Wisps aren't fun

[Rhinkalis]

You want me to spend an hour doing nothing but loading in and out of the same map, avoiding fighting anything, and running the same circuit in circles to get enough wisps to, unless I'm willing to pay real money and/or get lucky, get enough wisps to make 2-3 things.  Ish.  And that sounds like good design to you?  Really?  You want to say it's good design to sit down for an hour, and it has to be the right hour, not just when it's convenient for you to play, and do nothing but run in circles upwards of 7+ times just for this one resource?  You're actually defending that as "easier" to get compared to just naturally acquiring things through actual gameplay?  Because if I wanted to spend an hour doing a menial task for a basic fraction of a construction cost I'd play some Clicker game or something.

Edited May 23, 2018 by Rhinkalis

[rune_me]

14 minutes ago, Rhinkalis said:

You want me to spend an hour doing nothing but loading in and out of the same map, avoiding fighting anything, and running the same circuit in circles to get enough wisps to, unless I'm willing to pay real money and/or get lucky, get enough wisps to make 2-3 things.  Ish.  And that sounds like good design to you?  Really?  You want to say it's good design to sit down for an hour, and it has to be the right hour, not just when it's convenient for you to play, and do nothing but run in circles upwards of 7+ times just for this one resource?  You're actually defending that as "easier" to get compared to just naturally acquiring things through actual gameplay?  Because if I wanted to spend an hour doing a menial task for a basic fraction of a construction cost I'd play some Clicker game or something.

Like I said, better than spending an hour fishing or mining gems. None of those are fun, but farming wisps are far more enjoyable than the two other.

Edited May 23, 2018 by rune_me

[Rhinkalis]

I'm inclined to take "doing something" over "Running in circles" but there's something of a...  False dichotomy running here, I think?  I've never hit a fishing material requirement that took more than 10-20 minutes of actual fishing to achieve, outside of "waiting for the right time of day" +/- however long it takes you to run where what you need to catch is.  I'll admit, I ended up doing most of my "mandatory" mining during an ill conceived exploration of some massive cave Grineer cave system, forgetting that it wasn't like anything cool was going to happen/be found without an active quest or event going there, so my time: resources on that one might be skewed, but it also feels like I'm spending far less time: amount needed ratio wise, so a more "fair" comparison would be an hour of fishing or mining vs 2-3 hours of wisp hunting from both my experience and the actual numbers I've seen around.

[K0bra]

True wisp farming is no fun and you need way to much to craft anything.

BUT http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Radian_Sentirum

These are the true **** of the plains.You need so much of them and they are so rare even with a booster.

Zero fun and after sometimes half a hour just painting circles in the stone with the cutter your hand even hurts.

[Altre]

I would like to remind people that repeat the "they're not hard to get" line that the complaint is not that the process is like spot engineering a lighting control panelboard for a 3000 sq ft house, it's just tedious, unfulfilling, and RNG BASED. This means that YOUR EXPERIENCE is not the same as everyone elses, therefore you cannot invalidate the claims of others based on your inexperience with the issue.

It doesn't matter that YOU enjoy running in circles more than other barely engaging, essential activities for PoE content interaction, it should not even be considered a feature. It's running around in circles. It's as engaging as people leveling up their athletics in Oblivion using macros or a rubberband.

I'll repeat: I don't have issues with afk players. My mission WILL be completed without a sweat if I'm not playing around with a new build. If I fail, it is likely my fault. But my lack of experience with this afk plague does not give me the right to tell all of the people that make posts about it that it's not a big deal because I'm not affected by it.

2 minutes ago, K0bra said:

True wisp farming is no fun and you need way to much to craft anything.

BUT http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Radian_Sentirum

These are the true **** of the plains.You need so much of them and they are so rare even with a booster.

Zero fun and after sometimes half a hour just painting circles in the stone with the cutter your hand even hurts.

Damn right, homie.

I feel like there needs to be an overhaul with the mining system. Like, the cutters should give marginally better benefits as you get them or something. Tier 2 needs to give you a rarity radar on your minimap and increase yields by 25-40% and the last one needs to give you material specific radar (so you can get the ones you need and bypass the randomness) as well as having 35-50% yield increase. Or make another tier for that last one and that you have to quest for. Do the same with items for fishing.

[Rhinkalis]

I'll admit, as they haven't been a primary concern for me, ultra rare gem stones haven't yet made my hate-dar, but I'll totally concur that there being hyper rare gemstones is as "good" of a design decision as I find the wisps.  Though I'll note there's nothing that says they can't both be bad design choices.  Especially because they probably are.

[SpicyDinosaur]

I don't understand this. First off, max MR standing is 26k, and I swear I can get 3 wisps more often than two but maybe it's just so easy being able to buy wisps and with faction I have literally made everything else for and then some, that I am just happy ro be able to use it. It's like making random zaws to test because I run out of ideas for that faction and I don't intend to channel so no need doing those exodias, that leaves you with 3, plus 2 more if you got them from the way too often occuring event. (bye bye sale value of any item from that.) Okay so that's 500 wisps, 55 for the best amp, you are going to want to make amps in between, and they scale up (each piece) 10/15/20 in rank. 

 

Wow that's a lot right? Well, you are, surprisingly, not required to farm it up in one literal or Cetus timed night. My last exodia is still sitting waiting for four more of it's kind so I can max it out and be done with them. No big deal, as it's not really vital.

 

The amount of wisps required for guilding is what, 2? Boosters give you two per wisp, and otherwise you have to get 2? Umm cry me a river? Even using quills faction to buy them, you could gild at least one zaw per 24 hours.

 

I can understand being frustrated and wanting to rush the amps, but after that it is fairly smooth.

