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[Update 22.20.0] Virtual Cursor Feedback MEGATHREAD - Share Videos Where Possible!


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Hi

Im steam controller user. Now with virtual cursor i cant use UI as good as before becaus now i should aim each UI element with stick. You know, this is sucks.

It could be better if i can switch to old system. Or maybe at least leave navigation in menu as it was before. Or maybe some aim assist in menu.

Now looks like old system was much better, but i think that virtual cursor is a part of your feauture new UI so, hope it will work better.

 

 

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I use a controller with an integrated touchpad that I have bound as a mouse, that I used to navigate menus. I did have the game options set to use M+KB tags for everything, so I didn't have the convenient Arsenal hotkeys that most people used, but the touchpad worked well enough for that. It was a far more seamless UI than what this 'update' added, even if I ignore the fact my controls (that I've used for 200ish hours in this game according to Steam and for about the past 13 years in other games) were also rebound and are unable to be changed, as well as using Square for confirm instead of Cross like it used to be.

Edited by Balthazar699
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Please just revert it back to the way it was before the update. Using a gampad was supposed to remove the need for a curser. The navigation map was fine with this, but not the main pause menu. It was just fine before the update. If they do not want to scrap all the work, at lease give us the option to switch between curser and gamepad navigation methods. 

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Okay, so having used this for a while now: it's awful and I hate it. What used to be a quick, seamless process of (for example) opening the Arsenal, hitting triangle for mods, using the D-pad to page through and switch them in and out has become this laborious trial of a thing where you have to hold down a button and drag the mod sloooooowly into place, maneuver the cursor back to the top part, etc etc. All while knowing there was a much quicker, easier system implemented perfectly fine a few days ago. It's genuinely making me not want to play around with builds because using the UI is such a pain. You have to double-'click' a friend's name to invite them, for god's sake. And what gave DE the idea a virtual cursor was even desirable, it's like, I don't think I've played a single recent PC game with controller support that did things this way rather than direct navigation for controllers and a cursor for the mouse. I'm perplexed!

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3 minutes ago, thefatalsoftness said:

Okay, so having used this for a while now: it's awful and I hate it. What used to be a quick, seamless process of (for example) opening the Arsenal, hitting triangle for mods, using the D-pad to page through and switch them in and out has become this laborious trial of a thing where you have to hold down a button and drag the mod sloooooowly into place, maneuver the cursor back to the top part, etc etc. All while knowing there was a much quicker, easier system implemented perfectly fine a few days ago. It's genuinely making me not want to play around with builds because using the UI is such a pain. You have to double-'click' a friend's name to invite them, for god's sake. And what gave DE the idea a virtual cursor was even desirable, it's like, I don't think I've played a single recent PC game with controller support that did things this way rather than direct navigation for controllers and a cursor for the mouse. I'm perplexed!

This sums things up really well.  The added frustration comes from the fact that two days ago the controller had a fantastic system for navigating all these menus, even though they're complicated.  It's hard to understand what the impetus for these changes was.  I can't believe the people who came up with it have regularly played on PC with a controller. 

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I would not call a cursor that you move with your controller, menus that have no hotkeys, a full controller support. The "thing" we had before this update, i would call a 99% perfect controller support. I was SO HAPPY when you added the controller UI with Xbox/PS4 button prompts some time ago, so we didnt had to use Steams terrible Big Picture Mode anymore, it felt AMAZING and so intuitive, like any other game with full native gamepad support out there. Sorry DE, we dont use a controller to navigate a mouse cursor with it in games 😞 Roll it back please, or make this "seamless transition" UI an Autodetect option, and the Xbox/PS4 options the way it was before. I cant stand navigating menus with this, and fashionframing? Oh, the horrors, i cant even.....

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I always had 'detect controller input' turned off, because pressing a button on the controller when the menu is in PC mode just switches it to controller-mode, without actually doing what it was told. 

 

For example, I'm in my mod-menu and I want to back out a level, so I hit B/O.

Normally this should close the menu or take me back one level, 

Now it switches the menu to show the controller prompts, but doesn't back out. 

Then the game detects that my mouse is still moving, and switches back to Keyboard layout. So I hit B again to close the menu, but again it just switches to the other UI-style. 

Frankly, I don't care which buttons it shows me on the prompts, so long as it does what it's told when I press the button, instead of making me mash over and over.

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The way I see it, I don't mind the left thumbstick moving a virtual cursor on screens that are laid out like grids (i.e. relics screen, mods screen, etc.) but for screens that are primarily vertical lists (start menu, invites, alerts), we should at the very least be able to navigate using the d-pad. We also desperately need those shortcut buttons to come back on the arsenal screen because pointing the virtual cursor over those little buttons using a thumbstick is painful. 

