[Warframe Rework Suggestion] Wukong: Smashing Ground Style {Focusing A Bit on Taking advantage of his Melee Passive}

[FoxFX]

[KEY WARFRAME'S WUKONG FACTS AND ISSUES TO ADDRESS]

• With the latest Devstream demonstrating the changes to Melee, there is some uncertainty on what Wukong's passive and his Primal Fury may turn out to be. For this article, we are going to just assume a few things for his rework
• Iron Jab as it is now will only hit one enemy it directly targets. Range mods will only increase the range and radius of the knockdown effect to it. Iron Jab also is affected by Riven Mods and hitting an enemy with Iron Jab increases the Combo Counter.
• @ Rank 30, Wukong has a base 150 Energy, and two of his abilities are channeling abilities that will drain a lot of energy out of him. Defy is one that keeps Wukong alive if he is ever killed. The other is Primal Fury which is an Exalted Staff.
• Cloud Walker provides immense but very slow free-space movement and vertical movement, entering and exiting from this ability causes stagger opening a very brief opportunity to use finishers, and does drain energy as you travel in it.
• Primal Fury's Slam attacks are not affected by Combo Counter nor Reach Mods, does not work with Critical Mods, and radial damage from Slam Attacks do not contribute Combo Counters.
• A recent hotfix removed the unique interaction between Iron Vault and Glaives allowing Glaives to nuke in a large scale.

Due to some uncertainty on how Wukong and other Exalted Melee Warframes will be affected by the new Melee 3.0 plans, I am going to simply list down a few ideas for Wukong (and one will be a possible new ability fitting the lore of Wukong.

 

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[WUKONG'S PASSIVE: TENACITY]

I see Wukong's passive over this time to be a valuable one. With the Naramon Focus Ability (Power Spike), Wukong can contain an extensive Combo Counter for a very long time even with his Primal Fury ability. In the future, I think I can see Wukong's passive to be altered to work with the Heavy Attacks [DE] has planned for the future Melee rework. Until then, I can't see much reason to change this for now.

 

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[WUKONG'S FIRST ABILITY: IRON JAB]

When you are engaging enemies in melee-range, you would most likely expect your attacks to deal with multiple nearby threats. What concerns me about Wukong's Iron Jab is the single target aspect of it especially since it also adds Combo Counters to it. If Iron Jab hits multiple enemies, only the enemy it targets gets hit while the rest get knocked down.

In addition, I see some of the Augment: Iron Vault could be merged into Iron Jab. Namely, I see the perk of jumping with Iron Jab and the range buff to ground slams to be something that should be added into it.

So for Iron Jab, these are a few list of things I can see possible to work around:

• [Improving Hitbox of Iron Jab] Iron Jab will now damage enemies up to a certain length and width (affected by Range) and punches through enemies.
• [Adding Pole-vault and Ground Slam Range aspect to Iron Jab] Aiming Iron Jab to the ground will jump Wukong up and increases the range of the next Slam Attack before he hits he ground.
• [Optional: Pushing Ragdoll Effect] Enemies hit by Iron Jab will ragdoll and push them back. If an enemy hit with this ability hits a terrain/wall, they will receive another instance of damage based on 10% of their Health as True Damage.
• {Interaction with Primal Fury} When using Iron Jab with Primal Fury active, Iron Jab's length is increased further.

 

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[WUKONG'S SECOND ABILITY: DEFY]

Granted that [Rage] is practically a necessity when it comes to using Wukong, I feel having two Channeling Abilities that drain overtime to be a bit much in a Warframe (with Equinox, her 3rd ability is dependent on the number of allies/enemies nearby). Defy in itself is a very useful ability that garners massive sustainability for Wukong. It has surprised me a bit how Defy is not a 3rd ability at this point.

I have been experimenting an idea of a new Energy Cost system for Defy along with a reason to keep Defy on for longer periods. So for this ability:

• [New Energy Cost] Defy no longer drains energy continuously. Instead, while toggled on, it will trigger the Energy cost of XX Energy whenever Wukong would die. Each time this happens, the next Energy cost would require +XX% more Energy to auto-revive. [Has a max Energy Cap]

• [Optional Defy Trigger #1: Melee Boost] Each time Defy is triggered, Wukong gains a stacking Melee Damage boost of XXX% which would decay by XX% each Melee Hit. The more times Defy is triggered, the extra Melee Damage boost is offered to Wukong.

