[22.20.5] Spores Revisited Feedback MEGATHREAD

[Rankii]

Saryn's kit is also just unfun to use. Spores don't do anything, Molt is mostly a waste of energy, and misasma is a joke. Rather than nerfing what works, they should be looking back on what saryn is supposed to be and make fun abilities to reflect that. #*!% I could pull a decent poisonframe out of my ass in a second, or at least the basic concept of one. There's the "fix all the frames" thread that has tons of great ideas.

[Kamsa]

Gas doesn't proc spores anymore. You actually have to shoot the spores now which is really bad because the only other way to proc them with my Mutalist Cernos now is by using Toxic Lash (of which if you don't have energy for, you basically only have 1 infected mob...). I also really, really dislike the fact your spores don't carry over status procs anymore (such as gas,toxin,slash, etc.). Please fix :(.

[seprent]

11 minutes ago, 3nk1 said:

ohhh no!!! they pulled the passive aggressive age comment to try and discount my view point because i'm, apparently, young (as if my age would change the validity of my opinion on a game) and to imply they're my elder so automatically more wise.  Seems you're still struggling with sarcasm, I get it, it's hard when there's no body language to go along with the words.  Never said or implied that any nerf should be a complete removal from the game, never said that "someone" said it was bad, but the VAST majority seems to feel that way.

Lad for me is a ageless term and i didnt say my opinion is better then yours i just think yours sounds stupid to me

No matter what DE does a part of the player base will complain they come to terms with that now you either like it or you dont cant please everyone so dont try to 

but quoting again what you said "if they dont want people to use a frame atleast have the decency to remove it rather then nerf it into obscurity" That would mean the removal of almost all the warframes that received "nerfs" or reworks

no more ash, banshee, chroma, ember, Excalibur, frost, gara, hydroid, Vauban, valkyr, oberon, trinity, sayrn, nova, mesa, limbo, and mag might have missed a few but you get the point why i think your opinion is stupid if you just remove it nothing about it will be fixed and you will have even more angry people complaining that their "main" was removed from the game

And i clearly understand sarcasm your just being more on the lines of comedic for me so please do continue i have my popcorn ready and hydron to level on 

 

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

When I heard about the rework I was dreading it immediately, especially when it came out of left field. I started warming up to the idea when I remember as Saryn being one of my favorites, I was super jealous of Nidus's powers/mechanics as I wanted Saryn to leech of those somehow and seeing what was delivered and then the changes I knew were going to come, it's sooooo disheartening x.x oh well. I'll have to wait for it to hit console to see if she's dead to me or not. 

[Neightrix]

I hate Spores now. Obviously not because it's terrible. You can do good damage over a good area and debuff armor by doing one specific thing obsessively well. But man, trying to keep Spores up is the opposite of fun.

Micro-managing Spores is not fun. I do not enjoy being squeamish about pressing 1. I do not enjoy chasing corrosive damage ticks on the UI. Worst of all, Saryn has a severe case of "don't kill anything" syndrome, where you only want to tickle enemies with Toxic Lash. I find it very unsatisfying to avoid killing enemies directly. This seems like way too much headache for a single mechanic. I think would be much better to spread Spores willy nilly as before and find another way to control the damage.

To me, the only significant advantage of current Spores over the pre-rework is the corrosive status. Toxin transfer had much more potential damage especially as burst damage, which unfortunately required an understanding of undisclosed mechanics and weapon restrictions. Toxin transfer also didn't really care if Spores expired, and would have loved Toxic Lash being applied to guns.

Molt explosion is still nerfed to line-of-sight, please undo that. Lastly, I think Spores targeting could stand to be much less strict. It should be enough for an enemy's health bar to appear from looking at them, instead of having to aim center mass just to get Spores to come out.

Toxic Lash and Miasma are immaculate and I have nothing negative to say about them.

