Nidus vs Oberon: Why Nidus Needs A Bit Of Change

[NezuHimeSama]

9 hours ago, SenorClipClop said:

The picture you posted above this literally shows you that Renewal has a range of 25 metres. I'm not sure if you're wording is off or you're recalling old Renewal which did have infinite Range (though wasn't as good), but you might wanna fix this.

Doesn't renewel have infinite lasting range on targets, and only limited initial casting range?

Whereas before it had an actual projectile that had to travel to and heal individual targets, and could even never reach a target that was too far away if it was canceled before getting there.

[MirageKnight]

10 hours ago, SenorClipClop said:

The picture you posted above this literally shows you that Renewal has a range of 25 metres

If you're referring to the "pickup" zone for Renewal, that's true. Once you've picked it up though, Renewal stays in effect regardless of range - so long as you don't use Archwing / Sharkwing or run into a Nullifier and Oberon can keep the ability up.

5 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

I did say puncture procs though...

You did? My apologies then!

[MirageKnight]

7 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Doesn't renewel have infinite lasting range on targets, and only limited initial casting range?

Yup - see my post above.

[SenorClipClop]

1 hour ago, MirageKnight said:

If you're referring to the "pickup" zone for Renewal, that's true. Once you've picked it up though, Renewal stays in effect regardless of range - so long as you don't use Archwing / Sharkwing or run into a Nullifier and Oberon can keep the ability up.

You are correct.

[Pizzarugi]

On 2018-05-15 at 10:31 PM, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

Nidus is a selfish frame.  His abilities benefit him over his allies for a reason.

I wouldn't necessarily say he's a selfish frame. I see him more as a competitive frame. Selfishness implies everything about him only benefits himself and not the team.

His parasitic link provides a multiplicative power strength buff to a teammate and himself, making both of their abilities be far more effective. 50%+ more power strength isn't something to scoff at. Everyone also knows about the damage mitigation on enemies which makes him great for defending a point.

While the larva is to help group enemies up to build stacks, it still eliminates enemies from being a threat as it still provides CC. At the end of the day, so long as that level 100+ Corpus Tech Crewman isn't able to fire his gun, the larva ball is doing its job regardless of the caster's purpose.

Also, while the healing of his Ravenous garden isn't all that strong compared to dedicated healers like Trinity or Oberon, it's still the best option a team has if they have neither. 50+ healing/second may not be much, but it only costs 3 mutation stacks to cast which is easy for any Nidus to get if they're good at playing him. Meanwhile, Oberon's energy plummets through the floor if he has to heal his teammates for any length of time, god help him if one of them is a Nekros with an entourage of shadows.

In regards to the OP, I say Nidus doesn't need a buff. He's not a dedicated healer, he's a DPS caster and a tank which he is darn good at, the healing is a small bonus.

Edited May 17, 2018 by Pizzarugi

[KnightCole]

Lol, Oberon is a better healer?  Well, no S#&$?  Hes a supporting hybrid frame.  He has damage, but its not even remotely close to Nidus, and he has healing, but its not even remotely close to as good as Trinity.  He has AoE but its not as good as other dedicated AoE frames.

Yeah, Oberon is fine.  Nidus isnt meant to be a full on healer.  Oberon's heal is good, but its nothing amazing.  It will help your group stay alive, its sustained and infinite range if you will, but it also chews into his ability to use other abilities and if you get a nekros on your team, your fked completely.  It also loses out in it's effectiveness in later stages of the game, where it gets completely negated due to the damage spikes.  If anything, I think Oberon's heal could use a slight buff in it's amount.  Ive got 254% power str and only get like 105/s or something. 

Oberon is a good frame, needs nerfs?  naw....but that could just be cuz I lubs my Oberon.

Nidus's thing is dealing assinine amounts of damage.  I went into my only 99 minute survival and had a Nidus steady nuking entire rooms up to the 99 minute mark.....so what if he cant heal that well....

Edited May 17, 2018 by KnightCole

[BeardyKyle]

On ‎2018‎-‎05‎-‎17 at 7:15 PM, KnightCole said:

Lol, Oberon is a better healer?  Well, no S#&$?  Hes a supporting hybrid frame.  He has damage, but its not even remotely close to Nidus, and he has healing, but its not even remotely close to as good as Trinity.  He has AoE but its not as good as other dedicated AoE frames.

