Frame Genders?

[Synpai]

If you've not done all of the cinematic quests + octavia's anthem look away.

Spoiler

2 hours ago, Marthrym said:

Frames are built, not born.

Actually they're kinda both built and born, no? 

To clarify, having people select frames gender gets a big no from me. As to whether frames have gender...is different. I have to trust the devs and say they do.

If a mannequin had a conscious it could then define its gender if it so chose.

2 hours ago, Marthrym said:

Saryn isn't a "she", she's the representation of a "she".

Warframes are a bit more than just object. So while biologically she may lack the functions, it's possible for her to identify as she appears although she may lack the function.

Much like cephalons may identify with their original genders although they no longer have bodies. In fact, Cephalons do have genders as Hunhow and Suda reference one another in Octavia's anthem by gender. http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Hunhow/Quotes

 

I hope that the devs tell us this knowing what's to come as there are instances where gender is defined by the audience, due to voice/appearance such as HAL (2001: A Space Odyssey) and Chappie although it may not be so. It's complicated, but that's my 10 cents on the matter. 

 

Edited May 16, 2018 by Synpai

[Tzolkat]

3 hours ago, GLoRToR said:

So we have the operator, whose gender we can choose.

Wouldn't it be cool to have that affect the gender of your frames?

Male embers, female rhinos running around?

I'd love this.

I actually want my operator's gender to stay separate from the warframe they control.

[Marthrym]

56 minutes ago, Synpai said:

If you've not done all of the cinematic quests + octavia's anthem look away.

  Hide contents

Actually they're kinda both built and born, no? 

To clarify, having people select frames gender gets a big no from me. As to whether frames have gender...is different. I have to trust the devs and say they do.

If a mannequin had a conscious it could then define its gender if it so chose.

Warframes are a bit more than just object. So while biologically she may lack the functions, it's possible for her to identify as she appears although she may lack the function.

Much like cephalons may identify with their original genders although they no longer have bodies. In fact, Cephalons do have genders as Hunhow and Suda reference one another in Octavia's anthem by gender. http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Hunhow/Quotes

 

I hope that the devs tell us this knowing what's to come as there are instances where gender is defined by the audience, due to voice/appearance such as HAL (2001: A Space Odyssey) and Chappie although it may not be so. It's complicated, but that's my 10 cents on the matter. 

 

They're grown more than born really. And by born I mean the way animals and humans are, of course.

The devs never said once frames did have proper genders, any sense of self or any form of conscience, so from that postulate one can so far only conclude that they're not gendered people, they're just bio-mechanical drones. I have never seen a drone claiming they were male or female. I have never seen a drone claim anything.

If a mannequin had a consciousness, it probably wouldn't know nor care about gender. It'd probably be far too busy with other more immediate concerns, like how it came to become a conscious being. Or maybe it'd turn into a terminator, don't know, don't care, because that's a false equivalency. If I followed you down that rabbit hole we could argue about just any inanimate object hypothetically gaining consciousness and claiming they're male or female, even though they don't have any genitals or sexual characteristics, and more importantly, any notion or experience of what genders and gender roles are, anything that they could relate to to give them any idea or consideration about what "gender" means in the first place. I don't think they would or could care about that.

Frames are only different in the sense that they are not inanimate per se, they're bio-mechanical, technically speaking they're "alive", or animate rather. They do present some form of sexual dimorphism. Yet they don't have a conscience. The operators are that conscience. They can't "identify" as anything, let alone male or female, because they don't have the one necessary thing to be able to do any of that : a conscience. WE can choose to consider them as male or female though, because we have a conscience and the ability to identify their secondary sexual charateristics based on our own experience of what these mean. But that's only our interpretation, our choice. Not theirs.

Cephalons are an entirely different thing. Again, false equivalency. Cephalons ARE conscious. They CAN identify as whatever they may care. Because they have the ABILITY to do so. Frames do NOT. They're not conscious. Cephalons don't have genders so much as they have gender identities. They know and understand what these concepts are, and identify as either male or female, all that without a physical form with primary and secondary sexual characteristics.

Now if we could get lore indicating that frames do have, or at least used to have a conscience of their own, one intelligent enough to recognize, understand and assume gender identities, then of course it would change things.

Edited May 16, 2018 by Marthrym

[NightBlitz]

not gonna happen, a handful of players might make threads for it, but not nearly enough to make it worthwhile.

simply put: it'd take more time and money than its worth

[LightningsVengance]

3 hours ago, GLoRToR said:

So we have the operator, whose gender we can choose.

