When we cross chat filter, just give us a warning before banning and a short "why".

[rune_me]

2 minutes ago, Tonks-Prime said:

Until they try to talk in region chat and say something that's completely innocent, only for them to suffer an upwards of 3 day chat ban for talking. With no explanation, with no idea how long they are banned for...

Yeah, they'll be busy playing the game after that...

Not really. Most will just go to region chat, talk for a while, then leave on their own account. Most people in region chat don't actually get banned. 

[Nav_Archus]

I’ve been playing Warframe off and on now for about two years (with gaps due to school and personal burnout) for a sum total of 672 hours on steam. I’ve spent more money than I’d care to admit on this game, and for good reason; it’s engaging, fun, and, dare I say, addictive. From Archwing to Eidolons this game has offered me and so many others the chance to embrace the power fantasy of being a space ninja. One thing, however, looms as a threat to everyone’s enjoyment of this game: abuse of chat moderating power.

 

    I understand that DE needs to keep Warframe semi-PG to appeal to market audiences, and that they do have an express desire to stop or at least diminish infighting and name calling. This is all well and good, but one now infamous example shows what amounts to, in my opinion, the beginning of the end for the lifeblood of the community: open and honest conversation, Jokes, memes, certain types of feedback, friendly insults & inside jokes, and the ability to call out someone for something legitimately stupid and baffling they’ve said or done.

 

This example manifests itself in the now infamous joke about Nezha’s sexuality & clothing choices, which will not be repeated here due to its contested nature and the possible forum/account ban that may ensue. I’ve included the link to the archived tumblr post about the chat bot word list addition here. The contents contained therein are not meant to be used in any way to harass the individual behind said post: any punishment or reprimand should come from DE itself, not from the community at this time. The meaning and contents, however, of the username and content of the moderator in question, if they are indeed a moderator, sheds some light as to why they’d find the joke offensive. It seems to me, however, that in their overzealous effort to create a safe space for themselves, they have completely neglected a sizeable portion of the Warframe community that still finds that joke funny, and ostracized a legitimate portion of the LGBT+ community.

 

The second, and arguably more important & widespread issue is the manner in which the chat bot handles banning. To my knowledge from the one time I was banned, it’s a ‘one strike and you’re out’ system with very little leeway. As seen here, a simple mistype can result in a potential permaban. This system is antithetical to the entire point of a chat filter: as suggested by many others, a more logical and player friendly solution would be to have some sort of warning system before a ban, or even still go through with the ban, but require immediate action from guides of the lotus or a new group entirely to follow up with the affected player and determine if the insult/profanity was intentional or not.

 

If this manner of behavior & the presence of the overzealous chat bot is allowed to continue, it will not be an immediate death knell to Warframe. It may not even be a slight dent in the active playerbase’s numbers or attitude in the long term. But it will be the death of what is arguably one of the strongest parts of Warframe: the community driven creation of memes, jokes, and the vehement feedback that the community so willingly gives over every little change and detail about this game. I urge DE not to take the overtly political and community killing route of the banhammer, but to allow this community to grow organically, and to attempt to provide not a cattle prod of permabans, but gentle guidance and metered force towards those truly deserving of punishment.

 

Here’s to another two years!

-Cap

P.S.

Thanks to Rahetalius for bringing this topic to my attention. His video is linked here for those wishing to learn more about this situation.

Edited May 24, 2018 by Captainlinux
Megathread friendly version

[Captain]

You might want to read the newer posts in this thread. [DE]Drew addresses chat moderation in some of the later pages.

 

Edited May 23, 2018 by --Q--Captain

[peterc3]

4 minutes ago, Captainlinux said:

the community driven creation of memes, jokes, and the vehement feedback that the community so willingly gives over every little change and detail about this game.

Not the game itself? The memes are the best part?

