Nekros 4 Change/Augment Idea

[BlackHarlekin]

Hi,

as a Nekros main i want to suggest an idea for his 4.

Ever since the Prime Trailer i thought how cool it was when the dead rises and he hasn't to cast.

My idea is simple, make his 4 as a toggle.

He would spawn his shadows one by one until he has 7 out. If one dies he will be replaced.

So we would just need to keep track on our energy instead of recasting everytime the complete pack (most of the time i forget it xD).

 

Isr just an Idea for a Ability Change or Augment.

 

[Cazena]

I like that idea. It looked extremly cool in the Trailer and id love to not keep track of my shadows status/health/duration all the time.

[BlackHarlekin]

Woulde be a nice Quality of Life Change.

[(XBOX)ZenithLord 42]

That would be a cool Augment! Call it something like "Eternal Shadow"! 

[BlackHarlekin]

Maybe more like "endless number" or "creeping shadows"

 

they wouldn't be permanent, so "eternal" wouldn't decscripe it right.

[Huanthus]

As a QoL it would be great,  not so much as an agument due to Shield of shadows being a thing,  you know 80/90% Damage reduction works wonders for a survival frame like Nekros

[EinheriarJudith]

this doesn't even need to be an augment. they can just use the regular mechanics they have for it now and add your idea as base part of the skill. though there would be an issue with them lvling up. to combat the issue they could just add a link to nekros like with the kubrow/kavat, shadows health shield and armor use %value of his own. your idea will remove the need to maintain them because of self maintenance and the link will keep them relevant as enemy lvls go up.

[Mr.Snipersmiley]

I love this idea but the problem is if it’s a toggle how will we be able to heal our spectres? Will we hold down the 4 button to start of toggle and tap to heal?

[EinheriarJudith]

44 minutes ago, Mr.Snipersmiley said:

I love this idea but the problem is if it’s a toggle how will we be able to heal our spectres? Will we hold down the 4 button to start of toggle and tap to heal?

dont need to heal them. when they die they reform as op suggested.

[Huanthus]

25 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

dont need to heal them. when they die they reform as op suggested.

Most likely it starts draining your energy and when it is not toggled the shadows would start to decompose which also would solve the the problem of the shadows draining oberon energy too quickly

[Mr.Snipersmiley]

Then you encounter the problem of specters regening hp forever when Nekros toggles the shadows on

Or is the hp restore scrapped?

Edited May 23, 2018 by Mr.Snipersmiley

[EinheriarJudith]

26 minutes ago, Mr.Snipersmiley said:

Then you encounter the problem of specters regening hp forever when Nekros toggles the shadows on

Or is the hp restore scrapped?

HP restore is off while active im guessing but it can be scrapped as having them reform invalidates the need for them to be healed.

[o.0-]

Curious how this could be made to work.

Well, I can imagine, toggle Shadows on, then 7 floating sprites appear, in this form they only draw aggro as they float harmlessly.

Begin killing enemies and then the sprites use energy to transform in to the Shadow forms that can attack and be damaged. They do this as long as there is energy and enemies on the list to assume the form of.

Tapping Shadows can heal the Shadow forms as usual.

Allow Shadow Punch to make any Shadow form explode and either draw from the killed enemy list or return to being a floating sprite until more kills are logged.

 

[Huanthus]

36 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

HP restore is off while active im guessing but it can be scrapped as having them reform invalidates the need for them to be healed.

Instead health degradation would be halted while active so hp restore would. Not be needed

[BlackHarlekin]

the idea was that the Shadows still bleed out but we don't refresh them. instead a shadow will replaced (and consume energy) with a new one.

 

like desecrate with the bodys.

 

also you won't cast all 7 at once, you toggle it and one after one will pop.

you can make them stay longer with mods and the shadows will still mirror thier living counterparts.

so this would't change.

[(PSN)AbBaNdOn_IGN]

*hates shadows*  I love Nekros but im not raising a an army of shadows to block MY line of sight not to mention everyone elses.    If they could make it so that Shadows are almost completely translucent I would consider using them (im not using my energy for nothing else anyways).  Cant use it for terrorize because it makes crap run away even though it debuffs them.   Not soul punching single targets just to not kill them and ragdoll the enemy off in random directions.  

Instead of raising shadows that look exactly like the enemy you are facing what if the shadows looked like something else completely, had their own graphics.  What would be awesome is half torso human zombies crawling along the ground.   Would make LOS/visibility a non issue!!  

I do love shadow nullifiers with our custom energy colors though =( heh.

Am I the only Nekro to not use shadows??

[Grimmstyler]

@BlackHarlekin

I think Shadows is good as it is..

So by doing this you would bypass the casting animation of Shadows? Or the casting animation would get you stuck raising a shadow while in the middle of a fight?

Shield of Shadows seems effective to me.. I think this change your suggesting is just another move for AFK play.. Desacrate was much needed to be made Channeling..

