[Update 22.2.0] Saryn Revisted 2.0 Feedback MEGATHREAD

[Fosuya]

Just wanted to post that I just also tried going for a high eff, max range, rest into str build for spamming the miasma(typical old cheese build)... It turned hydron and similar maps into a desolate wasteland void of any enemies whilst all i had to experience was loud boom noises in my ears.. 

I did actually fear that the miasma spam would become viable again, this time it feels even worse than the first time due to having viral damage baked into the mix..

[SneakyErvin]

8 minutes ago, Zanakeph said:

But i'll wait for some nerfs before have fun to not get salty.

Currently she is extremely hit and miss. It's like rolling the dice everytime you try and spread spores now "will they work or not?". Sadly it is mostly not.

[Daziri]

Hey!

 

I came here in the hopes that we can start a chitchat about Saryn's current situation... Not cry about how DE nerfed her, because in the bigger picture they didn't.

With the revisit the major changes are that Molt lost its interaction with Spores and Miasma. While Spores and Miasma swapped their elements they still have great if not better synergy. Toxic Lash also got major buffs. She has some bugs but those will hopefully get fixed soon (looking at you >.> spore-usage-lockout).

I generally feel like Saryn got a lot smoother with the changes. Her 3 feels great to use. And since her Spores now do Corrosive the Toxin damage will really show off even on the heavy armored targets. I can actually use another aura than CP... and in this case I turned it into a Growing Power, because who doesn't love 25% free Power Strength.

Saryn generally doesn't need that much duration since she has quite high base durations. You can focus for Power Strength and Range. Her "early" power got a hit, because you need to stack those spores again. But when it gets crowded... you can quickly get spores dealing lots of damage. In Elite Onslaught her spores quickly ramped up to 3000 dmg per tick; this means each individual spore did 3k damage and on infection 3 spores appear on the enemy => 3 x 3 = 9; 9000 damage per tick is insane. She really shines in lategame content. While low-med enemies usually die with a Miasma.

 

Tell me your thoughts of Saryn and remember to respect others... I don't wanna see any jibberjabberish action. As you were 😜

 

[[DE]Danielle]

1 hour ago, (PS4)MJ-Cena7 said:

wasnt miasma dmg supposed to go to 500 from 350 ?

Hey! We added a developer note in the Dev Workshop at the beginning of the week about this :) 

Quote

 

Increased damage from 350 to 500.*

*To enable Saryn to more reliably spread her 100% guaranteed Viral proc, we've increased Miasma's range! To compensate, we've returned Miasma's damage to its previous state, as more enemies can be inflicted by the Viral proc and the double damage bonus on those carrying Spores.

 

 

39 minutes ago, Whachamalica said:

Been playing a little bit and experienced some interactions that might make it game breaking.
One being the spore skill becoming locked when moving between portals in Onslaught.
Another similar situation is when the spore target dies just as you cast your spore will result in the spore not propogating, essentially locking the spore skill as well.

Hey! When you say "locked" what do you mean? As in the ability is no longer able to be cast? Thanks for the details! 

 

[[DE]Danielle]

39 minutes ago, Scarlet78 said:

Miasma - Spores and Miasma together are counter intuitive... miasma bursts all spores, if its cast by another Saryn!!  Really?  That needs changed.  Also there was a lot of talk about making the abilities work together and this just doesn't work well with spores at all.  So if you are gonna roll out a Saryn instead of bringing along your CP, then great, otherwise, disappointing.  EDIT:  Tried another mission and Miasma wasn't bursting the spores... which is bug that it does or doesn't??

Sounds like you might have come across a bug! Miasma shouldn't be bursting Spores, especially not if cast by another Saryn (since it would really hurt the ability for you to control your own Spore spread). Could you provide more details on the bug if you run across it again? Thanks!