 

Also umm, are you guys using the right things at all? I use loot detector, thieves wit, and I can see the boxes for the wisps long before I get anywhere near them (which is helpful for not stumbling on them and them flying away because you have no ability to walk properly,) speaking of which, who needs walking, I use a special build on my Zephyr prime, (duration controls tailwind not range, btw)  I zoom around the map, and if I run out of energy I eat energy pizzas, which honestly, you would have used killing those eidolons anyway unless your group doesn't suck, or you are experienced enough to do things with ERH etc

 

I bring a smeeta, as well, at one point I picked up 8 at once with boosters+smeeta bonus (it only happened once, 4 is more likely.) Sometimes if I am left with say between 10 and even 6 mins, I'll do a quick run. I never run in and out because that's tedious af. I do one run. Plenty of nights to do more. If you are doing 3x4, yea you won't have the time, if you do 2 runs though, you'll probably have time left over. Either way, are you really farming eidolons every single night of the game? Well, after you get enough for your amp (I found this surprisingly fast and I have done... some extra amps based on meta differences and for no particular reason,)  you apparently don't need those exodias.

Are you meleeing the eidolons, because besides farming credits, supplies etc, you'll be doing eidolons any other time, because eidolons eat supplies and there's no mission payout, unlike *cough* raids, fix this and pay us *cough* Or you could occasionally take roughly 10 to 15 mins (don't worry about doing laps around the lake, you do know they umm don't respawn while you are in the instance unless you do the run out and back in thing I advise not doing.) Of course, you can make it last all night if you get bored and want to cover every puddle, but you could also just cover things like the lake and its river and tributary, Hek's Stilleto, and Twin Horns, then consider yourself finished for the night.

Hell, play a diff frame and go solo the teralyst while you are there. Either get stuff for yourself or to sell. Also a teeny jump in focus.

It's really just a matter of being resourceful, furthermore, have you never had to grind out materials and farm heavily in this game? My early days were nonstop leveling MR and farming. (Derelict survival is kickass for multitasking that. Watched everyone complain about the Hema, and our clan had it started building immediately.)

 

Honeslty farming condrocs for tower white is currently more obnoxious to me because I want to be able to go back to saying the clan's research is at 100% sans ignis wraith. (we should just get a bigger clan to have someone donate a bunch to us that we can pass out honestly, If you pay more than 1p for those, you are getting ripped off.)

 

Depending on how long you are on, there are sooo many nights in a play session, too. I have been sitting here, feeling icky. And in the process 15 mins before night and 15 mins before day I get a warning ding. So I am aware I have skipped a lot of nights that could have gained me wisps or arcanes or whatever. (focus so I can move on to the last tree once I finish this waybound.)

 

Anyway, seems like making a mountain out of a molehill. I find PoE a lot of fun though, you know, now that 75% of the game breaking bugs are fixed. Just wish Onslaught would be scrapped and they'd actually fix those bugs. ^{Also please pay us for eidolons.}

[Altre]

This complaint isn't making a mountain out of a molehill, you just reiterated and arguement that doesn't invalidate others being frustrated. It goes from being a minor irritation to pain in the ass when people that claim we're just not doing it right or that it doesn't matter anyways. How are these things so "easy" to buy when the daily cap only allows you to buy two a day? 

I guess people should just go play another game because nothing in this game is essential to anything because there is NO endgame or end goal.

I guess all the people complaining about resource, focus point, and credit excess should just stop asking for sinks because it's just not essential to others? I guess they shouldn't have a feedback forum, either.

[Rhinkalis]

Hookay, let's just break this down a little.

1) "Well if you've already completely maxed out the syndicate you can buy 3 wisps per day!" Assuming you're MR 29+ anyways.  If you care about this you almost certainly aren't.  It's great that for someone already utterly maxed out that they get something of some use, but that's really not an answer to "god this is so frustrating to work through."

 

2) In my experience, anecdotal I know but I don't know what else you're basing your "Just have my experience with them on" other than person anecdotes too, so fair's fair, organically crossing the edge of lakes, w/e, that are along your way to doing something else earns you about 1 wisp/9 map visits or so?  If I actually saw more than like 5 over the course of the first of like 4 levels of standing for The Quills and Cetus I'd be less irked about it, but if I'm doing anything other than actively scouring the map for them I almost never find any of the damn things.

 

And...  To be honest breaking this down point by point is practically depressing.  Your answer is, ultimately: "The system sucks but if you don't care about getting anything from it for like a month then it's not so bad." Also...  I don't know, have you ever ground for a resource or MR?  Because I sort of remember getting to use WF powers, and fight stuff, and...  Like...  Play Warframe, as opposed to...  Not doing that.  Sure, it can get tedious if you're struggling to get some specific resource and so are running the same couple of maps, or need something hyper specific, like the "get all 3 vaults for a chance at X" spy stuff, or what have you, over and over, and yet all of the previous involve... Still playing the game.  Hell, your examples of other grinds also involve still playing the game.  You're stabbing at a bit of false equivalency here.  Not all grinds are made equal.

 

Also: "This is so tedious continuing to do it may drive me to stop playing the game" is not "making a mountain out of a molehill" when it come to personal experience.  For that to work someone would have to be exaggerating what they feel about something.  Just because it doesn't bother you as much as it bothers someone else doesn't make their complaints illegitimate.  Hell, for a freebie example, I don't mind the Blacksmithing stuff in Skyrim.  Sure, it's a bit tedious, but I don't hate it so much as to actively mod it out of the game.  But you know what?  Some people do hate it that much.  And it's not like I can blame them, it's not "engaging gameplay" or whatever.  It's reasonably poorly designed even if it doesn't bother me all that much.  Sure, I have my own techniques to make it more efficient to manage, but finding work arounds that match my attention span or interest doesn't actually make the system better.

And, you know what?  I generally find PoE, as a whole, fun as well.  Yet I'd still almost rather go ampless than have to deal with wisp hunting.  Except I actually rather like screwing around with Operator stuff.  So now this system is actively preventing me from enjoying others.  So I'm inclined to say that I'm glad it's proven easy for you to deal with, but when there are videos out there explaining optimal frame/mod/etc. combinations and ideal routes specifically to get wisps, with the addendum that "Make sure to get a Resource Booster or you'll burn out of playing Warframe entirely" (more or less), I feel as though there is a distinct problem at hand that exists outside of my subjective experience.

[Altre]

@Rhinkalis- I mod the hell out of Skyrim and use Elys Uncapper to manually set every leveling variable from level curves to attributes gained at specific levels. I made the ancillary abilities give xp, but it contributes marginally less to player level xp so you can't screw yourself. That's a whole topic of fun in itself. 😆

When I get my new rig and we settle down from our move and job transitions, WF is going to have to give Skyrim some room again...

