see two outcomes: either normal attacks are strong enough and valuable enough so that you don't ever need to drop your combo (and all the benefits that come from it) with a heavy attack, or heavy attacks become necessary, in which case your normal attacks won't do S#&$ against high level enemies, leading you to either being pasted, or taking so long to kill enemies that your team will just pop their head into your room and one-shot the thing you're trying to whittle down. 

I mean, that's speculation on my part, but that's all I have to go on because, again, THE WORKSHOP DETAILING HOW THAT S#&$ IS SUPPOSED TO WORK IS *STILL NOT UP* WHEN IT WAS MENTIONED WEEKS AND WEEKS AGO. Did you end up having to redo the whole system or something?

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DE, do not forget the EFFECTS to attacks

  • Will the charge attacks have the same weight as before? ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kh1-NbXIOY , it felt so satisfying & it comes from your game) 

SatisfiedLeafyBarbet.gif  warframe_gif_2_by_spazznid-d71bbm3.gif

  • Enemies should react a bit more accurate to our hits (otherwise it doesn't have much weight & they feel like actual bullet sponges)....
  • G O R E : the current system needs some tweaks. Not as developed as https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cig-XA07iPw or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpdIXN0DMrQ , but a little more accurate points of amputation, bullet holes on dead enemies & a few other stuff would be welcome. (right now the bodies are dismembered in a specific way & there's the funny plastic looking leg/arm/head popping out of the enemies)

 

In summary :

  • Tweaked hit detection
  • Gore 2.0 with a bit more accuracy
  • Our hits should feel like there's power behind, the blades should feel like they are sharp & can cut through flesh.

Résultat de recherche d'images pour "gore system"  

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if maiming strike is a problem, why not just change it so that the mod gives a chance to dismember body parts while leaving the enemy alive but weakened for example: if they lose an arm they are afflicted with an effect akin to a viral and slash proc and if its their gun arm they can only punch and kick with the remaining limbs, or if its a leg they drop into a downed position where all they can do is crawl and shoot like tenno that go down.

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So... today's devstream:

DnGOxI6WwAAOiyT.jpg:large

I feel this should be talked about.

Melee is vital part of my enjoyment in the game; and it's a reason I started playing the game back in early 2016. The whole lack of informations, and careful tip-toeing is not exactly helpful. Then, seeing those things in the dev-stream - indicate rather huge nerf to certain types of weapons. Now - I get that DE wants to make wide-variety of weapons viable, but I feel it should not be at the cost of some others being nerfed into the oblivion.

Additionally - The whole system being dependant/emphasised on 'heavy' attacks, and likely only focusing on single opponent or two simply will ruin melee, and most people will stop using it, as it won't be viable anymore. This game has us to kill bazillion of enemies, who basically Zerg rush us. With diminishing melee this way, all this is going to accomplish is, people using 'nuke' Warframes, as they'll be the only ones viable. That, I feel, goes contra the current intent - to make more stuff viable, so people can pick their poison, as the saying goes.

I am a melee only player, always has been. Loving the game for its' unique and fun melee in terms of gameplay, but for the goodness-sake, I surely hope the end-result won't be as bleak as it currently seems, for melee overal.

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if u guy say , spin2win is powerful then . . . please look at quick melee on plague kripath , it's really new whole level than spin2win. spin2win is just fast-movement attack without holding in your position, i like that and don't want it to get removed and we don't have any exclusive mod that support slide/slam yet, just only ordinary mods.

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I am still a new player to Warframe, but already a longtime gamer. And I can see that its hard to make melee more interesting than spamming E or spin attacks.I saw some vids of people ppl swinging their weapons at the speed of light (Volt can make it even quicker) and it looked honestly really stupid.

But the way this game is designed with the farming and killing millions of enemies in the most efficient/quickest way possible the beauty of melee is pretty much reduced to being a lawn mower spamming E.

Either way with the heavy attacks, I hope they add heavy charged attacks. Currently not a fan of the Charged attacks (Holding one button/key)

In Nioh you can do charged attacks while holding one button (R1) and then shortly after adding another button. And also if you time it right, you can do a charged attack with a reduced charge time after an attack. Like shown in the GIFs. Besides, please make Iai-quickdraw as the Nikana heavy charged attack, or atleast for Tranquil Cleave stance. The animation is nearly ingame already.

ezgif.com-video-to-gif1.gif

Just needs a charge time when sheathing the sword and a forward lunge when pulling it out.

ezgif.com-optimize.gif

As you see reduced charge time on the follow up iai strikes. And also just a demonstration of what an iai-quickdraw is.