[[DE]Momaw]

If you're finding Saryn spores to be unreliable, how are you spreading spores? My experience is that as long as you have Toxic Lash running, spores spread like mad.   Also check your mods, she really needs positive Range stat if you're looking for nuclear spores

[MrRagez]

Yeah through Simulacrum testing Ive noticed the new spores are inconsistent to say the least. They ignore some enemies when spreading, then sometimes they dont spread at all. The new spread range is also so abysmal, even with max range, considering you cant recast her spores anymore. So you get a mediocre spread to about 6 mobs, which likely wont spread anywhere.

Edited May 17, 2018 by MrRagez
additions

[LIKE_A_PR3DAT0R]

look's like pox don't pop anymore the saryn spore or is my impression?

@[DE]Danielle

Edited May 17, 2018 by LIKE_A_PR3DAT0R

[Rambit23Z]

Just managed 9 zones on Elite Sanctuary Onslaught solo with just abilities and a non-slide melee.

This is a huge buff in Higher levels, level 100 Napalms melting everywhere. She is even more reliant on high enemy level and density than before, but for the amount of damage she can put out, it's entirely worth it.

[moonfallen]

Does anyone else had spores ability pernament active during mission even when counter not showing anything is affected, and without ability to reuse it ?

[Emolition]

But I just got khora awile ago don't make me forma saryn =P

[Jackel7]

2 minutes ago, MrRagez said:

Yeah through Simulacrum testing Ive noticed the new spores are inconsistent to say the least. They ignore some enemies when spreading, then sometimes they dont spread at all. The new spread range is also so abysmal, even with max range, considering you cant recast her spores anymore. So you get a mediocre spread to about 6 mobs, which likely wont spread anywhere.

Same I had a small group of level 100 corrupted butchers running towards me and I was on average able to tag 2-3 each time with spore

[Koed]

First of - I never liked the molt spore/turret playstyle. Found it to be extremely boring (but effective of course). And that is obviously the biggest change - spreading the TOXIN proc is done directly by shooting an enemy with your weapon. That enemy (and that enemy alone) is now toxin procced. You can easily proc an entire room with corrosive spores to strip armor but the massive toxin damage is done to single targets or "small" aoe depending on your weapon. I personally like this change and I must say the damage from your toxin procs seem to be REALLY REALLY strong! I think it's pretty much a requirement to use aoe weapons to spread toxin procs most effectivly. I myself have been having a lot of succes with Glaive Prime + Prisma Angstrum. Deadly combo!

I have been using a build with 67% Duration and Miasma is still great (partly thanks to Saryn's passive). An entire room can easily be Viral procced for roughly 12 seconds - that range increase from 15 to 20 is a great buff!

2 things I dont like: I wish the whole "recast spores for 2x damage" would disappear. It's rather pointless but my guess is that this was a way to balance Saryn by not constantly recasting spores. Still kinda annoying. Second is molt. Now I appreciate the added buffs for increased health for the molt and a short speed boost but I think noone will use this ability besides Regenerative Molt users. It would have been nice if Saryn actually received the health buff instead of the molt - it didn't have to go overboard like Inaros levels of health. Or maybe Saryn's body could be covered by the molt for 3 seconds making her invulnerable in that period. I dunno, I just don't see a reason to use Molt as it stands.

Overall I am very pleased though - What are your thoughts so far?

[Fosuya]

@[DE]Danielle - About the spore casting getting locked out,  thus far it seems to be reproducable on my end.

Frame by frame replay

Saryn, Initiates to cast Spore
Intended target dies
Spore finished casting
Corpse disappears along with spore
Nothing particular happens
Standard Skill-UI shows that spores are active ready to exploded but no Infection-UI
Henceforth til death or map remake Spore skill is now Locked from action.

[Fosuya]

4 minutes ago, Rambit23Z said:

Just managed 9 zones on Elite Sanctuary Onslaught solo with just abilities and a non-slide melee.

This is a huge buff in Higher levels, level 100 Napalms melting everywhere. She is even more reliant on high enemy level and density than before, but for the amount of damage she can put out, it's entirely worth it.