• [Optional Defy Trigger #2: Divine Blast] Each time Defy is triggered, Wukong blasts divine energy around himself damaging enemies within XX m in Blast Damage. This trigger will knockdown enemies and the Blast Damage and its Range increases after each consecutive Defy trigger.

 

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[WUKONG'S THIRD ABILITY: CLOUD WALKER]

The invulnerability+invisibility and vertical traveling of Cloud Walker is something I can see to be a reason why one would want to use it. Other than that, I feel this was more of a slap-on; it feels as if the ability is just here to give Wukong some stealthy tactic. However, while I am considering the idea of replacing this ability with a new one, I would like to add in a different aspect to this cloud-riding ability:

• [Option for a Cloud Walker Change]: Increases the movement of Cloud Walker, and adds a perk where Wukong mischievously steals/drops ammunition/Orbs on enemies the Cloud passes by.

• [Option to Remove Cloud Walker and an added passive - Cloud Gliding]: When Aim Gliding, Wukong's Cloud sticks to his feet allowing infinite Aim-Gliding duration.

 

[WUKONG'S REPLACING THIRD ABILITY SUGGESTION: HAIR CLONE]

Legends say that Wukong is able to make clones of himself through his own hair. Wukong in Warframe will instantaneously jump back creating an Energy Clone from his Energy Tendrils.

• Wukong's Energy Clones wield a staff, are invulnerable to enemy attacks, and have a set duration while they Taunt
• Each of the Energy Clone's attacks add Combo Counter to Wukong
• Wukong can only create up to X Energy Clones to fight alongside him
• The reach of Energy Clone's staff attacks will increase while Wukong's Primal Fury is active

 

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[WUKONG'S FOURTH ABILITY: PRIMAL FURY]

Wukong's Primal Fury stance feels a bit wonky when it comes to those standing Ground Slams and the ragdolling. While there is a special interaction with them and [Exodia Hunt] since it causes those slams to pull enemies to Wukong, I still feel some of those slams should have some extra punch to them.

• [Changing how Ground Slams work on Wukong] Primal Fury's Ground Slams will add Combo Counters and can have its damage be affected by Combo Counters.

 

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[ADDITIONAL REWORK THOUGHTS/FEEDBACK]

• [Iron Jab Holding Down Function]: Adding a holding-down function to Iron Jab which would either make Wukong sweep with the staff tripping and damaging enemies or make Wukong commit a ground slam attack in a conical zone.

• [New 3rd Ability: Cloud Dash] : Wukong dashes forward in the cloud form passing through enemies and mischievously drops their loot and weapons. Enemies hit are also open to Finishers for a few seconds.

• [Primal Fury's Charge Attack]: Adding a melee charge attack to Wukong's Primal Fury which has a new function of being capable of holding down for an extended amount of time. Unleash it hops Wukong forward for a devastating Ground Slam with range and damage increasing by length of the charged melee attack. This ground slam is capable of critical damage.

• [Armor Crushing Iron Jab]: Have Iron Jab destroy portions of enemy Armor.

• [Improving Cloud Walker Further]: While in Cloud Walker, all accumulated Combo Counters are maintained and will not decay while Cloud Walker is active and increases Cloud Walker's traveling speed.

 

Edited May 24, 2018 by FoxFX

[DeMonkey]

Inb4 someone mentions me.

Gimme a sec, I'll edit an appropriate response in.

You touched beautifully on his major flaws with your list, people regularly say that Defy is a wonderful ability for new players to learn the game whilst completely ignoring just how reliant Wukong is on mods, something new players don't have. Without mods you cannot use Defy itself for more than 20 seconds, and heaven forbid you want to use another ability during that time or lose any energy via death.

#1 Alright, so Iron Jab. I like your idea of having it hit enemies in a line, it's certainly how it should be.

I think the greatest ability comparison to Iron Jab is Whipclaw, both cost the same amount and create a small AoE at the point you are looking at. Whipclaw however is simply better in every way, Iron Jab certainly needs something to make it viable.

