I tried trinity nuke build and..

[(PSN)robotwars7]

I'm fine with it honestly. we wouldn't be seeing Castanuke Trin in the first place if DE had only given Consoles the same efficiency drain as PC. finding a Castanuke Trin is one thing, finding a GOOD Castanuke Trin that doesn't die every few nukes or so is a much harder ballgame. in some cases the Efficiency gained from nuking is then lost because the squad has to get the Trinity up all the time.

but hey, we all know at the back of our minds that DE have a Trinity nerf just waiting in the wings... only a matter of when it gets released..

[Trichouette]

il y a 30 minutes, (PS4)BOSS_TPH76 a dit :

I play a link Trininty with castana rivens and there are a lot of "ifs" and "buts" there.

That's because you play with castanas...

il y a 30 minutes, (PS4)BOSS_TPH76 a dit :

But then again...so does my Lenz or IgnisW...

Your lenz or ignis don't instagib the map.

il y a 31 minutes, (PS4)BOSS_TPH76 a dit :

or the abilities of many other frames. 

Which is why they're getting nerfed/reworked one by one.

il y a 32 minutes, (PS4)BOSS_TPH76 a dit :

Well they didn't. Never heard any really logical arguent why they "need" to limit endless missions.

You don't get it.

I didn't say "they have to limit endless", I said "they needed a way to prevent players from staying forever".

Just like survival has life support and defense has objective's health bar.

Without efficiency/life support/objective, you would be able to stay forever. (which is the case in excavation).

il y a 33 minutes, (PS4)BOSS_TPH76 a dit :

I think Trinity is very good game play and a great addition to an otherwise one trick pony. Efficient, kills for the team and gets the job done. Love having a link Trinity on my team. 

After spending a huge amount of time in onslaught firing at my own feet, sorry but I do not consider this to be a great gameplay...

However it is very efficient and requires minimum effort.

[SenorClipClop]

9 hours ago, (XB1)deathopz123 said:

Why is everyone crying to nerf this build it doesn't seem like it would hurt anyone?

To put it bluntly, players asking for (or just expecting) a nerf perceive that Castanas Trin is unintended gameplay. Link is a defensive ability and Castanas are a weapon to be used on enemies. Both of these things are being turned on their heads when used to nuke rooms.

Furthermore, this setup falls right in line with DE's nerf pattern: if it kills everything in your average mission quickly and without giving the enemy a chane to attack you (or even see you), it's probably gonna get a nerf. DE wants their game to be engaging, so they don't want the most effective strats to be ones where you don't engage.

Edited May 26, 2018 by SenorClipClop

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

People cry nerf to anything that works better than what they use or like to use.

It has been like this for the past 5 years.

Why else do you think that the same things get nerfed and buffed back and forth over the years and the situation still doesn't change?

Because this community's concept of balance is "Anything better than what I used is OP. Anything that I use which is not as good as what other people use needs a buff".

Read enough forum posts here and you will notice the trend of "Item A is OP because of X reason" and then when Item A is nerfed and people call for Item B to be nerfed because of then same X reason, that same player will say "No! Item B requires lots of forma and build and effort and ... It should not be nerfed!!"

[LordNero86]

I have TC build myself and tbh it clears stuff really quickly BUT it's not my cup of tea, hence I don't use her anymore. When someone brings her to ESO or defense, it means I can somewhat relax and just collect stuff. I don't really mind having TC in the team. That's my personal opinion tho

Let's look at the reality here. DE clearly doesn't want that kind of gameplay. Look at ember wof (I miss her, I do), glaive wukong, saryn spore turret and others as examples. So, those who enjoys TC, enjoy it while you still can. All the power for you. 

[dEjAvU5566]

Nuke Trinity only require 2 mods: Aviator + one resistance mod depends on the weapon.

The rest only affect whether it's NUKE or nuke.

Change how aviator mitigation works solves the NUKE problem( cause suicide guaranteed if modded with too much strength)

And for nuke, IMO everybody still have fun killing mobs so that wouldn't be much of a problem.

No need to nerf Trinity itself, I like the idea of changing this defensive skill into a aggressive wide area damage skill.

