The Saryn Nerf Really guys?

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

I really don't like to complain but you guys first rework Saryn a frame that was fine in the first place? There are plenty of other frames that could have got the love but.... saryn? okay its cool! Really after I saw the rework it looked sorta fun then BOOM because she's more broken in onslaught you're gonna nerf her? I feel as if you shouldn't nerf a frame because its outperforming in your new game mode. Ex ( Chroma) Are you going to nerf a nuking trin or Equinox next because i'm pretty sure they do amazing in Onslaught. It really sucks because you guys do this all the time and I love warframe but me and all my friends who play are getting kind of tired of this cycle. You give us something good then nerf it to crap call it "fair and balanced" then move on. Not to mention I play saryn more then anything. Look DE please just leave her alone... Also i'm aware of the hate i'm going to get for this but if you don't care for my view why speak on it?

[WhiteMarker]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)NouhArch said:

BOOM because she's more broken in onslaught you're gonna nerf her?

It has nothing to do with onslaught and there was no nerf.
Calm down and eat some cookies.

[Teshin_Dax]

Well.. it's true.. that has always been the case.. Buff-- then nerf.. 

It's good that you write about this issue

[kotex073]

Waiting for that guy who will say "warframe is still beta"

[Artekkor]

The Saryn was reworked again because the synergy of her skills felt forced and her 2nd and 3rd skills were almost useless.
There was literally only 2 ways to play her: spam spores everywhere to spread the viral or do the setup of Molt > Spores > Miasma to nuke the room you are in.

The rework brought about general quality over her entire kit and made her less of one-trick-pony. I see that as a good thing.
Unfortunately, as it is often the case. there happened to be some unforseen consequences to that. So now DE have to adress that because - and i said these words so many times im getting tired of repeating them - DE had showed CLEAR pattern of disliking passive gameplay styles that revolve around spaming same set of abilities from safety of a corner of the room and are slowly, one by one, they adress all the Warframes (or weapons) that can do that.

That's why Ash has to look at the enemy in order to assassinate.
That's why Ember got... whatever she got.
That's why Banshee's augment was changed (although i would argue it made her even worse, so look up to nerf of that).
That's why suicidal Trinity is most likely to be adressed in the near future.
That's why Mesa now requires some general imput from the player to aim at the potential victims, instead of being an all-seeing turret.
That's why LoS was added to melee, radial blind and many other things.

The pattern of nerfing passive low-effort high damage output across a large area tools is clear and i would propose to people to take any tool that is capable of that with a grain of salt, because its a very likely event that its going to get nerfed at some point, one way or the other.

I'm sorry, but that's just how this is, this is how DE see their game being played, and frankly - i agree with them.

Edited May 20, 2018 by Artek94

[Xolgys]

well, its good that they look at frames and change them, either nerf or buff, after a rework. basically thats good. the only issue i see is that there needs to be a sweetspot. dont nerf something into the ground but also dont make it too silly. the balance needs to be consistent in both directions, nerf and buff. too much of either is never healthy.

[SneakyErvin]

What exact nerf are you talking about? If you mean the rework that recently went live on PC then it is the exact opposite of a nerf. She is so much better now no matter the content. People complaining have simply not given her a try or built her correctly. When changes comes you shouldnt be 100% sure that the same mod loadout or your loadout in general works the same as before.

The only thing it changed was molt+spore spam. When it comes to actual damage performance she is way beyond what she used to without having to use a weapon as a crutch to get some form of mileage from her skills.

Maybe test her when she hits the consoles before being up in arms about it.

[Xolgys]

Gerade eben schrieb SneakyErvin:

What exact nerf are you talking about? If you mean the rework that recently went live on PC then it is the exact opposite of a nerf. She is so much better now no matter the content. People complaining have simply not given her a try or built her correctly. When changes comes you shouldnt be 100% sure that the same mod loadout or your loadout in general works the same as before.

The only thing it changed was molt+spore spam. When it comes to actual damage performance she is way beyond what she used to without having to use a weapon as a crutch to get some form of mileage from her skills.

