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[Update 22.20.0] Virtual Cursor Feedback MEGATHREAD - Share Videos Where Possible!


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Yeah I don't like the new scheme at all either. Just in general is more time consuming and a bit annoying.

Note I'm playing with a XBOX controller

  • I have to press X to conform instead of A for some reason. See no reason to change it.
  • I have to press and hold A to move a mod making it slower
  • Added in extra layer to chat if you're on a controller
  • Harder to customize Octavia Mandachord 
  • Remove the instant button layout of choosing when using the Arsenal. Ex: Y to Upgrade, X to Mod, RT to Appearance

Personal opinion but I really do dislike the cursor mode on controller with no option to change it back. Would be nice to have to option to change the scheme instead of removing it instead.

*This is a copy and paste from another thread I did but thought I should put it here too for them to see just in case*

Edited by Cara360
Still don't know why it has the white background text. Kinda annoying
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On 2018-05-18 at 10:33 AM, HeadOfNights said:

Good lord also please change the confirm button back to X, no idea what was that change meant to do other that mess with people's muscle memory

I'm assuming you guys saying change confirm back to 'X' are using DS4...

Hopefully this doesn't confuse DE because the XB1/360/xinput users had confirm mapped to 'A'. Since this poor choice in update, our confirm was moved to 'X' on the XB1 controller, your equivalent to the Square button. Please be clear guys! We don't want DE getting confused.

Also see my points below from the pc 22.20.03 thread:

Quote

 

The pre-update controller had full UI support for all menus, minus any menu with quantities not allowing you to adjust the numbers with LB/RB. It worked in missions, in all menus, and even the auto-detect which was imperfect still worked. but the important thing was that apart from typing, controllers were near fully independent and the UI prompts were correct (but there were some visual bugs with floating buttons sometimes). This seriously and needlessly ruined that  good support. If this is just to see how we like it, they should have made it toggle-able like the archwing experimental mode.

I've had to play hybrid for a long time, and honestly can't see how you thought that was better than the Shrines controller UI update. At least we didn't have to switch to mouse every time we wanted to use mods and foundry, we could also see which controller buttons did things. Not to mention, the icons were kinda pretty. I don't mind black and white XB1 buttons, but I hate Steam controller layout passionately; it's a sin that it's the default auto-detect layout. Make B/W button an option since it  fits the game, but only make it optional.

I'm glad DE is trying new things with controllers, but that doesn't mean replacing good things with faultier things. Keep the virtual cursor, since it actually works for he most part, and the update's flaws aren't tied directly to the cursor mode itself. But fix the inconvenient and counter-intuitive changes like no d-pad support and missing button prompts in foundry, wrong inputs for chat, etc. 

GIVE US OPTIONS, not replacements for the basic QOL things. UI is important for how players interact with the game world, and I feel like controller users have been put off for a long time by the game cuz of the lack of good support (i know I'm not the only one who almost stopped playing early on because the UI for controllers felt bad). More players than you think judge a game by how well they can casually/easily experience it with a controller on a couch.

PS: You guys saying the game is "literally" unplayable and over-reacting, calm the hell down. Controller support was almost  non existent until recently. It's not in the best shape right now, and I don't enjoy the game as much without the previous version of Auto-detect, but I don't think it's unplayable.

 

 

Edited by Shaloman
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Using Xbox One controller on pc

I liked: Right-stick vertical scrolling in menus, right-stick horizontal scrolling of mods

Didn't like:

- general slowness of using virtual mouse just doing basic things (leave squad, arsenal upgrade & appearance, upgrading relics, hold-to-mod especially)

- no more shorcut buttons (arsenal upgrade, appearance)

- double-tap to confirm relic selection during fissures

- bumpers would bug out. When this happens, have to then use virtual mouse to click on missions/sorties etc tab in navigation menu. Especially bad when ranking-up mods and trading sentient cores for cetus standing (using virtual mouse, those buttons are tiny!)

- in Arsenal Upgrade, the functions of buttons  sometimes won't change in between hovering left-stick over mods and modded item - which means I couldn't remove mods from modded item

It's not "unplayable" but I'm definitely not enjoying playing Warframe now. I prefer the previous controller ui.