Yeah, Oberon is fine.  Nidus isnt meant to be a full on healer.  Oberon's heal is good, but its nothing amazing.  It will help your group stay alive, its sustained and infinite range if you will, but it also chews into his ability to use other abilities and if you get a nekros on your team, your fked completely.  It also loses out in it's effectiveness in later stages of the game, where it gets completely negated due to the damage spikes.  If anything, I think Oberon's heal could use a slight buff in it's amount.  Ive got 254% power str and only get like 105/s or something. 

Oberon is a good frame, needs nerfs?  naw....but that could just be cuz I lubs my Oberon.

Nidus's thing is dealing assinine amounts of damage.  I went into my only 99 minute survival and had a Nidus steady nuking entire rooms up to the 99 minute mark.....so what if he cant heal that well....

Came to derail this thread into a oberon buff thread. Like you said he's decent at healing and that falls off at higher levels and damage wise, he terrible. 

sure he can strip armor but you have to build perfectly to get it done without spamming 4.

i think he should get a counter similar to nidus where when he inflicts a rad proc with his 1 or 2 the counter stack increases, then casting 3 or 4 drains some of the stack but increases both the armor and damage of those abilities. idea being to let him scale properly.

 

 

[Seele]

Y'all best not be hating on my boy.

There is no one specific thing Oberon is best at, that is true. Nidus is probably the absolute best frame for endless content, certainly for soloing endless content. But Oberon can do literally anything adequately enough. There is no content where Oberon is bad, but there's always a frame that would be better for the very specific thing he's doing at any given time. So, in missions where you aren't doing the same exact thing over and over, Oberon is quite handy. His versatility is his strength.

I can do virtually everything I need or want to do with Oberon and that saves me having to do quick-change artistry in the foundry. I pretty much only ever switch to Nekros when a friend needs orokin cells or argon crystals.

To more directly address the OP, I understand your concerns, but Nidus and Oberon are both fine and are doing what they need to do adequately.

[KochDerFrettchen]

...Why? The focused comparison of numbers is meaningless.  Nidus is incredibly beefy as-is :v

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

8 hours ago, KochDerFrettchen said:

...Why? The focused comparison of numbers is meaningless.  Nidus is incredibly beefy as-is :v

And even saying this is an understatement. When people say Nidus is super beefy... 


I don't see many warframes that are this Beefy. You could call him the Baron of Beef Dip. 

Edited May 23, 2018 by (PS4)UltraKardas

[MrTitan123]

28 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

And even saying this is an understatement. When people say Nidus is super beefy... 


I don't see many warframes that are this Beefy. You could call him the Baron of Beef Dip. 

Okay. One: Praise Nidus.

Two: HOW THE F*CK ARE YOU EVEN ALIVE AT THAT POINT?!?!

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

On 2018-05-16 at 2:31 AM, Kel_Silonius said:

no it's not. my man i killed and captured 1002 Eidolons in total, you can just check my stats to see and here is the deal. Harrow and Oberon both have a rather questionable value when it comes to hunts. Trinity is far more efficient than both of these frames combined. Because Harrow can only do damage and proc prevention. Oberon can only prevent status proc from wave and status electricity procs on Hydralyst. Both of which is rather meh and Trinity just can throw a single blessing to solve all possible problems. The best result i had is 10 captures and 1 kill of Eidolons during a single night was in a party of Rhino, x2 Volts and Trinity and we killed last Eidolon only because lures vanished at dawn.

I would say that Oberon needs a lot of love and rework because i honestly fail to see any use for this frame.

You must be lying. There's absolutely no way you could be this ignorant to the uses of a Frame and have so many Eidolon captures. You're a new player, you must be!

Oberon can give an instant revive every 90 second with full health regen.

Massive heal over time + armor bonus.

Status immunity.

Like... hello???

[TastyTaro]

19 минут назад, (PS4)ArtPrince17 сказал:

Like... hello???

meanwhile 11 captures with Rhino, Trinity, Volt and Harrow(zenurik for some reason).

Let me get something clear for you guys. Eidolon fight rotates around killing its shield. Efficiency of shield killing comes from amps and focus schools, volt's shield also help A LOT. What is the reason for me to have a Harrow when i use nullifiers? what is the purpose of its crit buff when 1-2 shot any part of Eidolon with my Rhino? Moving on - Oberon. "Massive heal over time" is a meanigless gimmick in comparisson with blessing, armor buff is irrelevant because 95% of the time you fight Eidolon with an operator. Revive? what if i just don't die? m?

At the same time both Harrow and Oberon do not have any kind of powers which would help with killing of Eidolon's shield, meaning - they are USELESS.

