[22.20.5] Spores Revisited Feedback MEGATHREAD

[Shonaney]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb Sasuda:

Defense missions always reset the counter particularly during the extract screen especially if there's lagging/indecisive/non-conforming-to-the-group-decicion players. Spores is completely reliant on having huge range to be use-able.

There are also other counters that (mostly) reset.

 

I run a build with 30m spread, 100% status, 5% decay rate and 9% reset decay.

And as far as i could tell, Saryn seems to be usefull.

Ok she is no longer the fire and forget, but may compare to other frames first abilitys.(It's also fire and forget now, just with some kind of attention to it, if u keep on killing/shooting it will spread and killing and shooting is what we do in warframe).  An also scaling ability like Khoras, first good initial dmg cause scale with melee mods and if u use it also with combocounter. But u have to do sth with it, u have to use it, u have to push 1 ... 1 ...1 everytime u see an enemy. And spores? Hit 1, kill the enemy or just hit it with lash active and you spread it up to 45m range, you now could just go on. If u keep on and killing also some of the infected(or with lash just hitting) you could carry the spore just by doing normal interactions like u have to most of the missions with other frames. It become a wave following your path at the stage and if the damage got high enough to insta kill the enemys it has reached the point of other first abilitys, like killing stuff by hittin 1 ...1 ...1 but hey, the dmg decays, so you dont have to do that for a long time cause the spores will drop to a amount u could spread it again without insta kill the initial enemy.

An other way would be to limit spores to max 5% (or 10%) of enemy max hp per tick (so 3 spores tick with 15% dmg (or 30%)). So it would be possible to spread it to enemys without insta kills but also kill enemys fast. (Also could the 10 infected count to dmg ramp up be removed).

(Limit to max mean it doesnt do 5% dmg all the time, but if the ramp hits a high amount of dmg not all of the dmg count for the ticks. So if u have 200 dmg stored a spore would tick with 5 points at a 100 hp enemy, 50 points at a 1000 hp enemy or with 200 at a 10k hp enemy.)

Spread on kill feels more natural, but if it get back into saryn, it needs to be adjusted to not spread around crazy and end as fire and forget. Otherwise spore have to become the 4th ability of saryn.

[Oryana]

Spore spread on enemy death was my favorite thing about Saryn. That was really the only move I ever cared about. Set it and forget it. Now it feels like Saryn is the most micromanage-y frame ever. Will probably sell her for credits if this change sticks

[BladeGrip]

My only gripe with the new change is that I have experienced a lot (And I really mean a LOT) of wasted castings due to the target dying immediately to spore damage right after I cast it. Other than that there's no complaint from me.

My proposed solution (No idea if someone else already proposed the same thing or not) is something to the effect of:

• Each enemy killed by spore tick damage leaves behind a single spore on the spot
• The spores left behind this way will linger for a short time (2-3 seconds, may or may not be affected by Duration)
• Those spores can be detonated by weapon damage and will spread like normal spores when this happens
• Those spores can only take damage from players. Random Napalm or Bombard splash won't do anything to them

This is a quick idea I could think of. Just my 2 cents.

[flameaxle]

In my opinion, I think the mechanism of spore growing should not depend on the amount of enemy, it should related on your attack of the enemy who was infected by spore, that will help she against a large group of the enemy without "pre-heat" the spore.

so, there is a idea,

• Cast a spore and it will do 1 damage per tick (3 spore 3 damage per tick), any method to pop the spore will spread in the radius
• When toxic slash active, every spore you pop makes the counter growing,( I think 1 spore for 4 dmg and depend on strength. )
• Every enemy killed by spore will decrease the counter 3 dmg and not spread to other enemy,  but  give saryn 3 energy <<< a kind of brake mechanism !
• After 15 sec you don't put any spore on enemy will decrease 20% the counter.
• You can also re-cast spore on other non-infected enemy but only 30% dmg of the counter.( it makes sure have enough time to pop the spore rather than kill the enemy instantly.)

I'm a syran player want she more playable too, hope @[DE]Pablo will like this.

Edited May 25, 2018 by flameaxle

[Tonberryc]

After testing Saryn in several mission types today, I'm sad to say that despite all of the exciting changes, Saryn is much worse off than before today's patch.

Enemies that die to spores no longer spreading spores is countering every other positive change that was made.

