Boss Tactics... Annoying And Boring.

[WingsOfGryphin]

First of all - DE, i really appreciate what You have given us, and You are doing a really great job :) 

But now i seriously want to "rant" about the tactics of boss fighting. 




My first impressions of farming Phobos bosses are "oh my god, how @(*()$ long will i have to wait on this guy so i can kill him" 

The thing is - i really hate this system of hitting and waiting. Especially with the new Vor - 4 guys with fully modded weapons with a power of nuclear blast can make Vor go into bubble in less than a second AND THEN we are FORCED to wait out this time. I am seriously going afk for those 5 seconds and just watch at him, drinking coffee - that's not how boss fights should be because it makes no sense - the guy can be killed in a second, but he doesn't die because of the "immortality bubble". Oh wow, i want that shield for myself. 

It's even worse for Kril. I don't even know what to do with this guy - do i hit to backpack, do i wait for him to use Ice wave? Nothing is certain for this guy, you just spam around his backpack and kill him when he ignites after 5 minutes. 

last time i farmed Kril he was simply High damage dealer and we need to run close to him to make him melee and meantime just spam him with damage. - NOW THOSE WERE TIMES. 

Oh wait ... Raptor is the same right? Hit -> wait? 


It was way simplier back then. At least you could oneshot Vor with insanely modded weapon. Now even a nuclear atom bomb won't kill him.

Am i only one feeling this way? 



 

Edited August 15, 2013 by WingsOfGryphin

[Hayden11121]

Phobos: 10% Fight 90% Wait.

 

I agree.

[stealthcl0wn]

"Tactics"

AKA shooting them constantly until they die or go invincible

It's the same for every boss and I hate it. I hope J3-golem breaks this

[Sev1107]

I'd give them more abilities and moves and more HP/shields. Would make things less dull and still a challenge.

[taiiat]

"Tactics"

AKA shooting them constantly until they die or go invincible

It's the same for every boss and I hate it. I hope J3-golem breaks this

i laugh a lot when farming bosses from time to time, because 99.100% of the pubbies will go to the boss, and just shoot at it until it dies. 

invulnerable for the next 20 seconds? i'll keep shooting! >.>

i mean seriously, STOP SHOOTING.

and these people will be Mastery 9, but just shoot until the fight is over. is everyone really this... i don't have a tactful word for it. but you know what i mean.

 

ex - when fighting Vor+Kril, i use probably 30 or 40 bullets for the entire fight. shoot when needed, wait, repeat. then once i can finally kill them, shoot till dead, usually under 10 bullets. 

 

but i'll hear every other player in the match using like friggin 600+ rounds. i don't get it. 

 

 

 

i am also interested to see how Golem is going to be. on the flip side, i don't want all the boss fights to become a Quick Time Event. that would be interesting once, then boring as hell every time after.

stages..... are okay. but honestly, bosses in every game... pretty much ever, have been boring. either a health pool or just some dry training exercise of memorizing 1/2/3 to not die and kill the boss.

 

 

at the end of the day though, i'd take a QTE boss over a health pool. NOTHING is more boring than just a health pool you shoot at for a century. 

Edited August 15, 2013 by taiiat

[Destro6677]

Here's a suggestion to solve this problem.

 

If you shoot at Vor's bubble, it pops faster, but he should still get full shields when it does pop.

[Extinction_Engine]

Enormous health pools are practically mandatory, since we can oneshot nearly everything. I wonder... what does it take to make a boss "good"?

[Chris9428]

"Tactics"

AKA shooting them constantly until they die or go invincible

It's the same for every boss and I hate it. I hope J3-golem breaks this

He should use heavy cleave attacks which knock back, but they can be dodged by a well timed jump.

That'd add some tactics into this game.

 

Maybe he has a phase where he goes nuts as well.

[BlueQuail]

Enormous health pools are practically mandatory, since we can oneshot nearly everything. I wonder... what does it take to make a boss "good"?