[Drasiel]

1 hour ago, rune_me said:

Like I said, better than spending an hour fishing or mining gems. None of those are fun, but farming wisps are far more enjoyable than the two other.

For you maybe, for others that won't be case. I'm not sure if you are just pointing out your experiences or you actively don't want wisps changed.

 

1 hour ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

I don't understand this. First off, max MR standing is 26k, and I swear I can get 3 wisps more often than two but maybe it's just so easy being able to buy wisps and with faction I have literally made everything else for and then some, that I am just happy ro be able to use it. It's like making random zaws to test because I run out of ideas for that faction and I don't intend to channel so no need doing those exodias, that leaves you with 3, plus 2 more if you got them from the way too often occuring event. (bye bye sale value of any item from that.) Okay so that's 500 wisps, 55 for the best amp, you are going to want to make amps in between, and they scale up (each piece) 10/15/20 in rank. 

Wow that's a lot right? Well, you are, surprisingly, not required to farm it up in one literal or Cetus timed night. My last exodia is still sitting waiting for four more of it's kind so I can max it out and be done with them. No big deal, as it's not really vital.

The amount of wisps required for guilding is what, 2? Boosters give you two per wisp, and otherwise you have to get 2? Umm cry me a river? Even using quills faction to buy them, you could gild at least one zaw per 24 hours.

I can understand being frustrated and wanting to rush the amps, but after that it is fairly smooth.

Also umm, are you guys using the right things at all? I use loot detector, thieves wit, and I can see the boxes for the wisps long before I get anywhere near them (which is helpful for not stumbling on them and them flying away because you have no ability to walk properly,) speaking of which, who needs walking, I use a special build on my Zephyr prime, (duration controls tailwind not range, btw)  I zoom around the map, and if I run out of energy I eat energy pizzas, which honestly, you would have used killing those eidolons anyway unless your group doesn't suck, or you are experienced enough to do things with ERH etc

I bring a smeeta, as well, at one point I picked up 8 at once with boosters+smeeta bonus (it only happened once, 4 is more likely.) Sometimes if I am left with say between 10 and even 6 mins, I'll do a quick run. I never run in and out because that's tedious af. I do one run. Plenty of nights to do more. If you are doing 3x4, yea you won't have the time, if you do 2 runs though, you'll probably have time left over. Either way, are you really farming eidolons every single night of the game? Well, after you get enough for your amp (I found this surprisingly fast and I have done... some extra amps based on meta differences and for no particular reason,)  you apparently don't need those exodias.

Are you meleeing the eidolons, because besides farming credits, supplies etc, you'll be doing eidolons any other time, because eidolons eat supplies and there's no mission payout, unlike *cough* raids, fix this and pay us *cough* Or you could occasionally take roughly 10 to 15 mins (don't worry about doing laps around the lake, you do know they umm don't respawn while you are in the instance unless you do the run out and back in thing I advise not doing.) Of course, you can make it last all night if you get bored and want to cover every puddle, but you could also just cover things like the lake and its river and tributary, Hek's Stilleto, and Twin Horns, then consider yourself finished for the night.

Hell, play a diff frame and go solo the teralyst while you are there. Either get stuff for yourself or to sell. Also a teeny jump in focus.

It's really just a matter of being resourceful, furthermore, have you never had to grind out materials and farm heavily in this game? My early days were nonstop leveling MR and farming. (Derelict survival is kickass for multitasking that. Watched everyone complain about the Hema, and our clan had it started building immediately.)

Honeslty farming condrocs for tower white is currently more obnoxious to me because I want to be able to go back to saying the clan's research is at 100% sans ignis wraith. (we should just get a bigger clan to have someone donate a bunch to us that we can pass out honestly, If you pay more than 1p for those, you are getting ripped off.)

Depending on how long you are on, there are sooo many nights in a play session, too. I have been sitting here, feeling icky. And in the process 15 mins before night and 15 mins before day I get a warning ding. So I am aware I have skipped a lot of nights that could have gained me wisps or arcanes or whatever. (focus so I can move on to the last tree once I finish this waybound.)

Anyway, seems like making a mountain out of a molehill. I find PoE a lot of fun though, you know, now that 75% of the game breaking bugs are fixed. Just wish Onslaught would be scrapped and they'd actually fix those bugs. ^{Also please pay us for eidolons.}

That 26k standing gets you 2 wisps per day with an extra every second day, great for gilding but near useless without massive time sink for armour, amps, magus, and exodias. Even if you space your farm out over weeks it's still a hell of a lot of wisps to farm. 50 for amp, 70 for armour, 100 for magus etc. Yeah boosters help but not everyone can afford to buy them, we either have to get lucky with login rewards or lucky with baro every 2 weeks.

As was said before all loot detector mods, all run speed mods, volt built for speed spam, smeeta kavat. You also can't trust the loot detector 100% because goddamn trees and iradite like to hug the beaches too, several of which can spawn in cetus wisp spawn locations and the non wisp objects sometimes hide behind rocks so you don't know you've wasted time before getting close to them.

Yeah if I could I would be running the eidolons every night because I couldn't properly participate in raids due to health issues exacerbated by the duration of the mission, meaning I have no arcanes which since the addition of onslaught become very important for certain frames to effectively survive and fight at high level. I can't solo eidolons and if I am in a group I need to be carried because their effects are so pervasive they trigger sensory sensitivity syndrome and panic attacks. If I fight eidolons all night I have to take an immediate break after until my body recovers. It's either eidolon or wisp I can't do both.

It's not a matter of being resourceful at all, wisp farming is dead easy. It is a matter of tedium and burnout. IT. IS. NOT. FUN. AND. NOT. ENGAGING. TO. RUN. LAPS. FOR. WISPS.

[rune_me]

2 minutes ago, Drasiel said:

For you maybe, for others that won't be case. I'm not sure if you are just pointing out your experiences or you actively don't want wisps changed.

They can change wisps. hey, faster farming for me. I'm just saying, if they change wisps but don't change fishing or mining as well, some people might be angry. Myself included (well not really, because I have farmed most of what I need by now) and argue "but I need gems not wisps, so why are you not also making it easier for me". Gems and wisps are both needed in very high numbers to craft all the gear arcanes from PoE.