[Gandergear]

we currently know that DE is 'thinking about' maybe doing something about chat moderation, it's obvious that they know at this point what peoples concerns/gripes are, but of course you don't suddenly shut everything down by simply acknowledging it.

In other words I think threads like these are very important, but don't expect the mods/staff to be nice to them.

[Sean]

Just going to copy/paste a few things from the other topic with a few minor additions and then leave it at that.

Quote

• There would be a standard filter enabled by default that would compass the current list of blocked words
• People would be given the option to either hide full lines or just censor the words themselves
• The list could be expanded upon by each player, it would basically be a major upgrade to the current filter system
  • Would cover all chats and not be needlessly be listed above each chat
• Allowing players to expand upon their own list would allow for any variation of an insult to be covered, along with non-English insults
• Players would be able to disable the blocklist, much like how the Profanity Filter can be turned off
  • This would basically be an expansion/merger of the Profanity Filter and the Filter system
    • Would behave more similarly to the Profanity Filter system where it censors words instead of removing full lines
  • This would then remove the need to have an instant ban for words that have other context like "trap", "gay", "Niger", and even the word "f*ck" as players would be able to add their own "insult variations" and other words that offend them to their own list
• Regardless the outcome, the system NEEDS to inform people the why and the duration in regards to their ban

 

 

Additionally, I noticed an imgur link showing documentation on a certain individual's toxic behavior is no longer working. I have now uploaded the image myself and it can be found here:

https://imgur.com/48hXsov

 

Sidenote, DE has already stated they are handling that in-house.

Edited May 24, 2018 by Sean

[Nav_Archus]

1 hour ago, peterc3 said:

Not the game itself? The memes are the best part?

The memes feed into the game and the game thrives on, for lack of a better phrase, its meme economy. Warframe is a community game and will die without an active community. Being this heavy handed in dealing with chatrooms adversely effects the community.

Edited May 24, 2018 by Captainlinux
Grammar

[Nav_Archus]

I’ve been playing Warframe off and on now for about two years (with gaps due to school and personal burnout) for a sum total of 672 hours on steam. I’ve spent more money than I’d care to admit on this game, and for good reason; it’s engaging, fun, and, dare I say, addictive. From Archwing to Eidolons this game has offered me and so many others the chance to embrace the power fantasy of being a space ninja. One thing, however, looms as a threat to everyone’s enjoyment of this game: abuse of chat moderating power.

 

    I understand that DE needs to keep Warframe semi-PG to appeal to market audiences, and that they do have an express desire to stop or at least diminish infighting and name calling. This is all well and good, but one now infamous example shows what amounts to, in my opinion, the beginning of the end for the lifeblood of the community: open and honest conversation, Jokes, memes, certain types of feedback, friendly insults & inside jokes, and the ability to call out someone for something legitimately stupid and baffling they’ve said or done.

 

This example manifests itself in the now infamous joke about Nezha’s sexuality & clothing choices, which will not be repeated here due to its contested nature and the possible forum/account ban that may ensue. I’ve included the link to the archived tumblr post about the chat bot word list addition here. The contents contained therein are not meant to be used in any way to harass the individual behind said post: any punishment or reprimand should come from DE itself, not from the community at this time. The meaning and contents, however, of the username and content of the moderator in question, if they are indeed a moderator, sheds some light as to why they’d find the joke offensive. It seems to me, however, that in their overzealous effort to create a safe space for themselves, they have completely neglected a sizeable portion of the Warframe community that still finds that joke funny, and ostracized a legitimate portion of the LGBT+ community.

 

The second, and arguably more important & widespread issue is the manner in which the chat bot handles banning. To my knowledge from the one time I was banned, it’s a ‘one strike and you’re out’ system with very little leeway. As seen here, a simple mistype can result in a potential permaban. This system is antithetical to the entire point of a chat filter: as suggested by many others, a more logical and player friendly solution would be to have some sort of warning system before a ban, or even still go through with the ban, but require immediate action from guides of the lotus or a new group entirely to follow up with the affected player and determine if the insult/profanity was intentional or not.

