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Viability of an Over-clocked Supra Vandal?


Canach
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Approaching MR 14, got my hot-rod hat on, thinking about overclocking the Supra Vandal.

The default build would be Serration, Split Chamber, and the 4 60%/60% Elemental mods (Supra is 30% base status chance). Then I drop in Shred and Quick Trigger for a combined 90% boost to Rate of Fire. RoF goes from 12.5 to 23.75.  (or if you prefer, from "pew-pew-pew" to "pewewewewew". Note that this gun has 300 rnd mag, 1600 max ammo, 3.0s reload.

Of course RoF is pure DPS increase, and this worked well for my Soma Prime, but wanted to get community feedback on this one. 😜

 

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i personally would replace at least one mod (maybe quick trigger? not 100% sure, up to you in the end i guess) for the Syndicate Mod. It does give a bit of extra status and the proc (free energy basically) is better than no free energy. 😄

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I'm very interested to hear what folks are going to say about that rate of fire. I don't have the Supra Vandal yet so I can't do any testing (console players should get it next Baro). I have 2 Supra rivens I have been rolling in anticipation of getting it. One is CC, Damage, Damage to Infested no negative. The other is CC, CD, RoF with negative magazine size. My maths show the second one when paired with Point Strike would put my Supra at 68% Crit Chance and 6.6x or so Crit Multiplier. So very Soma like except the Supra has more damage. At the least it is a very intriguing roll. 

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Imo you want the entropy mod for this weapon you also want a riven cc cd and a - more than likely or ms damage  something along those lines. I like the supra series they have potential, however they are more of a trash mob killer type of weapon imo due to high fire rate high mag capacity. If you put both riven and the suda mod on it you wont worry bout energy.

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44 minutes ago, Canach said:

Approaching MR 14, got my hot-rod hat on, thinking about overclocking the Supra Vandal.

The default build would be Serration, Split Chamber, and the 4 60%/60% Elemental mods (Supra is 30% base status chance). Then I drop in Shred and Quick Trigger for a combined 90% boost to Rate of Fire. RoF goes from 12.5 to 23.75.  (or if you prefer, from "pew-pew-pew" to "pewewewewew". Note that this gun has 300 rnd mag, 1600 max ammo, 3.0s reload.

Of course RoF is pure DPS increase, and this worked well for my Soma Prime, but wanted to get community feedback on this one. 😜

 

Sounds interesting and fun.  As others have recommended, I would add in the Entropy Burst mod as well.  

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46 minutes ago, Canach said:

Approaching MR 14, got my hot-rod hat on, thinking about overclocking the Supra Vandal.

The default build would be Serration, Split Chamber, and the 4 60%/60% Elemental mods (Supra is 30% base status chance). Then I drop in Shred and Quick Trigger for a combined 90% boost to Rate of Fire. RoF goes from 12.5 to 23.75.  (or if you prefer, from "pew-pew-pew" to "pewewewewew". Note that this gun has 300 rnd mag, 1600 max ammo, 3.0s reload.

Of course RoF is pure DPS increase, and this worked well for my Soma Prime, but wanted to get community feedback on this one. 😜

 

Supra Vandal is Crit viable, also 2 FireRate mods are unnecessary. I would go with just Shred as PunchThrough increases overall damage delt and makes your weapon more Ammo Efficient.

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Entropy burst - yeah, that...

It seems by my math that 4x 60%/60% Elemental Mods would put the base 30% status chance to 101%, so what is the gain of boosting status chance above 100%?

It doesn't proc twice over 100% does it? or does it? Will 170% Status chance give me 1.7x the number of procs?

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2 minutes ago, Canach said:

Entropy burst - yeah, that...

It seems by my math that 4x 60%/60% Elemental Mods would put the base 30% status chance to 101%, so what is the gain of boosting status chance above 100%?

It doesn't proc twice over 100% does it? or does it? Will 170% Status chance give me 1.7x the number of procs?

Having over 100% status chance doesn't increase number of procs.  Punchthru and Multishot do increase number of procs per shot with 100% status.  

 

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50 minutes ago, kambinks said:

Get Entropy Burst and use 2 90% elements instead would give something like 70+% status chance already. You're going to spam that many bullets you won't need that dual 60% elem mods. The default ROF is already great but it might be fun to try things out. 