Edited May 25, 2018 by Neightrix

[ThePredicament]

One step forward, two steps back. Being able to recast is great! Hurting overall damage to do it? Why? On a normal strength build, maybe even with a Focus, the damage doesn't rise up fast enough to have to neuter the damage build up. Simply no spread on tick death is ridiculous, this restricts weapon selections to those that do heavy/overkill damage instead of fast firing damage since a tick can proc in between bullets ruining the spread. We're basically back at the same point of cumbersome shoot-this-thing gimmick, from the original Spores but at least that had spread on death.

I think the biggest problem with this rework is the idea of INFINITE DURATION and then building around that idea. It's unnecessary, especially for this game, get rid of it, focus around being able to reapply the Spores through spread and the concept of infinite wouldn't bear so much weight on balancing.

[YpsitheFlintsider]

I really like the general direction of making Saryn more accessible. I hated having to using a specific damage type and using Saryn a specific way to be effective. I tend to be more of a caster and more of an active Saryn player, so the "apply and forget" posts don't apply to me. However, spores still seem to spread inconsistently. Pablo said that people would apply spores and forget about them, which really annoys me, because in my games, Saryns didn't do that, and I certainly didn't do that. As a matter of fact, the half range mechanic that was actually purposefully put into the ability made it so you had to be active. So I think that's was just an excuse because they essentially saw the rest of their changes and said, "Oh, those actually look pretty good. We have to nerf something."

 

By the way, guys, use your other abilities.

[Zandre]

2 hours ago, Drador-An said:

I think Saryn is in a great spot now. Don't know why people are so upset. Have been doing multiple runs of different missions and she feels great.

The only things that might need a change is the damage decay is a little fast and the damage block on Toxic Lash

needs to be something that helps both melee and ranged. Damage block increase doesn't really help as much anymore.

(Maybe 20-25% Damage Reduction (Power Strength), then doubled in melee to a max of 80% to keep with the theme.)

Thats just an example, but otherwise I think they balanced her quite well. 

People are upset because DE made the change to nerf the most spore abuse. So before this nerf, saryn lost her 1 dimensional use and gained a new use that was also 1 dimensional but fun in certain missions, like onslaught. However, even in onslaught, she was only useful on 25% of the tiles so she simply made it easy to run a couple tiles. Now they're nerfing her again and its just making it more difficult to do on those tiles and more difficult on everything else she's bad at. This nerf makes her weaker in everything except a couple tiles on onslaught and imo she's still one of the worst frames at killing waves in other mission types. 

Basically, everyone was using equinox to clear waves in the past, then saryn was updated and she was really cool but her spores were difficult to spread at long ranges and beyond a single tile where equinox can easily clear waves around multiple tiles. So now they crippled the only thing saryn was good at and people will go back to using equinox and mesa because saryn is too slow. Not to mention, it looks nice that she has decay instead of instant loss, but the decay kills 60-80% of your damage anyways so, its not really that big of a deal.

[jasonpsy]

Don't know if this is a bug or not: sometimes, when I try to cast a spore on a target and it dies before the casting animation is done (which means the spore hasn't been casted yet), not only the spore doesn't take place, even the existing damage tick counter disappears which means the damage has to be ramped up from 0 again.

[SordidDreams]

My impressions:

Power is almost unaffected. Still perfectly capable of reaching zone 12 of ESO solo, earning some 200K+ Focus in the process (Eidolon lens, no booster).

Playstyle is slightly different now, more active. Having to shoot spores to spread them means you have to run around a bit more. Spore damage builds up much slower but it's also much easier to keep due to being able to recast without losing it all. This also makes it much easier to spread the spores to new groups of mobs, which makes the frame more pleasant and less frustrating to play.

Overall I quite like the changes. The only thing that keeps frustrating me is that you have to be pinpoint accurate when aiming at an enemy to successfully infect them with spores. Even a little bit off and it won't cast. It would be real nice if there was a bit of leeway there for those of us who suck at aiming.

