[Update 22.2.0] Saryn Revisted 2.0 Feedback MEGATHREAD

[TyrianMollusk]

Also, since you have taken away so many Molt features and want it to be this weird defense-only power, throw us a bone and roll Regerative Molt into it, so it's less a weird placeholder that takes a mod to make into a real ability.

In fact, you could just switch regen and the speed boost.  The speed boost was a terrible idea, but I'm sure some people love that stuff.  This way it's optional.

[BreatheForMe]

I would like to see enemies infected with spores on the map (in purple color, for example). So we could find them and spread spores and not running around to find them, or recast spores. Because now if you cast spores on the first group of enemies and only one of them survives, while a second group already there, it's hard to find him, so you can spread more.  

[Patzer]

6 hours ago, Valaska said:

Her spores barely spread and are pointlessly worthless on anything other than Onslaught or Simulacrum... Its like whoever made these ignored 90% of the game and tested in exactly 2 areas... Oh wait, that's what happened :/.

I urge you to try something like this for starmap. Spreads just fine in my opinion.

[UncaIroh]

Alternate suggestion: you have 3 seconds upon detonating spores to recast and continue the chain.

[Morthal]

42 minutes ago, TermiteFrame said:

Oh yeah...
Mhm...
Definitely some in depth testing going on here.

It's not quantum science but I can appreciate your sarcasm. Simple game, simple mods makes for simple testing. 

[d3me]

I have an issue...

Clearly, the spores is not optimized for situations when 2 or more Saryns are in the party. Spores override each other with some weird algorithm, so that hefty damage you stacked before turns to zero, when another Saryn just casually swap your spores with her or just unknowingly deny your spores from spreading. I suggest allowing multiple instances of spores from multiple players to be present on a single enemy (currently each individual enemy have 3 "slots", so I suggest this slots to be shared between players). Also, it would be nice if stacks won't drop the moment last enemy with spores dies, but allow you a few second to recast spores, rapidly "ticking" to zero at this time.

[Helmed]

1st Thing that needs to be address immediately

Molt isn't attracting enemies fast enough, it's making Saryn a bit too squishy for sortie levels

It needs to be immediate attention, just like Octavias Mallet skill

 

2nd thing i would like to see is miasma getting a damage buff

Currently it doesn't have very much use in the new saryn meta. I think the original plan of upgrading its damage to 500 would be perfect

[Patzer]

1 minute ago, Helm said:

Molt isn't attracting enemies fast enough, it's making Saryn a bit too squishy for sortie levels

...eh?

Spoiler

 

 

[Helmed]

Just now, Patzer said:

...eh?

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Eh to you too. Although i don't have the tools to provide cherry picked evidence

I can assure you that molt doesn't work unless you stop completely and make sure its being shot at at first. Again, this isn't a problem with mallets functionality 

[Patzer]

5 hours ago, VoidFlux said:

Some maps spread Very well, others not so much. try playing Mot, some of the doors and obstetrical block spores.  other maps spores spread like wildfire. problem is that some tiles sets are just a nightmare to keep spore up others it works very well. normally the more open maps have less problems, the maps with more close quarters are more difficult. it doesn't seems like every object will stop it, but a good number will. 

280% range gives 44,8m spread range and I have not had problems wit LoS at all.. When spores did not spread I checked the distance with waypoints and every time it was more than that 44m.

 

[Patzer]

9 minutes ago, Helm said:

Again, this isn't a problem with mallets functionality 

Agreed. Saryn can't stay full invis, while enemies drop dead around you while all you need to do is tactical teabagging to the beat. Wouldn't be surprised if her rework was due soon.

[S-081]

For everything that is good, please make spores re-castable after the first time without detonating previous spores. Make detonation hold to detonate and simply pressing '1' cast spores normally, damn it it felt so unnatural without being able to spam spores on every enemy you see. I don't mind no spore turret but damn it spreading spores can feel so clunky.

Also what happened to all the synergies on Saryn skills? They used to be able to interact with each other unlike any other frame, now Saryn just feels...'strange' to play.

[HidesHisFace]

Did some more testing, this time on grineer under-sea base on mid level enemies.

The spore spread definitely DOESN'T rely on line of sight but it is wonky beyond reason, so I understand why the LOS myth exists. It feels random and inconsistent.

- Toxic lash is now a must for spreading the bloody thing - nice way to force the ability that was borderline useless for ranged builds /sarcasm.

- seriously though, why even have toxic lash as a separate ability if I absolutely MUST use it to spread spores even semi-consistently.

 

Back to the spores spreading - it was spreading through walls... sometimes. I was able to infect 12+ enemies easily, including enemies coming from different sides of the defended area, almost all enemies in the large room... again, sometimes. 