Maybe test her when she hits the consoles before being up in arms about it.

pablo said on twitter she will get some big changes again. that doesnt imply a straight nerf though. could be a nerf for onslaught and a buff for anything else.

[kotex073]

El pablo also said in the livestream he was afraid saryn who turn out a bit to strong, and that they would adapt if that was the case.

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

1 minute ago, Artek94 said:

The Saryn was reworked again because the synergy of her skills felt forced and her 2nd and 3rd skills were almost useless.
There was literally only 2 ways to play her: spam spores everywhere to spread the viral or do the setup of Molt > Spores > Miasma to nuke the room you are in.

The rework brought about general quality over her entire kit and made her less of one-trick-pony. I see that as a good thing.
Unfortunately, as it is often the case. there happened to be some unforseen consequences to that. So now DE have to adress that because - and i said these words so many times im getting tired of repeating them - DE had showed CLEAR pattern of disliking passive gameplay styles that revolve around spaming same set of abilities from safety of a corner of the room and are slowly, one by one, they adress all the Warframes (or weapons) that can do that.

That's why Ash has to look at the enemy in order to assassinate.
That's why Ember got... whatever she got.
That's why Banshee's augment was changed (although i would argue it made her even worse, so look up to nerf of that).
That's why suicidal Trinity is most likely to be adressed in the near future.
That's why Mesa now requires some general imput from the player to aim at the potential victims, instead of being an all-seeing turret.
That's why LoS was added to melee, radial blind and many other things.

The pattern of nerfing passive low-effort high damage output tools is clear and i would propose to people to take any tool that is capable of that with a grain of salt, because its a very likely even that its going to get nerfed at some point, one way or the other.

I'm sorry, but that's just how this is, this is how DE see their game being played, and frankly - i agree with them.

But heres the thing there were more ways to play her! A melee saryn build is SUPER fun to be frank and people who played saryn alot could tell you that. You could try to use molt as a decoy and hit a crowd with your plasmor etcetc etc. there were MORE play styles but the more known one cause this rework. I also know of banshee but I don't play her because i'm not too fond of her kit and I agree with making your game fair like #*!% yeah DE make sure everyone has a chance to have fun but some changes made hurt others regardless of their intent. for Christ sake i had to borrow my friends pc account to test out saryn and now shes getting a nerf? because of onslaught? it hurts man

[Mardomus]

The problem with most mmo games is that devs don't really listen to the community, though they claim they do, and rarely take feedback into consideration. This is why you see classes that dont need reworks or buffs get this type of attention become broken and nerfed to crap due to devs. There are frames that need more attention than this one and few still suffer from buggy abilities and/or outdated and unscaled abilities that can bearly find or mesh with groups for the content out now more than Saryn who can handle current content without the buffs. Take a look at Atlas or Limbo or Nezha or Vauban and so forth. Least played frames lol. The reason Khora gets a lot of attention and quick feedback is because she is a new frame. The more the community speak up about certain frame treatment the less we have to deal with what they did or will do with Saryn.

[seprent]

Every thing in this game is subject to change whether we like it or not De vision of the game changes over time 

object permanence does not apply to warframe While a rock will pretty much for ever stay a rock warframe will change over time some good some bad some people wont like it some people will in the end don't get too torn up about if your favorite thing gets changed it was bound to happen now matter how recently it was reworked De gathers data faster the more the object is used 

like i love ash, ash gets change, people say ash is going to be trash because cant kill a whole room in a horde shooter he is dead rip ash only mr fodder now i wasted money on this blah blah blah, and i still use ash heavily and clear a whole room one half being stabbed by clones the other half be killing them my self methods change end result stays the same

in the end there will be always something for somebody somewhere to complain about not trying to sound like a $&*^ but that's kinda how it is expect change at a moments notice why im not surprised sayrn gets a rework She can pretty much if she sets up just right *queue meme* have spores play for her and go sit somewhere and not give two S#&$s or a biscuit about enemy level its gonna get balanced to play nice with others it might not be what YOU do but it doesnt mean its then not a problem that needs addressing 

who knows might not even be that bad people tend to blow things out of proportion sometimes in this community No offence towards op not trying to insult but if i had a dollar coin for each person that either just doomsays every major update or big change Or yells De only does nerfs and nothing but nerfs abandon ship i could have enough of those coins i could have a stereotype pirate chest of gold  