Prior to the change I could do 11->12 Zones ESO with my Saryn reliably, What build and weapons were you using for this effect?
Moar datas help with catching what's good, bad and what would need tweaking! :) 

[PapaWeeb]

The Spores graphic for spore count and damage is definitely not working properly atm. Took her to sanctuary and quite frequently (maybe because moving away from the spores, or team kills spreading them?) the counter disappears, even though I can see the corrosive ticks of damage all around the map. Because the counter is gone you activate spores on another enemy, only to have the original spores detonate.

Besides that, it's definitely strong but hard to keep it going. It's quite easy to kill the enemies faster than they spawn in, either by letting the damage ramp up or killing them some other way. It's a shame the status chance is linked to power strength because I'd personally rather reduce strength and use the spores for stripping armour.

Molt  feels really good, especially with regenerative molt

Toxic lash feels good too

Miasma proccing viral definitely makes more sense, seeing as you only need the one proc instead of it ticking over and over. I don't think I'll use it much because of the cost though. I'll have to play around with low power strength and see how much the corrosive from spores suffers

 

[(XBOX)oOJeshuanOo]

Meh. I don't use Saryn much so I guess I don't have much of a say...

[Rambit23Z]

6 minutes ago, Fosuya said:

Prior to the change I could do 11->12 Zones ESO with my Saryn reliably, What build and weapons were you using for this effect?
Moar datas help with catching what's good, bad and what would need tweaking! :) 

Just my weird Slash-Crit-Combo-Status-ConditionOverload Nikana Prime build. But I did 99% of the damage with just abilities, as that's what I wanted to test.

As for stats on the Saryn:

100% Duration
45%   Efficiency
160% Range (Planning to swap out Cunning Drift for that Duration Augur mod)
199% Strength

This is on my Solo Saryn build so I've prioritized utility mods like Handspring and Rush (I love Rush).

Edited May 17, 2018 by Rambit23Z

[MrRagez]

I can't make a full opinion on it considering the spores are bugged significantly. I'll wait for it to be fixed before making a full breakdown. I've tried doing testing in Simulacrum and it's super inconsistent. The spores do MUCH more damage than before, but the spread range is so small that its really kind of pointless on most tilesets.

[SneakyErvin]

Too many bugs currently for me to give an opinion. If she stays bugged then I wont touch her, if she gets fixed so her spores are reliable and dont just disappear for a multitude of odd reason then I'll give her more of a try. Right now she is unplayable due to the spore spread buggs unless you sit in simulacrum only and look at damage numbers.

[Irisena]

Oh well, just tested her in simulacrum fighting 20 lvl 100 grineer and corrupted heavy units.
I must say the way she is right now, she can sit quite comfortably in A rank frame position.
She's immortal, with QT + Molt augment + Hunter Adrenaline build
She deals massive, massive damage just with her 3 and 1.
Her spore obliterates armor, making lvl 100 enemies look like babies.
Miasma range is somewhat decent now, unlike the previous one.

But well, if anything, she's borderline OP imho.
Haven't tested her yet on real lvl 100 survival mission. Will update after doing so.

EDIT:
So, I have tested her on several survival mission. And damn, the result is wildly different than what I experienced in simulacrum.
- Her spore is running too fast and too randomly. Before I know it, the spore already spread on other tileset while leaving me and my team's tileset with no spore. Basically, the spore's spreading is too erratic you can't even tell where it's going to go next.
- Miasma is simply too strong. My intention is simply just to cut the enemies health to half, and that's it. What I got is enemies dying before you can even see them, even when my power strength is merely 121%.

Overall, imho, Saryn have become an extremely strong and powerful frame. But she's not that fun to play. Her spore is highly unpredictable, and her Miasma is simply a press 4 to nuke anything in 50 meter radius. She indeed is strong, but in general, it feels bad playing her. it's like you don't have control over your frame, it just plays itself.