The other time I put a spore in the middle of the large clump of enemies and popped it... only for it to infect two other enemies, while there were 6 or so more within 5 meter radius.

Spores popping seem to be heavily weapon-dependant. So far I had most success with Soma Prime, I still need to check Torid.

Either way, the damage was underwhelming to say the least - it really didn't matter if I cast the spores or not - they didn't really help killing the enemies - the damage buildup was too slow to matter. Enemies were dead before the spores could reach 150 per tick. The best thing spores could do was finishing stragglers.

Exploding spores on the same key as casting it is becoming increasingly annoying. Limit to a single cast feels more artificial and annoying with every game I play.

 

The major problem is... spores do NOT synergize well (as in AT ALL) with your team mates. Most of the time, your own team is a nuisance, they STOP spreading the spores instead of helping it - that is a very bad gameplay mechanic for a multiplayer game...

Edited May 18, 2018 by HidesHisFace

[Deniiiise]

After some testing, I can say I really enjoy this rework. Whether or not she's as powerful as before I can't really comment on, because I've yet to do (or want to do) anything high-end.

However, I feel the point of this rework was to make Saryn flow better, feel less awkward and most of all make her a lot less confusing and more fun to play. ALL of those this rework accomplishes, I think. To me she feels far less clunky, the spammy playstyle is gone and instead your abilities compliment what you'd be doing anyway, resulting in much more fluid playstyle.

I'm a fan! Thank you, DE! 😄

[Cibyllae]

2 minutes ago, HidesHisFace said:

Did some more testing, this time on grineer under-sea base on mid level enemies.

The spore spread definitely DOESN'T rely on line of sight but it is wonky beyond reason, so I understand why the LOS myth exists. It feels random and inconsistent.

- Toxic lash is now a must for spreading the bloody thing - nice way to force the ability that was borderline useless for ranged builds /sarcasm.

- seriously though, why even have toxic lash as a separate ability if I absolutely MUST use it to spread spores even semi-consistently.

 

Back to the spores spreading - it was spreading through walls... sometimes. I was able to infect 12+ enemies easily, including enemies coming from different sides of the defended area, almost all enemies in the large room... again, sometimes. 

The other time I put a spore in the middle of the large clump of enemies and popped it... only for it to infect two other enemies, while there were 6 or so more within 5 meter radius.

Spores popping seem to be heavily weapon-dependant. So far I had most success with Soma Prime, I still need to check Torid.

Either way, the damage was underwhelming to say the least - it really didn't matter if I cast the spores or not - they didn't really help killing the enemies - the damage buildup was too slow to matter. Enemies were dead before the spores could reach 150 per tick. The best thing spores could do was finishing stragglers.

Exploding spores on the same key as casting it is becoming increasingly annoying. Limit to a single cast feels more artificial and annoying with every game I play.

post the build you were running

[HidesHisFace]

1 minute ago, Cibyllae said:

post the build you were running

Same as on my old Saryn for the sake of fair test. A high efficiency build.

Spore cast range is 87m, spread radius 23m. 

98% duration, 175% efficiency, 145% range and strength. 

By the way, Saryn became noticeably more energy hungry, even on that build.

[Cibyllae]

25 minutes ago, d3me said:

I have an issue...

Clearly, the spores is not optimized for situations when 2 or more Saryns are in the party. Spores override each other with some weird algorithm, so that hefty damage you stacked before turns to zero, when another Saryn just casually swap your spores with her or just unknowingly deny your spores from spreading. I suggest allowing multiple instances of spores from multiple players to be present on a single enemy (currently each individual enemy have 3 "slots", so I suggest this slots to be shared between players). Also, it would be nice if stacks won't drop the moment last enemy with spores dies, but allow you a few second to recast spores, rapidly "ticking" to zero at this time.

This is a known issue pre ST-PO

[Patzer]

12 minutes ago, HidesHisFace said:

The spore spread definitely DOESN'T rely on line of sight but it is wonky beyond reason, so I understand why the LOS myth exists.

Spoiler

 

Edit: nvm, tired, read wrong. Though I have been able to reliably spread them as long as distance has indeed been that 44m.

Edited May 18, 2018 by Patzer

[Cibyllae]

16 minutes ago, HidesHisFace said:

The other time I put a spore in the middle of the large clump of enemies and popped it... only for it to infect two other enemies, while there were 6 or so more within 5 meter radius.

If you could recreate this in an image or video that would be awesome. Even if these enemies are only dying your spore spread range should be 11.6m, try and get markers in their so we can see the ranges and we don't have to guess. Or use some type of landmark that we can go back and recreate ourselves and check it.

when you say "popped it" do you mean "one of my bullets hit a spore which was on an enemy" or "an enemy with spores on it died" or "I hit an enemy with spores on it while toxic lash was activated"

Edited May 18, 2018 by Cibyllae

[GA-Bulletproof]

The hit on enemies health is one key mechanic we had with Spores.