[Nez-Kal]

Posted this twice, but I'll post it again:

"I was thinking instead implement a Damage Scaling for Spores where Spore's Tick Damage escalates for a short duration (2-4 seconds) ONLY when a Spore on an Enemy is struck/popped. This way, you can't set and forget. You have to actively herd your Spores towards groups of enemies AND continue hitting them if you want the Damage to scale."

 

Seems like a simple solution to keep her growing plague DPS, while removing a vast amount of AFK-ing the Spores. You want the damage, you have to work for it.

 

[SenorClipClop]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)NouhArch said:

But heres the thing there were more ways to play her! A melee saryn build is SUPER fun to be frank and people who played saryn alot could tell you that. You could try to use molt as a decoy and hit a crowd with your plasmor etcetc etc. there were MORE play styles but the more known one cause this rework.

There were, but spammy Saryn was the easiest (and most boring) for the least amount of effort. It didn't fit the ratio of input-to-power, so it got fixed.

8 minutes ago, (PS4)NouhArch said:

for Christ sake i had to borrow my friends pc account to test out saryn and now shes getting a nerf? because of onslaught? it hurts man

I would save your salt for when we actually no what's going to happen, rather than scream "nerf, nerf, grab yer pitchforks". Designer Pablo's exact words via his Twitter were "definitely want to try and preserve the feel, but make her stronger in normal missions and not as broken in Onslaught" (here is the link to that for clarity's sake). While might be getting fixed to make her less of a cakewalk in a gamemode whose mechanics fit Spore perfectly, there's been a lot of feedback about Spore being disappointing outside of Onslaught and any change will work toward fixing that.

[GPrime96]

23 minutes ago, Artek94 said:

That's why Ash has to look at the enemy in order to assassinate.
That's why Ember got... whatever she got.
That's why Banshee's augment was changed (although i would argue it made her even worse, so look up to nerf of that).
That's why suicidal Trinity is most likely to be adressed in the near future.
That's why Mesa now requires some general imput from the player to aim at the potential victims, instead of being an all-seeing turret.
That's why LoS was added to melee, radial blind and many other things.

Also, Valkyr is forced out of Hysteria with her over time energy drain.

[(XBOX)Kaldwin1571]

This is how DE does the rework... 

For example the Chroma nerf because he can one shot an eidolon... 

But If I fire through volt shield I can do it anyway. 

Also in onslaught... I reached round 20 with my equinox buffed by Rhino but I can't see any nerf... 

[(PSN)chris1pat8twins]

What I like is how people are demanding killframes be nerfed because “they kill too much” in onslaught even though the objective is to kill as much as possible. These are the same people that bring inaros or limbo into elite onslaught. (Just kill me) 👉🏻😵👈🏻

For every new event, game mode, or enemy DE follows with a nerf of a common warframe used for those new additions. It’s like they want us to not play the game. Then I go onto the forum and notice newbs demanding for the nerfs like some sort of protest. “More nerfs now. More nerfs now. More nerfs now” is all I see. Like all illogical protests, they backfire eventually. 

The nerfing of good warframes is getting old and annoying. Wouldn’t be surprised if Loki’s invisibility got nerf during a new spy/stealth mission. 

The changes I saw being made to Saryn which is really an element status swap will make spamming spores on molt more... complicated. We will be able to damage the infested more but not the grineer. Viral plays are huge role against grineer. While miasma corrosive is what mainly killed the infested. Kind of worried on how much the swap is gonna negatively affect her. Especially since grineer are the biggest pain. The corrosives spores better damage them more or else there will be problems. 

