Okay DE, You and Your Sad Little Kickbot Wins

[Prime-Ares]

 

I'm at a loss for words at this point.

Time to set up the 2-Week Ban Vacation Tent.

[BloodKitten]

kickbot need to get kicked and replaced by.... hekbot i guess?

[(XBOX)DeadFall526]

WOW ....... DE its time to fix this,really guys! This is getting out of hand.

[artemisfortune]

This is so depressingly abhorrent that it's almost funny.

Way to go DE. You're really protecting people from learning about geography.

[KirukaChan]

First of all: wow, that kickbot has issues.

Second: I have a feeling this thread is going to get deleted. I hope it doesn't, though.

[(XBOX)DeadFall526]

4 minutes ago, Pent_ said:

This is so depressingly abhorrent that it's almost funny.

Way to go DE. You're really protecting people from learning about geography.

No its both depressing and funny at the same time. I mean is there a facepalm that does this justice ? 

 

Edited May 22, 2018 by (XB1)DeadFall526

[Mintaro]

Kickbot is unable to establish intent or alternative meanings. I thought this is obvious since it got the word bot in its name.

[Sitchrea]

Nice, censoring bad words in an M-rated game. Smh.

[KirukaChan]

36 minutes ago, Mintaro said:

Kickbot is unable to establish intent or alternative meanings. I thought this is obvious since it got the word bot in its name.

It should be able to tell the difference between one 'g' and two.

[Sean]

Yep, and all DE will do is pretend it isn't an issue.

It's basically their M.O. at this point when it comes to quite a few things lately.

 

Would be pretty easy to just put censorship in the hands of the players.

Having a default block list setup and enabled, but allowing players to add other words that the kickbot may miss or are in a different language (or even just words they don't like). Then allowing others to disable the blocklist if they choose, so they'd just see anything that gets dropped in chat. Reporting can be done to ban those truly hateful (since those people in the current system will just use words that the bot wouldn't recognize anyways).

[Voltage]

This is why more humans should become moderators to enforce rules, not a robot with no brain. The player-base continues to grow yet the moderation team barely. It would be extremely powerful to invite more volunteers who are motivated to enforce rules and can use reasoning. Hopefully this thread + Reddit can make some good changes to the enforcement policies of chat in this game.

Edited May 22, 2018 by --Q--Voltage

[SyBuhr]

A

1 minute ago, KirukaChan said:

It should be able to tell the difference between one 'g' and two.

Except in circumstances when someone really means it with two "g"s, but spells it with one.

1 minute ago, --Q--Voltage said:

This is why more humans should become moderators to enforce rules, not a robot with no brain.

That requires paying a human being to sit down in-front of a machine, and monitor chats. I don't know if you've ever done log-analysis before, but it is literally the most boring thing ever, and it would make someone want to end their existence.

Also, it'd require a minimum of two people extra, paying them for nothing other than looking at blazing fast chat-logs and make split-second decisions. It's a pretty difficult task, especially when you considered there's what...? 3-4 chats that need moderating on the orbiter + another if you go to relays? Not even including the fact that you'd need a Mod for each relay/General Area.

 

[Sean]

Just now, SyBuhr said:

A

Except in circumstances when someone really means it with two "g"s, but spells it with one.

That requires paying a human being to sit down in-front of a machine, and monitor chats. I don't know if you've ever done log-analysis before, but it is literally the most boring thing ever, and it would make someone want to end their existence.

Also, it'd require a minimum of two people extra, paying them for nothing other than looking at blazing fast chat-logs and make split-second decisions. It's a pretty difficult task, especially when you considered there's what...? 3-4 chats that need moderating on the orbiter + another if you go to relays? Not even including the fact that you'd need a Mod for each relay/General Area.

 

 

You do know that volunteer chat moderators exist, right?

Do you think the existing moderators are paid employees?

 

I bet at least a dozen others would be more than happy to sign on to do it.

[Legion-Shields]

You aren't doing easily offended people any favors by sheltering them, especially not at the cost of others.