Edited May 23, 2018 by Kel_Silonius

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

1 hour ago, MrTitan123 said:

Okay. One: Praise Nidus.

Two: HOW THE F*CK ARE YOU EVEN ALIVE AT THAT POINT?!?!

To answer your question. Praise Nidus!

To really answer your question,  Parasitic Link gives like 95% damage reduction, on top of the Damage reduction Nidus already gets from his armor. I think my build had around a total of 97+% damage reduction? (If my math is correct ish....) Im pretty sure the 300 damage you see, is how much the level 600 ancient hit me for after the damage reduction. His passive that literally stops death doesn't hurt either. 

So the 49 hp per second Nidus gets from his ultimate has a 97% damage reduction then turns into something like 1600 effective health. 

(Now that I think about it. Making Nidus' ultimate heal for more, might make him broken more Broken. As if he needed to be any stronger of a solo frame lol.)

[MrTitan123]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

To answer your question. Praise Nidus!

To really answer your question,  Parasitic Link gives like 95% damage reduction, on top of the Damage reduction Nidus already gets from his armor. I think my build had around a total of 97+% damage reduction? (If my math is correct ish....) Im pretty sure the 300 damage you see, is how much the level 600 ancient hit me for after the damage reduction. His passive that literally stops death doesn't hurt either. 

So the 49 hp per second Nidus gets from his ultimate has a 97% damage reduction then turns into something like 1600 effective health. 

(Now that I think about it. Making Nidus' ultimate heal for more, might make him broken more Broken. As if he needed to be any stronger of a solo frame lol.)

I knew that link is an amazing tanking ability, but what I really meant was how in the hell you survived all that time. Besides undying, anyway. I’m well aware of how powerful Nidus is and can be, but surviving to level 500+?! The hell are you doing?

[Birdframe_Prime]

On 2018-05-15 at 10:36 PM, GnarlsDarkley said:

10 energy/second per target with 100% Duration and 175% Efficiency

Well there's your problem... You've completely done your maths wrong ^^

Also, who doesn't put positive Duration on Oberon? That's just weird... I'm not trying to come off as condescending, I'm out to help you here.

Oberon's energy cost to have Renewal active is 2 per second, and then if an ally or himself is injured it goes up per player, at base, for 3 energy per second, meaning it goes from 2 energy per second to maintain it up to 5 energy per second. At Neutral Efficiency and Duration, Renewal can cost 14 energy per second while healing all four squad members.

See, here's some examples; if you put on a Continuity, it drops your base Energy per Second to 1.54, and your drain per healing Ally to 2.31, meaning that your actual total at all four party members being healed is actually 10.78. 11 per second down from 14. But if you put on, say, a Primed Continuity and an Augur Message for +79% Duration, it drops your base cost to 1.12 and the per-ally to 1.68 for a total max cost of 7.84. Or 8 energy per second down from 14 without a single Efficiency mod in sight.

How about... Primed Continuity, Augur Message and a Streamline? Cost per second base goes down to 0.78, per ally down to 1.17, total of 5.46. That's 5.5 energy per second if all four players are injured.

Now to your statement of having Neutral Duration and Max Efficiency... you said 10 per second? Okay, let's do the maths; that would be 0.5 per second base, and 0.75 per affected team member. Far from being 10 per second, it's 3.5 Total. Max.

Even if you're then healing four Pets, that's a grand total of 6.5 energy per second with that option. And if you actually build for positive Duration you even cut that down further. The only time you'll come close to 10 energy per second with that build is if you're healing all allies, all pets and four Eidolon Lures on the plains (9.5 energy per second), at which point you're at the outside edge of what that frame is supposed to be able to do for healing.

Unfortunately, that's also pretty much the cap for Oberon, as far as I've seen, getting better Efficiency or Duration doesn't actually seem to help, so try for a Primed Continuity, Constitution, Rank 3 Fleeting Expertise and a Streamline, this gives you that cap of 0.5 per second base with 0.75 per ally, doesn't gimp your other abilities because you've got +40% Duration and +70% Efficiency, and still leaves you with four slots and an Exilus to build anything else in, like Range, Strength or Augments. You could drop in a simple Intensify, Stretch, Vitality and Power Drift, coupled with a Hunter Adrenaline to keep your energy up...

