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What Is Khora Supposed To Be...?


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Like... I am confused here.

Every Warframe has a relatively coherent theme so far.

Ash, Ninja. Nekros, Necromancer. Excalibur, Swordsman. Limbo, Interdimensional Void Space Wizard!

And then we get to Khora, the crazy-cat-living-metal-healing-puppet-master-dominatrix-thing? You see? Limbo sounds like he makes more sense than Khora.

See DE? When you try to push for a Frame that you really want to release, you theme goes all over the place, and that's even reflected in her abilities.

Her first does damage, fair enough. Her second and fourth do essentially the same thing except one makes enemies shoot at other enemies for... what again? And her third is also her passive and on top of that it has attack mode (fair enough, it's a wild "metal" Kavat), defense mode which disarms enemies (fair enough, commanding a Kavat) and... heal mode? Since when do cats heal?

Hopefully you guys don't go off the rails with your next Warframe (it'd be easy if it's something from the Forums).

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I absolutely agree, I personally only find her first ability fun, and the rest of her abilities boring. Let’s be real here for a second, all of her abilities are already in the game. Whipclaw is Wukong’s 1, Gara’s 1 etc. Ensnare is Ferrox’s alt fire, and Venari is just another kavat that cosmetically looks different. Strangledome is Harrow’s Condem and Vauban’s Vortex into one ability. Her kit is plain boring because they mashed so much into one frame which has too many identity’s, she really has no exact theme, which is bad. 

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5 minutes ago, xXDeadsinxX said:

I absolutely agree, I personally only find her first ability fun, and the rest of her abilities boring. Let’s be real here for a second, all of her abilities are already in the game. Whipclaw is Wukong’s 1, Gara’s 1 etc. Ensnare is Ferrox’s alt fire, and Venari is just another kavat that cosmetically looks different. Strangledome is Harrow’s Condem and Vauban’s Vortex into one ability. Her kit is plain boring because they mashed so much into one frame which has too many identity’s, she really has no exact theme, which is bad. 

It's actually kinda' sad, 'cause I had high hopes for her with her being in development for almost as long as the game as existed and all, but her entire being is just screaming "I was rushed!"

6 minutes ago, -BM-Mitz said:

She's a cat lady fashioned as a dominatrix with a whip. I dont think it's that confusing as far as theme goes.

A cat lady with the mystical properties of healing and a whip that is also it's own entity and can make you shoot at your friends.

If that doesn't sound confusing I don't know what is.

5 minutes ago, VadiseReikaz said:

She USED to be a Grineer Cat Lady, until Tyl Regor just couldnt help himself.

Oh my...

10 minutes ago, Prof.549 said:

MR fodder

OOF

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1 minute ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

It's actually kinda' sad, 'cause I had high hopes for her with her being in development for almost as long as the game as existed and all, but her entire being is just screaming "I was rushed!"

Yep, sadly. Hopefully she gets looked at again.

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and you need a theme because?.... 

a theme doesn't mean good abilities, and multiple themes doesn't mean bad abilities. it's about how creative they can get with the frame and it's abilities. and why does a healing kavat is an issue considering this is warframe and you can do all these crazy stuff already? 

giving your opinion on abilities is one thing, blaming it on an unrelated thing is another

and what's so freaking bad about having frames that do the same thing? you can't play the game with a handful of frames, plus diversity is a thing

also, just keep in mind she was redone to this state, she was a lot different before her 'rework' since they couldn't be bothered to do the new dmg types because it was too hard and the usual 'focusing on the next big thing' 

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10 minutes ago, GinKenshin said:

a theme doesn't mean good abilities, and multiple themes doesn't mean bad abilities. it's about how creative they can get with the frame and it's abilities. and why does a healing kavat is an issue considering this is warframe and you can do all these crazy stuff already? 

And yet it'd be an issue if we got a Lava Warframe that also has the tacked on mechanic of stopping time on all enemies effected. But nope, it's just creativity!

12 minutes ago, GinKenshin said:

giving your opinion on abilities is one thing, blaming it on an unrelated thing is another

LOL. No.

I am not blaming Khora's abilities on her weird theme. I said that her abilities are also all over the place, a trait her theme shares.

