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[Update 22.2.0] Saryn Revisted 2.0 Feedback MEGATHREAD


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9 minutes ago, HelMonster said:
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Hi, there is a bug on the spore, when we use it, sometime the spell remains activate and we cant use it again because the monster with the spore is dead or I something like that.

 

 

saryn_bug_resize2.png

Edited by Cibyllae
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I have... I guess kind of a question.

when toxic lash is active her uaa... her chest seems to get a tad bit larger. it might just be the skin. it might just be the color change or lighting.

but looks different.

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Edited by Fluff-E-Kitty
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17 minutes ago, Oblitum said:

ability feels like complete garbage.

It's just the feeling, trust me. Personally I think this is exactly what devs are aiming for, use the whole tool box. All abilities, run around, survive with dodge rolls etcetc..

 

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After extensive testing I do have to say that she needs a way to either store her spore damage or reapply it. currently its really hard to come back when spores are spread too far out.

Suggestion to let Miasma take and reapply all spores. in her range. allowing for more control over where her spores go.

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2 minutes ago, Patzer said:

 

0m4dqHz.png

Hmm looks interesting will have to toy around when I got some time next week.

I hope Koed could share his Prisma Angstrum set up. I rly need an excuse for it again haha.

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Saryn's been my favorite frame since Ember got trashed, and no I wasn't the "take Ember to a defense and afk player" I was the "take Ember on highest bounties and have fun" player... I liked Saryn mostly in solo gameplay, solo survival, etc., as it was just very fun, active and rewarding, so I'm coming to this rework with a bias but I must say, it's not all bad.

Something's off with spore spread at the moment, and I suspect there's a hidden cap somewhere: maybe only three spores spread at a time, maybe there's some line of sight issues or maybe the old "spreads to half range if enemy dies" is still at play. This last one would be the biggest issue with permanent duration spores. I say if we are to keep permanent duration that "half spread" needs to go away. Either way, something feels buggy and off.

I'm a fan of permanent duration but not permanent scaling. It leads to a situation where enemies simply die without you having to do anything and is a little too reminiscent of molt-spore combo. By the same token, I'm not a fan of the "only one spore spreads" mechanic as it actually makes it harder to see which enemies are affected and visually it's simply less amusing than seeing ticks off in the distance everywhere, which is a big draw Saryn has, it's just very satisfying for some reason. Maybe the infinite scaling and high base status chance could be toned down so the good old Saryn's visual appeal can remain in game, and we keep the maximum number of spores affecting an enemy to 3 with the spread to match?

Molt's speed increase... God no, please no... why?! This, much like the changes to Toxin Lash, feel like an ill-guided attempt to make irrelevant abilities relevant when in fact they should have simply been scrapped. Even though Saryn was my favorite frame, I felt a rework would go a long way to making her better, but my idea was giving her 2 and 3 synergy with her spores so that they would consume the spores and grant a buff in exchange, defensive and offensive respectively, so using those abilities becomes a relevant and impactful choice. Molt is thematically appropriate but gameplay wise it amounts to "hit your 2 and run backwards", which is simply odd. Toxin Lash is good now but I see no reason to use it, her 1 and 4 are so much better her 3 is simply not needed.

Perhaps more importantly, seeing as this rework for whatever reason is here to stay, make spores detonate and recast simultaneously if an enemy is targeted and spores are active. I find myself having to double tap spores just to make sure I'm casting on the enemy I want it. And yes, the UI element is there but in the heat of combat it's too clunky still and with the reduced number of spores affecting enemies it's too hard to see as you normally would have.

Press 4 to win seems to be more real than it was before, without the Toxic spreading synergy and the increased duration and status chance of Miasma, what used to be primarily a quick CC becomes a strong room clear once more. I don't like that. It makes playing Saryn easier and less engaging and I suspect we will see max efficiency, strength and range build to spam 4 once more. When I read about this rework I thought the viral and corrosive swap was unnecessary, that the scaling and recasting spores was unnecessary and actually took away from the engagement factor, but that if we wanted simple synergies for Saryn what could be done is giving Miasma a guaranteed Corrosive proc and actually have it infuse active spores with corrosive damage and proc chance. Then you can get rid of bizarre Miasma synergies and voila, you're done.