I'm iffy about simply adding % damage to it upon the enemy hitting a wall, as even at high level I doubt I'll find myself using it much when my weapons already do so much. What are your thoughts on perhaps an armour crush effect, perhaps even a radiation proc? Sounds strange, sure, but the high impact could understandably crush their armour, and would absolutely confuse the enemy via a concussion.

#2 Whilst I like the sound of adding a new mechanic to Defy, and I've certainly moaned about how boring an ability it is, there is an issue with limiting it to ''on death''. 

For starters, it's pretty hard to die at low level, my default non-damage focused build uses Arcane Grace and Guardian and even at Sortie tier I find it difficult to die, at lower levels it simply won't happen. As such the ability is arguably still boring and useless in anything but the upper end of content.

Adding to what you propose however, what if you were granted status immunity whilst you have shields up with Defy active? You ''defy'' the proc. This would open the way to some pretty niche stuff, and would grant the ability a use at lower levels by allowing you to ignore hooks and traps.

#3 Any replacement for Cloudwalker is a +1 for me.

Any.

Especially if it's clones. So much wasted lore... Clones, transformations, magic... 

#4 Yes to the slams working from the combo and mods, at the moment I tend to use the slams to proc Impact + Blast on enemies, and then slide attack them with my CO build. It works, but it's not pretty, and it's certainly surpassed by... basically any other melee weapon.

The range on it as well could certainly do with a buff, hopefully something that's taken a look at when DE rework melee weapons. It's simply too short, which makes no sense given it's based on an ocean measuring staff.

Final point regarding your cloud dash proposition, replacement bullet jump perhaps? Limbo gets a unique roll that almost counts as an ability, seems only fair for Wukong to get a cloud dash as a bullet jump 

Edited May 22, 2018 by DeMonkey

[DeMonkey]

Ignore

Edited May 22, 2018 by DeMonkey

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Tbh, they can’t really make primal fury worse than it already is. Titania has a better exalted weapon.

[FoxFX]

7 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Tbh, they can’t really make primal fury worse than it already is. Titania has a better exalted weapon.

 

The one notable quality of Wukong's Exalted is that it has the ability to increase its own melee range in combat. So with that, I added a suggestion to have Wukong's Primal Fury contain a special property in Slam Attack. That is to have Primal Fury's Slam Attacks to be both affected by Combo Counters and also capable of generating Combo Counters. To all a little more impact to the attack.

 

I also added some synergy with Primal Fury and Iron Jab. Both for Iron Jab to have extended range while Primal Fury is active, and to have Iron Jab's new "innate pole vault" to greatly affect the range of Primal Fury's Slam Attack.

[FoxFX]

19 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

#1 Alright, so Iron Jab. I like your idea of having it hit enemies in a line, it's certainly how it should be.

I think the greatest ability comparison to Iron Jab is Whipclaw, both cost the same amount and create a small AoE at the point you are looking at. Whipclaw however is simply better in every way, Iron Jab certainly needs something to make it viable.

I'm iffy about simply adding % damage to it upon the enemy hitting a wall, as even at high level I doubt I'll find myself using it much when my weapons already do so much. What are your thoughts on perhaps an armour crush effect, perhaps even a radiation proc? Sounds strange, sure, but the high impact could understandably crush their armour, and would absolutely confuse the enemy via a concussion.

 

Interesting idea to add armor destruction to Iron Jab. Does seem something that the monkey king in the folklore is capable of.

Will update this as an additional idea.

[(PSN)bucketofnicotine]

Great Ideas! Really like the spawning clones idea, would fit with the Wukong lore. Just another Idea how to improve Defy...what about a unique skillset when Defy activates? Think of it as a Hearthstone Deathrattle. So when Defy activates his 1 could turn into an Aoe, his 3 in to a Teleport...and 4 turns him in to an op Octavia 😉 

 

[(PSN)bucketofnicotine]

Just Brainstorming here...what if cloudwalker would "mark" Enemies which when killed with iron Jab would deal %health in an area around them?

Too op? Not sure, but scalable Damage would benefit the game in general I believe.