• The 50% cost reduction when recasting spores is overwhelmed by having to recast 4-5 times as often due to significantly less efficient spores spread. We also frequently are stuck with the full cost due to not being able to maintain active spores as easily.
• Shooting a target that's already infected typically results in no spread since the spores only have to land the killing tick to negate everything else done to that enemy.
• If I play the frame well and maintain my stacks without running out of energy, then enemies die too quickly from the spores to spread them.
• Saryn now requires micro-managing:

1. spore damage stacks
2. number of enemies infected by spores
3. locations of enemies infected by spores
4. maintaining line-of-sight to at least one enemy infected by spores
5. energy cost of frequently recasting spores
6. not letting damage stacks get too high in lower level missions to avoid 1-shotting freshly infected enemies resulting in no spread whatsoever

The depressing part is that Saryn is still a strong warframe in specific conditions (mainly high enemy density missions and maps), but it doesn't matter because she just isn't fun to play.

I recommend these alternatives:

• Allow spores to spread on death by spore OR any non-spore damage done to an enemy still spreads spores on death (not just the final damage tick)
• Better duration scaling to reduce the damage drop off
• Allow spores to persist on corpses that didn't auto-spread spores to avoid insta-death clunky gameplay at high damage stacks
• Better tracking of infected targets (a small aura or glowing cloud visible through walls)

The following feels a bit unreasonable to me, but I'll throw it in anyway in case I'm overestimating the time requirements to make the change:

• Casting spores while the spore damage counter is above zero causes a "spore bloom" that instantly spreads from a single target.

This change would simultaneously remove the insta-death issue at high damage stacks while not requiring spores to spread on spore death. Even if no target is infected, then the "bloom" would still go off since it is based on the spore damage counter which is active until the damage goes to zero.

Edited May 25, 2018 by Tonberryc
Clarification on suggestions.

[myuushii]

sigh

She feels kind of annoying to use now as if she had anti synergy with herself. Mod STR and the enemies die before you can spread it. Focus on max range and the scaling is too low for higher level added to her still having laughable survivability. The former is technically a good thing but it doesn't feel fun at all. I know people had issues with the rework but to me it felt like a complete concept and fitted the idea of her being a disease (read corrosive...) spreading killer. Now you run around in full stress mode, forced pointing at enemies directly and spamming 1 and hope they don't die before you can shoot/hit them.

I kind of don't feel like playing her anymore, coming from a Saryn main and I was extremely enthusiastic about the initial rework. But this is almost anti fun, not to mention with the energy cost of spamming 1, I don't use Miasma again.

I know she technically still works and is strong but come on. Thematically she seems ruined and I don't enjoy the spam 1 playstyle. Molt still sucks. It would also be nice to use more than 2 skills on a frame, ignoring Molt for the health regen. I used all 4 with the initial rework since even the speedboost made sense to help cultivating the spores on the map by running from group to group (as melee Saryn). Now her kit  feels like a patchwork ruining the initial concept of the rework, like I predicted.

 

 

I'll also leave this here is it showcases a lot of my points:
 

 

Edited May 25, 2018 by myuushii

[DarkEJ]

Well i played a few hour now with new Saryn.
SO how it feels now:
It's hurts a lot now. **(I'm bad at post editing so u can put image there.)

So some pluses of new spores revision:

- yes, they are now more comfortable to use and spread manual.

- decoy is really needed invention.

- removing explosion is good decision.
And some disadvantages :
- 2 New bugs :

1 Spores damage counter dissapear, but spores still there on enemy. (Not vital)
2 Decoy didn't appears on last enemy died, like at previus mechanic u should start from 0. (Very vital)

- Nullfiers are now fun breakers if u play melee style that affects all saryn gameplay

- 10 enemy as max damage boost is to week for the decoys speed, waste a lot of dps, at my build decoy is 11%(basic 10%).
- decoys rate is to strong for now.
- i miss a lot @spores self spread on kill mechanic , if i'm a main DD frame.

 

So i came to conclusion : Saryn become now a caster/support frame more then DD frame at high levels.
Im not speaking of enemy lvl under 70, I do like play long time survivals and same type missions, full of high level and a caster saryn,  feels there as caster\support frame, for corrosive proc ( that's  mean less when u have 4 corrosives projections, nova still bettter as example). 
And caster frame is weak against high level , because enemy level 150 + just shot until u waste time standing .
 

So what I wanted too see in future for saryn:

-More effective 2, some enemy just ignores it and keep shot at u, so more agro generation needed or making more armored saryn as basic.
-Self spread at spore killed enemy OR more then 10 enemy damage boosting.
- Some energy gain mechanics OR builds when saryn can forget about duration OR extra mod slots (a way to stupid, ikr.)