 

it's what's on the inside that counts. Like squishy organs that take damage on fall and a voice that makes me laugh when I hear it say some lines. (i like the voices, but there will always be one)

[-.SP.-G43riel]

Oh look this old topic again...

*sighs* people should learn to use the "search" option before posting same old same old topics over and over...

[Synpai]

2 hours ago, Marthrym said:

Now if we could get lore indicating that frames do have, or at least used to have a conscience of their own, one intelligent enough to recognize, understand and assume gender identities, then of course it would change things.

Spoiler

I think we'll have to hold off on the How Warframes are made until the Sacrifice or something. I'm not disagreeing, just needs more information.

To relate Warframes to drones is an understatement in my opinion. 😛 to be fair we don't quite live in science fiction (or have made advances as such). Toasters could have feelings. Emphasis on could, extremely unlikely; current evidence doesn't support these claims, so I agree not worth going further but the concept itself bears some fruit about our anthropocentric nature.

 I wasn't saying that an inanimate object WOULD care about gender roles, just that it could. Did you just assume that it would be concerned with how it gained consciousness!? Joking, but that's what it felt like you did to me. 

Fair enough, although they've shown sentience, they have not necessarily shown consciousness, but if I'm not mistaken they share a link with the infested hive mind (I wont begin to even attempt to fathom how infested communicate to operators through Warframes).

 

In your example, if the Warframes are drones, how are the Operators the consciousness for the Warframe?

 

As all infestation is "living" and linked to some extent; don't they share linked consciousness? (TO CLARIFY I'M NOT USING THIS AS PROOF TO SAY WARFRAMES HAVE A CONSCIOUSNESS, I'M JUST TYPING THOUGHTS)

Regardless of that, we've seen consciousness (actually two) merge with a warframe (Rell and the man in the wall). Now sure it stands to argue that technically it's not directly the consciousness of the Warframe itself, but that's just...a can of worms too big for this forum post.

 

I agree we need more information before having a concrete answer; But I'm not leaning toward them being drones with what I've seen so far.

 

[(XBOX)BigLithuanian]

A lot of people have brought up the question do Warframes have consciousness and not that I support gender swap or however the consciousness discussion started but does anyone remember The New Strange quest? Remember how that Chroma was acting independently or at least seemed to act that way and unless DE has said anything otherwise I will continue to think that Warframes,if left alone for some time, can become independent but I'm not sure about other lore surrounding the New Strange quest

Edited May 17, 2018 by (XB1)BigLithuanian

[GLoRToR]

Could just be skins, an option for people who like that sort of thing. I see a lot of people who don't even customise because they don't care for it, and there is fashionframe so you know,

 

People like things. Often different things than you do. 
 

If you're older than 10 and haven't figured this one out, please stop being mad at people and grow up.
Thank you.

[(XBOX)BigLithuanian]

4 hours ago, GLoRToR said:

Could just be skins, an option for people who like that sort of thing. I see a lot of people who don't even customise because they don't care for it, and there is fashionframe so you know,

 

People like things. Often different things than you do. 
 

If you're older than 10 and haven't figured this one out, please stop being mad at people and grow up.
Thank you.

DE has final say and they have said they don't want to do Genderswap skins! This is DEs game after all. 

Edited May 17, 2018 by (XB1)BigLithuanian

[(XBOX)weedyodaa]

Oh my goodness, I've seen faaar too many of these threads. NO. Warframes are not something you can change to a female on demand. It doesn't work like that. 

[Himynameistravis]

Aren't frames just wireless tech golems anyways? 

I thought this might be a good idea as well, but this would require ALOT of modeling work and concept art all over again, not to mention all the skins and helmets already in place. 

The work isn't worth the reward on a development level at this point. 

That's my 2 cents.

[Katinka]

12 hours ago, (XB1)BigLithuanian said:

DE has final say and they have said they don't want to do Genderswap skins!

Yeah, and DE never change their mind on anything.  No scarves! No pets! Definitely no cats!  Oh wait, they changed their minds, we have all those now...

[Issxi]

I like to think the Warframes use to be Orokin, infected with the Technocyte virus and "grown" into a suit or catalyst, brainwashed in the process to do the bidding of the Tenno. So each Warframe would be a representation of who they were post-infection hence their personalized animations and mannerisms.

 

So I'll say no to the ability to genderbend Warframes. Stick to the R34 world if you are into that.