[FoxFX]

13 hours ago, (PS4)bucketofnicotine said:

Just Brainstorming here...what if cloudwalker would "mark" Enemies which when killed with iron Jab would deal %health in an area around them?

Too op? Not sure, but scalable Damage would benefit the game in general I believe.

For now, I feel the capabilities of the Melee Combo Counter would make the ability scale more than it should. Which is why I made the suggestions for Wukong's Iron Jab to have the innate AOE damage hitbox and for Primal Fury's Ground Slams to also add in Combo Counters and be affected by Combo Counters.

One of the things that is true about Slam Attacks is that their AOE blasts are not Combo Counter-affected which I wanted to change that with Wukong exclusively to give him a separate identity from the rest of the Warframes.

Let me think over on the suggestions you have previously stated.

[EinheriarJudith]

great write up. im sold.

[-ToT-CrackCook]

A wukong rework would be lit! i was so looking forward to him when i heard of a monkey king frame, but then. he was one of the more boring frames 😞
i like the changes suggested here! hope DE sees this and gives it some thought

[FoxFX]

6 hours ago, CrackCook said:

A wukong rework would be lit! i was so looking forward to him when i heard of a monkey king frame, but then. he was one of the more boring frames 😞
i like the changes suggested here! hope DE sees this and gives it some thought

I'd hope some more people would share their thoughts on this and mostly on their current experience with Wukong.

[FoxFX]

ADDITIONAL IDEA FOR AN IMPROVED CLOUD WALKER

• While in Cloud Walker, all accumulated Combo Counters are maintained and will not decay while Cloud Walker is active
• Increasing traveling speed of Cloud Walker

[Hammahness808]

Great post and well thought out. I don't have any criticism of your ideas nor anything I want to add.

I hope DE, when they eventually approach Wukong will see this post or take some ideas from it in the future.

I also wish I could do more than upvote your post so that it could be seen more.

[FoxFX]

On 2018-05-24 at 10:57 PM, Hammahness808 said:

Great post and well thought out. I don't have any criticism of your ideas nor anything I want to add.

I hope DE, when they eventually approach Wukong will see this post or take some ideas from it in the future.

I also wish I could do more than upvote your post so that it could be seen more. 

 

Your feedback and thoughts on this thread's ideas and Wukong in general are more than enough for now.

[FoxFX]

After the Devstream, I will leave it up to those that read this to consider any other possible option for Wukong.

[chaeor]

my opinion is that they remove the iron jab and replace it with something better wether its cloning or transforming or whatever cause lets be super real here as wukong how many times do you use your 1?

2 defy keep it as it is its too good and very proper 

3. cloud walker i would appretiate if they allow us to move faster in the cloud effect that or make wukong be able to put up clones that help him 

4. the primal fury i have 2 problems with it that should be addressed 
                 1. the stance is bad and i mean seriously bad the dude keeps slamming his staff on th floor and expects to do dmg i hate having to pause like 2 secs every time i try to use it  

                 2. i expected his staff to be able to hit multiple enemies but even that is difficult  and the range of the staff has a limit .....  makes me think (excalibur has waves that come up   and do massive dmg on enemies , valkyr simply doesnt die , as for wukong even if his staff keeps getting longer the problem is the stance doesnt allow  him to  hit more   than 2 enemies max almost and it seems either bugged in length or the length seems in itself a lie if its equipped with primed reach)

Edited July 31, 2018 by chaeor

[(PSN)allfatherthor77]

1. Iron Jab:Have it destroy armor as you said and have innate blast.                         2. Defy:Each time Wukong takes damage he gains melee bonus percentage and after death he generates one clone that resets each time he dies.   3. Cloud Walker:Wukong jumps on nimbus dbz style cloud and can ride around and shoot or swing weapons his own archwing cloud style.                           4. Primal Fury:Have it scale with enemies like Nidus abilities and once you get it to 2.5x combo counter his staff grows to at least half the length of the map the longer it gets more damage it does.

[FoxFX]

I remain unsure about the new Cloud Walker Augment released a few days ago. It actually decloaks allies that attack from inside it even when they use a silent weapon.

I remain unsure about giving Wukong a stealth ability at this point now. Especially since his ability kit is too energy hungry.