It's a 1 Forma build on Oberon Prime, with Growing Power as your Aura you'll usually have around +70% power strength, +45% Range, +70% Efficiency and +43% Duration, which is pretty well balanced for a frame like Oberon. Swap out things as you like, the Fleeting Expertise coming out almost balances out for your Renewal, it still makes it cost more, but you're definitely still in good Efficiency range for it, plus it means that your Hallowed Ground lasts longer, and you can have space for an Augment.

I hope that helps with your build there ^^

[Bl00dRedRage]

On 2018-05-15 at 3:21 PM, Max7238 said:

When I play a frame aside from Frost, it's to have a different flavor of support.

Well there you go, Nidus is not meant to function the same as Oberon.

[traybong111]

5 hours ago, Kel_Silonius said:

meanwhile 11 captures with Rhino, Trinity, Volt and Harrow(zenurik for some reason).

Let me get something clear for you guys. Eidolon fight rotates around killing its shield. Efficiency of shield killing comes from amps and focus schools, volt's shield also help A LOT. What is the reason for me to have a Harrow when i use nullifiers? what is the purpose of its crit buff when 1-2 shot any part of Eidolon with my Rhino? Moving on - Oberon. "Massive heal over time" is a meanigless gimmick in comparisson with blessing, armor buff is irrelevant because 95% of the time you fight Eidolon with an operator. Revive? what if i just don't die? m?

At the same time both Harrow and Oberon do not have any kind of powers which would help with killing of Eidolon's shield, meaning - they are USELESS.

1000 captures and you still don't know you just assign VS charge to each member for gary and harry to 2-shot their initial full shield. USELESS. 

In a meta 5x3 capture party there's very little room for other frames, but that's like saying because Oberon can't go 10 hours in Survival like Ivara/Octavia/etc he's useless. Which is a very...gullible way of looking at things. Warframe meta is all kinds of busted, that's why people more experienced and knowledgeable than you tend to avoid using the meta as the sole standard of judging a frame. 

We all go through the anything outside of meta is useless phase. You'll grow out of it someday. 

[TastyTaro]

1 час назад, traybong111 сказал:

harry to 2-shot their initial full shield.

it's a oneshot of a shield and a limb. to be more specific a knee. because VS under unairu wisp which comes through a shield is killing both shield and a limb in a single strike. So a single player is killing two parts of eidolon body with 2 VS.

1 час назад, traybong111 сказал:

the meta as the sole standard of judging a frame. 

it's not about meta, it's about a frames which have nothing to offer to the task at hand.

[-.SP.-G43riel]

1 hour ago, Kel_Silonius said:

it's not about meta, it's about a frames which have nothing to offer to the task at hand.

what task? NIdus is not meant to be support, you can't complain that he is a bad support when he was NOT meant for that as good as other support frame.  His task is other

pick another frame, one meant for support, if thats what YOU want to do

Edited May 23, 2018 by -.SP.-G43riel

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

16 hours ago, MrTitan123 said:

I knew that link is an amazing tanking ability, but what I really meant was how in the hell you survived all that time. Besides undying, anyway. I’m well aware of how powerful Nidus is and can be, but surviving to level 500+?! The hell are you doing?

Basically I built stacks at first. With 100 stacks my first ability did about 40k damage per enemy hit. With Parasitic link on an enemy it spawns another wave, so basically doubles the damage. That with my (way too forma-ed) Tigris Prime lasted me quite a while. Anything that Virulence didn't kill (Like disruptors) My tigris would, and vice-versa. Around... level 400 or so, enemies became so bullet spongey that the best way to kill them was use larva to pull them all together, and apply radiation/viral to all of them with a status proc - punch through arca pistol. Viral cutting enemies health in half and radiation getting them to self damage later on was the only real way I dealt with them at that point. 

At level 600, It was pretty much at a stalemate. I couldn't kill them anymore, and they still couldnt kill me. Thats going to be my personal best for a long, long time. 

[-.SP.-G43riel]

17 hours ago, Kel_Silonius said:

At the same time both Harrow and Oberon do not have any kind of powers which would help with killing of Eidolon's shield, meaning - they are USELESS.

this statement just shows how much you still need to learn before trying to even call both Harrow and Oberon useless, this talk is over 

oh look at that

you do need to learn

Edited May 24, 2018 by -.SP.-G43riel

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

22 hours ago, Kel_Silonius said:

At the same time both Harrow and Oberon do not have any kind of powers which would help with killing of Eidolon's shield, meaning - they are USELESS.

So apparently being useless to your specific team during Eidolon hunts mean that they're useless throughout the entire game. That's great logic bud...