List of required nerfs

[Ryunokage]

As the title states, this post is a list of things in the game, be they weapon or warframe that needs to a relook. Its not a static list and i expect it to grow as other members of the community make their own suggestions.

Warframe abilities:

1. Trinity link Nerf to link incoming, will no longer channel damage into link. Thank you DE.

• frequently used in conjunction with explosive/self damaging weapons
• ignores line of sight
• many builds allow trinity to cover whole maps with impunity
• current iteration also lends itself to automation. Cast ability, detonate explosives on self, repeat.
• combination of extreme range, functioning through walls/obstacles and automation - severely affects play experience for other players in the game
• Suggestion: Change link's damage absorbtion to ignore self damage weapons, ie trinity abusing link with self damage would blow themselves up.

2. Equinox mend/maim

• extreme range
• ignores line of sight
• combined with whip weapons like the atterax, allows for rapid build up of stored damage
• this functions synergistically with whip spin spam, players using this can rapidly build up stored damage with a few executions of their macro, before unleashing the stored damage to hit enemies in a very wide radious
• very disruptive in confined game modes, such as onslaught, defense. Smaller map sizes and plenty of intervening obstacles prevents other players on the team from engaging in combat, when enemies do appear they're sufficiently clustered for the spin-spammer to wipe them out in a second and at the same time build a large stack of damage to wipe the rest of the map as well.
• Suggestion: unsure, this will likely become difficult to do once melee range nerfs take effect, but all the same it needs to at least be stopped by line of sight.

 

Weapons:

1. Spin attack melee

• even following the recent change in their mechanic that prevented players from using this through walls, spin spam continues to severely affect group playstyles.
• large area of effect
• rapid attack speed when used in conjunction with whips and polearms.
• no penalties or limitations to its use
  • players free to use this with impunity 
• allows singular players to very often wipe groups of enemies out in a single strike
  • problem exacerbated by use of macros that allow repeated spam.
• Suggestion: Implementing spin attack recovery animations, with variations among the weapon classes
  • further differentiates weapon classes with one another with more specific benefits and costs between them. May make for more meaningful weapon selection
  • example: polearm/whip: 2 seconds to recover, vs sparring weapons, nil recovery period

2. Flame throwers

• ease of use, large ammo pool
• wide area of effect with innate punch through
• short range innate to this weapon class negated by tight confines of most of warframe's environments
• vfx block line of sight for other players, making it hard to land shots with precision, slow cycle weapons, like sniper rifles, bows etc.
• suggestion: reduce clip sizes and ammo pool for flame throwers, while increasing damage and reload time.
  • Encourage use of weapon in short bursts for effectiveness, vs hosing down an area for extended periods of time.+

 

Update: 

Trinity's link has been nerfed as requested - item struck though, will leave entry in place for posterity's sake.

Edited June 5, 2018 by Ryunokage

[SumBoady]

No.

[-.SP.-G43riel]

6 minutes ago, Ryunokage said:

Encourage use of weapon in short bursts for effectiveness, vs hosing down an area for extended periods of time.

then it would not really feel like a flamethrower anymore

[Ketec]

People found better options than my xx favourite item so they must be nerfed?

[-.SP.-G43riel]

"required" reads "things i want to change"

[RobWasHere]

14 minutes ago, Ryunokage said:

2. Flame throwers

• ease of use, large ammo pool
• wide area of effect with innate punch through
• short range innate to this weapon class negated by tight confines of most of warframe's environments
• vfx block line of sight for other players, making it hard to land shots with precision, slow cycle weapons, like sniper rifles, bows etc.
• suggestion: reduce clip sizes and ammo pool for flame throwers, while increasing damage and reload time.
  • Encourage use of weapon in short bursts for effectiveness, vs hosing down an area for extended periods of time.

Ignis doesnt punch through walls anymore, you know. Amprex is fine by this logic?

Edited May 23, 2018 by RobWasHere

[Lucavee]

1. Suicide trin is strong mainly thanks to sancti castana buff and riven. Its annoying to play with but its also very limited in usage. I hardly ever meet one outside of ESO. If you want this nerfed, go after the weapon, not the trin.

2. Equinox + whip combo doesnt do all that well anymore, thanks to the wall buff. And again, it requires strong damage from your teammate or your weapon. Its basically just a single use map clear on deactivation.

3. Spin attack is getting reworked. They already said they want the macro reliant gameplay to go away.

4. They dont want a single tap of ignis to decimate enemies. What you wanted is the exact opposite of what they wanted, proven by: Damage ramps up from 20% to 100% over 0.6 seconds when firing. After firing stops for 0.8 seconds, the damage decays back to 20% over 2 seconds. Taken from Ignis wraith wiki page.http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Ignis_Wraith under the disadvantages.