 

But that is just me.

Edited May 18, 2018 by Xylyssa

[broderbr]

Yep... a loooot of work, trust me (im a prog+designer, so i have some idea about it).
I think that's the main reason...  

But some warframes have a double/gender lol... looks like male or female. If change the colors, skins, etc, have a good gender

:D

Cheer Tennos !!!   \o/

[Ricknir]

If there is established lore referring to them being of male or female origin, which I honestly can't recall then no it wouldn't be good.

Also will be brutally honest after the last couple of days in reference to another love of mine SW, which I wouldn't get into as its off topic.

I would be gone. Plain and simple. Don't care what anyone calls me.       

[SilverRook]

Stop making everything about gender ffs

 

Go find a new agenda to push.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

On 05/16/2018 at 10:54 AM, Katinka said:

The "Male Helmet Pack", "Female Helmet Pack" & "Female Warframe Pack" suggest they do.

Also, DE originally planned to do make and female for every frame, then decide not to to save time, then publicly stated as much, then 'ummm'ed, 'errr'ed and 'maybe down the line, who knows' the next time it came up.  The only barrier is player interest so we shouldn't be off-hand shouting down threads that ask for it.  The OP has the right to express their interest in this option and to have that interest considered by DE.  If the topic is so common as tomake you sick of seeing it so often then perhaps that means it's popular enough to be reconsidered.

Opportunity cost. Any time and money spent on this could, and should be spent on other content. No.

[Synpai]

On 2018-05-16 at 8:48 PM, (XB1)BigLithuanian said:

A lot of people have brought up the question do Warframes have consciousness and not that I support gender swap or however the consciousness discussion started but does anyone remember The New Strange quest? Remember how that Chroma was acting independently or at least seemed to act that way and unless DE has said anything otherwise I will continue to think that Warframes,if left alone for some time, can become independent but I'm not sure about other lore surrounding the New Strange quest

A big part of that quest was Simaris' quest to find out WHAT (if anything) was controlling it and due to our action (we never got a choice) to scan it instead of kill it, we never got the answer.

Rell, Harrow, and the Man in the Wall (As I referenced in my previous post) show something different entirely and would support an instance where a Warframe had consciousness (plural).

Plus with the Silver Grove...I'm willing to say more than what we know is plausible.

[Maqabir]

Are we talking gender identity or just Rhino with tits?

To me Warframes are more akin to works of art than people, it's like asking for a male Mona Lisa to be hung up next to the original.

[Synpai]

18 minutes ago, Maqabir said:

Are we talking gender identity or just Rhino with tits?

To me Warframes are more akin to works of art than people, it's like asking for a male Mona Lisa to be hung up next to the original.

OP is asking for Female [Male Frame] and Male [Female Frame] options. (On Topic)

Which lead to a complex discussion of lore to support/refute @xXDeadsinxX in his claim that "Warframes don't even have genders in the lore" (My curiosity and opinion derailing the thread)

[Cleopatranikea]

Money talks dog barks. If they have benefit to do this they will find a way to do this and that is not that drastically huge work to do the models because they basically have already the models but they can copy and sligthly change it. What is problematic is the animating and redo some stuffs because if I am right you cannot copy paste the animations with the rigged model. I like the idea to have both male and female valkyr and I also liked the ash female concept *sad face* that not happend but who knows. Nothing is set in stone and everything can be changed and if something needs then it will change faster. currently it is just a dream so just grab a popcorn and watch the match.

[rune_me]

2 hours ago, Synpai said:

Which lead to a complex discussion of lore to support/refute @xXDeadsinxX in his claim that "Warframes don't even have genders in the lore" (My curiosity and opinion derailing the thread)

I don't think lore is the issue. If DE really wanted it they could just retcon gender swaps into the story as they always does. I think it has more to do with resources and the enormous amount of work it would take to implement it. 

[(XBOX)BigLithuanian]

6 minutes ago, rune_me said:

I don't think lore is the issue. 

It partially is, I don't think the Orokin created opposite gender versions for each frame in the lore. 

Please note I am not meaning to disrespect you or anything like that

[rune_me]

Just now, (XB1)BigLithuanian said:

It partially is, I don't think the Orokin created opposite gender versions for each frame in the lore. 

I get that. But if DE really wanted to have gender swapped frames, they could write it into the lore one way or another. I don't think that is what's holding them back. (I could be wrong - I was never that invested in the lore of this game, so I don't know how religiously DE sticks to it)