**And belive me i know right how to play via saryn :) 
Party set up saryn, equinox, trinty as main dd, volt .
elite 16 wave.

Edited May 25, 2018 by DarkEJ
Screenshot disscription

[KnightofNSFW]

So far, she is still quite a good DPS on enemies with high density (def/survival/SO). I noticed the following problems, in order of priority: 

1. On high Spore tick counts, sometimes recasting resets the counter to 0, which is very frustrating when the ticks now take a lot of work to keep up. It seems to happen when only one enemy infected is left. Conduit 30% efficiency drain and the defense/interception mission counters drain most of your ticks, when coupled with the fact that focus gains are only on the first 45 seconds in SO this hurts a lot focus gains. I went from 22-30K per wave to 8-15k, and 3k on a particularly bad wave.

2. Completely removing spread on death, again, makes high spore tick counts problematic, as on a recast you instantly kill enemies before they spread via toxic lash or other kill means, wasting energy. Combined with the bug 1 it´s aggravating. 

3. Energy consumption is quite bad again. Toxic Lash´s refund on hit by spore was removed on the grounds that Spores now have infinite duration, but by removing the spread on death I am having to cast again a lot more of the time. 

4. Multiple Saryns still overwrite each other on the "first in prevailing" system. This may be intended but it is a bit odd, especially now that you only need infected enemies and it doesn´t matter that they have 1, 2 or 3 spores on them, they still contribute to your 10 enemy damage cap. 

It also seems to be affected by latency as the old spores, but the lag is nowhere as bad as it was before since now all spores have the same damage ticks, instead of before each spore carrying over different ticks (which was hell on my CPU with my build). I think that was the best part of the rework. Ramp up feels much slower for me now, with these changes my average ticks in ESO are 500-1500 compared to the 3000-4000 I had before, but this is okay as with 1500 enemies still die quite fast and the scaling rate was quite broken before.

Build data: STR 200, RNG 235, EFF 50, DUR 128. I run Hunter Adrenaline and a lv1 Arcane Energize.

I7 6700, GTX980, 16 GB ram. Warframe runs on an SSD. 

[Forkinatorr]

Played around with the saryn changes, I really want to like them but there is a very obvious cap at which spores no longer cut it. While playing  Elite Sanctuary Onslaught(ESO), saryn's damage will  not be enough to keep going. The damage being low, is due to having only 10 enemies count towards the "ramp up" damage.   This should be increased to 20.         

 

Another issue i have run into is now that we have to be more active, we are also getting hit ALOT more. Saryn does not  cut it in survivability in ESO.  She either needs more health, or more armor. 

Energy usage is pretty bad now too. It wasn't so bad when spores  had infinite duration and spread on death, but now that we are constantly having to "herd" the disease around, this means a lot more casting. Along with having to prioritise strength and range, we don't have room for efficiency mods  with the current saryn. 

There should also be some adjustment to the decay. It is pretty damn fast when going through a portal and in a mode that is all about Kills per second, this is bad, especially considering the already large damage reduction of spores.   This could be combated by increasing the maximum enemy ramp up cap to 20 or higher. 

Also, not sure how decay is going to be handled in defense where there is a period between waves where nothing happens. I think decay should be paused until the "wave starts in XX seconds" timer runs out and enemies start spawning. 

 

After trying her out, i went to see what others are saying. Brozime(a  popular Warframe youtuber) did a ESO run and had the same issue as i did. If you want to see it, link is below. He goes more in depth than i do. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pz-2YER9n_8

 

Edit: one more thing. Regenerative molt could use an increase in healing due to the playstyle of Saryn now. Make it scale with power strength maybe?

 

All in all, this is not as fun. I think that is the main thing here.

 

Edited May 25, 2018 by Forkinatorr

[djcubed4]

It feels more engaging that's for sure but that's it. 

The Spores not spreading on death is pretty awful. It's actually infuriating. Having to constantly watch a number DECAY over and over in ESO is just stressful. It's a plague, not the flu; I shouldn't have to be constantly sneezing on my foes just to keep my infection going. There is so much high maintenance with these Spores now when before they could do work on its own.

I get it, you want to prevent the AFK nature of Spores. But this change just adds stress to my gameplay. I can still kick ass in ESO and still dominate DPS and I can still focus farm like a mother f*cker. All that's different is now my heart rate is going at a million BPM.

Before, I could stop to take a breather and watch with satisfaction the destructive nature of my spores. 