Edited by vlh05
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Has there been any official comment on this?  I don't think I've seen a single piece of positive feedback about this new system between here and twitter.  It's sucked the joy out of things I used to love like upgrading, customizing, crafting.  

 

Not to mention if you look at most of these comments, they are from people who registered for this site solely because of how frustrated they are with this change (myself included).  

Edited by HolbrookHen
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Like i said before I'm French customer so all my apologies for my English! 

 

I want to say something about the different types of controllers using by player for my part i use this one 

Xbox-One-Chatpad-top-view.jpg?itok=M6wi1

It's the XBOX Élite controller with MSN chat pad plugs on it.... Its the perfect balance between keyboard and controller play style 

So please keep in mind many players use this type of game pad !

and they absolutely don't need any transitioning systems for play with controllers be cause they already have the best parts of this 2 world 

 

So please add toggle options for bring back on older UI 

First option for turn the virtual cursor ON or OFF in different types of menu

star map on or off 

arsenal on or off 

Foundry on or off

Relic on or off

Another one for the shortcut X, Y, A,B like the old UI on arsenal 

Remove the "X" key for confirmation and back to "A"

And last one for disable theauto transitions between keyboard + mouse and pad configuration when people need to switch or not

 

Edited by highjacker6600
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So I have seen a few other threads on this, but they are kind of bits and pieces or don't mention all the issues I have had.  So I am going add more info here.  I posted it before, but it seems that many of the problems I have faced are here so I hope that posting it here is ok. 

Controllers have been broken for a bit on PC (at least for me).  And the new update kind of adds new challenges.  As a Steam player I used Steam's interface to create the key bindings need for my controller set up.  I have been using my PS4 controller.

*Sounds like those that have used the in game interface for key binds are having issues with resets.  On Steam I haven't had any issues with that.

*When trying to decorate either on the Orbiter or the Dojo the games UI will display the button to press to press.  Half of these don't work so I am forced to remember what the keyboard buttons are (that is why I transition between controller and keyboard).  Some of the controller prompts are wrong or simply don't work at all.

*Same as the above for Captura.

*When starting a mission and going into operator causes the game to kind of become stuck with thinking I want to keep using warframe abilities.  So matter what button is pressed it will activate the corresponding ability.  Meaning if I want to jump I get an ability instead.

*The new UI didn't have a transition from the old one (meaning I never started on keyboard so I have no idea off hand what to press for somethings).  So chat became interesting as I am assuming it was making the controller act as a mouse with key binds, but the old setup would give button prompts.

*I need to quickly tap a button twice to accept missions or various selection in order for the game to acknowledge I did something in menus.  Otherwise it just sits there like I didn't press anything.

*Sometimes when I press a button on the keyboard while using the controller, my active area changes.  

I am not sure if some of this would be fixed with using the in game custom key bindings options as of yet (sounds like they may be broken at the moment).  But basically please at why people are using both.  For some it is just easier to manipulate their warframe, game menus, or is more comfortable.  The problem is the new UI slows things down (which is odd for a fast paced and sometimes time sensitive game).  And while I do understand things change, the changes though it may be easier on the developer end, make it more difficult on the player end.  It is also difficult when the new UI doesn't fix some of the other issues (like the button prompts don't work or are a different button entirely).

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4 hours ago, Regulator-Zero said:

So I have seen a few other threads on this, but they are kind of bits and pieces or don't mention all the issues I have had.  So I am going add more info here.  I posted it before, but it seems that many of the problems I have faced are here so I hope that posting it here is ok. 

Controllers have been broken for a bit on PC (at least for me).  And the new update kind of adds new challenges.  As a Steam player I used Steam's interface to create the key bindings need for my controller set up.  I have been using my PS4 controller.

*Sounds like those that have used the in game interface for key binds are having issues with resets.  On Steam I haven't had any issues with that.

*When trying to decorate either on the Orbiter or the Dojo the games UI will display the button to press to press.  Half of these don't work so I am forced to remember what the keyboard buttons are (that is why I transition between controller and keyboard).  Some of the controller prompts are wrong or simply don't work at all.

*Same as the above for Captura.