16 minutes ago, GinKenshin said:

and what's so freaking bad about having frames that do the same thing? you can't play the game with a handful of frames, plus diversity is a thing

There's nothing wrong with Frames doing the same thing, it's when they do the exact same thing but worse. Mag and Frost do the same thing with Crush and Avalanche.  Except there are noticeable differences. One throws enemies to the ground and restores team shields and Overshields. One freezes enemies and reduces armor.

18 minutes ago, GinKenshin said:

also, just keep in mind she was redone to this state

Redone and rushed. No excuse for her to be in such a state.

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Imagine you were creating a new frame and also working on a big update to an important system at the same time. Fans complain about the big update, so you decide to hold off on that. The new frame was directly connected to the system update, so you start trying out other ideas and trying to make something work. Since fans already know about this frame, they keep bugging you about it. You start getting annoyed because you've been reading too many negative comments and listening to youtubers. So you come up with an evil idea...

Fanboys will eat up whatever you give them so it's impossible to disappoint them. The only people you want to punish are the people who love to talk S#&$, so you decide to release a worthless frame. This is what DE did. Like many other frames, she will get a rework in the future. For now she is just the product of DE trolling us.

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How about Valkyr, Wu-kong, Nezha, and maybe Titania? To some extents even Zephyr.

See, you were doing fine when you were just talking about the frame role, but then you went on abilities too.
Valkyr- catframe with... laces and screams? I guess she's an hissy kitten, but, what about the laces? Since when she's a spooder? Cats play with laces? Yeah sure. That can make sense
Wu-kong, Nezha: ok, I'm taking the piss here because I know not of any chinese lore, but outside of that, what do they do? Wk immortal cloudy melee monkey with a stick, Nezha disco flaming slithering boyo? @.@ 
Titania: yeah k, fairy, but her abilities feel so random at this point. CC? Damage? Buffs?

Let's talk about Khora.
Main thing that made me chuckle: since when do cats heal? The answer is purring. It has been scientifically proven that purring provides theurapetic effects on hoomons.

How about we take it easier on trying to identify a frame ourselves, mh @.@?

 

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18 minutes ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

And yet it'd be an issue if we got a Lava Warframe that also has the tacked on mechanic of stopping time on all enemies effected. But nope, it's just creativity!

LOL. No.

I am not blaming Khora's abilities on her weird theme. I said that her abilities are also all over the place, a trait her theme shares.

There's nothing wrong with Frames doing the same thing, it's when they do the exact same thing but worse. Mag and Frost do the same thing with Crush and Avalanche.  Except there are noticeable differences. One throws enemies to the ground and restores team shields and Overshields. One freezes enemies and reduces armor.

Redone and rushed. No excuse for her to be in such a state.

- that's just a really bad example isn't it? limbo has the theme of the rift and 'dimensional' frame, though when he first came out his abilities basically did the same thing which is banishing stuff to the rift.....so here's a frame that had a good theme but crappy abilities 

chroma has 2 themes, dragon and elementalist and it shows well through his abilities, so he's an example of multiple themes with a 'good' ability set 

for your ridiculous example, why is it an issue exactly? is it because limbo already does it? 

again, the issue is creativity, if you can't see it that's your issue...all of the themes you stated for her are true and there's nothing wrong with that. 

 

- and the issue is? almost all frames have relatively the same abilities. a 1st that does dmg/cc, a 2nd that buffs/cc, a 3rd and 4th that does dmg/buff/cc. 'all over the place' is a crappy criticism and isn't even a bad thing, or do you want all frames to be divided into classes of dmg, cc and support?

- there's no issue with doing the same thing either, because that's just 1 ability out of 4, and you're not even counting the frame's looks. you don't have to always use 'the best' choice, that's where the game gets boring. no 2 frames are the same, period. 