One of the worst things about this update is the lack of consistency and the way it deviates from the way gamers expect a controller to work. For example, when navigating with a controller, the concept of a double-click to select something is completely foreign. When doing a void mission and selecting a relic, I thought the screen was bugged. There was a tip that indicated I should press A to select the relic but it wasn't responding. At first I thought I may have tapped the button too lightly so I pressed it again. Then I pressed it and held it for a second to see if that would register. Eventually, I started mashing the A button out of frustration and realized it was expecting a double-click. When going into the arsenal screens to select a weapon or warframe, it's one button press to select, and another to confirm. The relics screen required one button press to select, and a double button press to confirm. I can't recall any other game requiring a double button press for anything.

With UI design, the goal is usually to get users to the information or functions they want with fewer button presses and clicks, not more. Having to locate a cursor on the screen and move it into the vicinity of the options you want to select before you can even begin to highlight anything tanks users' productivity. Add in a lack of consistency and you have a terrible user experience on your hands. I can't speak for the people that were using both a controller and mouse, but as a primarily controller-based player, I miss the old interface a lot.

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A better controller UI is needed (from the previous version). The new one feels so slow and clunky I now use a mouse and keyboard to navigate menus. I cannot even skip the mission fly in scene by hitting B twice anymore.

 

I do hope that this system has been implemented because it works better with the coming UI changes. 

Edited by krc473
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Virtual Cursor is a Real Annoyance.

This is like switching from cellphone to "tin-can and wire" because the volume button broke on the cellphone in the 80% position. We could still hear...

 

Please just Revert the changes and fill in the missing bindings / scrolling in certain screens.

Numerous players that can tell you from memory where the bindings were not and can make you a list before reverting. Anything to help fix this quickly.

 

When I started 4yrs ago there were highly detailed threads of all the controller problems, workarounds and places needing to be fixed here on the forum.

If you were to make that part of the code accessible from github someone would probably make the needed adjustments very quickly.

If you were to create an api, players would probably develop plugins for all sorts of Human Interface Devices. (VR, google/apple glasses, 3d mice, figure pointer mice, arcade fighter sticks, wacom, touchscreen, midi controllers, voice control) adding something new for the community to tinker on.

Edited by OfPowerOfWant
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The new virtual cursor is a HUGE step backwards. I literally cant mod anything in the arsenal. It shouldnt be this hard when the old UI worked just fine. It takes much more time and effort to move cursors around than the old UIs method. It is slow clunky and inefficient. I cant play the game like this.  Please allow us to toggle the virtual cursor!

 

And the chat text box is broken almsot laughable if it wasnt making me angry. Itsl.like a twisted amalagam of mouse and controller input that has no logic .

Im done with Warframe until all this is sorted out. And I love our game...but this is just bad and TBH i am really pissed.

Edited by Maelthric
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You literally can not customize the controls anymore. 

 

In your effort to “optimize” controller use you broke the one good thing about it. 

 

Thing got me so mad I’m actually posting here, sheesh...

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I don't even use a controller, but my wife does, and she's ticked about it. No doubt you'll be hearing from her shortly on the matter.

Watching her try to navigate the menus with the new system makes my internal quality-checker flinch. Who thought this was a good idea, and why?

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Can we please have some way to revert back to the pre-update UI in the settings? At the very least as an accessibility option? I have a disability that affects how my hands work, and found the old UI much easier to navigate the menus with than the new version. I appreciate your efforts to make the controller UI more streamlined and increase functionality, but this kinda alienates people who chose to use a controller and really appreciated the old UI because it was friendlier to use with conditions that affect hand-eye coordination. 

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another thing that makes this change REALLY AWFUL and slows everything to a crawl, why was removing the face buttons on the arsenal menus necessary? did someone really think that dragging and imprecise cursor and having to click each one manually was faster that just hitting the button for the thing that you want? Pleaaase revert this or add an option to switch back to the old mode, it's really making me not want to play at the moment.

 

unknown.png

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The virtual cursor and transition from keyboard/mouse to controller is far from seamless. The gesture is appreciated but it makes the UI feel awkward for KBM+controller players. Prior to this implementation I could simply hit my "T" key to bring up chat, type something, and get back to the game by hitting esc. Now I have to click on the chat box to use my keyboard, it's a bit less intuitive during combat. Beyond that I often have to hit a button on my controller twice for a yes/no selection to register. Once to switch to virtual cursor mode, and again to actually select the desired option. Prior to the update it took one hit of the A button to say yes or one hit of the B button to say no. Also for some reason A and B  (don't use a Playstation dualshock, so I don't know that config) aren't standardized to A(yes)/B(no) like almost every other game that has controller support. I've gotten X(yes) and B(no) for the Skip Cutscene prompt and X(leave) and Y(stay) for endless missions. Prior to the update this was natively in the A(yes)/B(no) format. I know this is a minor gripe compared to the other stuff but it adds another layer of jank to an already janky implementation. 