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11 hours ago, CrazyValkyr said:

So... today's devstream:

DnGOxI6WwAAOiyT.jpg:large

I feel this should be talked about.

Melee is vital part of my enjoyment in the game; and it's a reason I started playing the game back in early 2016. The whole lack of informations, and careful tip-toeing is not exactly helpful. Then, seeing those things in the dev-stream - indicate rather huge nerf to certain types of weapons. Now - I get that DE wants to make wide-variety of weapons viable, but I feel it should not be at the cost of some others being nerfed into the oblivion.

Additionally - The whole system being dependant/emphasised on 'heavy' attacks, and likely only focusing on single opponent or two simply will ruin melee, and most people will stop using it, as it won't be viable anymore. This game has us to kill bazillion of enemies, who basically Zerg rush us. With diminishing melee this way, all this is going to accomplish is, people using 'nuke' Warframes, as they'll be the only ones viable. That, I feel, goes contra the current intent - to make more stuff viable, so people can pick their poison, as the saying goes.

I am a melee only player, always has been. Loving the game for its' unique and fun melee in terms of gameplay, but for the goodness-sake, I surely hope the end-result won't be as bleak as it currently seems, for melee overal.

That has me worried. Does that mean normal attacks will only affect the closest enemy and will not kill enemies behind them even if they´re close enough?

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14 hours ago, CrazyValkyr said:

So... today's devstream:

DnGOxI6WwAAOiyT.jpg:large

I feel this should be talked about.

Melee is vital part of my enjoyment in the game; and it's a reason I started playing the game back in early 2016. The whole lack of informations, and careful tip-toeing is not exactly helpful. Then, seeing those things in the dev-stream - indicate rather huge nerf to certain types of weapons. Now - I get that DE wants to make wide-variety of weapons viable, but I feel it should not be at the cost of some others being nerfed into the oblivion.

Additionally - The whole system being dependant/emphasised on 'heavy' attacks, and likely only focusing on single opponent or two simply will ruin melee, and most people will stop using it, as it won't be viable anymore. This game has us to kill bazillion of enemies, who basically Zerg rush us. With diminishing melee this way, all this is going to accomplish is, people using 'nuke' Warframes, as they'll be the only ones viable. That, I feel, goes contra the current intent - to make more stuff viable, so people can pick their poison, as the saying goes.

I am a melee only player, always has been. Loving the game for its' unique and fun melee in terms of gameplay, but for the goodness-sake, I surely hope the end-result won't be as bleak as it currently seems, for melee overal.

this is terrifying... please DE dont ruin melee... this new fetish for everytihg being focused on "heavy attacks" is really really not sounding enjoyable

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16 hours ago, CrazyValkyr said:

So... today's devstream:

DnGOxI6WwAAOiyT.jpg:large

I feel this should be talked about.

To me this change looks good and it really bothers me when people can't see the possibilities this opens up. Base range on weapons can and likely will be adjusted to compensate for this change. Short range weapons will end up benefiting more from range mods while longer range weapons could lose very little of the potential range they have now when modded. Also, there are quite a few weapons in the game now that made specifically to cleave multiple enemies, like Gram for instance, so I doubt that those weapons are going to lose that functionality.

What makes this exciting for me is that it will almost definitely change the meta game which has for many players become super stale. Meta shifting updates are what keep a game feeling fresh and alive, in my opinion. It's strange that there aren't a lot of people here on the forums talking about how much they're looking forward to Melee 3.0 right. Insert vocal minority memes here. If nothing else it will give people something new to complain about 🙂 

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For nikanas can we get a battle ready stance that keeps the blade unsheathed? I feel that would better fit the games style because in reality you wouldn't want to re-sheathe your sword every time you finished killing an enemy. So can we like change decisive judgment to have to blade held out to the side and change the stance movements slightly?

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12 hours ago, (PS4)jman10089 said:

For nikanas can we get a battle ready stance that keeps the blade unsheathed? I feel that would better fit the games style because in reality you wouldn't want to re-sheathe your sword every time you finished killing an enemy. So can we like change decisive judgment to have to blade held out to the side and change the stance movements slightly?

I could totally go for at least having a different stance for Nikana that allow us to wield the weapon in a more active martial manner instead of the quick single stroke.

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Just now, (PS4)jman10089 said:

Thats why they field test it on pc first so consoles don't have to worry about it. Thank you for your sacrifice.

the annoying part will probably include attacks not opening boxes and attacks getting stuck and deleted completely in everything in closed spaces

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