She is still a beast in ESO but overall, I feel that this change makes her so much less fun and so much more stressful to play. 

[catastrophy]

Imo, there is too much focus on the damage part of spores, when it should be more of a utility and tool. And that said I'd focus on the armour stripping part of spores and good transmission rate and rather have an optional damage inserted by player action - just like Saryn was before. You gotta need to figure out some damage formulas - I can't help with that. I dunno - make it ignore armour?

[Enigma626]

So I was thinking about Saryn, why not allow the spores to spread like before this hotfix or maybe even better buuut the ramp up is very low. The damage will only ramp up if Saryn is in a 45 or so metre radius from the infected enemies. So basically she can infect huge areas but to actually kill them she needs to be in the fight to create hot-spots of damage. I do see the problem that if you want to be a melee Saryn and jump into the fight everything in your immediate vicinity dies before you can hit it, maybe have a donut shape of strength around her, so enemies within 10 m aren't affected by the localised damage ramp up but there is like a ring of damage around her. This would discourage cast and sit gameplay and force players to actually engage the enemy but at the same time allowing her to be viable in more mission types. Make Saryn the epicenter of the storm in terms of her ability damage as she moves through the map. Also the decay should be scale based on efficiency not duration in my opinion but I get the reasoning there. Also keep damage decay when all enemies are killed but decay slower and allow spores to spread on tick death but have a hard cap of 1 enemy (not sure) to get infected.

(also Regenerative Molt scaling with power strength, still baffles me that the augment's properties aren't in the normal molt).

 

So tldr version, make the spores even more infectious than her initial rework but the insane damage is only localised to the area around Saryn in a ring shape. This would address the issue of fire and forget she had and what they wanted to eliminate.

 

As it stands now having to run like a mad man to get enemies to infect on certain missions is a nightmare and doesn't promote fun gameplay in my opinion. By nerfing range and how spores spread Saryn's even worse on the star chart which is completely counter to what this fix was designed to do, make her less OP in SO and buff her a bit in regular content.

Edited May 25, 2018 by Enigma626
Pasted from a discord chat, the background colour seemed to paste with the text

[Scalio]

Spores not spreading on death just feels bad, now I'm fighting my own abilities for the kills. If a spore kills a target, it's a "wasted" spore.

[MerlinSorcerer]

15 hours ago, Mover-NeRo said:

So my biggest issue is now to actualy spread the spores. Once you get some dmg on it and you try to recast it on new enemy it simply kill him and you will not get the chance to pop the spores. This leads to casting spores too manny times and its totaly not energy efficient. My soulution:

• Let us pop the spores with weapons 1-3 sec after the target dies. Decay will start at target death like it is now. 
• OR start the Spore dmg ticks after 1 sec (basicly give us time to pop it)
• OR  some kind of energy refund

I totally agree with this.  Everything is fine with the saryn spore rework.   (maybe too powerful compared to the old spores, but thats not the main problem)

My suggestion would be:   
If a spore kills an enemy. -> the spores spread at full range to everyone -> TOTAL  damage reduced by 80% (or 2%/each newly affected enemies capped at 80%) and starts growing again with the maximum 10 host.  (depending on ability str, like with the decaying mechanism.)

Edited May 25, 2018 by MerlinSorcerer

[SvenKajima]

Since you guys ask for feedback here goes:

Not exactly a fond of that decaying damage. Its way too fast especially with the fact that spores will only spread when killed by other thing than the DoT of spores themselves. What I think would be better is:

• Allow the spores to spread as enemies dies when killed on DoT or by weapons or friendly frames
• OR Keep it this way but allow weapons especially those with explosion or area DoT (Ogris, Torid, Pox, etc) to pop and spread the spores.

By allowing either one of it, it will cover the problem with the decay being too fast. Maybe when playing with a friend or full squad the decay won't feel as bad, but for solo players this decay is too much. If let say making the spores to be able to spread by weapon damage is too "op/unbalanced" then if possible, at least allow the spores only pop-able/spreadable on shot/damage from the Saryn who cast it. Saryn spored them Saryn spread them.

Limiting the damage growth with only 10 enemies is good, it keeps Saryn from being too overpowering, but at least let Saryn pop and spread her spores on weapon damage. This will allows more efficiency to any Saryn-spore build. If this still overpowering, then let Saryn spread spore on weapon damage but give the spore damage growth a fix number.