*When starting a mission and going into operator causes the game to kind of become stuck with thinking I want to keep using warframe abilities.  So matter what button is pressed it will activate the corresponding ability.  Meaning if I want to jump I get an ability instead.

*The new UI didn't have a transition from the old one (meaning I never started on keyboard so I have no idea off hand what to press for somethings).  So chat became interesting as I am assuming it was making the controller act as a mouse with key binds, but the old setup would give button prompts.

*I need to quickly tap a button twice to accept missions or various selection in order for the game to acknowledge I did something in menus.  Otherwise it just sits there like I didn't press anything.

*Sometimes when I press a button on the keyboard while using the controller, my active area changes.  

I am not sure if some of this would be fixed with using the in game custom key bindings options as of yet (sounds like they may be broken at the moment).  But basically please at why people are using both.  For some it is just easier to manipulate their warframe, game menus, or is more comfortable.  The problem is the new UI slows things down (which is odd for a fast paced and sometimes time sensitive game).  And while I do understand things change, the changes though it may be easier on the developer end, make it more difficult on the player end.  It is also difficult when the new UI doesn't fix some of the other issues (like the button prompts don't work or are a different button entirely).

You barely touched the tip of the iceburg of issues with using steam controller and stream BPM for controller support. Before the Shrines of Eidolon brought good (efficient, functional, reliable)controller support, in game gamepad ui was lazily slapped on without proper button prompts and didn't work in some menus.

Steam BPM was absolute garbage for anyone without steam controller. No vibration, ugly UI, stupid forced on screen keyboard that was slow as hell and obscured the screen, non functional prompts. There were benefits like sharable configs and good level of customization, especially the deadzones. But it broke things in game and even crashed when trying to change operator clothes.

Enter Shrines with autodetect, UI support for steam, DS4, xb1, and xinput pads. It worked, and every menu had proper ui prompts. It was minorly flawed, but felt like a controller should. If you wanted good mouse transition, you should have improved autodetect from last update.

Then enter this update...doesn't address the issues from previous versions of controller ui (lack of deadzone), no deadzones, made steam ui default (still disgusts me), pressing x while in mission results next to navigation forced a mission to start (longstanding issue),d-pad still doesn't do anything, LB/RB can't be used for quantities...changed colored buttons to b/w which means actually having to look instead of glance or use periphery - they're still nice AS AN OPTION.

  • "Fixed controller D-Pad not being able to change Market item quantities.
  • Fixed silly Arsenal rotation when switching from mouse to controller when the mouse is left clicking but hasn't been released before switching.
  • Fixed controller cursor drift if it was moving when you closed the last screen.
  • Fixed discrepancies when transitioning from mouse/keyboard to cursor while in the Chat window. "

These can't be considered fixes if they completely sidestep the issue.

The cursor works. Pad to mouse transitions work. It's just not good.  Let us disable it, because I could just use Xpadder to emulate my mouse and keys, and it would easily work much better than what we have now.

Edited by Shaloman
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5 hours ago, highjacker6600 said:

Like i said before I'm French customer so all my apologies for my English! 

 

I want to say something about the different types of controllers using by player for my part i use this one 

Xbox-One-Chatpad-top-view.jpg?itok=M6wi1

It's the XBOX Élite controller with MSN chat pad plugs on it.... Its the perfect balance between keyboard and controller play style 

So please keep in mind many players use this type of game pad !

and they absolutely don't need any transitioning systems for play with controllers be cause they already have the best parts of this 2 world 

 

So please add toggle options for bring back on older UI 

First option for turn the virtual cursor ON or OFF in different types of menu

star map on or off 

arsenal on or off 

Foundry on or off

Relic on or off

Another one for the shortcut X, Y, A,B like the old UI on arsenal 

Remove the "X" key for confirmation and back to "A"

And last one for disable theauto transitions between keyboard + mouse and pad configuration when people need to switch or not

 

I use exactly this same rig. I play from my leather recliner. no keyboard just the chat pad. 

Edited by Maelthric
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DE; Notice us Senpai!

There's next to no good feedback about this, just... please, even if all you did was reimplement the arsenal shortcuts and the ability to navigate menus with wads/D-pad, I'm sure many of us would be much happier.