 

5 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

Having over 100% status chance doesn't increase number of procs.  Punchthru and Multishot do increase number of procs per shot with 100% status.  

 

So then, I need to count DPS and consider a combo like Kambinks is suggesting, using Primed Cryo with Entropy Burst and 2x60% would be a free damage improvent, in terms of status and elemental damage - regardless of the rest of my mods.  

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35 minutes ago, Canach said:

 

So then, I need to count DPS and consider a combo like Kambinks is suggesting, using Primed Cryo with Entropy Burst and 2x60% would be a free damage improvent, in terms of status and elemental damage - regardless of the rest of my mods.  

It would be a way to optimize the build more while still giving you the high fire rate.  

The Supra Vandal's base stats, speed, and accuracy provides some freedom in modding.  It's my third favorite primary after the Daikyu and Arca Plasmor.  

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As a rough rule of thumb, any rifle (or weapon that uses rifle mods, including machineguns, bows, and grenade launchers) becomes "crit-viable" if it has a multiplier of at least x2.0, and a base crit chance of at least 10%. Since the Supra Vandal exceeds that, I do consider it recommended to use the standard crit mods (Point Strike/Vital Sense) on it.

As far as status chance goes... 100% is far from necessary, especially when pushing it higher comes at the expense of things like damage.

Looking over things, with Supra Vandal I consider there to be at least 3 "mandatory" mods on it: Serration + Split Chamber, (mandatory on any rifle not a Simulor) along with Shred/Primed Shred. (makes a HUGE difference when spraying crowds) That gives up to 5 mods left to play with. I'll color-code by whether it's recommended or not:

  • Point Strike + Vital Sense: as I mentioned above, past a certain point going crit makes a big difference in your DPS, and the Supra Vandal is past that point. (remember, procs without any damage behind them aren't doing any of your killing, and crits DO affect proc damage for slash, gas/toxin, heat, and I THINK electric as well!) In terms of your average damage per shot (read also: average damage per proc) tossing this pair of mods on increases it by 103.4%. (this figure multiplies on top of everything else!) Or to think of it in a less math-y way... You're going to have a 40% chance for your damaging procs to do x4.4 damage.
  • Piercing Caliber: As the Supra Vandal is 75% Puncture, it means that Piercing Caliber is equally strong, damage-wise, as the 90% elemental mods. However, on a status weapon? Puncture's effect is decidedly one of the worst, so definitely skip it.
  • Speed Trigger: One you have Shred on there, sacrificing an elemental damage mod for this actually yields lower DPS. Yes, it can make your procs faster, but to be fair, 16.25 shots/second is going to be dishing out a lot of elemental procs to begin with.
  • Entropy Burst: is a solid choice: while you technically lose out on damage direct damage, syndicate procs are a very valuable (and under-rated) thing to have. Entropy can provide a surprising amount of energy, and moreover, because magnetic is a proc you only need apply once, Entropy works REALLY good with rapid status weapons, which'd otherwise be wasted after the first proc.
  • 60/60 Hybrid Mods: Use up to either 1 (if you're using Entropy Burst) or 2. (if you skip EB) Those situations will get you up to 80% and 66% status chance, respectively. Going much higher means sacrificing more damage for what will likely be status chance you don't notice.
  • Hammer Shot: This mod is just so poorly-tuned, it's sad. Even on a combined crit+status weapon, its contribution is just so tiny. Math-wise, with PS+VS, Hammer Shot improves your average damage by... A multiplier of 20.3%, while only giving 40% increased status chance. For comparison: if we already had a 60/60 plus a 90 mod, it gives us almost as much damage (19.2%) while more status chance. DE should really consider buffing it. (E.g, 80% crit damage + 60% status chance might make it meaningful on a weapon like this)
  • 90% Elemental Mods: As is the standard for building weapons, free slots leftover should be given to elemental mods. Try to have at least some flexibility here, so you can change out your procs as need be. (Since Cryo Rounds is Vazarin polarity instead of Naramon)
  • Vigilante Armaments: This is an attractive mod, but math-wise, it only pays off damage-wise if it's replacing a fourth 90% mod; if you wouldn't have that many spaces, just use an elemental mod. And given how weird multishot can work with status, I'd avoid it for that reason as well.

tl;dr: my main recommendation would look something like Serration, Split Chamber, Shred, Point Strike, Vital Sense, Entropy Burst, A Hybrid Mod, and a 90% mod. This makes the forma process pretty easy: just chuck on Madurai ("V") polarities until you have 5-6 of them. This also leaves your 90% slot unpolarized, for when you want to use (Primed) Cryo Rounds.