Edited May 26, 2018 by dEjAvU5566
typo

[SenorClipClop]

48 minutes ago, dEjAvU5566 said:

No need to nerf Trinity itself, I like the idea of changing this defensive skill into a aggressive wide area damage skill.

The issue is with how Trinity gets to be aggressive. The only way for her abilities to become a weapon is for you to, instead of attacking enemies, attack your own feet. Whether or not they decide to keep it, the one aggressive build is a hackneyed way to play the  game.

Instead of keeping a dysfunctional setup, I would suggeet removing this playstyle and giving Trinity the update she needs to be a proper combatant. Make her abilities castable in the air, or at least while moving. Give us multiple passive Well of Lifes with a passive buff when standing in proximity, let Link be recastable. Mostly, can we please just make it so Trin's animations don't punish her as much for getting into the thick of things?

Edited May 26, 2018 by SenorClipClop

[Bao]

Self-damage Link Trinity is a very niche build and one that I've only recently tested out. It's powerful, but does require some micromanaging to make effective. With that being said, does it need to be nerfed? Possibly, but given the fact she's already been nerfed at least once, I feel her kit needs to be adjusted and not just slammed with the nerf hammer as everyone is asking for it to be. Do I have a suggestion on how it should be changed? Aside from a few folks asking for her abilities to be castable while in the air, not really. Most everyone has said what needs to be said.

 

It's really easy to just ask people "Hey, I have this build. Is it alright with you if I use it?" If they say yes, happy hunting. If they say no, just Link and shoot things as normal. Maybe it's just courtesy has been ingrained in me enough to at least ask before I go ham, but I don't think it's that much of an issue if you give them a heads up. I've never had any issues with my teammates complaining about my Link-Trin build, and I've taken her on more than a couple dozen runs thus far. Maybe they complain to their friends and clanmates and not the forums, Idk.

 

If they do change her though, they better take into consideration how it affects her "regular" or "support" builds. Because sometimes I like a mean 300% power strength Trinity to just burst teammates with energy so they stop *@##$ing and whining about "energy pl0x". And with Bless, I'm more than happy to let teammates die if I already apply a 20-30 second 75% damage reduction buff on them and they're still stupid enough to stand in the line of fire and get downed, and they ask "wtf no bless?". And Link is kind of an in-between of both, so hopefully they don't go messing her up too badly.

[(PSN)BOSS_TPH76]

8 hours ago, Trichouette said:

That's because you play with castanas...

Sancti. Yes. As do most people. So of you have a build that doesn't use castana's then your arguments are not really appropriate.

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Your lenz or ignis don't instagib the map.

Neither does the link Trinity and saying she does is an extreme exaggeration.

Quote

Which is why they're getting nerfed/reworked one by one.

Eh. Nope. This one is not getting reworked for a bit. 

 

Quote

You don't get it.

No I think you do not get it. 

Quote

I didn't say "they have to limit endless", I said "they needed a way to prevent players from staying forever".

And I am saying that...no....they don't.

Quote

Just like survival has life support and defense has objective's health bar.

And both are stupid. 

Quote

Without efficiency/life support/objective, you would be able to stay forever. (which is the case in excavation).

And? Your point? 

Here is the thing. You seem to have a thing with greatly exaggerating. Enemy scaling. So no....most people won't be able to stay forever. And if people do want to stay "for ever".... why not?

Quote

After spending a huge amount of time in onslaught firing at my own feet, sorry but I do not consider this to be a great gameplay...

I never said it is great game play. But the game is filled with mediocre game play and sub par mechanica. Not everything needs to be "great".

Quote

However it is very efficient and requires minimum effort.

Yes it is efficient.

No...it sure as hell does not require minimum effort. In fact....it requires more effort and skill than most guns, most frames and most abilities.

Majority of which is spray and play and run and gun. There are only a handful of items and abilities and frames that require somewhat of skill and effort...the rest is just running around and pressing or holding a button.

And it is so freaking easy...yesterday we finished a mission with a two year old playing and doing decent. 

[Lucavee]

25 minutes ago, (PS4)BOSS_TPH76 said:

Yes it is efficient.

No...it sure as hell does not require minimum effort. In fact....it requires more effort and skill than most guns, most frames and most abilities.