Edited May 22, 2018 by Legion-Shields

[Voltage]

4 minutes ago, SyBuhr said:

A

Except in circumstances when someone really means it with two "g"s, but spells it with one.

That requires paying a human being to sit down in-front of a machine, and monitor chats. I don't know if you've ever done log-analysis before, but it is literally the most boring thing ever, and it would make someone want to end their existence.

Also, it'd require a minimum of two people extra, paying them for nothing other than looking at blazing fast chat-logs and make split-second decisions. It's a pretty difficult task, especially when you considered there's what...? 3-4 chats that need moderating on the orbiter + another if you go to relays? Not even including the fact that you'd need a Mod for each relay/General Area.

Plenty of people, including myself, would not mind volunteering to enforce the rules of the chat and/or forums. Not everyone asks for payment to do something they enjoy. DE would need to interview many people before selecting ones that would fit the role, but Reddit + 50 of these threads just shows that there is a clear problem. The thread @Pent_ made months ago which was locked clearly shows that action is not being taken. It is time for change, and it's hard from impossible. 

Edited May 22, 2018 by --Q--Voltage

[KirukaChan]

37 minutes ago, Legion-Shields said:

You aren't doing easily offended people any favors by sheltering them. 

To be fair, easily offended people don't really do reasonable people any favors in general.

[artemisfortune]

6 minutes ago, SyBuhr said:

Also, it'd require a minimum of two people extra, paying them for nothing other than looking at blazing fast chat-logs and make split-second decisions. It's a pretty difficult task, especially when you considered there's what...? 3-4 chats that need moderating on the orbiter + another if you go to relays? Not even including the fact that you'd need a Mod for each relay/General Area.

 

Ah, the grand ol' "too much work" argument. Plenty of people would be happy to be volunteers. Adding a player defined word ban as mentioned by @Sean would solve most the problem too. If a word offends you so much that you lose your mind at seeing it, add it to your filter so you never have to see it. Also, plenty of MMOs have in-game chat mods. Albion, I believe BDO, etc.

6 minutes ago, SyBuhr said:

Except in circumstances when someone really means it with two "g"s, but spells it with one.

Oi, yes, lets ban people for talking about a country because some ding dong might accidentally misspell the N-word. Lovely compromise.

Edit: The thread @--Q--Voltage mentioned

 

Edited May 22, 2018 by Pent_

[Mintaro]

6 minutes ago, KirukaChan said:

It should be able to tell the difference between one 'g' and two.

And what stops people from using that as the new racial slur? The bot kicks people on trigger words that are or close. I know it is silly but just how the cookie crumbles and people will abuse that loop hole.

I am not talking not about easily triggered I am talking the people who use every loop hole to assault others for their own amusement.

[SyBuhr]

1 minute ago, Pent_ said:

Ah, the grand ol' "too much work" argument. Plenty of people would be happy to be volunteers. Adding a player defined word ban as mentioned by @Sean would solve most the problem too. If a word offends you so much that you lose your mind at seeing it, add it to your filter so you never have to see it. Also, plenty of MMOs have in-game chat mods. Albion, I believe BDO, etc.

Oi, yes, lets ban people for talking about a country because some ding dong might accidentally misspell the N-word. Lovely compromise.

• Let me ask you a question: Would you be happy doing it for free? I mean, looking at several chat logs, each moment, searching for people who break rules depending on the context of the sentence and phrasing? Instead of playing the game, you are doing a Job, for free. Says a lot about how you value your time.
• Yes, you could add words to a white-list. Guess what? People who are angry, and a touch smart, will abuse those things.
• Nobody is losing their minds over this...? (I hope?)
• Speech, and sentence structure, is all about context. It's not about "accidents", though that is a factor.

But no, seriously, look at the relays, Maroo's bazaar, Cetus, and Orbit chats. They move quick, some are separately instanced. So what are you saying then? How many people do you think it would take to monitor each traffic log effectively?

If you say "one" your horribly misguided.