This isn't fun, and the loss of somme functionality for keyboard users (you can't navigate menus with wads or arrow keys anymore, you're forced to use the cursor) isn't sitting well with me either.

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3 hours ago, WolvenEdge said:

DE; Notice us Senpai!

There's next to no good feedback about this, just... please, even if all you did was reimplement the arsenal shortcuts and the ability to navigate menus with wads/D-pad, I'm sure many of us would be much happier.

This isn't fun, and the loss of somme functionality for keyboard users (you can't navigate menus with wads or arrow keys anymore, you're forced to use the cursor) isn't sitting well with me either.

There may be a few reasons why DE has yet to respond to this issue. I will give you a good and bad reason.

The GOOD :

DE could be working on implementing a button to disable this cursor garbage that is alienating their PC Joystick user base.

The BAD :

They could be pouting that no one likes their new changes that they have worked on, so are ignoring us in the interim.

Personal Note :

    I wonder if anyone at DE actually uses a joystick to play this game, because any reasonable person would immediately see that the changes to the interface are simply despicable, and would have never been added to an update. To make things worse, DE #@$% up the chat interface even more for joystick users! Before, I was able to press 'x' on my Xbox 360 controller to open the 'Send Message' window, and then type something, and then press 'x' again to send it to the channel. Now, when I press 'x' and begin typing in the 'Send Message' window, after the first character appears in that window, it gets clipped and the rest of the text that I am typing appears UNDER the chat window instead. This would be fine, except that if I press 'x' to send the message, only the text in the 'Send Message' window gets sent to the channel, which in this case would be a SINGLE character. To make matters even more worse, if I press X again to try to fix the issue, all the data that was typed UNDER the chat window, appears in the 'Send Message' window, minus the first character that got clipped. The only way to get around this is to CLICK the 'Send Message' window with my mouse before typing, to force focus into that window. Yes. Click. Yet another blunder by DE to force people into using the mouse.

   Does anyone at DE actually TEST the changes that are made before they are added to a hotfix? It appears to me that one hand is not talking to the other, and there's nothing but programmers and script writers there who don't actually play the game. It seems as if they are fixing one thing and breaking ten others. That is not a really great way to do things. I play this game 100% using the joystick, minus the little keyboard I use to enter text into the chat windows. DE if you need someone to thoroughly test your changes to the joystick controls before they are released to the public, I would be more than happy to help. I play this game EVERY SINGLE DAY. If you would have asked me, I would have told you that the original control method was top notch, and to keep it as it was.

One more thing, I hope you realise that Sony would NEVER allow these changes to the control method, it wouldn't even pass CERT. You would lose a lot of PS4 players. Why would you even think that PC players would be happy with what you have done? Instead of adding things to the game, how about you release a hotfix that rolls back the horrible changes that have been made? How many more people need to respond to this thread before you take notice that it was a bad idea? Ten more? Fifty? A thousand? I am assuming that your lack of response is because you think that we are just a 'few people that is making a fuss when everyone else likes the changes'. OR you could be avoiding revering because you are trying to force us to adapt so we will stop complaining.

 

Please forgive my grammar. It tends to go to the pot when I am irate. I tried to correct it as best I can. Just a bit frustrated at the moment.

 

Thank You.

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35 minutes ago, BiTheWay said:

There may be a few reasons why DE has yet to respond to this issue. I will give you a good and bad reason.

The GOOD :

DE could be working on implementing a button to disable this cursor garbage that is alienating their PC Joystick user base.

The BAD :

They could be pouting that no one likes their new changes that they have worked on, so are ignoring us in the interim.

 

Thus why I am willing to continue posting about it. The more replies to the topic there are, hopefully the more likely they are to give it notice.

I mean, I can't even bump the thread in the typical fashion, because it's already pinned.

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Aaaaaand an update.
Aaaaand.... a 'fix' for the gamepad input, that doesn't actually fix any of the problems brought up in the gamepad input thread.

Hey, DE, can we get a sympathetic ear here?

I hope one of the Prime Time players is forced to use a Gamepad just so that the flaws are on full display during stream, maybe then they'll pay attention.