Majority of which is spray and play and run and gun. There are only a handful of items and abilities and frames that require somewhat of skill and effort...the rest is just running around and pressing or holding a button.

And it is so freaking easy...yesterday we finished a mission with a two year old playing and doing decent. 

I'm sorry... what? Since when does pressing some buttons in specific order a skill? Link, fire at feet x2-x3, jump, alt fire. Repeat as needed. Wheres the skill in that? You dont even need to move or aim. At least with "running around and pressing or holding a button" you have to aim, which involves in spotting the enemy in the middle of high speed movement. 

Claiming Link-Trin requires skill... i got a feeling you're playing the wrong game mate. Might wanna try guitar hero.

[(PSN)BOSS_TPH76]

1 hour ago, Lucavee said:

I'm sorry... what? Since when does pressing some buttons in specific order a skill? Link, fire at feet x2-x3, jump, alt fire. Repeat as needed. Wheres the skill in that? You dont even need to move or aim. At least with "running around and pressing or holding a button" you have to aim, which involves in spotting the enemy in the middle of high speed movement. 

I didn't say it requires a lot of skill but it requires more skill in the form of timing and more actions. And keeping up your energy meter. 

Aim? Lol. 

Literally me on every single mission: "holds down fire button and runs through the level". Still gets in top 50% rank of the squad. 

Also me: "Uses any AOE weapon and shoots semi randomly in the general facinity of enemies". Still gets in top 50% rank of the squad. 

Also me: "Runs past all the enemies. Kills one target or destroys object runs to exit". Zero kills. Less than 2% damage taken. Mission over in under 3 minutes. 

Don't talk about skill as if it matters or is really a thing in this game. 

The problem isn't the builds. It is the awful enemy scaling. 90% of the game is trivial after a certain point. And by the time skill actually starts becoming a thing....builds like a link-Trinity are detrimental to the team composition and the wrong choice for the mission. 

Quote

Claiming Link-Trin requires skill... i got a feeling you're playing the wrong game mate. Might wanna try guitar hero.

You are the one claiming other builds require skill. And I agree there are some builds that actually do require a bit of skill to master but this game doesn't require any.

The idea that "aiming" is "skill" in this game is hilarious. Just vaguely hoover the giant ass recticule on any body part and 99 out of 100 times you will completely vaporize the enemy. Like I said...a 2 yo can do it and perform well.

The only issues I ever had with this game was when I didn't yet know how to deal with certain bosses and their mechanics. And I ran through half the game without any mods or even upgraded mods because I thought they were bothersome and didn't really want to spend the time figuring the mod system out.

But equally....I also often encounter enemies that just either run at me with 0 regard or just stand there while I hit them repeatedly with, for example, a level 0 ungilded zaw. 

But if you think this game poses any real challenge then I suggest you stay away from the DS franchise or even Save the World. 

Edited May 26, 2018 by (PS4)BOSS_TPH76

[robbybe01234]

If ember was nerfed for the reason that players didn't get to engage with enemies then, on principle, this trinity build has to be nerfed too.

It doesn't matter how long it took to set up the materials for the build.  The amount of work required during play is irrelevant because the outcome of the play, that of constantly wiping enemies for the 3 other players, is all the is considered.  As with other frames, it didn't matter if you were a "lazy" player or a really "engaged" player, it was the result that mattered.

So to avoid breaking their own rules, they should shut trinity down.

[(PSN)BOSS_TPH76]

6 minutes ago, robbybe01234 said:

If ember was nerfed for the reason that players didn't get to engage with enemies then, on principle, this trinity build has to be nerfed too.

The problem is that neither Ember's or Banshee's nerf actually ended up doing that. 

Ember still nukes entire maps and Banshee still does quite the same what she always did...arguably even better. Especially given the fact that that is the build where I sit in the center of the map during Onslaught to round 6. 

6 minutes ago, robbybe01234 said:

It doesn't matter how long it took to set up the materials for the build.  The amount of work required during play is irrelevant because the outcome of the play, that of constantly wiping enemies for the 3 other players, is all the is considered.  As with other frames, it didn't matter if you were a "lazy" player or a really "engaged" player, it was the result that mattered.

Again....neither the ember nor the Banshee nerf/reworks actually did that. They still are extremely effective in doing what they always did. 