For example initial spores increase damage by 2 (so 3 spores on 1st target generate 6 dmg/s) and the next infected target generate 1 dmg/spore/s up to 10 enemies (10 x (up to 3 spores x 1 enemies) = about 30 dmg/s). So with initial spores + 10 enemies damage will grow with 36 dmg/s CONSTANTLY not scaling with power mod or enemy level.

I believe making it like this (even with the decay) + making the spores spreadable on weapon damage should make Saryn balance, not too overpowering, energy efficient as well as fun to play for solo players.

 

I am mostly a solo player, who already have 3 Saryn builds of course which suits my play-style. But your changes honestly has been hurting that play-style.

[Keltik0ne]

I'm kinda liking the new spores,although they would be better as viral (for utility only, they are ok as corrosive) mechanic seems overly complex for what it does, but better than the press 1 to "oops" from the last version.

Molt is still not great, for reasons that have long been discussed about utility of decoy vs real cc. Aug is still great

Lash is still solid

Miasma is kinda meh, but hey, you only really need 1 and 3.

[painterman]

Well, after some testing in ESO(the new standar for balancing  things even if its a bad place to do that) im gaining 30-40k less focus in the same 8 waves compared to the old saryn and 10-20k with suboptimal lenses( greater for saryn and normal for the other) with other tipical farming methods, so yea, this is a nerf.

And that donst include the fact that now saryn feels clukly, i mean, i have to ajust my builds so i can at least try to maintain the spores and kill more with weapons plus the fact that im runing around the map following the spores in hopes of spreading then, it just feels bad and 80% of the time a reset in the damage would be the same as recasting after losing more than half of the stored damage, it just feels bad, even if isnt that bad in terms of kills/dmg.

 

At this point i would just go back to the old spores, spread viral, which if almost always more usefull than corrosive, and spread toxin procs carried from toxic slash/weapon procs, that feelt good. This "go back" also conserving the invality to cast spores to molt and the current molt/toxic/miasma are really good, they dont need any more changes.

So far im going back to play things like volt, were i can get similar damge to current saryn, with more survivality AND not needing to follow spores around and hope more enemys spawn.

[R4dioS1lence]

Last changes made the Spore damage more stable, but are also bringing her back to the spammer status and losing a good part of its identity. What I'll it's probably being repeated here a lot, but anyways.

_{BTW, I'll use "efficiency" in the generic sense of the word.}

Before these reworks, Saryn was "build at least not horribly, spam to win". After the reworks became "build properly, know how your ability works, pick a good initial target, kill it manually after infection, pay attention to the spread and increase it manually when needed, and then win". Now it's getting back to the spam status, but instead that spamming the ability, you have to manually go around killing enemies to spread the spores. Thanks to that, the Spores became just a "secondary helper" to the "player ability" to use weapons (like any other frame).

If the spread and damage ramp up were so bad (mind that there are still other builds capable of same or more destruction than her, some with about the same effort), there were many more options than just going back to your safe place of spamming (even if trying to paint it as "player action" since it's not ability spamming, but mouse click spamming).

One option would be to mimic disease spreads and limit number of infections on kill/spore explosion, something like 2 extra infections on kill. If the player just waited, the ability could become deadly, but would require lots of time, and the average efficiency over time would be bad. But if instead, the player acted upon it to accelerate the initial process (acting as a catalyst of the ability), soon the number of infected could become high enough for the ability to sustain itself. And if at any time, like when diseases kill to much and end up isolating the target populations, player action could revert the situation by accelerating the process again. This would increase player action, not only in number of actions per time, but also in the significance of these actions (it's just not plain shooting around to spread, it's knowing where to spread and how much to kick-start it).

Another option would be, since spores aren't affected by Duration and last until enemy is killed, to make the Spores spread dependent on Duration. If well tuned, this could create variant builds with different combinations of the stats (highly spreading, but short range, or long range with low spread), each with different play-styles, but still achieving high efficiency as long as they know how to work with their combination.

I always thought Saryn was supposed to be an avatar of its namesake (Sarin gas), evoking high spread of destruction, while also mimicking diseases and such, but now it's just another frame that has powerful abilities and require more player direct action to achieve good efficiency rather than difficult building decisions based on mechanics and play-style adaptation.

But hey! At least melee builds got better, right? And now stacking Volt speed with Molt speed becomes ludicrous! Awesome trade-off in the end, right?

[Wyrmius_Prime]

I like it. I still get 2.3k kill on a public ESO run to round 8. Damage still ramps up nicely, although slower. The main point of the rebalance in my opinion is the fact that spores are now way easier to spread in regular missions. That's what the update nailed!

