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[Oberon Rework Suggestion] Making him scale better.


BeardyKyle
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In his current state Oberon is a decent healing and pseudo-tank, although that falls off at later levels where damage is high enough to one-shot him. His damage abilities fall off way before that and his CC abilities are good but redundant. 

Let's look at some of the problems IMO:

  1. Renewal: Energy drain on Renewal is massive at times. (Teammates taking too much damage or Nekros in a squad), Armor buff is appreciated but not quite effective at higher levels.
  2. Reckoning: Armor strip requires either having max Strength OR spamming it to be useful. It's CC mechanic is redundant to HG and It's, Damage buff requires casting it twice to get the most out of it.
  3. Smite: Used to be one of the better 1s in the game but is now barely used, since HG handles CC well enough.
  4. HG: is less of a Synergy skill and more of a Requirement for the rest of his kit

How'd I'd change him:

  1. Introduce a Radiation Exposure Level Counter: As the level goes up his abilities get stronger or gain additional effects
  2. How the Exposure counter increases (placeholder values): 
    • Standing on HG increases exposure level at 2 points per second (Having Renewal active increases rate x2)
    • Every Rad status inflicted by HG increases stack x1 per second per enemy = 12 points per enemy
    • Each Rad Status inflicted by Smite increases stack by 2 and an additional 2 per orb that inflict rad as well = Potential 26 per enemy
       
  3. How the Exposure counter affects abilities - Each time exposure reaches a new threshold there is a benefit but using certain abilities above the threshold will cost exposure in addition to energy:
    • Every 100 Exposure: Smite Orbs deal an additional 2% of target's health/shields as damage (Divided among all orbs) and have a higher chance to proc
    • Once above 300: Renewal cost for allies is drained from Exposure instead of energy
    • Every 500 - Renewal gains 3% Damage reflection and drains 3 exposure per second while HG gains 5% additional damage and drains 20 exposure per cast
    • At 500 - Reckoning has a 50% chance to inflict an additional random status (instead of dropping health on kill)
    • For every 1000 - Reckoning deals 500 more damage but costs 500 exposure to cast

I'm certain there's some balancing issue I haven't thought about here so feel free to bring it up and I'll try to find a solution.

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What problems do these proposed changes aim to solve though?

The interaction between Renewal and summoned allies should be looked at, but the rest? I am not convinced there are any significant problems with the kit that a baked in Nidus stack counter would fix.

His abilities already scale. Radiation damage scales. Status immunity is infinitely scaling. Armour shredding is always beneficial. For goodness sake even Smites direct damage scales off enemy health & shields Oberon does not need any more of an innate scaling mechanic.

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I can agree on changing Nekros' Shadows to function like Nidus' Maggots in that Renewal does not interact with them. And I mean changing the Shadows not Renewal.

Using him a lot recently, my biggest issue using Obie, or any Warframe, at higher levels is that stun/stagger animation that locks out any player action (as far as I can tell), since like in Sortie as soon as I see that happen, if I did not manage to cast Hallowed Ground, I can expect to be downed soon after.

 

As for the Radiation Exposure system you detail, it actually sounds to me like a good idea for a new Warframe ability, honestly.

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22 hours ago, (XB1)RPColten said:

What problems do these proposed changes aim to solve though?

The interaction between Renewal and summoned allies should be looked at, but the rest? I am not convinced there are any significant problems with the kit that a baked in Nidus stack counter would fix.

His abilities already scale. Radiation damage scales. Status immunity is infinitely scaling. Armour shredding is always beneficial. For goodness sake even Smites direct damage scales off enemy health & shields Oberon does not need any more of an innate scaling mechanic.

1

To nitpick here, Radiation only scales in the sense that enemies attacking each other won't attack you...but enemies attacking each other don't do much damage. Then we have 3 of his abilities doing the same proc with no real benefit to his play style. HG does the proc the best for the cost, so Reckoning and Smite are practically redundant in this one aspect.  

Smite does scale but does so Very poorly, 35% divided among 12 orbs is about 3% per orb at high power strength - and at some point that 3% will be more damage than the initial attack.

At higher levels, Reckoning doesn't do good damage unless you either cast twice to get the Radiation buff Or Cast with HG to get the armor strip - in most cases you'd want to do both anyway - at base that's 250 energy to strip 60% armor and still not kill enemies in a lot of cases since the armor strip occurs after base damage. So after all that, you probably still end up killing enemies with your weapons - which makes the health orb drop unless. Basically, it just doesn't Feel like an ultimate attack. The interaction with HG and Reckoning makes his kit feel restricted, even though they buffed both abilities to do a lot more.

Honestly, his abilities are fine. They're just boring to play now - This is coming from someone playing Oberon almost exclusively since he was released. 