6 minutes ago, robbybe01234 said:

So to avoid breaking their own rules, they should shut trinity down.

See above. 

[Lucavee]

13 minutes ago, (PS4)BOSS_TPH76 said:

I didn't say it requires a lot of skill but it requires more skill in the form of timing and more actions. And keeping up your energy meter. 

Aim? Lol. 

Literally me on every single mission: "holds down fire button and runs through the level". Still gets in top 50% rank of the squad. 

Also me: "Uses any AOE weapon and shoots semi randomly in the general facinity of enemies". Still gets in top 50% rank of the squad. 

Also me: "Runs past all the enemies. Kills one target or destroys object runs to exit". Zero kills. Less than 2% damage taken. Mission over in under 3 minutes. 

Don't talk about skill as if it matters or is really a thing in this game. 

The problem isn't the builds. It is the awful enemy scaling. 90% of the game is trivial after a certain point. And by the time skill actually starts becoming a thing....builds like a link-Trinity are detrimental to the team composition and the wrong choice for the mission. 

You are the one claiming other builds require skill. And I agree there are some builds that actually do require a bit of skill to master but this game doesn't require any.

The idea that "aiming" is "skill" in this game is hilarious. Just vaguely hoover the giant ass recticule on any body part and 99 out of 100 times you will completely vaporize the enemy. Like I said...a 2 yo can do it and perform well.

The only issues I ever had with this game was when I didn't yet know how to deal with certain bosses and their mechanics. And I ran through half the game without any mods or even upgraded mods because I thought they were bothersome and didn't really want to spend the time figuring the mod system out.

But equally....I also often encounter enemies that just either run at me with 0 regard or just stand there while I hit them repeatedly with, for example, a level 0 ungilded zaw. 

But if you think this game poses any real challenge then I suggest you stay away from the DS franchise or even Save the World. 

What is this timing you speak of? Does aviator triggers after certain time in midair? AFAIK it triggers the moment your feet is off the ground, which makes this "timing" non existent as long as you press the correct button in the sequence. Do that and you can clear the room w/o even looking at the enemy.

Never have I said aiming was hard or a high skill move. Im just of the opinion that its more "skill" than pressing a series of buttons in a sequence. At least with aiming you have some sort of decision making (which 1 to shoot first), as opposed to mindless button pressing.

You do realize AOE weapons are not mandatory and you can do without.. especially if using one is boring for you.

Agreed on skill doesnt really matter, but im not the one who brought it up. Im just disagreeing with Link Trin requiring any form of skill, as it is as simple as typing on your keyboard. Instead of pressing keys for specific letter, you do so for an action sequence. No decision making apart from keeping your resources in check, which is standard for most gameplay.

No i dont think most builds in this game requires skill, and i dont think i have ever said that. They require knowledge but the rest is preference.

Idk where you get the idea about these challenge stuff, as i never even mention any. And if I was looking for challenge, i wouldnt try to find one in a pve game.

 

[(PSN)BOSS_TPH76]

22 minutes ago, Lucavee said:

What is this timing you speak of? Does aviator triggers after certain time in midair? AFAIK it triggers the moment your feet is off the ground, which makes this "timing" non existent as long as you press the correct button in the sequence. Do that and you can clear the room w/o even looking at the enemy.

Aviator only reduces damage taken. But yes...you said it correctly IF you press the buttons in sequence and do not mess up the timing between presses. If you jump too high you will not be in the blast radius and if you jump too low you better not have delay because you can and will blow yourself up. 

Quote

Never have I said aiming was hard or a high skill move. Im just of the opinion that its more "skill" than pressing a series of buttons in a sequence. At least with aiming you have some sort of decision making (which 1 to shoot first), as opposed to mindless button pressing.

And I disagree. There is no decision making. Push the trigger....hold it...things die when you move your cursor. The "decision" is optional and of the same equivalence as the timing on pushing the 3rd thumb stick. Or whether or not you will make that final jump or give up link immunity and expend your last energy to EV and wait for the pulse. 

Quote

You do realize AOE weapons are not mandatory and you can do without.. especially if using one is boring for you.

Nothing is mandatory. Except arguably in Onslaught. Which is why link Trinity became a thing and why that mode' s efficiency mechanic is awful. 