Molt is still useless though. Now that spores can now longer be cast on it, I don't see it being worth investing a mod slot into Regen Molt. It is way easier to just spin to win with any status based polearm with Healing Return equipped.

Miasma is still very much mediocre. No damage, limited CC, it is basically just for the Viral procs.

Edited May 25, 2018 by Wyrmius_Prime

[Britishbong]

I have played with saryn for quite a bit now and enjoy some of the changes like the new damage although it was fun killing everything it was over the top and needed toning down, although the new damage is good I think totally removing spores ability to spread was a bit over the top. When you do higher levels (60+) is not so bad and is kinda enjoyable but it when you do any level under that, is when spore becomes more frustrating to use since either you cant find any enemies in time or the damage will just get to the top where it kills all infected before you have chance to do anything. I can see why you wanted to tone down spores ability to spread but completely removing spread on death was a bit much and in my opinion, a better approach would've been a % of spores would spread on death so it not as strong but it still has that spreading potential. also, the decay is a nice idea but I find that it drops bit fast and by the time you find another enemy to use spore you've lost the majority of the damage built up.



But hey that's just my opinion

[Renzo]

@[DE]Pablo

I think this iteration of Saryn (or the spores) is actually quite decent. I played some ESO (solo) and also some normal missions with Saryn and I think I am liking what I am seeing. No longer will one be able to just spore an enemy and go hide in some corner, but keeping up the spores actually takes some effort. This is really good, because playing warframe actively is much more interesting than waiting passively something to happen.

The spread of the spores is much better now, which was not really the case before this patch. I checked the damage ramp-up in simulacrum, because it would be difficult to see during the normal gameplay and I can see the nerf there easily, but it is not bad at all considering I am testing against Lv.155 corrupted heavy gunners. While playing ESO it was still killing enemies to the last wave (8) good as long as I was keeping the spores up after enemies died to it.

I also did some normal start chart missions (syndicates, alerts, etc) with Saryn and it was fine, I could easily see the spread being better and while the damage ramp-up was slower than before, the low level enemies still got killed quite fast, faster than I could shoot them down with my shotgun in most cases, especially if the enemies were behind geometry or just otherwise scattered a lot.

For the first time ever when I am playing Saryn, I feel I am being active thanks to the change of spores not spreading on their own.

Thanks for these changes, they were much needed.

Edited May 25, 2018 by runx0

[Sergster]

I've discovered an interesting issue with spores currently: When all spores are detonated on their own, as in the enemies die either to them or something else, the stacked damage instead of decaying like it should, simply vanishes all at once. My suggestion, on spores, is to allow spread through enemies dying to them but at half the range, since currently it really feels like old saryn, keep spamming 1 to keep those spores on enemies, the old rework albeit a LITTLE crazy, was far better.

[Niennah]

Current common occurence:

1) Attacking spored enemy with a moderate or low speed weapon;

2) Enemy dies from spore tick between attacks - 0 spores spread.

Fix proposal: for enemies that are within 50m and in direct vision of Saryn (mesa 4 cone-style) allow spore spread from spore tick kills.

[Scruphe]

Nahh DE this is ridiculous. These changes mainly concern the Onslaught missions and any other instance of a single tight-knit room where I dont have to leave the room, really. Stop limiting these changes to an onslaught environment. 

Decay is crazy (especially outside of onslaught), Line-of-sight is ridiculous (outside of onslaught). new dmg limits are.. smh.

This is coming from someone who obviously play Saryn OUTSIDE OF ONSLAUGHT. Alongside many other people, I've been using her as a main before this whole onslaught & Saryn craze. Instead of leaving the changes how they were, we are now forced to complete change our play style with our frame of choice, and its not for the best compared to how it was before. 

Dont buff the powers then give a nerf (regardless of the "We are monitoring this" notice. It feels like you guys are only monitoring her in Onslaught).
P.S. Saryn is popular for onslaught due to the FUN Focus farming, which doesnt exist anywhere else in the game.

TL;DR You're really making a lot of players unhappy about these Saryn changes. Merged with the melee nerfs, its kinda bring people to their breaking point of leaving the game. We kinda begging you guys here.

Edited May 26, 2018 by Scruphe

[retrosolid]

6 hours ago, Forkinatorr said:

Played around with the saryn changes, I really want to like them but there is a very obvious cap at which spores no longer cut it.

Removing all armor does not have a "cap"