It feels as if the console controls were just tacked onto the PC build without thought towards how players that switch between KBM and controller operate. While I can't speak for everyone, I use my keyboard and mouse for menus and chat while I use my controller for gameplay. I also find the automatic changing between controller menu icons and native icons distracting; a way to lock the UI to the default KBM format would be nice. Beyond that an option to disable the virtual cursor altogether would be much appreciated, as it actively hinders how I interact with Warframe which makes me want to play less. I don't enjoy having to adapt to crummy UI implementations when the previous system worked better. It's great that DE considers controller players on PC but this UI change is unintuitive garbage.

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Not a big fan of the cursor, but my concern is why can't I rebind my contoller buttons. :(
Evertime I rebind them and save, they go back to default. I hate the rebind screen with controller pic on it because it limits your binds. So I'd turn off controller with the in-game option (when you could before) then go into contoller rebind menu because the list rebind is alot better and flexible in my opinnion. but cant do that anymore :(

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It really is great to see EDs work to improve the player experience that uses control to play on the PC.
I really enjoyed the transition speed when switching between control, mouse and keyboard during the game. Menu icons change quickly, fluidly and accurately.
I am adapting with the new virtual cursor, but I miss the shortcuts with the buttons in the menus, because they gave a lot of agility in some situations.

I would like to make a note as to how to type text using the computer keyboard together with a control. In my case I use Dualshock 4.

When I open the field to type the messages using the control, then I type my message, I press the ENTER key of the keyboard, but the message is not sent, instead a change occurs in the interface control / mouse + keyboard. Even if you pick up the mouse and click OK, the message is deleted and is not sent. This is very frustrating. The images below have some comments on the case.

HaRrAvR.jpg

UVoxBNR.jpg

Something that I would very much like to have existed is some option to disable the full and dark screen when typing something with the connected control. If the control / mouse + keyboard quick transition already exists then this full, dark screen becomes unnecessary.

It would also be nice if the Dualshock 4 controller was more cost-effective inside the game.

loqwE2c.jpg

I hope the images I posted are visible to read.

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Some observations:

- Seamless transition between controller / KB + mouse is a great feature and should be kept. 

- Virtual cursor is ok for the starchart, but makes no sense in menus (or UI elements with discrete lists of selectable objects in general). There was no reason to remove the D-pad functionality and the shortcut buttons. 

- Dragging and dropping mods with the controller is a nightmare that nobody deserves

 

Overall feels like a step forward and a step back at the same time. I used to play 100% with a controller, but I now find myself using exclusively kb+mouse to navigate the menus. I just can't bother to use the virtual cursor. I can't imagine console players ever being happy with this. Some games like Destiny and No Man's Sky do the "virtual cursor" thing with greater success, because the stuff you do there is much simpler (less clickable elements on the screen, smaller distance between elements etc). I don't think Warframe benefits from that approach.

Also, accessing chat with a controller feels clunky (see previous user post with pics)

 

 

 

 

 

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Woooo boy!!... A lot of unhappy people (myself included), but its not end of days.

My main issue is that the shortcuts are gone for controller. I switched from PS4 to PC, and I stayed with controller, because i breeze through the UI faster (and movement feels better on controller, in my opinion). I don't like the whole hybrid mouse/controller set. Its slow, I have to double check things equipped, and navigation is just weird.

If you can please put an option to toggle this new virtual cursor off would be great.

I'll give the benefit of the doubt that this works infinitely better on the upcoming UI. Anyway, keep up the good work.

Thank you

 

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Seems like DE has a new UX guy which wants to make beautiful UI closing eyes on usability problems. Saw this 4566447643 times

There is one game with same virtual cursor. This game is Destiny... UX in this game is awful, dont copy theyr mistakes. If UX designer desides use virtual cursor on console it means he cant do his work, cuz nothing can be more easier than put some controls on the screen in defferent places and make user be looking for it and reaching them by him self.

I know it hard to make comfortable UI for both M&K and controllers, but you did it onse before. Is new UI worth this pain?

 

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It's #*!%ing awful, who thought it was a good idea to go back to this? It's certainly not an improvement.

The point of using a controller is to not use a mouse, the way it was set up with buttons leading to the different options in the arsenal, and using the D-Pad to go through menus was really nice, with a few bugs like not being able to type in the Loadout/Mod screens but fine overall. Why are we being made to use a crappy inaccurate virtual mouse now if we're trying to play with a controller? Really?

Why this? Who thought this was good? Rollback, stop fixing things that aren't broken, all the previous system needed was slight tweaks in the Loadout screens and a smoother way to type into chat, like, without a dumb unnecessary popup. Christ.

Edited by Guest
Clarification.
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Some people like the new Controller update. A lot more don't, I personally hate it to the point I haven't been playing even half as much as normal. I don't think the feature should be removed. However we should be able to decide if we want to use it. I personally suggest a toggle feature.

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I tried rebinding my ABXY buttons, but while in-mission they still had their default actions.

Also, can we get support for the Nintendo Switch Pro Controller now that Steam supports it. I'm using one and the Power selection menu is messing me up since the ABXY buttons are in different positions than a Steam or XBox controller.

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