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3 hours ago, WolvenEdge said:

Aaaaaand an update.
Aaaaand.... a 'fix' for the gamepad input, that doesn't actually fix any of the problems brought up in the gamepad input thread.

Hey, DE, can we get a sympathetic ear here?

I hope one of the Prime Time players is forced to use a Gamepad just so that the flaws are on full display during stream, maybe then they'll pay attention.

They'll play with mkb just to avoid the embarrassmentof fumbling with the controls

And those 'fixes' didn't actually fix anything. Mouse targeting is still clumsy, the d-pad fix is only for the market...

 

Edited by Shaloman
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I’ve put this feedback elsewhere, but the bottom line is that if I wanted a mouse cursor, I’d just use a mouse. Emulating a mouse cursor with a controller is slower, less precise, and less accurate than an actual mouse, so it is definitely not an improvement over stringing mouse and keyboard across the living room so I can quickly use the UI. 

In addition, the tiny delays in the UI as it constantly has to activate the virtual cursor, or when it’s switching the control scheme as it redetects the controller, or - and this is a big one - switching confirmation from A to X all add up to a very unpleasant experience.

As it stands now, I’ve found that all the little inconveniences you’ve introduced to the UI are annoying enough that I’ve just stopped playing. Gameplay changes are never a big deal to me, but being constantly annoyed by the basic UI is definitely a dealbreaker. 

My fondest wish would be for you to simply roll back the virtual cursor implementation and say, “That didn’t work out, so we’re removing it.”

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Right now I have set the sensitivity to 80/300.

I thinks it helps a lot, but I miss to much the fast and intuitive movement with the D-Pad and the shortcuts for buttons.

With virtual cursor sensitivity set low I need to use the mouse to get fast from one side of the screen to the other. If I set high sensitivity I need to use the mouse to hit a specific point in the screen.

By far, I prefer D-Pad back over Virtual Cursor. But if DE find a solution in the middle would be nice.

 

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It's beyond bad.

Not only the cursor is a bad idea from the get go but now it tries to switch in between controller and keyboard hud all the time, while I use the mouse to select stuff I now have to press O on my ps4 controller twice to go back to the previous window, and if I barelly scratches my mouse it goes back to the KB&M hud again, making it extremly tedious to navigate.

Please forget about the "Fanciness" of this new controller HUD and roll back to the old system OR allow us to toggle it off at least.

The unintuitivness of it doesn't makes me want to play the game at the moment.

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On top of that I cannot bind the reload button on the same one as the contextual action and the select button is now unchangeable on the ps setting, meaning I just lost 2 buttons on my controller.

This is completely unplayable for me.

 

edit: I actually cant even Map my controls, whenever i save it just rolls back to default too. Sooo, yeah i cant even play at all.

Edited by Kalnareff
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I too hate the new setup. Give me the option for dpad controls. Also the login screen no longer gives the option to hit x to enter password. I play with controller to not have to ever touch my keyboard. The random lb rb not working makes the mod and foundry menus a nightmare to navigate.  X not a to confirm cutscene skip ect. 

This game is not Destiny 2 don't try to be like them. Got that game in humble bundle and refuse to play because of their virtual mouse cursor. Now it infects my go to game. Not cool. 

The shrines update was perfect. You gave us actual functionality. Everything was working superbly. The way it is now is horrible and worse not asked for. 

 

I used to be a huge fan and supporter of this game voiced very much through my wallet. I have regularly kept a over 1k purchased plat balance in game. I have every weapon and frame I've ever earned or bought including mks with all the 12p slots that goes along with that.  I now feel great negativity very much connected to my waste of 20 bucks for the tennocon virtual ticket. I bought the package mainly for the baro access that is now useless to me because of not wanting to play with the new menu controls and therefore my chances to earn ducats. 

 

I am right on the verge of uninstalling and never looking back. Which is a shame because I have a lot of fun for 2 years but a bonehead move like this that destroys my QoL I find personally unacceptable.

Edited by Sawney
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1 hour ago, Sawney said:

This game is not Destiny 2 don't try to be like them. Got that game in humble bundle and refuse to play because of their virtual mouse cursor.