[ThePredicament]

6 minutes ago, jasonpsy said:

Don't know if this is a bug or not: sometimes, when I try to cast a spore on a target and it dies before the casting animation is done (which means the spore hasn't been casted yet), not only the spore doesn't take place, even the existing damage tick counter disappears which means the damage has to be ramped up from 0 again.

Noticed that too. I think it's more of a UI bug. Have had it happen with around 1000 stack and when I cast it again, it would show up around 800. When you are really low on stack, the decay is fast, so it just feels like it resets.

[cole_mooneyes]

The spores really need to spread on death again she just feels bad to play now

[leleupaterno]

I have a solution for infecting mobs and the whole "spores kill the mobs before i hit them" situation.

- Make de spores possible to cast on floor, for a realy reduced area, (like a quarter of the total area). When you cast on floor it make a "spore pod"(kind of a pheliac pod) that you can slam and this will manage to infect mobs around... {note: this won't affect the spores decay}

It may look dumb, but considering every situation I see here, it would be useful.

Btw, I would just put spore propagation trough tick deaths again. Remove it was just awful.

[Buff00n]

Okay, so Saryn is really stressful to play now.  I guess she's now the perfect frame for Onslaught, because your true enemy in both cases is bad spawns.

I've always been running around with gas Ignis rather than hiding and spores are now noticeably harder to spread.  However, the real stress comes from the fact that the damage gain rate is capped while the damage loss rate is not.

You can spend several minutes building up your damage to a level you were able to reach in 30 seconds before 22.20.5.  Then you can lose it all in eight seconds if you can't find another mob fast enough.  Even if you do find one, you're still losing 20% + 10% per second the longer you take.  And even if you are able to avoid decay and get your damage up, you end up trying to avoid recasting as much as possible because that 20% hit can still set you back by a lot of time.

Up until this last update I was on still fully board, but now I feel Saryn has finally crossed over from fun to chore.  Saryn is work.

It might be bearable if the decay rate and re-cast loss was set to a number instead of a percentage, making both the gain and loss rates capped.  Alternatively, remove the gain cap and let us make up the damage gains as fast as we can find mobs.  But having the gains capped and the losses uncapped just makes me feel like I'm being punished by things out of my control.

[MasaJin]

I really dont know how to word how i feel about this change the "no spread on spore kills" its not happy i can't get mad because it is your game you can do what you please. Sadly i had to put my controller down i did not want to play my saryn and she is the only frame i want to play forever it makes her not fun i dont have the energy to keep up with the amount i need to spam her 1 just to keep it active cus i kill everything around me and some lone babies fly off to a corner and i cant find them to pop them they die out i recast it repeats i run out of energy it makes all her other skills not even come to mind to use becuase i have to keep spores going. I liked seeing numbers even if they were tiny baby numbers i didnt want to do tons of damg i wanted to see the the plague of my foes being sick by me and now im a baby sitter who cant go about my mission spreading them i liked the other change before this one it kept me active in chasing down mobs and even if i didnt catch them all they could jump to a new host and i would have energy to keep my 3 active maybe cast a 4 if i need it and 2 to run away. if anything lower the damg whatever u see fit to have spores go body hopping on their own again

[AtrusStrix]

Honestly with the nerf to spreading, I'd rather just go back to the way spores was before where it spread well but did terrible damage and was mainly just for the viral debuff.

Most of the changes seem good on paper, but the decay is too fast to be meaningful enough to keep your damage between waves, and the lack of spreading on killing makes it impossible to maintain the spreading.

[Issxi]

So Spores is completely broken sometimes. Randomly for no rhyme or reason I will lose ALL of my stacks if I recast Spore or sometimes when all infected enemies die. Seems to only happen above 1k damage stacked.

DE, until you get your stuff together and remember this is a game about having fun and NOT being stressed out give me a call. I'll be reorganizing my Saryns on the bookshelf. Thanks. 

[jjpdn]

LOVE IT!

I've never played the previous iterations excluding the first one, so I have no idea what she was like OP, but now she's so much fun! Spores always feel useful and the damage ticks makes me feel giddy. So many people focus on keeping their 20k damage stacks, but lol, if that was easy to get I don't think it would be 1 and only cost 25 energy.