So please switch:

Spore: Toxin DMG

Toxic Lash: Corrosive DMG

Then she will be way better.

[d3me]

37 минут назад, Cibyllae сказал:

This is a known issue pre ST-PO 

Yes, but then it wasn't really an issue, because you still getting energy from ally Saryn's spores when using Toxic Lash and there was no stacking damage mechanic (oh right, also you can run different builds with different damage, but I counted Saryn more as debuffer and not a DD then, any Spore build could halve enemy health). Now it is different. You really need your spores on enemy now.

Edited May 18, 2018 by d3me

[HidesHisFace]

28 minutes ago, Cibyllae said:

If you could recreate this in an image or video that would be awesome. Even if these enemies are only dying your spore spread range should be 11.6m, try and get markers in their so we can see the ranges and we don't have to guess. Or use some type of landmark that we can go back and recreate ourselves and check it.

when you say "popped it" do you mean "one of my bullets hit a spore which was on an enemy" or "an enemy with spores on it died" or "I hit an enemy with spores on it while toxic lash was activated"

I will try to re-create it but it is hard to screenshot it, when you have to multitask like this now.

Pop the spores - hit is to spread it, preferably with toxic lash activated, which I had running pretty much for the whole duration of the mission.

Either way - the spore spread is not THAT bad when it works, but it seems glitchy, and lack of synregy with your team AND other Saryns really hurts now that you can't simply cast more spores. And there is a case of diminished impact I feel the spores have, they don't seem to do enough damage to justify casting them at all, unless you can deliberately keep enemy alive long enough for damage counter to build up - which is counter-intuitive and simply does NOT fit the general pace of the game, it is too slow, unless you hit super high level bullet sponge enemies, like corrupted heavy gunners.

[KennBone]

 that bugg when u got enemies with spores and u enter in porta,l skill get bugged cant be used till u die in onsl. 

I really love this great rework saryn is much funny and efecctive to use now,

 

[Naneel]

After some testing : 

• The damage build-up on her spores is too slow, even on bosses you only get low ticks till they die. Also in the Fight with Kela she regains her armor and you have to strip it anew every time she enters the ring and you also have to stack up the spores again. The spread seems to be okay, as long as you have enemies.
• her molt feels a lot more durable now. The speed boost is okay, but a bit irritating. 

  vor 1 Stunde schrieb TyrianMollusk:

  Also, since you have taken away so many Molt features and want it to be this weird defense-only power, throw us a bone and roll Regerative Molt into it, so it's less a weird placeholder that takes a mod to make into a real ability.

  +1
• Toxic lash now feels a lot better.
• Miasma feels mostly like before, which is okay. But in the developers workshop it was mentioned to increase the damage to 500, was this forgotten or is there a reason it was cut out ?

[Cibyllae]

This

18 minutes ago, HidesHisFace said:

will try to re-create it but it is hard to screenshot it, when you have to multitask like this now.

Pop the spores - hit is to spread it, preferably with toxic lash activated, which I had running pretty much for the whole duration of the mission.

Either way - the spore spread is not THAT bad when it works, but it seems glitchy.

And this

18 minutes ago, HidesHisFace said:

lack of synregy with your team AND other Saryns really hurts now that you can't simply cast more spores. And there is a case of diminished impact I feel the spores have, they don't seem to do enough damage to justify casting them at all, unless you can deliberately keep enemy alive long enough for damage counter to build up - which is counter-intuitive and simply does NOT fit the general pace of the game, it is too slow, unless you hit super high level bullet sponge enemies, like corrupted heavy gunners.

Two totally separate things, I'm asking about the former. The issues with multiple Saryn's on a team are known issues, and you're gripe  with spores design I can't address.

 

Looking forward to those videos and/or screenshots, people like you are having problems with spore mechanics and we can't resolve them unless we have some tangible material to work with. Its not that I think you're lying, its just the nature of how people describe problems. If I told you I saw a fish a mile long, its not that I'm necessarily lying. Its just that I think a whale really is a fish. And that issue of indentifying a whale as a fish can't be resolved until you know that I'm talking about a whale, and I understand why a whale is not a fish. I don't think that your identification of the problem is correct, I agree that there is an issue because you're upset. The frustration you are experiencing is a result of the expectations of Saryn not matching your experience with her. But whether or not that is caused by expectations which are not aligned correctly or an experience which is misaligned with reality remains to be seen. Which is why I am looking forward to those videos and /or screenshots so we can figure out exactly what is going on.