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Okay so supra vandal is something I use almost all the time, and it's, in general, a bullet hog, especially if you try to use it at the higher end of things (eventually you are emptyng entire clips into only a couple mobs, might want to move when you do it to or they will drop you.)

Even with entropy burst, and two status elemental mods (corrosive mostly in my case) you end up with 97.6% status, so you'd need a third for 100%, or the straight status mod, but might as well throw something like cold in there. I don't know the effects of that number versus 100%, I know some people swear by there being a very significant difference however.

I personally didn't up the fire rate in exchange for lowering the reload rate. This is partly due to a problem I have where I tend to assume my rifle is totally going to reload before that level 100 enemy takes me down and I stand there like an idiot, (it's difficult for me to break habits like that for reasons I won't go into,) With primed fast hands it is a 1.9 btw. It's 3 seconds without it. That's a long time, and other than the Strun I don't go over 2 seconds if I can help it or you will spend all your time reloading, even with the ammo max the gun has. Like I said, the thing is an ammo hog. 

Though it also depends on what and what rank you are fighting. Like I said higher level stuff you will empty your entire clip, I mean, I'm not sure, is emptying your clip faster and going more spray and pray useful? Or do you want to spare bullets where you can? It's hard to pick up enough ammo to replace the ammo you've lost.

I mean, you could just carry around at least 250 large ammo pads (200 technically as that is all you can access in any mission etc,) and just spam drop them desperately when you get low, like I do, or run out, and hope you don't die first. Or you could add Twitch possibly, for flipping to your secondary just in case, and maybe for good measure Tactical Reload, but that doesn't actually add any extra bullets, it just fills the chamber of a holstered rifle, and would do so slowly with such a large chamber. If you want another bullet hose, the akstilleto prime is something I swear by, though the twin grakatas feel like maybe just a step down. They are certainly fun.

I have an okay riven, pucture and straight dmg with a neg versus infested, this adds dmg to the rifle, and since the accuracy is low, you can add heavy caliber without it causing an issue. You don't really need stabilizer either, the weapon is stable enough, and again, it's more spray and pray, you are usually trying to hit everything in range and kill it all quickly.

You probably don't want to waste a slot on any sort of crit mods either, bullet hoses crit even with a low crit rate since you are hitting with so many bullets. at base 16% you'll get yellow crits fine. If anything, I guess you could up the crit dmg. But I feel like that is kind of a waste and just splitting the weapon into a hybrid.

Also, you will have lost room for anything else by the time you sort this all out, but assuming you aren't out of room, you want to sacrifice 100%, or near 100% status (as for entropy burst, at low ends that "poof" you build up is nice and gets annoying mobs out of the way. At high ends it doesn't hurt anyway, and the mod is still useful regardless, I tried replacing it with a status/elemental mod, but being "+base dmg" I lost status %.)

I haven't tested out how fast the chamber and ultimately all ammo empries out with such a high fire rate, and it -might- be beneficial, I think, at the very least, at the low end it would be a bad idea, as you'd waste a ton of ammo. At the high ends maybe? But it's not the most efficient gun the higher you go. Then you have three options, shred (or primed shred), speed trigger, or vile acceleration with a -15% dmg multiplier (it is usually negligiblr tbh. Though low dmg can still amount to a great deal in a bullet hose like the Supra Vandal, so the loss could technically be significant. I have a few guns I should test that with. Primed shred is almost speed trigger level but with punch through, so usually if I'm patient enough to forma for it, I replace speed trigger with that, unless I don't care about punch through or want to squeeze as much as I can out of a charge weapon, but don't want any dmg loss.

Anyway I'd test it out and see how it feels on higher and lower level mobs in like the simulacrum. Also depending on if you intend to flip out status effects based on what you are up against, I suppose test things like armor stripping at that fast a rate, as well as crit and if the crit dmg increase, for example is actually of any value. Since taking off my riven, the status, elemental mods combined do the most dmg. With puncture over 100 dmg behind them. But there's a good reason rifles like this aren't high dmg, besides not needing to be. Still you could throw in crit dmg increase and see what kind of numbers you get. Seems like a waste of a slot to me on that one.