[Obviousclone]

14 minutes ago, Sitchrea said:

Nice, censoring bad words in an M-rated game. Smh.

yes it's very healthy if you enter a game you've never played before and seeing slurs and cussing everywhere amongst the community chats. Definitely leaves a good impression for new players and potential plat spenders.

[artemisfortune]

2 minutes ago, Mintaro said:

And what stops people from using that as the new racial slur? The bot kicks people on trigger words that are or close. I know it is silly but just how the cookie crumbles and people will abuse that loop hole.

I am not talking not about easily triggered I am talking the people who use every loop hole to assault others for their own amusement.

So we ban people who use it correctly out of fear someone might use it negatively? We all remember there is an ignore button too, yes? If you get so upset over seeing an anonymous person say a word online in a game chat then the internet isn't for you. Hell life isn't for you. The real world hold's no one's hand, and here you have the ability to permanently remove them from your life. By banning a word you give it all the power. Trying to please everyone means you're immediately going to fail.

[Sean]

12 minutes ago, Mintaro said:

And what stops people from using that as the new racial slur? The bot kicks people on trigger words that are or close. I know it is silly but just how the cookie crumbles and people will abuse that loop hole.

I am not talking not about easily triggered I am talking the people who use every loop hole to assault others for their own amusement.

 

Anything and everything can be used as a racial slur if people choose to make it so.

"Trap" was a normal word until it became some form of insult (though I've only ever seen it treated as an insult due to Warframe's ban system).

 

Take a look at the below links:
http://www.cracked.com/article_16967_8-racist-words-you-use-every-day.html

https://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2012/07/28/how-did-monday-become-racist-slur-how-did-monday-become-racist-slur/Mf4fQEVcXabGKHFaDMZ4NO/story.html

Edited May 22, 2018 by Sean

[SyBuhr]

2 minutes ago, Pent_ said:

So we ban people who use it correctly out of fear someone might use it negatively? We all remember there is an ignore button too, yes? If you get so upset over seeing an anonymous person say a word online in a game chat then the internet isn't for you. Hell life isn't for you. The real world hold's no one's hand, and here you have the ability to permanently remove them from your life. By banning a word you give it all the power. Trying to please everyone means you're immediately going to fail.

Very nihilistic way of looking at the issue.

So are you saying then, that DE should allow people to throw slurs around freely? Is that what you are advocating? Don't get me wrong, I'm all for free-speech on the internet. But DE is a business first, a Game developer second. If they allow people to throw slurs around freely, such as those discussed in this topic, they'll lose marketability in the end.

[artemisfortune]

2 minutes ago, SyBuhr said:

• Let me ask you a question: Would you be happy doing it for free? I mean, looking at several chat logs, each moment, searching for people who break rules depending on the context of the sentence and phrasing? Instead of playing the game, you are doing a Job, for free. Says a lot about how you value your time.
• Yes, you could add words to a white-list. Guess what? People who are angry, and a touch smart, will abuse those things.
• Nobody is losing their minds over this...? (I hope?)
• Speech, and sentence structure, is all about context. It's not about "accidents", though that is a factor.

But no, seriously, look at the relays, Maroo's bazaar, Cetus, and Orbit chats. They move quick, some are separately instanced. So what are you saying then? How many people do you think it would take to monitor each traffic log effectively?

If you say "one" your horribly misguided.

1. People do it for free already. We wouldn't comb through chatlogs. We've had ingame mods before and DE scrapped the idea in favor of a shoddily made auto-ban script which STILL DOESN'T TELL YOU WHY YOU WERE BANNED OR HOW LONG.

2. There is still a block button. Also, if someone was to directly attack you it's not like they could figure out what words you have in your own chat filter. They can't dodge if they don't know what they have to dodge.

3. Yes people are or have or this chat-bot wouldn't exist.

4. How can you say that and be fine with people being banned for mentioning the country Niger?

 

[Mintaro]

I am not DE so I can't speak for them but I see their logical reasoning with bot and some of the words listed as a kick (Some i disagree but not in this context).

You gotta ask them and I hope OP gets unbanned for the misunderstanding.

I put my opinions and they don't changed.