Lots of health

moderate def

Mod immunity (Multishot, DPS)

[YTakuyaY]

Warframe bosses need to learn tactics from Vindictus bosses. :3

 

Bosses need to be able to wall climb and do acrobatic sh!ts to add variety to the battle.

 

It's not to just stand still with the shield and let the Tenno shoot you like sandbag. 

[Extinction_Engine]

Lots of health

moderate def

Mod immunity (Multishot, DPS)

Wait... clarify. You want weapons to do set damage against bosses?

[BlueQuail]

Wait... clarify. You want weapons to do set damage against bosses?

I want bosses to exist as BOSSES! If that takes them being immune to certain mods then so be it. Everything on the players side in this game is op with a few exceptions.

[Cat_Has_My_Pipe]

Enormous health pools are practically mandatory, since we can oneshot nearly everything. I wonder... what does it take to make a boss "good"?

 

Metal Slug and its ilk. I've always loved those segmented boss fights, each little segment having a unique set of attacks to dodge and a unique way to damage the boss.

[DjCrimsonFox]

It's even worse for Kril. I don't even know what to do with this guy - do i hit to backpack, do i wait for him to use Ice wave? Nothing is certain for this guy, you just spam around his backpack and kill him when he ignites after 5 minutes.

 

 

The idea with kril is you attack his backpack until a hose breaks, then you bait him into using an ice attack. Damage him a little while he is frozen, repeat till all the hoses are busted. Then he becomes squishy.

[Archistopheles]

The thing is - i really hate this system of hitting and waiting. Especially with the new Vor - 4 guys with fully modded weapons with a power of nuclear blast can make Vor go into bubble in less than a second AND THEN we are FORCED to wait out this time. I am seriously going afk for those 5 seconds and just watch at him, drinking coffee

 

It's even worse for Kril. I don't even know what to do with this guy - do i hit to backpack, do i wait for him to use Ice wave? Nothing is certain for this guy, you just spam around his backpack and kill him when he ignites after 5 minutes. 

Oh wait ... Raptor is the same right? Hit -> wait? 

 

 

1. Vor's bubble is only up while his guards are. You should be shooting his guards, not drinking coffee.

 

2. After hitting his backpack, you must wait for him to slam the ground and then freeze. I agree this could be polished and made to happen quicker.

 

3. Raptor is Hit -> Dodge. There is a huge difference.

Edited August 15, 2013 by Archistopheles

[Firetempest]

There is nothing really wrong with these two particular bosses. But them together unchanged wasn't that hot. And the room they fight in is rather horrible too. Kril keeps falling back into the sphere. vor never goes far from a player so hes always up on the rail.

Half of a good boss is patterns built into the room they fight in. Vor would be deadlier if he had some outer wall railings to teleport to and drop Teslas down at you. And instead of teleporting  random enemies they came in from the doors like a proper wave and Kril could buff them up due to his presence.

Depending on the chronological order of Krils fights. Which ever is considered the second meeting should have changed his weakness and attacks.

The coolent tank would be reinforced and no longer the objective.

Give him a new running charge attack that slams his hammer down like a ice attack.

Add explosives that are replenished automatically. Like have the fight in a refueling pad (think Indiana Jones Raiders Of The Lost Ark and fighting the pilot of the flying wing but for those grineer shuttles)

You Bait kril into hitting a explosive. He goes all fire nuts and starting charging, and then you bait him into 1 of 4 cryo tanks. which makes him vulnerable when he rams into it and busts it. Can make it a per 20% health cycle so once into each cryo tank.

[Sev1107]

Vors bubble is up for a timer. It stays even after the guards are long dead.

[Hazmatzone]

DE is reworking most of their bosses

 

It started with Vor but Vor ended up being pretty easy...Geez I wonder why, maybe it's because he's the first boss in the game? What first boss in a game isn't pretty easy to beat?