Also..

 

[Beartornado]

15 minutes ago, Lucavee said:

2. Equinox + whip combo doesnt do all that well anymore, thanks to the wall buff

I thoroughly enjoyed the fact that this was referred to as a "wall buff" rather than a melee nerf, as though the walls are now stronger because melee can't punch through them.

[Toran]

Hell, do I hate nerf-cry posts...

Ask yourself honestly: has any nerf in the past changed the game in the end? Has it become harder, more challenging, more interesting?

Nerf one thing and people find another new toy, Warframe is full of totally overpowered abilities and weapons. That's the core of the game and its success. It's an easy and entertaining horde-killer with nice graphics and an unrivaled variety in customization options.

Skill is only a thing for newcomers to the game to compensate their lacking equipment.

[Kronxito]

We really need to nerf everything. No only in the game, but also in real life and the universe.  The sun is really OP in my opinion because it burns. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[rune_me]

[Prime-Ares]

 

[AuroraSonicBoom]

Reasonable.

[jmthebigman]

so Op wants to nerf synergies (trin w/ weapon and several needed mods)
so Op wants to nerf Equinox main skill... whilst equinox isnt even that often seen...
Spin attacks are fixed since obstacle issue was addressed... Op not up2date

OP certainly doesnt know what a flamethrower is.... and apparently doesnt know how long it took DE to get the Ignis at a decent spot without being garbage or brokenly strong....

 

A question for you OP... Should we take this and for future reference you serious or not. Because I have the feeling this post is a bit trollish.

[tundra--]

Hey guys let's make a list of all the items that could possibly make you feel powerful and cause you to have fun playing the game!  The end result will be enemies that seem like bullet/melee sponges.  Great idea right?  Ami I right??     /s

/close thread

Edited May 23, 2018 by tundra--

[(PSN)robotwars7]

5 hours ago, Ryunokage said:

Trinity link

hell to the no. Trinity's been nerfed more times than any other Warframe, Castanas should take the fall for this one as nobody even used them prior to the discovery of Castanuke Trin, for the exact same reason we use them now; self damage. self damage doesn't synergize with other Warframes but instead hinders them greatly. this is not a Trinity problem, this is an Onslaught Problem, as that's the game mode where it's rapidly becoming the Meta.

5 hours ago, Ryunokage said:

Equinox mend/maim

working as intended. your point about Macros regarding this is also redundant; not everybody uses Macros. take Macro support out of Warframe, problem solved.

5 hours ago, Ryunokage said:

Spin attack melee

also working as intended. people spam it, sure, but they'll be doing it less with the melee changes.

5 hours ago, Ryunokage said:

Flame throwers

• ease of use, large ammo pool
• wide area of effect with innate punch through
• short range innate to this weapon class negated by tight confines of most of warframe's environments
• vfx block line of sight for other players, making it hard to land shots with precision, slow cycle weapons, like sniper rifles, bows etc.
• suggestion: reduce clip sizes and ammo pool for flame throwers, while increasing damage and reload time.
  • Encourage use of weapon in short bursts for effectiveness, vs hosing down an area for extended periods of time.

this is perhaps one of the dumbest things I've read on here in a while. without a large ammo pool, Flamethrowers are useless because they consume ammo rapidly, it's in their nature. punch through is obviously going to be a thing because you're not firing a solid projectile that can be stopped, but flames that can wrap around anything they touch and hit things behind them. again, Flamethrowers are supposed to do this, in any game not just Warframe. your third point is also redundant; of course there are tight confines in Warframe's environments. because funnily enough this a HORDE SHOOTER. your fourth point can be countered by simple.. oh I dunno, moving out of the way of the person using the flamethrower? and finally, point number 5, flamethrowers are never intended to be used in short bursts; they are room clearing weapon, you're supposed to hold the trigger down until there's nothing left or you have to reload. "hosing down for extended periods of time".. that is literally the purpose of a flamethrower; to hose down things with napalm for extended periods of time.

you are literally saying we should use flamethrowers the opposite way to which they are intended. i seriously hope that you're a troll, and aren't actually this deluded.  

 

[TzXtetriC]

Why dont we nerf everything till the point where everyone quits warframe and go plays another thing? I dont like several playstyles but no one here is anyone to force ppl to play the way they want... search for another squad if your uncomfortable with it.
Im ok with balance 

Edited May 23, 2018 by TzXtetriC

[Formicula]

I have to be afraid now that every time I do 50% of total damage, a troll demands nerfs ?🤪

[disco_inferno6]

6 hours ago, Ryunokage said:

<snip>

I'm not saying this out of spite. I seriously do not want you to feel grief when you play.