My theory is that the fire rate increase isn't needed, and will be very wasteful at lower ends, unless you have mobs surrounding you and swarming you like if you are 1hour in to an infested survival or something, (just a guess.) But if you just stood there, I still think you'd die first. At higher ends, again, I don't think it is necessary. It is more of a waste of a slot. I'd use it for fast hands or a riven mod or something else like upping damage. 

Math is hard: 300 bullet mag at roughly 23 bullets a second, sure I could pull up the computer calculator, but that's difficult and challenging. 😞

 

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It''s already a pretty low accuracy weapon (about 23) so heavy caliber is fine. I use it in mine.

 

Yea if you really ramped up the fire rate I suppose then it would just go over all the place with the low accuracy. I know I have a mod or two from acolytes that gives significantly improved accuracy when aiming or whatever. But how will that improve a 23 accuracy weapon, or even lower, about 15 with heavy caliber?

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Well the there are 6 mod slots that are mandatory on damage weapons so you have two left.... Shred, heavy caliber, bladed rounds, argon scope, vile acceleration, hunter/vigilante etc... I've been thinking of vile + shred for a 120+ percent fire increase. Make it a super bullet hose....

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6 minutes ago, hooperinius said:

Well the there are 6 mod slots that are mandatory on damage weapons so you have two left.... Shred, heavy caliber, bladed rounds, argon scope, vile acceleration, hunter/vigilante etc... I've been thinking of vile + shred for a 120+ percent fire increase. Make it a super bullet hose....

Wow - I'm confused, low accuracy but Argon Scope and Bladed Rounds? ROFLMAO  Hey, if you can make that combo work - but, you know, wow..  🤣

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I mean it has a possibility for crit, but why on earth would you go crit when you could max out status. It's like you're just grabbing mods out of the rifle list and smushing them together. WTF Hunter mod are you talking about, I can't figure that one out at all. It's a puncture weapon and you either want tp hope for regular slash ptocs or...you want to add status duration? Which is useless and you are trying to turn it into a crit build?

 

Furthermore, those all require aiming, that is argon scope and bladed rounds. You are upping the fire rate where there's going to be a good deal of recoil (I am fairly sure, at any rate,) or at least it won't be stable, and it has a low accuracy anyway which you've dropped to lower accuracy...Also, if you not using primed shred, why wouldn't you use Speed trigger? Shred is 30%, speed trigger is 60%. Why hold back at that point?

 

Here, I'm not perfect at builds, But this is what I have. To change it to have a higher speed I'd probably take out heavy caliber and add the speed mod of your choice depending on if you are willing to take a damage hit for a high speed or settle for say 60, or go for 55 and some punch through (which never hurts. Now assuming you don't have the riven you could keep heavy caliber in OR use two fire rate mods (again, of your choice.)

 

Also I have no GODLY rivens. I am aware of that. I tend to roll them until I'm at least pleased with them and then leave it alone because until kuva survivals came out I did not enjoy the process of collecting the stuff at all.

 

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Thank you @Canach most of my rivens are meh. I think I have an occassionally good one that I don't really notice is okay. I am only starting to learn rivens because I really need to adjust if I want to make any plat again.

 

I have a lectura riven I decided to make the lectura for, for example. Absolutely wretched but just a bit more speed than primed fury. It also has like CC or CD and the lectura has like no crit on it. I am going to reroll it, but technically it is useful for now because it is just adding more speed, which I want. (I think the stance makes the lectura feel slow, though the stats do not reflect that.) 

 

Also if you didn't have a riven and took out heavy caliber, I'd actually add cold status/dmg and then a speed mod if you want to speed things up. I am pretty sure you would feel that 100% status. I think I was testing it and it hits 100% at that point. Like I said before, I have heard there's a huge difference, I just haven't tested it myself.

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Well, I don't really know what I'm going to DO with it other than play around some - it will have to earn a spot in actual rotation - it may become a Dex Pixia rifle... I know it has good potential, not necessarily at a screamer RoF...

In the meantime I have plenty to think about!

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