Quote

Agreed on skill doesnt really matter, but im not the one who brought it up. Im just disagreeing with Link Trin requiring any form of skill, as it is as simple as typing on your keyboard. Instead of pressing keys for specific letter, you do so for an action sequence. No decision making apart from keeping your resources in check, which is standard for most gameplay.

Again....the same with aiming. And I didn't bring up skill either. I replied to it. The whole discussion about something needing nerfs because "skill" is hilarious in a game that requires none of it and can for the most part be played with unmodded weapons or weapons with unupgraded mods. 

Quote

No i dont think most builds in this game requires skill, and i dont think i have ever said that. They require knowledge but the rest is preference.

Exactly. We agree there. Which is why the argument isn't that Trinity link requires skill but requires more skill than the majority of things in this game. The difference in wording is subtle but hugely important for the meaning of them. Although....it is fair enough to say I could have been more explicit.

So let's say that almost nothing in this game requires skill and that in the grander scheme of things link Trinity, while just as low skill as the rest of things, requires marginally more skill than many low skill things and marginally less skill than some other low skill things. That should about cover it. 

 

Quote

Idk where you get the idea about these challenge stuff, as i never even mention any. And if I was looking for challenge, i wouldnt try to find one in a pve game.

Well....you stepped in the middle of a discussion where that was implied and I gave an argument to that effect...so that is on you...and I didn't bother to check you were a different poster...and that is on me.  

Let's just say that in all the PvE games I would rate this game as one of the least challenging ones and that there are plenty of PvE games that require more of it. 

The problem is that this will be a vicious circle debate until something finally gets done about the enemy side of combat and the damage system itself. 

Edited May 26, 2018 by (PS4)BOSS_TPH76

[robbybe01234]

3 hours ago, (PS4)BOSS_TPH76 said:

The problem is that neither Ember's or Banshee's nerf actually ended up doing that. 

Ember still nukes entire maps and Banshee still does quite the same what she always did...arguably even better. Especially given the fact that that is the build where I sit in the center of the map during Onslaught to round 6. 

Again....neither the ember nor the Banshee nerf/reworks actually did that. They still are extremely effective in doing what they always did. 

See above. 

I hear you, they didn't accomplish what they intended.  But the reason they made the changes still stands.  Unless........they intended to make the target frames more tedious to use thereby reducing the number of players using them leading to reduced complaints?  So then if not outright nerfed they will add in a layer of b.s. and reduce trinity's QOL.  But they will still be able to do the castana thing. Haha

Edited May 26, 2018 by robbybe01234

[(PSN)Yes-Man-Kablaam]

The skill involved in TC is the same amount of skill as hitting rotations in mmos (Cause that's what it turns into really) like it's not a lot frankly.

[rune_me]

6 hours ago, Lucavee said:

I'm sorry... what? Since when does pressing some buttons in specific order a skill? Link, fire at feet x2-x3, jump, alt fire. Repeat as needed. Wheres the skill in that? You dont even need to move or aim. At least with "running around and pressing or holding a button" you have to aim, which involves in spotting the enemy in the middle of high speed movement. 

Claiming Link-Trin requires skill... i got a feeling you're playing the wrong game mate. Might wanna try guitar hero.

To be fair, guitar hero requires more skill than anything in this game. Warframe is not a skill-based game. Like all looters, gear and a good build is what gets the job done, not skills.

[(XBOX)BULLS 0N PAR4DE]

On 2018-05-25 at 8:28 AM, Trichouette said:

Did it ever occur to you that players want this removed because it prevents anyone to play as long as a trinity player is doing this ?

You come to warframe to have fun killing stuff and there is that one player that kill enemies so fast you can't even see them getting out of their spawn.

Um i get your pain I do but there is a thing called recruiting which will remove this problem 100% of the time. You can also just leave. It is the risk we all take when we go into a group blind.

 Sadly I'm a trinity main and have been for a long time. Every time she gets wacked all DE does is makes it eaiser to for people to use her. I remember a time when it actually took skill to run a good trinity.

[Trichouette]

il y a 17 minutes, (XB1)BULLS 0N PAR4DE a dit :

Um i get your pain I do but there is a thing called recruiting which will remove this problem 100% of the time. You can also just leave. It is the risk we all take when we go into a group blind. 