[blink8888]

I have no problem running a wisp farm during a night time cycle, there's one time when I got my holiday I just spend a whole day to farm wisp with the booster I got from my friend, and I managed to gathered up like around 1k+ wisp after doing like the wisp farm for 6 times in a single day. (Booster and Smeeta kavat works wonder here ❤️ )

But I do have problem with the current standings that are needed to buy 1 cetus wisp from Quill onkko since my max limit of standings per day are 26k (MR 25), and I most likely only be able to get only 2 of it per day if didn't stock up the standings fully, at least they can try to reduce the price for it? I would not suggest to reduce it as low as how much it is on the Nakak Opperational supply during Plague star event since you can stock up the Opperational supply standings without worrying about cap limit per day, but at least you can reduce the price around 2000 or 5000 standings for each piece because of the fact that you can only get small amount of it from Onkko, since you are limited by the quill standings per day.

[Drasiel]

22 minutes ago, rune_me said:

They can change wisps. hey, faster farming for me. I'm just saying, if they change wisps but don't change fishing or mining as well, some people might be angry. Myself included (well not really, because I have farmed most of what I need by now) and argue "but I need gems not wisps, so why are you not also making it easier for me". Gems and wisps are both needed in very high numbers to craft all the gear arcanes from PoE.

My thread is about wisps which Is why I'm not discussing the eidolon gems. That doesn't invalidate the complaint about gems, it's just not the place for it here. But I'll tell you what If wisps get changed I'll make a thread about Eidolon gems 😄

[ChaoticEdge]

On 2018-05-21 at 12:56 AM, Drasiel said:

Farming wisps is boring and makes me want to punch myself in the face as that would be more enjoyable. 

Things I hate about wisps:

- easier to see in the day but harder to find

-easier to find at night requires skipping eidolon runs

- too low quantity from bounties compared to map exploring 

- too inconsistent drops from bounties compared to map exploring

- wisps from onko too expensive 

- wisps from onko standing limit severely limits purchase. 

- wisps ignore vaccum meaning drive by pickups are harder often requiring slow down upon wisp spotting

- very large amounts required for Blue prints (15 -20 per piece)

- required for gilding

But the biggest complaint about wisps is an issue core to their existence. Warframe is a shooty, magic using, mobility game. Farming wisps includes none of that. Farming wisps is a track and field simulator. Run around all the puddles kids and make sure to pass all the checkpoints. It's not engaging, it's not fun, and looking at the required 55 wisps for the amp I want to build makes me feel sick. I hate this so much I wish I could just buy them instead of be forced to run yet another lap around plain's ponds. Even a booster doesn't make this palatable I still have to run the same path just a few runs less. 

Please consider making bounty wisp rewards larger. Decreasing the cost of wisps from onko, or severely reducing the amount of required wisps in blueprints. 

yea they are annoying, I mean they aren't the only one hard to find its also thous ores thingy thous two type gem, Pain the grip going deep in the cave and lost your way getting out...it sux...

On 2018-05-21 at 1:05 AM, Naftal said:

Plains of Eidolon in a nutshell.

true PoE is in a nutshell...wait until venus Plains, then another nutshell begin!

[SpicyDinosaur]

3 hours ago, blink8888 said:

I have no problem running a wisp farm during a night time cycle, there's one time when I got my holiday I just spend a whole day to farm wisp with the booster I got from my friend, and I managed to gathered up like around 1k+ wisp after doing like the wisp farm for 6 times in a single day. (Booster and Smeeta kavat works wonder here ❤️ )

But I do have problem with the current standings that are needed to buy 1 cetus wisp from Quill onkko since my max limit of standings per day are 26k (MR 25), and I most likely only be able to get only 2 of it per day if didn't stock up the standings fully, at least they can try to reduce the price for it? I would not suggest to reduce it as low as how much it is on the Nakak Opperational supply during Plague star event since you can stock up the Opperational supply standings without worrying about cap limit per day, but at least you can reduce the price around 2000 or 5000 standings for each piece because of the fact that you can only get small amount of it from Onkko, since you are limited by the quill standings per day.

 

Just wanted to say thank you for the actual math on that. No idea how I or anyone else with 26k of faction in...various things would be MR29. Is that possible? Even for founders?

 

Also, to everyone else, your nerd rage on this isn't anymore valid than my nerd rage on other things, though tbh, the trying to flip the tables on me doesn't really work. I'm not really enraged by anything currently except: 

 

A draconion platinum fraud policy that causes whoever is holding the plat at the end of the day to have their account locked for however tf much the plat is. Which can affect anyone, but mostly those buying and selling in large amounts. What's that? You got 5k for that riven? Well Mr.Bill got his credit card to refund him the money and now you're account is locked for well over $200. Have fun with that. Doesn't matter if you're a warframe partner on Twitch or Youtube or whatever either. That should make everyone rage much harder than this imo, and no one ever seems to know about this. (Also, this post will now possibly get deleted. It happens most times.)

 

Anyway, rant aside, I compain about grinding up resources, needing credits etc, but it isn't the end of the world. I am ultimately poor, have done enough raids long ago and having enough to keep me for some time, because those damn valentine's day statues cost a millian each and I bought 20 of them because everyone was making a shrine. So the credits are my own stupid fault that could be fixed by living in index for a little while. I enjoy it but find it hard to get started. Also, I still want to meet John Prodman.

 

I think farming polymers bundles would be inveitable for me anyway, I eat energy pizzas like crazy, even when throwing max efficiency in my build. I do it at the beginning of missions and the only time I actually act efficient about it is when I am down to 20 of them, instead of at maybe 200=250. The real problem, is the 9.5k cost, which adds up really really fast. Again, this was not an issue I experienced with raids. I do think they should pay us. Getting the mission is, of course, entirely unecessary. But for those who do maybe we could get, you know, a small stipend just for one less thing to farm. I might be more lazy about it, but I still have had to farm up at this point almost that 555 cetus wisps. And I have a huge excess of amps. New complaint I just thought of, seriously, why can't I turn these amps in for over cap faction? Is that really that big a deal? How many people are going to make amps for faction? They fixed that being an issue.