Occasionally, I use some of those items or playstyles when I grind a bit in this game.

So I will save you from any possible future grief and put you on ignore when I log on tonight and I highly suggest you do the same.

No hard feelings.

Enjoy Warframe.

Edited May 23, 2018 by disco_inferno6

[Tsukinoki]

6 hours ago, Ryunokage said:

2. Flame throwers

• ease of use, large ammo pool
• wide area of effect with innate punch through
• short range innate to this weapon class negated by tight confines of most of warframe's environments
• vfx block line of sight for other players, making it hard to land shots with precision, slow cycle weapons, like sniper rifles, bows etc.
• suggestion: reduce clip sizes and ammo pool for flame throwers, while increasing damage and reload time.
  • Encourage use of weapon in short bursts for effectiveness, vs hosing down an area for extended periods of time.

So basically "Hey, lets undo the entire intention of the continuous fire changes just for the ignis for no real reason!!!"
Because that's what you're asking for here.
DE made changes specifically to turn continuous fire weapons, including the ignis, into weapons that you need to continually fire to get any effect out of.  Especially with the damage ramp that goes from 20% damage to 100% as you continually fire it at the same targets.

And do you know what a flamethrower is?  Its a weapon designed to "hose down an area for extended periods of time", not a weapon meant to be fired in very short bursts.  Especially with the continuous weapon effects which would combat your change to the point that it would make the ignis useless...unless you intend that increased damage to be around 5x or so.

Further you are aware that the ignis no longer punches through walls, right?  It only punches through objects and small pieces of cover (railing, boxes, small room pillars, etc), which makes 100% sense considering that its, you know, fire.

6 hours ago, Ryunokage said:

Equinox mend/maim

• extreme range
• ignores line of sight
• combined with whip weapons like the atterax, allows for rapid build up of stored damage
• this functions synergistically with whip spin spam, players using this can rapidly build up stored damage with a few executions of their macro, before unleashing the stored damage to hit enemies in a very wide radious
• very disruptive in confined game modes, such as onslaught, defense. Smaller map sizes and plenty of intervening obstacles prevents other players on the team from engaging in combat, when enemies do appear they're sufficiently clustered for the spin-spammer to wipe them out in a second and at the same time build a large stack of damage to wipe the rest of the map as well.
• Suggestion: unsure, this will likely become difficult to do once melee range nerfs take effect, but all the same it needs to at least be stopped by line of sight.

Why does everything have to be controlled by line of sight?  Epsecially an ability like Mend & Maim that doesn't do squat unless you can kill enemies (which, small hint here, unless you're playing at very, very low levels will be coming only from you and your team as it takes a while to build up nuke levels of damage and the aura damage from Mend & Maim is rather low).
At the very worst with it going through walls you have your targets suffer the one bleed proc and stagger with them in an area you can't get to meaning that you lose the stagger CC when you do manage to get to them.  And that one bleed proc won't do crap to an enemies health pool.

And how does this "prevent other players on the team from engaging in combat"?
Because the aura itself won't kill enemies until after its been loaded up first, which interestingly requires the team to be killing things, and then it only kills things in one burst and then you need to start over...meaning that the team is going to be killing enemies as they spawn in again, meaning that the team was never prevented from engaging in combat outside of the few seconds after the equinox popped her maim.

Honestly maim is one of the more team friendly AoEs in the game.
It doesn't insta-wipe (outside of low, low levels), and requires buildup that requires the equinox and team-mates to be killing things, which keeps the rest of the squad fairly involved.  And when it does pop for damage its just one big burst and then hast to start all over with absolutely zero lingering effects.

[SneakyErvin]

As D.va would put it "L O L".

[Sergster]

6 hours ago, Ryunokage said:

• ease of use, large ammo pool
• wide area of effect with innate punch through

So, it is a flame thrower.

 

Do you not know how fire, works? This thread gave me a headache.

Edited May 23, 2018 by Sergster

[--Q--WaffleZ]

The only thing on the OP list that might be changed in the future is Trinity's Link.

Other than that, they work as intended.

Actually, I don't think Trin's Link is a big deal too since the dev didn't respond quickly.

[Sergster]

43 minutes ago, --Q--WaffleZ said:

The only thing on the OP list that might be changed in the future is Trinity's Link.

Other than that, they work as intended.

Actually, I don't think Trin's Link is a big deal too since the dev didn't respond quickly.

We're just putting cheese against cheese. All ESO really is, is just constantly scaling enemies.. nothing new or interesting just hordes of level ups. 

[Lawmonark]

Make sure everyone gets their weekly bingo cards.