Is that where they got this dumb idea from?  Are they trying to poach Destiny players?!   Microsoft tried something like that when they made the Zune.  They made the player function like iTunes (even though everyone hates iTunes) in the hope of winning over Apple cultists.  That most people don't even know what a Zune is should tell you all you need about how successful the attempt was.

You're coveting whales that have already been hooked and landed and ignoring the schools of fish around your boat (if you follow my poor attempt at metaphor).

Should change the company name to Ahab, what with the self-destructive whale chasing...

 

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On 2018-05-17 at 10:43 AM, BiTheWay said:

I can't believe it. I have been so disgusted by this new virtual cursor addition that I have been forced to make my first post to the forums. I will keep it short and sweet. I use a controller because I do NOT wish to play this game with a mouse and keyboard. If I wanted a cursor, I would play with a mouse. It is as if you are punishing people for using a joystick by FORCING them to navigate the UI with a stupid, slow virtual cursor. Not only that, there doesn't seem to be a way to disable it in the settings. I spent like an hour going though the options menus with a fine toothed comb trying to find a way to revert back to the previous control method. Look DE. Don't do it. It is a horrible, terrible idea, you will have a furious player who will be forced to return back to his PS4 account just so he won't have to look at that terrible excuse for a navigational tool.

Thank You.

You're not alone, I too made my first post in forums due to this nonsense.

 

I don't like to care about nerfs, or patches that change how frames I like to play work so much, but this controller ui thing has crippled my play style. I tend to go back to the lander after every mission to toy around with colors and mods or swap out weapons and such and it already took too long for my cohorts, but now I practically have to leave the squad of my real life friends so they don't get so impatient with how long it takes me to even open the menue for color, let alone pick one I like the look of. 

 

Edit: I should also say I use a steam controller with little flippydos in the back and a touch pad for aiming, and this game is one of the very best examples of why to use it, or it had been until it made it impossible to use menus with any kind of speed. I can bullet jump as easy as breathing, but can't pick a fishing bait without reaching for my keyboard now.....

Edited by sorities
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I have a few physical issues that force me to play most games with a controller layout or an emulated one. This game was a shining beacon of light in the giant sea of PC developers who are obsessed with KB&M controls. I believed the developers were on the consistent path of improving those controls. I recommended this game to many people who ranged from controller enthusiasts to people with severe physical disabilities. It seemed like they "got" us.

Boy do I have egg on my face. I wish I could remember everyone I've recommended so I could apologize.

There was a time when the menus felt lightning fast. Even for people with a controller. However, this new artificial mouse cursor clearly shows a plan that does not have the controller player's interests at heart. I can learn to adapt. That's nothing new. But what was once a feeling of hype and wonder at every mention of the new UI update, has now been replaced by a feeling of embarrassment. Controller players on the PC are not unfamiliar with the artificial mouse cursor. In every other game it feels cheap, unresponsive, and unintuitive. It screams "I realize a portion of my community is large enough to warrant resources dedicated to navigating menus, so I'm going to give them the bare minimum support for that." To be honest, maybe I'm not as surprised that DE would decide to go in this direction, as I am disappointed that it would even be an option.

Don't get me wrong though. I still enjoy the game. Wouldn't have logged in to post if I didn't. I would have just uninstalled and moved on. The only real effect that this is going to have on me though, in the long term at least, is that I am not recommending this game to new controller players. Ever again. Even if these changes are totally reverted, it shows that there is a broken philosophy at the core of the controller UI development. I can not in good faith tell someone that DE would never take away their preferred way to control the game. I can not tell someone that their time is well spent on a game that could at the the drop of a hat take away features that I gushed and raved over. I can not agree with someone spending money on a game that will possibly have an even more controller unfriendly UI in the next coming months.

So that's all from me. All the possible ways to fix this have already been stated. Adding a revert option. Giving back the ability to scroll through the menus and then use a key press to jump to another part of the menu. Ect. I'm sure that there will be some kind of fix for this in the future. Whether it be near or far. But I will caution that this "throw it out and see what sticks" design process has and will continue to hurt the full potential this game has. Its a sad sight to see and I wish good luck to the other Tenno in a similar position and I really hope, for all of our sake, that this minor hiccup helps you to learn before your team releases the grandiose UI update in the near future.

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