 

If this manner of behavior & the presence of the overzealous chat bot is allowed to continue, it will not be an immediate death knell to Warframe. It may not even be a slight dent in the active playerbase’s numbers or attitude in the long term. But it will be the death of what is arguably one of the strongest parts of Warframe: the community driven creation of memes, jokes, and the vehement feedback that the community so willingly gives over every little change and detail about this game. I urge DE not to take the overtly political and community killing route of the banhammer, but to allow this community to grow organically, and to attempt to provide not a cattle prod of permabans, but gentle guidance and metered force towards those truly deserving of punishment.

 

Here’s to another two years!

-Cap

P.S.

Thanks to Rahetalius for bringing this topic to my attention. His video is linked here for those wishing to learn more about this situation.

Edited May 24, 2018 by Captainlinux
General confusion on how mobile posting works

[Nav_Archus]

...

Edited May 24, 2018 by Captainlinux
Misread mobile posts

[Nav_Archus]

1 hour ago, Captainlinux said:

I’ve been playing Warframe off and on now for about two years (with gaps due to school and personal burnout) for a sum total of 672 hours on steam. I’ve spent more money than I’d care to admit on this game, and for good reason; it’s engaging, fun, and, dare I say, addictive. From Archwing to Eidolons this game has offered me and so many others the chance to embrace the power fantasy of being a space ninja. One thing, however, looms as a threat to everyone’s enjoyment of this game: abuse of chat moderating power.

 

    I understand that DE needs to keep Warframe semi-PG to appeal to market audiences, and that they do have an express desire to stop or at least diminish infighting and name calling. This is all well and good, but one now infamous example shows what amounts to, in my opinion, the beginning of the end for the lifeblood of the community: open and honest conversation, Jokes, memes, certain types of feedback, friendly insults & inside jokes, and the ability to call out someone for something legitimately stupid and baffling they’ve said or done.

 

This example manifests itself in the now infamous joke about Nezha’s sexuality & clothing choices, which will not be repeated here due to its contested nature and the possible forum/account ban that may ensue. I’ve included the link to the archived tumblr post about the chat bot word list addition here. The contents contained therein are not meant to be used in any way to harass the individual behind said post: any punishment or reprimand should come from DE itself, not from the community at this time. The meaning and contents, however, of the username and content of the moderator in question, if they are indeed a moderator, sheds some light as to why they’d find the joke offensive. It seems to me, however, that in their overzealous effort to create a safe space for themselves, they have completely neglected a sizeable portion of the Warframe community that still finds that joke funny, and ostracized a legitimate portion of the LGBT+ community.

 

The second, and arguably more important & widespread issue is the manner in which the chat bot handles banning. To my knowledge from the one time I was banned, it’s a ‘one strike and you’re out’ system with very little leeway. As seen here, a simple mistype can result in a potential permaban. This system is antithetical to the entire point of a chat filter: as suggested by many others, a more logical and player friendly solution would be to have some sort of warning system before a ban, or even still go through with the ban, but require immediate action from guides of the lotus or a new group entirely to follow up with the affected player and determine if the insult/profanity was intentional or not.

 

If this manner of behavior & the presence of the overzealous chat bot is allowed to continue, it will not be an immediate death knell to Warframe. It may not even be a slight dent in the active playerbase’s numbers or attitude in the long term. But it will be the death of what is arguably one of the strongest parts of Warframe: the community driven creation of memes, jokes, and the vehement feedback that the community so willingly gives over every little change and detail about this game. I urge DE not to take the overtly political and community killing route of the banhammer, but to allow this community to grow organically, and to attempt to provide not a cattle prod of permabans, but gentle guidance and metered force towards those truly deserving of punishment.

 

Here’s to another two years!

-Cap

P.S.

If anyone has any input in addition to mine, please keep it civil and put it down below with mine, DE needs to see more than just a bunch of raving registered losers demanding change.