I know and I'm usually the first one to tell people "recruit instead of playing pub" when they complain about limbo, but it's still an issue DE will eventually take care of.

il y a 17 minutes, (XB1)BULLS 0N PAR4DE a dit :

Sadly I'm a trinity main and have been for a long time. Every time she gets wacked all DE does is makes it eaiser to for people to use her. I remember a time when it actually took skill to run a good trinity.

Please don't tell me it takes skill to press 2 on a target and then glaive yourself to 2hp to bless...

Edited May 26, 2018 by Trichouette

[Obviousclone]

I had one built

no riven

trinity prime (and normal trinity) was already forma'd a bunch so it was easy to build

didn't even bother forma'ing perfectly the sancti castanas- I believe one of the mods is still an ammo mutation because I'm too lazy to switch off my smeeta to carrier.

 

It very much trivializes all of the index and sanctuary onslaught. You can easily do a run of high risk, easily go to zone 8 on your own.

Don't know why people are saying it's hard to play. left clicking the ground twice, pressing space then your scroll wheel is not "challenge". Challenge would be you finding, aiming and blowing up a large crowd of enemies while they have line of sight of you (and are actively firing at you) and doing so without blowing yourself up while you are surrounded by even more enemies. Energy is not a concern. Everyone and their grandmothers has zenurik dash. Link has a duration so you're doing it more than once.

 

Is it the best build at doing onslaught? Honestly, it could be, depends on how much you spam. That being said, things like Volt just pressing 4 and saryn in general already kind of are up there when it comes to EZ zone 8s on elite. From my own testing I was able to functionally KS and get top damage with volts and saryns in my squad. But that doesn't matter. What matters is DE's "endgame" gets beaten by standing in the middle of the room, closing your eyes and jumping on some lightning.

The one concern I have is, because it is not dependent on line of sight or interaction with your enemy (beyond picking up ammo), if it does become popular (which may be tricky, trinity p is expensive now and trinity is locked behind ambulas, and sancti castanas are an MR 8) it could easily become the new RQ banshee/WOF ember cancer for new players. But from what I've seen, if you're advanced enough to have built this, you aren't going to be that guy, the one who goes into 5k credit alert defence missions doing that like the ember and banshee players did.

[(XBOX)ThermalStone]

It's pointless to argue whether something in Warframe takes "skill" or not.  Warframe isn't really a game of skill, at least in the sense that aiming or movement or precise button pressing is important.  Skill in Warframe comes from knowledge of game mechanics and picking the right loadout for the task at hand.  What happens in game should just be an execution of the plan.  

[(XBOX)BULLS 0N PAR4DE]

14 minutes ago, (XB1)ThermalStone said:

It's pointless to argue whether something in Warframe takes "skill" or not.  Warframe isn't really a game of skill, at least in the sense that aiming or movement or precise button pressing is important.  Skill in Warframe comes from knowledge of game mechanics and picking the right loadout for the task at hand.  What happens in game should just be an execution of the plan.  

Finally someone here has the same view. Oh and just a little fun poke. It is not a PC player that has this idea. LOL

[rune_me]

12 minutes ago, (XB1)BULLS 0N PAR4DE said:

Finally someone here has the same view. Oh and just a little fun poke. It is not a PC player that has this idea. LOL

Except I'm a PC player and offered the exact same view just before your previous post.

[aligatorno]

36 minutes ago, (XB1)ThermalStone said:

It's pointless to argue whether something in Warframe takes "skill" or not.  Warframe isn't really a game of skill, at least in the sense that aiming or movement or precise button pressing is important.  Skill in Warframe comes from knowledge of game mechanics and picking the right loadout for the task at hand.  What happens in game should just be an execution of the plan.  

Indeed. Few things actually require skill in this game,it's more about knowledge than anything else.

The problem regarding this is more about effort vs return, as it is right now, it's not any different than what a Molt Saryn, Quake Banshee or WoF Ember used to be. While the way to achieve this was impressive from a modding point of view, the way it is performed promotes brain dead gameplay and exactly what DE are trying to get rid of from the game since the return is way, way more abundant than what effort is put in.