DE, I really appreciate you buffing saryn. I really love the buff mentality to solve a problem instead of nerfing something to all hell to solve a problem. But really, I must say this time that this buff is a bit too far.

So, what can be done to fix her?
Here's a bit of my recommendation:
1.) Spore currently is too strong. Maintaining it alive after several tens of seconds is hard because it moves too randomly since it kills enemies too fast. Hence, I suggest to remove spore's scaling damage, and buff spore's base damage. The purpose of this change is to keep enemies that infected with spore manageable, and give the player some kind of control on where they want to spread their spore.
2.) Nerf Miasma damage, but make the duration longer or something. The purpose of casting this skill isn't to nuke anything in 50 meters range, but simply to inflict viral to anyone in 50 meters radius. Having enemies killed when you haven't even seen them yet feels like (meme atterax) i'm cheesing the game, even if I didn't mean to. It indeed is strong and efficient, but it's not fun.

Edited May 19, 2018 by Irisena

[Edzhang]

i have only one problem with her.. please make an option to cast another spore and hold the button to pop it.. in my playtest on normal sanctuary onslaught, i cant stack more than 2k damage because only 2-3 enemies are infected, and they are in the farthest room, while the rest of enemies are in the middle.. the only option i have is to destroy my current spore, losing my spore stack, and start the new one.. 

the rest of her kit are great.. thx for the rework (i call this a buff for her)

EDIT : one more problem, the spore indicator seems not working properly atm.. sometimes it disappears though enemies are still affected by spore, and when i died and being revived, the indicator's gone..

Edited May 17, 2018 by Edzhang

[AtomicNuclearZarkiel]

There are several things I dislike about the Saryn rework, but here are the main issues:

1) Spores using Corrosive instead of old Toxin damage. There are many instances when Toxin is preferable to corrosive, especially in optimized squads with 4 CP. IMO it would b nice to have an ability to switch between different kinds of spores, like Vauban does with his mines. or Ivara with her quiver. This would give Saryn much more versatility.

2) Detonating the spores instead of recasting them is redundant, because detonating deals less damage than popping them with Toxic lash and re-spreading them, so it serves no purpose. More than that, due to UI bug the spore counter may disappear, prompting you to recast spores that will detonate them instead and leave you without the stacks you've gained so far.

 IMO the detonation property should be removed, or altered so that it causes spores to spread on detonation instead of making them disappear without a trace. Recasting/detonating should still apply spores to the target in any case, as per normal spore cast.

3) Molt synergies with anything at all are lost completely, which looks really weird considering all other synergies were kept almost intact. It is now a fairly useless ability outside of an augment. 

Suggestion: make Molt be affected by spore spread and be able to store a spore on itself (from player cast or an enemy spread) so that when it detonates/killed/expired it would spread the spore, also keeping a player from losing their spore stacks if there are no enemies around

it also should have some sort of new synergy with Miasma.

4) Miasma has lost part of its synergy with spores, and its synergy with Molt. IMO it should help propagate the spores or affect stacks in some way.

[W3zeer]

vor 16 Minuten schrieb Momaw:

If you're finding Saryn spores to be unreliable, how are you spreading spores? My experience is that as long as you have Toxic Lash running, spores spread like mad.   Also check your mods, she really needs positive Range stat if you're looking for nuclear spores

Was running a max range build and tried a fissure survival. Spreading spores was pretty much impossible. Not entirely sure, but I think when the enemies turn, spores get removed. I already wish back my old Saryn, if this spore-spread is intended she'll share the fate of my Limbo...hope they have fun together in my warframe-closet.

[Koed]

2 minutes ago, MrRagez said:

... The spores do MUCH more damage than before, but the spread range is so small that its really kind of pointless on most tilesets.

Pretty sure spread range was untouched at 16m. My build currently has 42,4m spread range - enough to cover most rooms!