Overall I don't think I'll have as much fun playing Saryn as I did because it's easier, on the one hand, the spore spread (and not being able to recast) is less amusing and enemies eventually die without player interaction. Visually she's less satisfying on account of the damage numbers ticking away off in the distance and Molt's actually annoying now. And if you're ever in trouble, like so many other frames, press 4. Permanent duration is nice but the reduced number of spores affecting enemies and being unable to spread them by recasting at another enemy in specific location, to cover another area of the map, takes too much away in the enjoyment and gratification department. She's good, perhaps even better and more user friendly, but less fun overall.

Edited by ZarakkiZenn
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12 minutes ago, jmthebigman said:

Hmm looks interesting will have to toy around when I got some time next week.

I hope Koed could share his Prisma Angstrum set up. I rly need an excuse for it again haha.

https://imgur.com/a/W1NJRJI (Tried posting images - cant seem to make it work 😛 )
Here ya go 🙂 The 2 mods u cant see are both heat Damage mods 🙂

Edited by Koed
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So far... my first impressions are not very good.

Press 4 to win Saryn is BACK, basically, because spores is now garbage.

But before I get to to that, let's address the absolutely bizarre elemental damage swap between spores and miasma... Just WHY? It is so counter-intuitive. Spores spread... like a disease... like a... VIRUS. Miasma doesn't - it is like the acid nova, as in... stuff that should corrode. The swap doesn't make a single bit of sense context wise.

Now onto the abilities:

Spores: what is even going on with it and where do I even start? One cast only... it is insanely counter-intuitive and when combined with spore detonation under the same key, it can easily ruin an already terrible spore spread. Speaking of which:

The spore spreading mechanics is absolutely busted. It is either poorly thought-out, or bugger, or both. With previous Saryn build, I was able to spread my spores very nicely across large groups of enemies with 145% range, and even stock 100% range was still useful. But now? It feels inconsistent - spores sometimes spread nicely, but other times they fail to spread to enemy that is just around the corner or few meters away, despite over 20m spread radius. Something is horribly wrong here.

Damage - scaling infinitely is great in theory... but in practice, it is worthless unless you deliberately leave enemy alive - it starts with around 19dmg per tick, which is pretty pathetic, and the damage increase is just way too slow to matter anyway. Corrosive debuff is also meaningless with corrosive projection teams. Infinite duration is also meaningless - with old spores, enemy would usually not live long enough for them to expire anyway - and even if the old spores would not do much damage, the viral proc enough was a major help. Corrosive proc... situational at best, depending on your team. Now the damage scaling - it takes too long to build up reasonable damage - so the whole infinite duration and more damage with every tick thing is just a gimmick that doesn't do anything useful, unless you DELIBERATELY KEEP ENEMY ALIVE to build up the damage. Another counter-intuitive thing going on - seems to be the theme of this rework - counter-intuitive.

 

Molt: Ok, I agree that casting spores on molt was a bit cheesy. I don't mind this being removed. But the speed buff... honestly it feels out of place... It is distracting. I was really using this skill as mobility tool more - simply to make up for Saryn's "meh" base speed. But not as an escape tool - aggro on Molt was already good enough anyway.

 

Toxic lash: Hard for me to comment on this so far. It is difficult to suddenly start using it, after all this time it was useless for ranged build. This skill always felt out of place for Saryn and still kind of does. From what I read, it no longer pops the spores - and this was the only time where I was using this ability - to help spread spores in melee range.

 

Miasma: With viral 50% hp debuff guaranteed, it feels powerful. And that is my major problem - why would I ever use unreliable spores, when I can press 4 to win again?

 

Why is so much of the synergy GONE? Why are spores so busted now? 

My major gripes are removal of some synergies and lack of recastable spores (I assume that terrible spore spreading is a bug, and I hope I'm right and it is not intended, if it is... I just don't know what to say, because I would probably get banned for stating what I think).