 

Also shards being underground recently and at the front gate. Are we going to get banned for retrieving them like the people that found what seemed like an honestly rather innocuous exploit re: focus and I believe started with a similar issue? (am I confusing two issues? There were so many bugs starting out.)

 

It's funny I was more enraged by the ESO bugs being so game breaking and massive, and I hate even the concept of ESO. But I don't know how they managed to rush something out like that and miss -that much stuff-.

 

When I adminned for a MUD (an admittedly much smaller type of game, and while it requires other things, it doesn't require graphics etc, but some of the weird issues you think would be graphics related often pop up in a text game, usually with an easier fix.) the only time I saw things so utterly broken was when the person invovled that coded, say the area being released, didn't know how to code to save their life. Most of the time I would just go in and fix it, especially if they were old problems for areas I liked as a player. Then I would wonder how I had to put up with so much effort getting my areas approved, arguing about placement etc, when jesus, these places got approved half done. There was this one area though, and the woman who released it was head builder. Unfortunately she was mostly good with grammar, which was necessary, but absolutely sucked at programming with the internal language or at all, and I guess her and someone else had collaberated on it. They were gone by then. That thing was such a wreck I would have had to seriously shut it entirely down and take a month or so working through the issues and trying to figure some of them out simply because even some of the elements involved weren't really...easily possible with our limitations?

 

I am overly verbose and that was kind of long but let me turn around and find the point. I don't know how the Onslaughts could have been tested and greenlit unless they just flat out wanted to get it out asap and figured they'd fix the flaws later. I really do expect a number of bugs upon release. There is almost no way to avoid that, but I mean really? really? DE is usually a bit better than that, even with PoE. I think they probably need to slow down a bit. I mean I'm not complaining for some of the ridiculous stuff I see posted on every single update post ever, but just a general attention to details and potential problems or obvious and known existing problems. Do people test these at all?

 

So back to the fury and anger re: wisps and why my opinion is less valid than yours and somehow I am invalidating you or whevs. Let me try to be more sensitive, (I actually thought I was, even with the dismissing I did do. I also offered some advice on how to ease the frustration, but nobody cares about advice when frothing at the mouth.) I have gone through well over the 555 wisps. Sometimes I didn't really feel it or look forward to it. RE: those 4 exodia arcanes waiting for my attention. But I have been pretty ill lately (and had a super virus type cold for a month and a half, followed by continuing nausea. Man feeling nauseous will sap the heck out of your motivation.)

 

I think doing the 323 I was somewhat unmotivated, but at the time I also only thought to get wisps during the day, and frankly if you are doing that, (and I know this isn't your complaint.) Seriously, don't. It is unrewarding and I would get so frustrated.

 

Get the crappiest smeeta you can get to save you plat if you can. Like, heck, I may have a couple complete imprints of a few persians (not sure which breed, sadly) that might help, especially if you can't afford boosters. Don't try to buy a 3 day booster and rush through it in 3 days or something though. That would make me miserable for sure. Like the biggest complaint seems to be the grind, and if you intend to do eidolons, I think it is either a 121 or a 212 will work for a cheap and low rank halfway point until you can build either a 323 or a 223. Not perfect, but a lot easier to farm. 323 etc would require max standing anyway. The irritating part is, of course, who wants to do eidolons with someone using a mote amp, (not that I don't run into that way too much with PUBs,) but the fastest way to not have a mote amp is...eidolons. lol. Jesus just don't bring like...Loki and an ignis wraith. Or bring a frame you are literally using in an entirely opposite way than required, and get arrogant and argue with the rest of the group when they try to encourage you to, you know, realize what your actual job is, (on the flipside, don't abuse people trying to learn. I've been in both situations.)

 

I've also umm, totaly not flown low around a few key areas while other people are screwing around getting lures before putting their shard in, (despite my requests to not do that.) Totally never done that. Or gained maybe 2 to 4 wisps just messing around in that way. As for "running into them" which someone mentioned, unless I have been intetionally looking for them while also trying to charge a lure or whatever, I never accidentally find wisps. That's hard to do because they want to flitter up so easily if you don't walk through them properly the first time. I always make sure I see exactly where they are at before I grab them.

 

I wonder if this will publish. I am feeling ill again and went all over the place. I still think at least trying some of the things I've suggested would relieve the anger if you are willing to give it a shot. Perhaps it was unfair to invalidate your complaints by calling them "making a mountain out of a molehill" If you have already done every single thing I suggested, then my only words are, if you do eidolons, amp is priority, then nothing else is super important. The status exodia is, imo, very nice. But just accept that it's a slow walk instead of a sprint to the finish. I think some people feel they have to grind everything up immediately, and I can relate, but illness has made me slow down a lot. Less frustration.

 

Also Onkko's cetus wisps are meant to be supplementary. I also wish they'd up the cap or let there be certain ways to get past the cap, as there is with syndicates. The wisps came out when I had finsihed every single operator arcane available and had/have about 5 amps. One just because I had spare parts and just needed one more piece. So, perhaps for me and some people, they were more a relief that we could be a tad lazy and add to any farming with a small supply with faction we had nothing else to do with. No, not everyone has 26k faction for things, I am aware of that, (though you too could have as much if you mindlessly grinded out weapon after weapon, archwings, made sure to farm fissures enough to have some garbage to throw at baro for every single thing he has etc etc.) 

 

Also a reminder of that digital tennocon ticket if you can afford it, $20. But also, someone did the math on getting everything and it was... a lot. But if you have weapons you want, (the entire list for everything ever is on the wiki, it will all be there,) save up junk. skip buying from baro for now unless it is one of those really important things you want, but I would add up the price of credits and ducts because seriously, that adds up, and it will make grinding cetus wisps look fun. *Especially with annoying people that want to do endless fissure missions for like 15 minutes, wtf.*

 

So nerd rage aside that we are all feeling, have you tried my suggestions? Have you tried things that might make collecting wisps less... painful? I used to obsessively do the sorties everyday. Then I got tired of doing them constantly, even though I am like the only one who enjoys almost every reward. I was exhausted all the time and like the defections at level 100 with random people are kind of...frustrating. Spies I just usually do alone, because people show up as either anything but a stealth frame and think they can be cowboys and show how they know all the secret pathways, when I just want to be sure we, you know, succeed on the first try, or it's Lua, and no one knows the spy areas at all. I honestly only know two, and I like spies. I just don't like obstacle courses in any way at all. I am waaay too slow and meticulous. 