Her kit is actually fun now and every single part is useful. Spore removes lots of armor, Molt's augment is cool, Toxic Lash is insane, and Miasma is great CC was such a damagy frame. 

10/10 rework, though seen some bugs happen. 

Edited May 25, 2018 by jjpdn

[doomagent13]

Being able to recast Spore on a new group of enemies without removing it from a previous group is much better.  To be honest, detonating all spores never really made sense when leaving them would definitely kill the victims.  Needing to detonate the current batch of spores before you could use Spore on another group of enemies made even less sense.

 

Having it not spread at all when a spore kills seems likely to cause complaints of it "stealing" kills, preventing it from spreading to other enemies.  If some non-Spore damage has been done to an enemy that dies to a spore, it should spread.

 

Unless I misunderstood something, any enemy hit by Spore is guaranteed to eventually die without any further interaction, unless the spores get removed by something. (With Nullifiers being the main, if not only, way for spores to be removed without spreading to other enemies.)  Although your sentinel/companion would kill faster at anything but the lowest levels, this seems like a rather questionable situation, particularly for a first ability.  The only ability I can think of that might come close to such a guarantee of a kill is Link, and even that comparison has issues.  Every other ability requires some interaction and/or has a limit to the damage it can do.

 

To be honest, I think you've gone the wrong direction with Spore.  It was a contagious debuff that was unlikely to be lethal unless you got it carrying toxic damage.  Now, it does lots of damage, with a minor debuff that is mostly useless against 2 of the 3 main factions, and only somewhat useful against the 4th.  My suggestion would be to get rid of the scaling damage, switch the damage type to toxic or viral, put back a duration, and have any popped spore spread all status effects the victim was suffering from.  It may not have gotten very many kills, but seeing the constant viral statuses was rather satisfying.

 

Personally, I mostly liked the interaction between Saryn's abilities, although I can see how some players would have trouble understanding them.  The only interaction that I found hard to work with was getting targets afflicted with both toxic and viral in order to maximize the damage from Miasma.  I ended up primarily using Miasma for the brief stun, usually to revive someone.  The interactions between Spore, Molt, and Toxic Lash were fairly straightforward and easy to use.

[W4cky]

5 hours ago, Xarteros said:

The issue with Saryn was never her spores. They were her greatest asset, as a debuffing tool, and as an area damage dealer.

Spores:

The way it is now:

• Targets die too quickly when damage has scaled up enough, reducing your window to spread them
• No more spread-on-death, targets that die effectively force you to recast yet again
• No more transfer of procs; reduced diversity of damage and effect types
• Replacing Viral with Corrosive impacts significantly on her debuffing kit
• Corrosive procs take much longer to give significant effect than Viral procs do, making them less useful than Viral was
• Can't control damage scaling effectively, making it really hard to maintain

The way it was before:

• Damage would start low, and take a while to ramp up. Damage could be boosted with Toxin/Viral weapons, allowing both early and late-game play
• Reduced range spread-on-death penalised players for being lazy, and rewarded players for being active
• Transfer of procs allowed teammates to contribute to spore damage
• Saryn could boost teammate contribution to spore damage with Venom Dose build
• Starting out with low damage allows Saryn to 'seed' multiple groups and then focus on spreading within and between them, making her less 'locked in' as a spam caster
• Viral procs are a valuable debuffing tool, making even a low-strength Saryn decent on a team

I never found duration to be an issue, and every other recent change to spores has effectively reduced their benefit both solo or in a team. It's impossible to get the same sort of effect we had before, and it's just outright bad. I was going to title the second portion 'Changes left to make', but the whole thing just needs to be backpedaled. I know DE put time and effort into the change, but it's a complete nerf and takes away her fun, with nothing to compensate it with.

Now, I know this is the Spores Revisited thread, but in order to understand why spores were just fine, we have to look at her other abilities.