 

- well, there is an excuse, because the players would go bananas if they don't get the frame they were shown a couple of times. I don't agree with the decision but I don't blame them either

and I hope you're not saying rushed because you 'think' she has similar abilities with other frames... 


you need to face the fact that creativity will eventually drop as the years go on, and it's very hard to make something entirely unique and without similarities, that's just how evolution works 

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18 minutes ago, Asdryu said:


Wu-kong, Nezha: ok, I'm taking the piss here because I know not of any chinese lore, but outside of that, what do they do? Wk immortal cloudy melee monkey with a stick,
 

Yeah thats the idea. A monkey character armed with a size changing rod that can walk on clouds. 

Another example would be goku from the dragonball series ( saiyans are kinda like monkeys, he has a power pole and he can call upon the flying nimbus cloud.)

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Crazy cat lady!!!

 

Other than that I currently see her MR fodder I havent collected since I havent gotten the DNA thingies and dont plan to put in effort to get them outside of alerts.

Edited by TeaVice
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4 hours ago, xXDeadsinxX said:

Whipclaw is Wukong’s 1

...HOW? Not only does it have the range of a freaking nuke, but it also has SO MUCH MORE SYNERGY with her other abilities. Iron Jab just...kinda exists...while Whipclaw is actually a viable weapon for Khora.

Ensnare is Ferrox’s alt fire

...which is just a worse magnetize. Unlike those two, however, Ensnare can actually trap stuff, not vaguely pull enemies towards a point they can easily escape from.

 and Venari is just another kavat that cosmetically looks different. 

...and can heal, and can take several positions, and can target enemies, and can actually viably slash proc enemies, etc.

Strangledome is Harrow’s Condem and Vauban’s Vortex into one ability.

Again, HOW? I mean, I can kinda see the Condemn...maybe, if I squint really hard and ignore how Strangledome is an AoE ability and seeks out tragets where Condemn is a straight line and requires direct trageting...but how in the bloody hell is it like Vortex? Hell, the deploy methods are completely different!

 

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Most frames have more than one aspect. Khora has two themes with one unifying element. One is lion tamer. She has a big cat and a whip. Pretty self-explanatory. The other is dominatrix. She ties people up, controls them (makes them hurt each other, because what good is being in control if you have to do all the work?), and again she has a whip. What's confusing? Is it the cat's healing? That was described as licking wounds clean. Take that as you will, but some degree of abstraction is necessary in order to make interesting gameplay.

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If you want ONE overarcing theme:

Weaver of Living Metal.

If I had to pick, I'd myself call her a Spiderframe of sorts. I mean, she looks spiderbased and uses "web" in various ways (then there's Dual Keres and Hystrix). Only odd thing is that cat of hers (could be because if she had a spider-pet, people could likely get triggered by arachnophobia I guess? *shrugs*). Maybe Khora just wanted a pet, so she "weaved up" a living metallical Kavat of her own? :

But that said, beyond her clearly being about using this "Living Metal" power of hers, I have come to like her unclear theme. To explain, I'll quote myself from another thread speaking about the very same subject:

 

On 2018-04-30 at 8:46 PM, Azamagon said:

There is a difference between theme and actual power useage. In terms of theme, she seems to have 2 main themes as far as I can see, but in regards to her power useage niche wise she is designed quite clearly, handling metal. In her case, her own "living" metal.

And not everything has to be so stereotypical (even though I do agreed with Khora being a slight bit messy).

Look at it like this:

Ash
Theme: Ninja
Actual powers: Smoke manipulation (easiest way to explain Teleport, and Bladestorms mobility too I guess?) + Metallical gadgets (Shuriken+Wristblades)

Ember
Theme: Phoenix
Actual powers: Fire manipulation

Loki
Theme: Trickster
Actual powers: Hmmmm... Space/Matter manipulation/distortion?

Nezha
Theme: "Nezha"
Actual powers: Fire / physical manipulation

Khora
Theme: Beastmaster / Spider Queen
Actual powers: Metal manipulation

So if you look at Loki, while his theme (and gameplay) is perfectly fine, his actual powers is a tad hard to pin down exactly. I can't explain it as one power.
Even moreso for Ash, his theme is very clear as a ninja. But what powers does he actually have? I can't explain it as one power.

And that's fine.

Khora, has the opposite "issue".

Her power useage is very clearly that of manipulating some particular metal, a "living" metal of sorts. That's why Venari is a metallical living being, and why both Strangledome and Ensnare automatically drags in enemies. And Whipclaw is just simply using it as a direct weapon.