 

Point being, I stopped doing them every day. I slowed down, eased up. No one is forcing you to farm cetus wisps every single night or even RL day. Farm at night, put loot detector and thieves with on to see the boxes forever. Scream in fury when a box is a mariproco tree instead of a wisp, or a crate or something like that. Get a cheap smeeta. (eventually, you can always get the wykar armor for the persians and cover up the smooshed face, or get that one skin from cetus.) Maybe use zephyr or whatever frame you feel is best. Hell, only cover the three primary places. on the RL days you feel like it. Speaking of which, never do it during the PoE day. If you do PUBs for eidolons, you might get say 10 mins at the end and if you are not tired from the run, just suit up and vault back in there, do one single run through, and go back to your orbitor to review your booty. Something I just recalled, if the vomvalysts annoy you, grab several lures if you know the spots. They will keep them out of the way, though they might also get in your way while trying to get wisps. I have notice they do a lock of getting in the way since the supposed problem of them doing that (which I never personally noticed,) was "fixed."

 

Congratulations, you've read my thesis on Nerd Rage: what can we do about it and why is it a thing?

 

Edit: I've -easily- found gems 1 per 3 plat on market. I know not everyone has like any plat at all, but sell some scrap parts or statues and you suddenly have enough for those rare gems. Also, for some weird reason, when I needed sentirum, I got all heart nyth, now I need heart nyth, and get all sentirum.

 

I've given up. I like that kind of stuff, it's relaxing. But I got tired of every blue vein being such a huge dissapointment until I felt like there was no chance at all of getting what I needed. Either way, since you also have to farm 10 cetus wisps, sometimes it would take a short time before I needed the 3 heart nyth again. But the weird lack of them lately has me just buying them, as they are at a record low.

Edited May 24, 2018 by SpicyDinosaur

[ARKANOiiDe]

If you find a good route for yourself that works decently, buy a resource booster and it can go pretty quickly, i was getting 8-10 in a couple of minutes runs. The major complain i would have with Whisps is that you need to spend precious night time to farm them, where you could just capture eidolons. They should have the same chance to appear in day time. Fishing is by far the easiest of the 3 farming activities, you exactly know where and when to find what you are looking for. Farming eidolon gems on the other hand, now THAT is a pain...

[blink8888]

2 hours ago, ARKANOiiDe said:

If you find a good route for yourself that works decently, buy a resource booster and it can go pretty quickly, i was getting 8-10 in a couple of minutes runs. The major complain i would have with Whisps is that you need to spend precious night time to farm them, where you could just capture eidolons. They should have the same chance to appear in day time. Fishing is by far the easiest of the 3 farming activities, you exactly know where and when to find what you are looking for. Farming eidolon gems on the other hand, now THAT is a pain...

Average amount of wisps that I got during a 2-3 minutes run with Nova + Loot detector and Sentinel + Animal instinct (including resources booster) are around 4-10 wisps, at one point I got so lucky and I managed to get like 16 wisps in one run as well XD (If I remember it's around dawn during the time I got like 16 wisps).

I just wish that they give the same amount of wisp spawn on day time as well, would really love to just farm Eidolon during night time 😢 

[Altre]

I'm sure that I'm not the only mr24 that has played for 5 years and done almost every grind available. There is no rage, just irritation. I find it odd that no one is addressing my comparison of invalidating our complaints with personal rng experience being equivalent to me invalidating other people complaining about afk players or excess resources somehow burning holes in their computer (please read: figuratively). I don't want to spend personal money or trade earned plat on rng boosters. I would straight up rather buy a solid product than a lootbox-esque chance at maybe acquiring more of one item in a vacuum grind.

It's not an opinion that anyone has that is wrong, it's the assumption we simply haven't tried any published methods of farming. We have tried these and are now being told repeatedly that we just don't know how to farm them or that we're not doing something right. Slapping loot radar on every piece of gear you have and using your preferred method of Sonic speed is not difficult. Getting these things is wholly rng based. I wish I could put you in my shoes. Runs getting maybe 3 or 4, maybe 2 or 3, sometimes more, sometimes less is purely rng.

Some of you are obviously falling on the favored side of it, but I guaran-effing-tee you that you would be bothered by the fact that you can barely seem to acquire an essential and literally randomly hidden resource with what limited time you may have available with the game.

Simple solution: let players trade. I will literally give you plat or mods either for the parts that wisps compose or for the damn things themselves. Why is that such a big deal to ask for?

A fun example of making mountains out of molehills: yesterday, I visited the porcelain workshop to drop off some lumber and when I came out, it occurred to me that it was our 4 year olds bed time. I said, "Buddy, this is the last match you can play for today, it's bed time (out of quote: I've recently found the only game he enjoys is Smash Bros). You can play tomorrow if we have a good day, ok?" My gf comes out of his room and tells me that I don't need to tell him because she just told him that. I say ok, that it's not going to hurt him to hear it again. He's fine and happy finishing the match and I wasn't being mean. She then asks why I'm mad so suddenly, it's like we were all happy and joking until I went to the restroom. I say I'm not mad and inquire about how me being confused that telling him that it's almost bedtime was somehow harmful to him and how it gives her the idea that I'm now mad. It kept going until we went off to continue packing for our upcoming move.

The moral of this story is that assuming people are angry, foaming at the mouth, or lacking logical methodology (purely based on the topic, not my story lol) for defending their words without context showing them where they were perceived to be angry or using invalid logic and given chance to de-escalate the conversation will usually cause further disparity between the potential to bring about a productive consensus and simply debating in circles in the same futile format wisp farming itself has been for us.

DE, just let us trade the damn things.

Edited May 24, 2018 by Altre

[SpicyDinosaur]

I don't generally rage much, you saw what I get angry about, and I feel that is a much bigger issue than most other complaints tbh.