Molt:

The way it is now:

• Molt now scales in health! Woo! We've been asking for this for ages, and it's just great to have it. Better late than never
• Molt can no longer be used as a voodoo doll of spores
• Molt now grants an awkward speed boost upon casting

Changes yet to make:

• Remove speed boost. It feels awkward, doesn't actually help you survive much, and ends up distracting more than helping.
• Replace speed boost with decaying damage reduction (thematically, the last shedding pieces absorbing the blows). Damage negated by damage reduction contributes to Molt's health. Make damage reduction last a flat 3-4 seconds (not affected by duration), scale up to 100% with enough strength (since it's decaying rapidly, it wouldn't stay at 100% for long), and make duration affect the percentage it decays by per tick
• Alternatively: Replace with in-built Regenerative Molt, as some people suggest. Change Regenerative Molt to something else
• Don't allow Spores to be cast on Molt directly, but allow them to be spread onto Molt, as if she were a target. This lets players 'incubate' the damage for short periods of time, without making her into a 'turret' caster

Molt took a step in the right direction in regards to scaling health, but the speed bonus gives her nothing valuable to her kit. It's not like Volt speed, which grants him AoE CC, faster reloading and increased Melee attack speed, and the short duration feels awkward. A decaying Damage Reduction, or an inbuilt regeneration would turn it into a much more useful escape mechanism for late-game, without reverting to its old 'turret'/voodoo doll ways. Allowing it to act as a target/vector for spores lets players build their stacks of Toxin/Viral and have a safe little stash saved in her Molt, awaiting further spread.

Toxic Lash:

The way it is now:

• Now applies to all weapons, instead of Melee. Double bonus for Melee
• With how spores are now, it's the ONLY way to effectively spread spores without having to focus on each and every single spore with an accurate or scatter weapon. This makes Saryn much more energy hungry, and forces use of Toxic Lash just to get effectiveness from Spores
• Still has near-useless blocking bonus on equipped melee
• Lack of energy return really hurts now that Spores have to be spammed just to keep them going, and Toxic Lash has to always be active just to make sure they don't die out completely.

Changes yet to make:

• With my above suggestion to make Molt grant a decaying Damage Reduction value instead of a speed boost, there would be no need for Toxic Lash to retain its near-useless block bonus for melee. This simplifies both abilities, as Molt becomes a clearer escape tool, and Toxic Lash becomes a clearer damage buff
• Lack of energy return would be acceptable if Spores returned to how they were. Alternatively, make it only return energy on Melee hits
• Could spice up the ability by combining the very sub-par Contagion Cloud augment into the base ability. Then, make a more interesting/better augment (like sharing buff with allies, making her more useful as a buff frame)

Miasma:

The way it is now:

• Miasma is a joke. It has been left behind for so long ever since her nuking days ended. Don't bring those back, but it feels so useless in her kit.
• Does Viral instead of Corrosive
• A bit more range on cast
• Still very low duration

Changes yet to make:

• Swap back to Corrosive, since Spores need to go back to Viral in order to keep Saryn as an effective debuff caster
• Make Miasma create a static cloud, instead of a once-off effect
• Miasma clouds not duration-based, but have scaling damage (and possibly status chance) based on spores popped within. Damage scaling decays over time, like recent spore change
• Damage scaling decay affected by power duration
• Up to 4 Miasma clouds at once, like Snow Globe
• Make Miasma pop one spore per enemy per 5 seconds, with a 3 second stun on spore popped.

Miasma needs change. Making it into a static cloud that you can deploy allows Saryn to move about the battlefield, focusing on spreading and maintaining her spore plagues. Leaving the Miasma clouds unattended means their damage scales down over time and becomes less useful. Becomes a valuable CC tool, with synergy for her spores (but not confusing synergy) and actually has a decent chance for use, rather than the occasional poke for the stun

This is a Saryn I would love to play.  To me, it seems well thought out and takes into mind the idea of what the character could and should be.