But her theme... while I think Beastmaster could fit with some explanation for all abilities, I honestly would still vote on calling her the metalweaving Spider Queen. For these reasons:

  • She has a very spiderlike look, you can totally tell the inspiration from spiders.
  • Dual Keres - Her theme swords look a lot like spiderlegs.
  • Hystrix - Her theme pistol with a toxic (among other things) spider bite / spit, as its link towards the spider-theme. I get an insect-like vibe from its looks too.
  • Her Whipclaw is living metal web, woven into a form useable as a direct weapon.
  • Ensnare is living metal weaving its prey directly, like how spiders "cocoon" their prey.
  • Strangledome is a big living, metalwoven, domeshaped spiderweb, hanging its victims from the ceiling (again, giving it that vibe of spiders "cocooning" its prey on the web which they do to store them as future food)
  • But then there is Venari. Why is there a cat instead of a spider as her summoned pet? I think that's due to one simple reason: Arachnophobia. If Venari was a metal spider instead, I think her Spider theme would be crystalclear. But, with arachnophobia being one of (if not the most common) phobias in the world, I bet having a spider pet would scare away a lot of players. So they went with a cat instead, which fits with the other side of her theme anyway; The Beastmaster.

So, if nothing else, I see her as both a Spider Queen and a Beastmaster-esque frame. Just like I see Oberon as a Paladruid (Paladin + Druid). And I really don't have any problems with that *shrugs*.

 

On 2018-05-01 at 10:00 AM, Azamagon said:

So, while I earlier explained why I think she is mainly a metalweaving Spider Queen, I still have to say the following:

You know what I like DE does with Warframes quite often? That they sometimes don't have ONE particular theme or label. It shows openmindedness to me. And moreso, creativity.
Humans tend to want to categorize and label things, to stereotype (I personally do it a lot too, but I'm trying to stop doing it too much). It can tend to make us a rather "coldly scientific" society. With labels, we tend to group ourselves as "us and them", which is closeminded and unhealthy. But in reality, things AREN'T so easily categorized. Most things are better explained to be on various spectrums, things aren't black and white, but rather so a long greyscale.

Khora's many possible themes, to me, makes her feel more like a character, rather than just a tool. Just like any one hypothetical person, if you have to use labels to describe the person, isn't just (for example) an Aspberger, they are also a chess-lover, a great fan of industrial indie music, a swimmer, a Sherlock Holmes fan etc etc. A person is more than just a singular label. We are complex.

Khora, to me, feels like they catered a bit to that humane complexity and variety.

Khora is imo thus best explained as being... Khora.

 

Edited by Azamagon
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5 hours ago, Azamagon said:

If you want ONE overarcing theme:

Weaver of Living Metal.

If I had to pick, I'd myself call her a Spiderframe of sorts. I mean, she looks spiderbased and uses "web" in various ways (then there's Dual Keres and Hystrix). Only odd thing is that cat of hers (could be because if she had a spider-pet, people could likely get triggered by arachnophobia I guess? *shrugs*). Maybe Khora just wanted a pet, so she "weaved up" a living metallical Kavat of her own? :

But that said, beyond her clearly being about using this "Living Metal" power of hers, I have come to like her unclear theme. To explain, I'll quote myself from another thread speaking about the very same subject:

 

 

 

It's that exact complexity I have issue with. Either she's incoherant, or more of a character than a war frame.

 

It'd be one thing if she had a quest, but she doesn't. Frames, even those with more depth or history, have a simple, unifying theme.

Khora is a cat lady... And a dominatrix. And a... Vet? Field nurse? She's also magneto, so there's that. She's too many things, in my eyes, to be a frame, especially one with no story. Though the dominatrix bit would be hard to explain lore wise as WF is still kinda sorta pg-ish.

 

And there's just this overall thing about her, that screams rushed. It's like they had too many ideas for her and couldn't consolidate them into one concrete theme. I don't hate her but she is certainly flawed and, to me, kind of breaks with the consistancy of what frames 'are' overall.

Edited by BulletsforTeeth
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