 

I'm sorry if you feel invalidated somehow, I tried to address that, but at this point, you aren't hearing it. You aren't taking advice etc etc, just complaining.

 

And re: foaming at the mouth... Yea that was based on your POST. But thanks for the assumptions, fellow.

 

Do you generally find that you feel persecuted and that everyone else is wrong/dumb/etc compared to you. Because it sure feels like it.

[Altre]

5 minutes ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

I don't generally rage much, you saw what I get angry about, and I feel that is a much bigger issue than most other complaints tbh.

 

I'm sorry if you feel invalidated somehow, I tried to address that, but at this point, you aren't hearing it. You aren't taking advice etc etc, just complaining.

 

And re: foaming at the mouth... Yea that was based on your POST. But thanks for the assumptions, fellow.

 

Do you generally find that you feel persecuted and that everyone else is wrong/dumb/etc compared to you. Because it sure feels like it.

Quote my rage, please. I haven't put you down, I haven't given ad hominem attacks, I haven't assumed anything, I just request logic. If you can find where I have done any of these, quote it and you will get a deserved apology. I'm sure you're not a bad person and you weren't attacking anyone. I never said anyone invalidated ME, they've just invalidated the idea that this very thread is about and without sound reason that isn't anecdotal. You just gave advice based on anecdotal experiences. To quote myself on not overlooking your advice-

6 hours ago, Altre said:

I'm sure that I'm not the only mr24 that has played for 5 years and done almost every grind available.

It's not very descriptive, but the point is I've tried almost every posted method that I've found with no consistent success. There is no reason to dismiss things that you consider to be less of a big deal than other problems. Everyone has something that gets under their skin, we are allowed that as humans.

I think you may have read my posts that responded to that Buttaface guy. He did cause grief, but he had blatantly inflammatory comments all over. My responses were primarily to him. I apologize if you felt heat from those. I also certainly do not feel superior to others "all the time". I'm just tired of people not using logic when counter-arguing people posting their feedback on the feedback forums.

Goodwill and all that jazz. lol

[Drasiel]

16 hours ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

 

Just wanted to say thank you for the actual math on that. No idea how I or anyone else with 26k of faction in...various things would be MR29. Is that possible? Even for founders?

Also, to everyone else, your nerd rage on this isn't anymore valid than my nerd rage on other things, though tbh, the trying to flip the tables on me doesn't really work. I'm not really enraged by anything currently except: 

<snip>

So back to the fury and anger re: wisps and why my opinion is less valid than yours and somehow I am invalidating you or whevs. Let me try to be more sensitive, (I actually thought I was, even with the dismissing I did do. I also offered some advice on how to ease the frustration, but nobody cares about advice when frothing at the mouth.) I have gone through well over the 555 wisps. Sometimes I didn't really feel it or look forward to it. RE: those 4 exodia arcanes waiting for my attention. But I have been pretty ill lately (and had a super virus type cold for a month and a half, followed by continuing nausea. Man feeling nauseous will sap the heck out of your motivation.)

I think doing the 323 I was somewhat unmotivated, but at the time I also only thought to get wisps during the day, and frankly if you are doing that, (and I know this isn't your complaint.) Seriously, don't. It is unrewarding and I would get so frustrated.

Get the crappiest smeeta you can get to save you plat if you can. Like, heck, I may have a couple complete imprints of a few persians (not sure which breed, sadly) that might help, especially if you can't afford boosters. Don't try to buy a 3 day booster and rush through it in 3 days or something though. That would make me miserable for sure. Like the biggest complaint seems to be the grind, and if you intend to do eidolons, I think it is either a 121 or a 212 will work for a cheap and low rank halfway point until you can build either a 323 or a 223. Not perfect, but a lot easier to farm. 323 etc would require max standing anyway. The irritating part is, of course, who wants to do eidolons with someone using a mote amp, (not that I don't run into that way too much with PUBs,) but the fastest way to not have a mote amp is...eidolons. lol. Jesus just don't bring like...Loki and an ignis wraith. Or bring a frame you are literally using in an entirely opposite way than required, and get arrogant and argue with the rest of the group when they try to encourage you to, you know, realize what your actual job is, (on the flipside, don't abuse people trying to learn. I've been in both situations.)

I've also umm, totaly not flown low around a few key areas while other people are screwing around getting lures before putting their shard in, (despite my requests to not do that.) Totally never done that. Or gained maybe 2 to 4 wisps just messing around in that way. As for "running into them" which someone mentioned, unless I have been intetionally looking for them while also trying to charge a lure or whatever, I never accidentally find wisps. That's hard to do because they want to flitter up so easily if you don't walk through them properly the first time. I always make sure I see exactly where they are at before I grab them.

Also Onkko's cetus wisps are meant to be supplementary. I also wish they'd up the cap or let there be certain ways to get past the cap, as there is with syndicates. The wisps came out when I had finsihed every single operator arcane available and had/have about 5 amps. One just because I had spare parts and just needed one more piece. So, perhaps for me and some people, they were more a relief that we could be a tad lazy and add to any farming with a small supply with faction we had nothing else to do with. No, not everyone has 26k faction for things, I am aware of that, (though you too could have as much if you mindlessly grinded out weapon after weapon, archwings, made sure to farm fissures enough to have some garbage to throw at baro for every single thing he has etc etc.) 

<snip>

So nerd rage aside that we are all feeling, have you tried my suggestions? Have you tried things that might make collecting wisps less... painful? I used to obsessively do the sorties everyday. Then I got tired of doing them constantly, even though I am like the only one who enjoys almost every reward. I was exhausted all the time and like the defections at level 100 with random people are kind of...frustrating. Spies I just usually do alone, because people show up as either anything but a stealth frame and think they can be cowboys and show how they know all the secret pathways, when I just want to be sure we, you know, succeed on the first try, or it's Lua, and no one knows the spy areas at all. I honestly only know two, and I like spies. I just don't like obstacle courses in any way at all. I am waaay too slow and meticulous. 