 

The next is Golem and with him we might see a true enemy who is worthy of being classified as "Boss" Rank.

 

The others will most likely be reworked too but 1 step at a time.

[plznohurtme]

I don't mind the boss tactics at all, I mind the way that they end up working however. The basic ideas behind them are pretty good, but having essentially nothing to do during a boss fight is pretty stupid design wise. Vor's bubble should be based on the death of his "guards" rather than a set minimum timer. Kril should have something else going on during p1 be it spawning waves of minions or just other mechanics... something to cause the players to move rather than everyone just spread out around waiting for the opportunity to kill.

Bullet sponges are boring, but so is just sitting around waiting for something to happen. We need a little combination of both with some actual tactics involved. Invoke mechanics from mmos, put fire underneath people or something to force them to move rather than just stand around. There's a lot of seemingly simple things they could do to improve the nature of bosses and I hope these are things they're looking at.

Giving bosses specific mechanics instead of just being bullet sponges was a great change, however it replaced one bad thing with another in the implementation they've used. Hopefully we'll see some basic changes here in the relatively short future (u10 perhaps *crossing fingers*).

[Rengakun]

It's even worse for Kril. I don't even know what to do with this guy - do i hit to backpack, do i wait for him to use Ice wave? Nothing is certain for this guy, you just spam around his backpack and kill him when he ignites after 5 minutes. 

last time i farmed Kril he was simply High damage dealer and we need to run close to him to make him melee and meantime just spam him with damage. - NOW THOSE WERE TIMES.

You have to shoot the light on his Backpack to let a cable disconnect and dangle from it, wait for him to use an ice ability, repeat 4 times, then he goes flame mode, only then can you kill him.

 

 

Some of these tactics are very tedious indeed...

[low1991]

ya sure while at that, give the boss ability to spam skills:

for example: Kril, give him/her the ability to mass spam most of the skills except for ice wave.

when under attk by boss' ability u will SOMETIME take cover RIGHT??

 

this boss buff'ing/nerfing when it comes is soo stupid... it's like there will never be a balance between what is real annoying and what is real difficulty from each and individual personnel point of view.

[Sixty5]

IMO the best way to do boss fights is to give them a stupid amount to health, but have scripted ways in which massive damage can be dealt.

 

Say for example Krill, in his first stage you can either bring him down with the backpack thing, or by tearing through 1 million effective health.

[Won_Doe]

Enormous health pools are practically mandatory, since we can oneshot nearly everything. I wonder... what does it take to make a boss "good"?

 

Phases. Multiple weakpoints and not just one type (Jackal). Bosses in this game are terribly uninspiring. The thing is were not really sure how far DE is willing to go in order to improve them.

 

Phantasy Star Online 2 / Lost Planet 2 are similar to this game in a few ways, except both of those games have some amazing boss fights.

[JDP04]

Phases. Multiple weakpoints and not just one type (Jackal). Bosses in this game are terribly uninspiring. The thing is were not really sure how far DE is willing to go in order to improve them.

 

Phantasy Star Online 2 / Lost Planet 2 are similar to this game in a few ways, except both of those games have some amazing boss fights.

Yeah DE, PSO2 and LP2 have amazing boss fight. Please take a look. x)

[General_Krull]

1. Vor's bubble is only up while his guards are. You should be shooting his guards, not drinking coffee.

 

2. After hitting his backpack, you must wait for him to slam the ground and then freeze. I agree this could be polished and made to happen quicker.

 

3. Raptor is Hit -> Dodge. There is a huge difference.

1. That's simply not true, I've killed the guards in seconds and then I spent the next 3 minutes humping Vors bubble

 

2. There needs to be a reliable way of baiting an ice attack, right now it seems to be completely random making the fight last waay longer than it needs to be

 

3. Raptor has invincibility phase too, but I think you can damage him during it. 

 

Overall the bosses are kind of interesting and have potential but as they are now they're just time sinks, they take way to much time.