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Molt still doesn't provide enough survivability, making it's augment mandatory in many cases.
Miasma still not being a lingering duration based cloud is very disappointing, being buffed to 20m base range is not enough to make up for this.
Other than that, when things are actually not bugged, new Saryn feels nice.

Side note stuff here since I'm lazy, but looks like energy color and placement on certain regalia, armor, abilities, etc is borked and not matching what you select.
Such as the Ki'teer Sekhara.

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Okay my thoughts on this rework as a whole is the changes are not  all bad in terms of damage and switching spores to corrosive and miasma to viral totally works out fine with me. Now for the problem I have with this new rework is with the number 1 skill spores press again function to detonate spores.

I want spores everywhere I want spores on as many enemy groups as possible. But for certain large maps that cant always work out since if I want to put spores on another group out of range of my defense objective I have to first run to them put spores on one enemy target press my 3 skill and kill with my weapon to spread the spores.

Sound s all good right?  Oh but wait in doing that I just cured the other group I left back near my defense objective. 😕

 

Yeah this rework to how spores spread and detonation option really doesn't sit well with me at this time. The hit 1 again to make spores detonate really needs to be removed.

 

Edited by NETHOR-ORLEX
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15 minutes ago, Koed said:

https://imgur.com/a/W1NJRJI (Tried posting images - cant seem to make it work 😛 )
Here ya go 🙂 The 2 mods u cant see are both heat Damage mods 🙂

Interesting regarding the crit aspect, the toxin part bit mehh cause only the 60/60 in it.

Got this beauty for mine, cant wait to test saryn out with PA. (got a max projectile build aka Max Mag cap)
t2Am38M.png

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2 minutes ago, jmthebigman said:

Interesting regarding the crit aspect, the toxin part bit mehh cause only the 60/60 in it.

Got this beauty for mine, cant wait to test saryn out with PA. (got a max projectile build aka Max Mag cap)
t2Am38M.png

It got crit buffed recently so it's qutie awesome. I would imagine u can't do a charge build with that riven though? The spread must be crazy with that many rockets?

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Despite AoE damage supposed to be spreading spores, the Corinth's alternate fire does NOT spread spores at all, with or without Toxic Lash. Testing with the Lenz, Amprex, Zarr, and Ignis Wraith shows that all of them do spread spores.

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What a waste of an interesting frame. Building for spores was always a balance, and needed all 3 main powers, strength, range and duration, to work together. As far as I can see now, all you need is maximum strength, and hope the Line Of Sight Gods are on your side.

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I can see how most of the changes support the goal of reducing passive play and encouraging active play. However I am a little disappointed that a player can no longer supplement Saryn's effectiveness by adding toxin and viral to the rest of their loadout. Figuring out ways to jam as much toxin and viral into a loadout was a puzzle and an engaging instance of active play itself.

For example, my loadout for Saryn had developed to include Burston Prime with Gilded Truth (Gas Explosion), Embolist with Eroding Blight (Viral Explosion), and Venom Dose (Toxin for allies). You can imagine why that loadout and Saryn have been my favorite for years. It felt super good to build and use; I had created a dialogue between Saryn and the gear I equipped her with. Now it feels like that layer of play might be stripped away.

As I understand from reading the changelog and the Q&A at the beginning of this topic, the removal of boosts gained from outside toxin and viral procs was done because the changes made to Spore & Miasma increased their overall damage output anyway. This is understandable, but I think an engaging (and yes a somewhat hidden) part of Saryn has been lost - the dialogue between Saryn and her gear. I suppose migrated would be a better word than lost. The Saryn-equipment relationship seems to have  been replaced by the fact that Toxic Lash now affects firearms in addition to melee. Now, it's just one button-press away.

The result is not quite as exciting as a damage boost caused by the player's ability to plan the gear they bring.

@[DE]Danielle if there is time for a response - is the decision to remove boosts from outside toxin and viral as simple as I have worded it here?

Edited by Rhokkes
(toxin for allies)
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