If anything I'd like to be able to Soul Punch Shadows for AOE knockdown and bleed damage (Could be called Decay Damage being Shadows specific) .. Especially undesired Shadows like Nullifiers which doesn't seem to do much against enemies and block YOUR + TEAMMATES shots if your behind thier bubble..

Edited May 25, 2018 by Grimmstyler

[Hammahness808]

I'm not sure I like the idea. As it is now, I can use any build with Nekros and constantly regenerate energy with Energy Siphon or with Zenurik's passive. If his 4 became a toggle, it would mean no more constant energy regeneration and if you had his 3 toggled plus 4, then the train would be too hard.

[Soki01]

On 2018-05-18 at 12:18 PM, BlackHarlekin said:

Augment.

leave the augment alone i like my damage reduction ;-;

but yea a toggle on his 4 would be a nice qol change

[BlackHarlekin]

@(PS4)AbBaNdOn_IGN

so you only use his 3 then?

on pc his shadows looks more different thanfrom the enemys.

 

@Grimmstyler

and what you do now? cast shadows and let them buff your defense. dont see any movement.in fact you have to stay on place to cast them and keep them near you. sounds more of an afk play.

 

just for clarification, i dont use augment and dont have a problem to stay alive on high tier cause i move.

[(PSN)AbBaNdOn_IGN]

3 hours ago, BlackHarlekin said:

@(PS4)AbBaNdOn_IGN

so you only use his 3 then?

on pc his shadows looks more different thanfrom the enemys.

Pretty much.   I will drop shadows if im being assassinated by a syndicate or if I need to revive someone else.  Otherwise im not gonna troll other people/myself.

[BlackHarlekin]

@Soki01

dont worry, i wouldn't touch the soul link augment. I suggest a new one.

 

with an Augment version you can decide if you want a QoL change and use a mod slot or stay by the old system.

[Soki01]

might be a while before abilities have more than one augment though 🤔

[BlackHarlekin]

i know, i hope for a base rework =P

[JK21Games]

Ability Issues

In general, I think Nekros has two major problems, namely his 1st and 4th ability. The issue with his 1st ability is that it provides only a little bit of damage and pretty bad CC. This is compounded when you can cast Terrify for 75 energy which is actually a good CC ability. Not to mention that the theme of the ability is supposed to be that he's one shoting someone by knocking their soul out of them.

The 4th ability suffers from similar issues. Because enemies have very weak damage scaling relative to their health, even with bonus damage, Shadows do little to no damage against enemies outside of very basic levels. This makes them a very clunky meatshield that only really is useful if you put on the augment for them (the augment itself also has massive visual clutter unnecessarily). I don't run the augment personally, so I never cast Shadows. Also, thematically Nekros is supposed to have an army of Zombies that are savagely ripping through their enemies at his command. Yet, he just has a bunch of shadow clones of enemies which is kind of lame. I think this is somewhat understandable given how you can shadow clone an enemy that has been gibbed, blown up, and similar things, but there is a better way of doing it.

Soul Punch Rework

So I think there's actually a pretty good way to resolve both of these abilities. Firstly, Soul Punch should be switched to have two separate functions. When an enemy is above 50% health, using Soul Punch on them does not punch out their Soul. Instead it ragdolls the enemy, sending them flying through enemy ranks, knocking down other enemies. When the enemy is below 50% health however, Soul Punch acts as an insta-kill for that enemy, sending their soul out of them (though note that this no longer acts as a projectile of any kind). As an added bonus for killing an enemy in this way, they are revived as a Shadow Zombie (basically the character model that is covered in the black shadows of Nekros as in the Nekros Prime Trailer) which has unlimited duration, is much tougher, deals much higher melee damage, and acts something like Infested Jumpers. Note that this is now possible since the enemy will remain in one piece when getting turned into a Zombie, so you don't have to have the lame Shadow forms of enemies. This becomes the new primary way that you get Shadows. The augment for his Shadows ability is switched over to this 1st ability. Also, I would expand the number of potential Shadows to 10 or so, but they also shouldn't effect the enemy spawn rates.

Shadows of the Dead Rework

As for his ultimate, the issue as discussed before is that Nekros doesn't actually have a direct damage ability (the new Soul Punch is a damage ability, but it doesn't handle hordes persay). With his Ultimate, the new concept is that it changes to a Shadow wave of the damned so to speak. Nekros launches a massive energy wave in front of him with the souls of the damned, knocking down enemies and dealing heavy damage to them. The Shadows of the Dead has a new meter that charges the ability with every enemy that Nekros kills, making it more powerful and giving it %based finisher health damage for every enemy slain (for example, 2-3% of so) in addition to its standard damage. When Nekros unleashes the Shadows of the Dead, the current charge is used up. This gives Nekros an excellent scaling damage ability which also does not encourage ult spamming since it gets better when you charge it. There are then two primary options for the ability augment. You could have a % chance for enemies killed by the ability to turn into Shadows, or you could give Nekros Lifesteal + Armor that scales off of the number of enemies hit by the ability.

Edited May 26, 2018 by JK21Games