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Not that I've played Nidus but from what from RPColten is saying, it sounds like you are trying to make Oberon play like Nidus in which case just play Nidus.

Other than energy economy with respect to team play, Oberon is as complete as a warframe can get. He keeps teams alive, CCs and does high single target damage.

Edited by Dr.Wuzzah
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17 minutes ago, Dr.Wuzzah said:

Not that I've played Nidus but from what from RPColten is saying, it sounds like you are trying to make Oberon play like Nidus in which case just play Nidus.

Other than energy economy with respect to team play, Oberon is as complete as a warframe can get. He keeps teams alive, CCs and does high single target damage.

1

It's pretty similar to Nidus, I'd say it's more similar to the new Saryn. I wasn't able to flesh it out properly in my original post but here goes.

Where Nidus just has to group targets and hit them with his 1 and Saryn has to keep her spore count up by casting 1 strategically.

Oberon would have to either:

  1. Essentially proc himself on HG to gain "exposure" 
  2. Be in proximity to Radiated enemies when they die to increase exposure. (Enemies must be radiated when they die)

The main differences:

Where Nidus and Saryn can scale practically infinitely, up to 999,999 or whatever it is, and Nidus loses stacks when he takes lethal damage or uses his 4 and Saryn loses stacks as the spores disappear.

Oberon's exposure would be a %, once at 100% Exposure, he's getting the maximum buffs that he can get for all his abilities. 

Exposure reduces gradually over-time unless replenished. Using 4 drains exposure but also buffs it significantly.

 

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Again, all the 'exposure' gimick is doing is adding a scaling mechanic onto abilities that don't need any more scaling than they possess.

It would also induce even more 'forced synergy' which you commented on as being an issue with Hallowed Ground. How does more forced synergy solve a problem of forced synergy? Surely it would preferable to make Hallowed Ground no longer a necessary function, but a complimentary one?

However, what I think the issue here is that we are looking at Oberon under different viewpoints. We clearly don't agree what his intended role is, so we won't agree on what is best for the kit. I believe Oberon is meant to be a fighter that supports allies through buffs and debuffs, not a dedicated healer, tank or damage-dealer. I see him as needing to support his allies, and I believe that goal is met well with the current kit. Should his role be intended for damage, then yes Smite and Reckoning would need upgrades.

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19 hours ago, (XB1)RPColten said:

Again, all the 'exposure' gimick is doing is adding a scaling mechanic onto abilities that don't need any more scaling than they possess.

It would also induce even more 'forced synergy' which you commented on as being an issue with Hallowed Ground. How does more forced synergy solve a problem of forced synergy? Surely it would preferable to make Hallowed Ground no longer a necessary function, but a complimentary one?

However, what I think the issue here is that we are looking at Oberon under different viewpoints. We clearly don't agree what his intended role is, so we won't agree on what is best for the kit. I believe Oberon is meant to be a fighter that supports allies through buffs and debuffs, not a dedicated healer, tank or damage-dealer. I see him as needing to support his allies, and I believe that goal is met well with the current kit. Should his role be intended for damage, then yes Smite and Reckoning would need upgrades.

at the core, i see oberon as he was initially presented, a druid-paladin hybrid. That's why I think his kit should reflect both offense and support. The synergy i suggest wouldn't force you to use one ability to create synergy but rather have synergy be the result of using all of your abilities freely.  

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If it is a balance of offense and support, then current Oberon is perfect. He has a fair balance between debilitating the enemy and buffing his allies, but not enough strength in either to over-shadow the frames that specialize in those areas.

The idiom "Jack of all trades but master of none" comes to mind with Oberon.

 

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On ‎2018‎-‎05‎-‎24 at 2:30 PM, BeardyKyle said:

 

At higher levels, Reckoning doesn't do good damage unless you either cast twice to get the Radiation buff Or Cast with HG to get the armor strip - in most cases you'd want to do both anyway - at base that's 250 energy to strip 60% armor and still not kill enemies in a lot of cases since the armor strip occurs after base damage. So after all that, you probably still end up killing enemies with your weapons - which makes the health orb drop unless. Basically, it just doesn't Feel like an ultimate attack. The interaction with HG and Reckoning makes his kit feel restricted, even though they buffed both abilities to do a lot more.

If you're casting Reckoning twice and only striping 60% armor, then you're doing something terribly wrong with your build.  Reckoning is the only armor strip in the game that works exclusively off base armor instead of current armor levels, which means a 170% STR Oberon can fully strip ALL armor from a target with 250 power before efficiency mods.

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7 hours ago, UltimateGrr said:

If you're casting Reckoning twice and only striping 60% armor, then you're doing something terribly wrong with your build.  Reckoning is the only armor strip in the game that works exclusively off base armor instead of current armor levels, which means a 170% STR Oberon can fully strip ALL armor from a target with 250 power before efficiency mods.

I said at base. 

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