P.P.S.

Thanks to Rahetalius for bringing this topic to my attention. His video is linked here for those wishing to learn more about this situation.

Also oof I meant for this to be a new topic, no idea how it became a response, thought I hit new topic

[Gandergear]

Note that the above few posts (starting with the long one labeled open letter) were merged from a different thread into this one.

@Captainlinux a mod/staffer did it, not that they give you the proper notification

Edited May 24, 2018 by Gandergear

[SilentMobius]

10 minutes ago, Captainlinux said:

But it will be the death of what is arguably one of the strongest parts of Warframe: the community driven creation of memes, jokes, and the vehement feedback that the community so willingly gives over every little change and detail about this game.

Nah, it will filter out the worst of the community and make clear to those ignorant of the wider world what is acceptable and what is not

My opinion of these bans: nothing of value was lost.

[Lord-Taco-the-Great]

I fully agree. There needs to be some sort of reform, and I have edited a previous idea from another user, that I think will satisfy most everyone.

Warning, it's long

1.) Instead of banning/kicking/suspending for minor mistakes like typing into the wrong chat the bot from now on posts your message in the proper chat and sends out a warning that these kind of messages should be posted in X chat window. You can make 3 errors per day before the bot bans you.

2.) Instead of banning/kicking/suspending the bot now simply deletes your messages if it deems it as spam. You will get a warning and can make 3 mistakes per day of joining in a spam line before you get banned.

3.) When someone tries to use an insult or slur whats currently prohibited the bot simply deletes the message and warns the user that this kind of thing is not welcome here. You get 1 warning and the next one is the ban/suspension. One warning is universal in this case and its active for 24 hours, if the user uses another word whats prohibited the minimum ban is 1 day, and goes up depending on repeating offenses.

4.) The bans only affect the main chats and never the pm system, squadchat and the clan chat. Those are private areas.

5.) Though the users can still use those chats, their names are marked with a small red X for the duration of the ban

6.) The warnings in all case have the following information:

*What you typed in, soo you can see your error.

*What warning is this. If you get warned for spamming the message will clearly says "You have been warned for spamming"

*Incase of insults and slurs a message claiming why is this prohibited and what else similar is prohibited

*What will happen if you continue the prohibited behavior, kick, 1 day ban, etc..

7.) The bans in all cases have the following information and message:

*A simply start what makes the message appear more personal. "Hello anotherbannedone ......."

*A copy of the text what has banned you " you have been banned for typing [you sausage people make me sick] "

*A reason why that text is banned " ,this and the similar insults were deemed unrespectful and hurtful for the community "

*Information on how long is the ban is " for this you have been banned and marked for 48 hours "

8.) The bot should have no downtime to avoid the mess what can be seen at early and late hours.

9.) A new report function is added named chat report. This report send a copy of the message X user posted to the bot who attaches any info on the users current warnings to it and forwards it to any active moderator to check if it tried to avoid a bot ban.

Additionally the chat suspension should be always negotiable, however this does not mean you will get a lesser sentence. When you get the warning and you dont agree with it you can forward it to another random moderator for overruling, besides the one that gave it to you. If that fails you stay in the ban/keep your warning, IF its successful you lose the warning or get out of the ban while you also get tagged as [justified] for mods what makes sure that the original banner/warning giver cant re-ban you as vengeance or pettiness.

Edited May 24, 2018 by Lord-Taco-the-Great
Fixed spoiler tag

[TheGrimCorsair]

3 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

Nah, it will filter out the worst of the community and make clear to those ignorant of the wider world what is acceptable and what is not

My opinion of these bans: nothing of value was lost.

Yep.

[Lord-Taco-the-Great]

9 hours ago, -QUILL_PETER- said:

I don't believe unbiased was the word you were looking for.

Inb4 lock n ban.