[DeMonkey]

11 minutes ago, FoxFX said:

I remain unsure about the new Cloud Walker Augment released a few days ago. It actually decloaks allies that attack from inside it even when they use a silent weapon.

I remain unsure about giving Wukong a stealth ability at this point now. Especially since his ability kit is too energy hungry.

You don't sound so unsure 

Especially when you give rational and objective reasons as to why the augment is bad, and why Wukong doesn't need stealth.

[FoxFX]

9 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

You don't sound so unsure 

Especially when you give rational and objective reasons as to why the augment is bad, and why Wukong doesn't need stealth.

It is difficult if there are other players that would come to argue that there can be some use to the Augment. 

It is difficult to tell what kind of reasons people would come up with it.

Though I am leaning on the opinion that Cloud Walker might be better off being replaced at this point.

[Xaxma]

I mentioned this before on my own thread about his terrible Cloudwalker augment, but there is indeed a surplus of wasted lore on his behalf regarding how unimaginative some of his abilities are. I won't let DE live down that terrible augment until they make it work somehow in a non-terrible way.

Defy and Cloudwalker are perhaps the most boring abilities at his disposal while Iron Jab is fun to look at but is quite frankly the weakest "Press 1 for instant damage" ability in the game. I would definitely love to see his 1 get some QoL tweaks, some additional buffs, and even further buffs when in conjunction with Primal Fury. As you've mentioned, either it gains increased range and/or damage.

I do think he is technically one of the strongest frames in the game in conjunction with [Exodia Hunt], as I've tested it myself, but he's really one-dimensional. 

Edited September 10, 2018 by Xaxma

[FoxFX]

On 2018-09-09 at 11:00 PM, Xaxma said:

I mentioned this before on my own thread about his terrible Cloudwalker augment, but there is indeed a surplus of wasted lore on his behalf regarding how unimaginative some of his abilities are. I won't let DE live down that terrible augment until they make it work somehow in a non-terrible way.

Defy and Cloudwalker are perhaps the most boring abilities at his disposal while Iron Jab is fun to look at but is quite frankly the weakest "Press 1 for instant damage" ability in the game. I would definitely love to see his 1 get some QoL tweaks, some additional buffs, and even further buffs when in conjunction with Primal Fury. As you've mentioned, either it gains increased range and/or damage.

I do think he is technically one of the strongest frames in the game in conjunction with [Exodia Hunt], as I've tested it myself, but he's really one-dimensional. 

 

[Exodia Hunt], creating effects pulling enemies towards you at a chance when you perform ground slams.

It is indeed a great arcane for Wukong to utilize his 4th a bit more (though I still feel his kit is extremely energy hungry).

That aside, I still wonder how the upcoming Melee 3.0 will affect his 4th.

[atejas]

Zephyr's tailwind and divebomb got merged into a single ability, and changing Iron Jab (which is pretty awful rn) into a slightly similar pole vault/slam combo.

Defy is OP enough as is, it doesn't need a buff. If anything, I'd suggest merge Defy and the suggested specter spawn ability and make it so that whenever Wukong takes lethal damage with a specter active, he swaps places with it and gets an invuln grace period.

[FoxFX]

On 2018-09-09 at 11:00 PM, Xaxma said:

I mentioned this before on my own thread about his terrible Cloudwalker augment, but there is indeed a surplus of wasted lore on his behalf regarding how unimaginative some of his abilities are. I won't let DE live down that terrible augment until they make it work somehow in a non-terrible way.

Defy and Cloudwalker are perhaps the most boring abilities at his disposal while Iron Jab is fun to look at but is quite frankly the weakest "Press 1 for instant damage" ability in the game. I would definitely love to see his 1 get some QoL tweaks, some additional buffs, and even further buffs when in conjunction with Primal Fury. As you've mentioned, either it gains increased range and/or damage.

I do think he is technically one of the strongest frames in the game in conjunction with [Exodia Hunt], as I've tested it myself, but he's really one-dimensional. 

We may have to discuss about the recent patch notes:

Quote

Fixed ability to trigger Exodia Arcanes on Exalted Melee weapons. Exodia Arcanes still apply to Zaws, just not in Exalted Melee (Excalibur, Valkyr, etc) form.