Point being, I stopped doing them every day. I slowed down, eased up. No one is forcing you to farm cetus wisps every single night or even RL day. Farm at night, put loot detector and thieves with on to see the boxes forever. Scream in fury when a box is a mariproco tree instead of a wisp, or a crate or something like that. Get a cheap smeeta. (eventually, you can always get the wykar armor for the persians and cover up the smooshed face, or get that one skin from cetus.) Maybe use zephyr or whatever frame you feel is best. Hell, only cover the three primary places. on the RL days you feel like it. Speaking of which, never do it during the PoE day. If you do PUBs for eidolons, you might get say 10 mins at the end and if you are not tired from the run, just suit up and vault back in there, do one single run through, and go back to your orbitor to review your booty. Something I just recalled, if the vomvalysts annoy you, grab several lures if you know the spots. They will keep them out of the way, though they might also get in your way while trying to get wisps. I have notice they do a lock of getting in the way since the supposed problem of them doing that (which I never personally noticed,) was "fixed."

Congratulations, you've read my thesis on Nerd Rage: what can we do about it and why is it a thing?

Edit: I've -easily- found gems 1 per 3 plat on market. I know not everyone has like any plat at all, but sell some scrap parts or statues and you suddenly have enough for those rare gems. Also, for some weird reason, when I needed sentirum, I got all heart nyth, now I need heart nyth, and get all sentirum.

I've given up. I like that kind of stuff, it's relaxing. But I got tired of every blue vein being such a huge dissapointment until I felt like there was no chance at all of getting what I needed. Either way, since you also have to farm 10 cetus wisps, sometimes it would take a short time before I needed the 3 heart nyth again. But the weird lack of them lately has me just buying them, as they are at a record low.

I've cut out all of your off topic comments about other issues in the game. This thread is about wisps not any of those other things they have no place here, find the appropriate threads to put those comments in please.

You haven't been listening (reading?) We are already using standard wisp farming behaviors but because of the RNG nature of wisp spawns and spawn locations our yields from the same behaviors will not necessarily line up with yours. If you have nothing left to farm but the items that require wisps then yeah you are going to be doing wisps every day. 

At 2 per day with an extra wisp every 3rd day onkko's wisps aren't supplementary at all they take more time and effort than a full lap around the wisps loop. 10k standing which will be 100 intact sentient cores (vomvalysts), 20 exceptional sentient cores (eidolon fight, chance for batalyst/conculyst), Or ~9 flawless sentient cores (eidolon capture). 

There isn't "nerd rage" going on here there is frustration at a boring, tedious and mind numbing process. People telling us we are not farming right because we don't get the same yields as them and leaving insults about us whining or playing the game poorly are getting equally tiring frankly. We don't need you to give us advice we are already using those methods, the problem isn't us it's the goddamn wisps.

 

[Rhinkalis]

I mean, I, personally, view this as, possibly even less of a "personal experience" question, and as a "game design" question.  I don't think the Wisps (or the hyper rare gemstones, since it's been brought up) are good fits or well designed for this game.  Like, I don't know, there are games out there where scouring a map just to come up with your resources, or having a small chance to get something super valuable from your mining or something are reasonable inclusions.  Toss a Minecraft or something out there where the entire gameplay loop is basically "Walk around a map to gather resources to make stuff."

 

Now, there are actually points of commonality with WF there.  There's a lot of running around maps to gather resources to craft stuff in WF, but I don't think I need to explain how, from base concept up, these games are deeply different.  What's possibly good for one isn't good for the other.

 

But as for this game, I don't really think systems based on spending hours not engaging in the core gameplay (IE: Being ninja space wizards =P) as a mandatory part of crafting important items (as I haven't seen anyone claim that getting their stacks of Cetus Wisps didn't take hours, just that it wasn't thaaaat many hours or that those hours weren't actually that bad) is a good inclusion.

 

So, no emotions, no attacks, just, straightforwards, is there any way that the setup for the Wisps contribute positively, or even non-negatively, to the experience of WF as a counterweight to the associated tedium of their gathering?  As I don't seem to have seen anyone say they found it...  Not boring/unengaging/tedious, it was just a question of how much they cared/had a problem/w/e with it.  So, is there anything anyone has to recommend the system outside of "Well I don't think it's as bad as you think it is"?  Is there anything about it that's a good piece of game design?  And if not, is there any reason it would be inappropriate for someone to bring this up in the game's feedback forum?

Edited May 24, 2018 by Rhinkalis

[Drasiel]

On 2018-05-24 at 3:45 PM, Rhinkalis said:

I mean, I, personally, view this as, possibly even less of a "personal experience" question, and as a "game design" question.  I don't think the Wisps (or the hyper rare gemstones, since it's been brought up) are good fits or well designed for this game.  Like, I don't know, there are games out there where scouring a map just to come up with your resources, or having a small chance to get something super valuable from your mining or something are reasonable inclusions.  Toss a Minecraft or something out there where the entire gameplay loop is basically "Walk around a map to gather resources to make stuff."

 

Now, there are actually points of commonality with WF there.  There's a lot of running around maps to gather resources to craft stuff in WF, but I don't think I need to explain how, from base concept up, these games are deeply different.  What's possibly good for one isn't good for the other.

 

But as for this game, I don't really think systems based on spending hours not engaging in the core gameplay (IE: Being ninja space wizards =P) as a mandatory part of crafting important items (as I haven't seen anyone claim that getting their stacks of Cetus Wisps didn't take hours, just that it wasn't thaaaat many hours or that those hours weren't actually that bad) is a good inclusion.

 

So, no emotions, no attacks, just, straightforwards, is there any way that the setup for the Wisps contribute positively, or even non-negatively, to the experience of WF as a counterweight to the associated tedium of their gathering?  As I don't seem to have seen anyone say they found it...  Not boring/unengaging/tedious, it was just a question of how much they cared/had a problem/w/e with it.  So, is there anything anyone has to recommend the system outside of "Well I don't think it's as bad as you think it is"?  Is there anything about it that's a good piece of game design?  And if not, is there any reason it would be inappropriate for someone to bring this up in the game's feedback forum?

yes this it's a more erudite version of how I feel about them. Honestly I would really love to hear other ways to change the wisp farm too, a change from either requirements or method could definitely make them more engaging. 

[Drasiel]

Alternate suggestions for more wisp locations.

• Eidolon captures or kills award some
• Grineer Caches contain some
• Add them to incursion drop tables