[Issxi]

5 hours ago, Xarteros said:

The issue with Saryn was never her spores. They were her greatest asset, as a debuffing tool, and as an area damage dealer.

Spores:

The way it is now:

• Targets die too quickly when damage has scaled up enough, reducing your window to spread them
• No more spread-on-death, targets that die effectively force you to recast yet again
• No more transfer of procs; reduced diversity of damage and effect types
• Replacing Viral with Corrosive impacts significantly on her debuffing kit
• Corrosive procs take much longer to give significant effect than Viral procs do, making them less useful than Viral was
• Can't control damage scaling effectively, making it really hard to maintain

The way it was before:

• Damage would start low, and take a while to ramp up. Damage could be boosted with Toxin/Viral weapons, allowing both early and late-game play
• Reduced range spread-on-death penalised players for being lazy, and rewarded players for being active
• Transfer of procs allowed teammates to contribute to spore damage
• Saryn could boost teammate contribution to spore damage with Venom Dose build
• Starting out with low damage allows Saryn to 'seed' multiple groups and then focus on spreading within and between them, making her less 'locked in' as a spam caster
• Viral procs are a valuable debuffing tool, making even a low-strength Saryn decent on a team

I never found duration to be an issue, and every other recent change to spores has effectively reduced their benefit both solo or in a team. It's impossible to get the same sort of effect we had before, and it's just outright bad. I was going to title the second portion 'Changes left to make', but the whole thing just needs to be backpedaled. I know DE put time and effort into the change, but it's a complete nerf and takes away her fun, with nothing to compensate it with.

Now, I know this is the Spores Revisited thread, but in order to understand why spores were just fine, we have to look at her other abilities.

Molt:

The way it is now:

• Molt now scales in health! Woo! We've been asking for this for ages, and it's just great to have it. Better late than never
• Molt can no longer be used as a voodoo doll of spores
• Molt now grants an awkward speed boost upon casting

Changes yet to make:

• Remove speed boost. It feels awkward, doesn't actually help you survive much, and ends up distracting more than helping.
• Replace speed boost with decaying damage reduction (thematically, the last shedding pieces absorbing the blows). Damage negated by damage reduction contributes to Molt's health. Make damage reduction last a flat 3-4 seconds (not affected by duration), scale up to 100% with enough strength (since it's decaying rapidly, it wouldn't stay at 100% for long), and make duration affect the percentage it decays by per tick
• Alternatively: Replace with in-built Regenerative Molt, as some people suggest. Change Regenerative Molt to something else
• Don't allow Spores to be cast on Molt directly, but allow them to be spread onto Molt, as if she were a target. This lets players 'incubate' the damage for short periods of time, without making her into a 'turret' caster

Molt took a step in the right direction in regards to scaling health, but the speed bonus gives her nothing valuable to her kit. It's not like Volt speed, which grants him AoE CC, faster reloading and increased Melee attack speed, and the short duration feels awkward. A decaying Damage Reduction, or an inbuilt regeneration would turn it into a much more useful escape mechanism for late-game, without reverting to its old 'turret'/voodoo doll ways. Allowing it to act as a target/vector for spores lets players build their stacks of Toxin/Viral and have a safe little stash saved in her Molt, awaiting further spread.

Toxic Lash:

The way it is now:

• Now applies to all weapons, instead of Melee. Double bonus for Melee
• With how spores are now, it's the ONLY way to effectively spread spores without having to focus on each and every single spore with an accurate or scatter weapon. This makes Saryn much more energy hungry, and forces use of Toxic Lash just to get effectiveness from Spores
• Still has near-useless blocking bonus on equipped melee
• Lack of energy return really hurts now that Spores have to be spammed just to keep them going, and Toxic Lash has to always be active just to make sure they don't die out completely.