[seprent]

7 minutes ago, (XB1)TRL kaldwin said:

This is how DE does the rework... 

For example the Chroma nerf because he can one shot an eidolon... 

But If I fire through volt shield I can do it anyway. 

Also in onslaught... I reached round 20 with my equinox buffed by Rhino but I can't see any nerf... 

Your working together to one shot Terry teamwork

[low1991]

55 minutes ago, kotex073 said:

"warframe is still beta"

 

[Morthal]

This was expected to happen though. Even pre-show last week, Pablo mentioned the after party rework would likely happen. I've been using Saryn a lot now, for Kuva/ESO missions especially since spamming 4 is so cheap and effective. Spores too unreliable at the moment, they're not spreading properly or squad screws up the propagation.

[ParadoxMusic]

1 hour ago, kotex073 said:

Waiting for that guy who will say "warframe is still beta"

Waiting for the guy who will say it's F2P do devs can do whatever they want disregarding the satisfaction of their playerbase.

[peterc3]

1 hour ago, Mardomus said:

The problem with most mmo games is that devs don't really listen to the community, though they claim they do, and rarely take feedback into consideration. This is why you see classes that dont need reworks or buffs get this type of attention become broken and nerfed to crap due to devs. There are frames that need more attention than this one and few still suffer from buggy abilities and/or outdated and unscaled abilities that can bearly find or mesh with groups for the content out now more than Saryn who can handle current content without the buffs. Take a look at Atlas or Limbo or Nezha or Vauban and so forth. Least played frames lol. The reason Khora gets a lot of attention and quick feedback is because she is a new frame. The more the community speak up about certain frame treatment the less we have to deal with what they did or will do with Saryn.

Yeah, DE doesn't listen to the community. They rarely take feedback. Right.

It couldn't be that players don't have the best view of the game. It couldn't be that the players don't have to make a business around the game. It couldn't be that what you think is best for the game isn't the best thing for the game.

The whole point is Saryn can't deal with all of the current content, which includes everything made before SO, a point explicitly made by the person doing the rework.

If DE doesn't listen to the community or its feedback, why would it matter if they spoke up?

[(XBOX)Kaldwin1571]

1 hour ago, seprent said:

Your working together to one shot Terry teamwork

For me is completely nonsense, what's the difference between oneshotting eidolon with only Chroma or chroma+volt shield ( also trinity with shield)... The result is the same, 10 minute to take down a Teralist lok

[seprent]

30 minutes ago, (XB1)TRL kaldwin said:

For me is completely nonsense, what's the difference between oneshotting eidolon with only Chroma or chroma+volt shield ( also trinity with shield)... The result is the same, 10 minute to take down a Teralist lok

i think they only care is ONE frame is doing the 1 shotting if your working together then thats fine personally i dont remember 

[Mardomus]

1 hour ago, peterc3 said:

Yeah, DE doesn't listen to the community. They rarely take feedback. Right.

It couldn't be that players. It couldn't be that the players don't have to make a business around the game. It couldn't be that what you think is best for the game isn't the best thing for the game.

The whole point is Saryn can't deal with all of the current content, which includes everything made before SO, a point explicitly made by the person doing the rework.

If DE doesn't listen to the community or its feedback, why would it matter if they spoke up?

Obviously they do listen, but how much its being processed when Veterans, Youtubers, and partners been asking for things for a LONG time and..... plus frames who have been...... you should know..... and people asked for fixes and bugs... and........ yesh.. you get the idea. I'm guessing those who go into depth that can enlighten the Devs on issues with frames or endgame don't have the best view of the game. Saryn was good with the current content compared to other frames who are FAR behind her and DE knows which frames those are because they can check by the amount of time played and how many play that frame per. Plus they spoke up about Khora due to the LARGE amount of feedback from all over social platforms about the frame being released too early, if that is what you are referring too. But, they do have a small team, so they can get what they can get done, but to buff Saryn over other lacking frames..... yeah.

Edited May 20, 2018 by Mardomus