I think you are really missing the point here. When a mod things they are doing a good job by, quote, "seeing lots of angry users" then there is probably a large disconnect.

Edit: I want to make clear that I am not defending the phrase "Nezha is a trap" but rather, my point is that a moderator that revels in angry users, is probably not the right type of person to be a mod.

Edited May 24, 2018 by Lord-Taco-the-Great

[Nav_Archus]

4 minutes ago, Lord-Taco-the-Great said:

I think you are really missing the point here. When a mod things they are doing a good job by, quote, "seeing lots of angry users" then there is probably a large disconnect.

Edit: I want to make clear that I am not defending the phrase "Nezha is a trap" but rather, my point is that a moderator that revels in angry users, is probably not the right type of person to be a mod.

Agreed, it's bad taste to let someone who's username means man hater be a chat mod

[Gandergear]

Well it's at this point i get to tell DE I told you so when I predicted this was going to happen a month ago, but hey they let it stew until it blew up...

[peterc3]

2 hours ago, Captainlinux said:

The memes feed into the game and the game thrives on, for lack of a better phrase, its meme economy. Warframe is a community game and will die without an active community. Being this heavy handed in dealing with chatrooms adversely effects the community.

On behalf of those who look at the game the same way I do, Bon Voyage.

The game doesn't thrive off memes. The community that is ready to throw DE under the bus the second some 3rd rate memer hears from their 2nd cousin's wife's hairdresser that someone was totally banned for playing Warframe while listening to Trapped in the Closet.

Affects what part of the community? Don't you dare lump in me and others with the people who feel that the N-word or f***** is appropriate to use as jokes in their banter with their friends on a public chat channel in-game.

[UncaIroh]

I do think if we ran afoul of the word filter the bot should have the courtesy to inform you which word or phrase it was. I've been kicked a few times without me knowing why and I only noticed when no one was replying any more.

Edited May 24, 2018 by UncaIroh

[Gandergear]

7 minutes ago, UncaIroh said:

I do think if we ran afoul of the word filter the bot should have the courtesy to inform you which word or phrase it was. I've been kicked a few times without me knowing why and I only noticed when no one was replying any more.

nonsense you should know what some random tumblr account considers a bad word (sarcasm)

[(PSN)the-creeperman]

I have some pretty funny Vay Hek jokes that I can't use in chat because of "excessive caps".. it really sucks.

 

Anyway, I'm with the school of thought that believes nothing should be absolutely sacred and stereotypes are what keeps stand up comics employed. With that said I think the implementation of personal filters and more (better trained)moderators would be an improvement to the current system of preprogrammed bots.

[Fallen_Echo]

11 hours ago, Prof.549 said:

Don't cross any lines? Easy enough.

What lines? A few months ago you could get kicked/banned for saying gender.

[RogueVoxel]

The censorship is starting to get crazy for this game, honestly I expect to load in just to find warframe names being censored

[Demoniii]

8 hours ago, peterc3 said:

Too bad?

This ain't a democracy.

If you are offended by their chat restrictions, just go away.

What I'm saying, it should be a democracy or at least be how the minority wants it to be, because what is right and wrong is subjective and shouldn't be decided just by the one in power.

 

If their intent is clearly to take away my freedom of speech, of course i will fight back. Also i did say that talking is the best way to solve these things.

 

I see you're biased in what parts of my post you used in your quote to make it sound like i'm childish. If it wasn't a mistake I mean.

[Demoniii]

8 hours ago, peterc3 said:

Too bad?

This ain't a democracy.

If you are offended by their chat restrictions, just go away.

What I'm saying, it should be a democracy or at least be how the minority wants it to be, because what is right and wrong is subjective and shouldn't be decided just by the one in power.

 

If their intent is clearly to take away my freedom of speech, of course i will fight back. Also i did say that talking is the best way to solve these things.

 

I see you're biased in what parts of my post you used in your quote to make it sound like i'm childish. If it wasn't a mistake I mean.