Changes yet to make:

• With my above suggestion to make Molt grant a decaying Damage Reduction value instead of a speed boost, there would be no need for Toxic Lash to retain its near-useless block bonus for melee. This simplifies both abilities, as Molt becomes a clearer escape tool, and Toxic Lash becomes a clearer damage buff
• Lack of energy return would be acceptable if Spores returned to how they were. Alternatively, make it only return energy on Melee hits
• Could spice up the ability by combining the very sub-par Contagion Cloud augment into the base ability. Then, make a more interesting/better augment (like sharing buff with allies, making her more useful as a buff frame)

Miasma:

The way it is now:

• Miasma is a joke. It has been left behind for so long ever since her nuking days ended. Don't bring those back, but it feels so useless in her kit.
• Does Viral instead of Corrosive
• A bit more range on cast
• Still very low duration

Changes yet to make:

• Swap back to Corrosive, since Spores need to go back to Viral in order to keep Saryn as an effective debuff caster
• Make Miasma create a static cloud, instead of a once-off effect
• Miasma clouds not duration-based, but have scaling damage (and possibly status chance) based on spores popped within. Damage scaling decays over time, like recent spore change
• Damage scaling decay affected by power duration
• Up to 4 Miasma clouds at once, like Snow Globe
• Make Miasma pop one spore per enemy per 5 seconds, with a 3 second stun on spore popped.

Miasma needs change. Making it into a static cloud that you can deploy allows Saryn to move about the battlefield, focusing on spreading and maintaining her spore plagues. Leaving the Miasma clouds unattended means their damage scales down over time and becomes less useful. Becomes a valuable CC tool, with synergy for her spores (but not confusing synergy) and actually has a decent chance for use, rather than the occasional poke for the stun

I honestly would hate if she could drop Miasma like snow globes. I hate that fact actually. I think Miasma should create a corrosive cloud around her that stays with her as she moves, leaving a diminishing mist behind her. That way you could toggle Miasma, and jump into the fray and use the Toxic Lash melee buffs to strip enemy armor. I really don't want her to be a caster anymore since the caster gameplay is very boring and no matter how they try to rework her she will always be either a 1-trick-pony or left to the stand there and spam playstyle, which the majority of casters in games like these do. Her original iteration was a melee bruiser, and I really think she should go back to that instead of this BS casting drek they have her on now.

-And before you say Valkyr already is a melee bruiser: Valkyr can't strip armor. Saryn's Miasma being a toggled cloud around her would encourage jumping into the action and frankly, would be more fun. Maybe someday @[DE]Pablo can test this Miasma idea for the giggles. Maybe he will find it to be quite fun.

[den2k]

2 hours ago, Twistedsparkle said:

the changes had absolutely zero effect on my performance negatively
I actually think she might actually be even stronger now with my playstyle

I think people who are crying "its a nerf!" should really just git gud and lick less salt sticks

I can guarantee she affected my performance positively. I never made so many kills in WF before, and I was using a 0 level MR fodder weapon. The kill counter increases without even trying. Not to mention that now she's a very active frame, constantly moving, shooting and casting. Even low level Fissure defenses become a lot of fun.

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

She's quite alright in my book (never been that much of a fan anyway) and infinitely better than 2.0: More active, every skill has its use and synergy doesn't feel as forced.

Ppl seem to forget Spores are just a 1 ability. Having to work for it to do massive damage is 100% warranted, pressing it once and going for a walk wasn't.

@[DE]Pablo: Kudos!

[Windy_Wind]

I like these changes, it makes her more balanced and is easier to keep up with her spore dmg, but the cap of 10 enemy scaling is kinda trash, It should have been at least 15 instead, better yet 20  enemies

[Sasuda]

So it's better than before and more fun, but Spored is still stuck on being effective in only very specific scenarios.

Changes it still could use

• The 10 enemy cap should be a soft cap
• Spread on spore kill changed from 0 to a reduced 1/4 spread range on spore kill
• Drain of decaying damage is still too high for use outside ESO given it's current range/damage restrictions together

Defense missions always reset the counter particularly during the extract screen especially if there's lagging/indecisive/non-conforming-to-the-group-decicion players. Spores is completely reliant on having huge range to be use-able.