Wanna talk about Trinity + Castanas?

[Androndas]

On 2018-05-29 at 7:54 AM, Trekiros said:

Cause you know... It's fun.

It's not fun... but it IS effective.

[GinKenshin]

1 minute ago, Androndas said:

It's not fun... but it IS effective.

and that's why it's getting removed ;D

[peterc3]

I don't think Trinity comes out of a rework with anything close to what she has now.

This 1 seems very OP for a 1st power, but it still seems like it would be heavily underused vs the 4, something you noted about the current Trinity setup.

[Leqesai]

Trinity was my first non starter frame. I've always liked her kit.

Having said that I think you make some valid points.

 

Well of life is the underdog for sure

Link nuking needs to go away

Energy vampire absolutely sucks. Playing trinity is annoying because people constantly beg you to vamp for them even if you don't build for it.

 

 

[SneakyErvin]

I think they should slap her #1 and #2 together and make the new skill work similar to Saryn's spores.

Give it a 1% life leech along with a set number like 2 energy/hit or something.

[Shiichibukai]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Leqesai:

Trinity was my first non starter frame. I've always liked her kit.

Having said that I think you make some valid points.

 

Well of life is the underdog for sure

Link nuking needs to go away

Energy vampire absolutely sucks. Playing trinity is annoying because people constantly beg you to vamp for them even if you don't build for it.

 

 

Thats literally all shes used for. An energy/bless hoe. And having one is pretty much game breaking. If they ever change EV it'll change the games flow alot.

[Sabreracer]

Sad thing is that Well of Life and Energy Vampire once synergised making them very powerful when used together.

Cast 1 to inflate their health then cast EV after three pulses which is now based off their current health and kills them.

Sadly this was "fixed" though it was [DE]Glen that brought it to general knowledge, it stood for a long time.

[DarthBane1]

Do you remember the previous change they did to energy vampire? I liked it bust most people HATED it. 

 

They did it LOS. Nice thing? SUPER far range. (Would have been great for plains as it has no range limit)

Bad thing? Not through walls. 

[ZodiacShinryu]

24 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Playing trinity is annoying because people constantly beg you to vamp for them even if you don't build for it.

Well Trinity should probably be playing with at least some range just for Link's sake. Otherwise Trinity can literally not NOT have an EV moderately effective build the way it currently works (because no one [in the right mind] is not going to have at least the minimum strength for Blessing). Cast EV then kill the target is the same as Neg duration EV; all neg duration does is remove the need to kill it. Tell them if they want energy they can do the work themselves. Assuming you aren't building for meta EV Trinity doesn't need over 150% power strength unless you are using Abating Link to which she doesn't need over 224% (to strip all armor). Get range and duration where you want then put as much into strength depending on how you feel where your efficiency is (which Trinity doesn't have to work as much about).

Honestly, it is a little paradoxical. Negative stats shouldn't make skills better overall. Nova MP sorta gets a pass because the extremes provide two different experiences entirely where both can be detriments based on what you want. EV (and old old Saryn Miasma off the top of my head) on the other hand only benefit from less duration while adding more duration made the skill less wieldy. Duration in these cases should work the reverse way they do currently OR more duration added more ticks. That being said, it would be an overall buff to Trinity that could now have all her skills modded together easily and be even more powerful yet. But really the only difference now is that you have to put more a little effort into making EV work with positive duration for the same outcome.

---

1 hour ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

(NEW) 2^nd - Energy Barrier

By giving Trinity a more defensive aspect while also keeping her energy regeneration capabilities as strong as ever, we have an ability who's uses go to even greater heights! Energy Vampire really only has a single function, quick energy restores. It doesn't really feel versatile enough on it's own. With a more defense oriented ability, Trinity has an alternative method of protecting herself in the heat of battle while also supporting her allies from the outside.

• Trinity no longer uses an enemy as an energy source
• Energy Barrier can be cast in the air
•  Trinity now holds out her hand, creating a small radial barrier (7 meters, not effected by range) (toggled ability, costs 30 energy to cast and 1.5 additional energy to maintain)
  • while in this mode, weapon usage is locked, movement speed is reduced by 25%
  • all enemy projectiles that hit Trinity's barrier will be stored as an energy pulse (5% "energysteal")
    • recasting will release that energy, splitting it between all allies within range (25 meters)
    • allies within the barrier at the time will have their shields fully restored
    • for each ally within the barrier, damage reduction will be reduced by 15% (99% with no allies inside)
    • damage inflicted onto the barrier will be split between all people inside 

This is a complete ability overhaul, but boy does it give Trinity a bit more of an identity! It also stays true to what Energy Vampire is all about and has both benefits and drawbacks, something that Energy Vampire didn't really have too much of.

Can I assume since it is a toggle that Trinity also can't benefit from it herself (the energy pulses that is)? What is energy steal? Is it basically a rage functionality for any incoming damage? Is it calculated before mitigations? Honestly I find a lot wrong with this. The energy recovery scales with enemy level basically which encourages allies to stand on you (7m is super tiny) in the low levels and a detriment function as the enemy gets stronger. Requiring she need to be hit to even get use out of it also seems a problem (one of the things I begrudge on Chroma) because the most prevalent strategies in the game are the exact opposite which may just invalidate this ability altogether. The worst part about it is it basically removes most agency from the player. The lack of being able to do nothing but use your other powers (which I am just going to assume you can) is one of the reasons why Spectral Scream is terrible for what it is. Also based on whether she benefits from energy recover and how it is calculated determines whether it discourages her from even using her other abilities while it is active (much like Chroma's power problems). I can see a lot of scenarios where she activates it and goes AFK while allies can position themselves to exploit energy recover. Personally I don't see a lot of the benefits over the current EV.

---

Personally, I am still fond of a "stance/posture/mode" mechanic to Link. Now with Khora I am sure the tech is there. Link is still a duration based ability but you switch the mode between current Vengeance Link (attaches to enemies) or Saint Link (attaches to allies). For right now, I think DE should fix damage resist mod calculations and see where Link lies from there as far as current Link goes.

The Saint link can provide some benefits like sharing lifesteal and health recovery between all the linked members, add together all the armor/DR (maybe even share/split damage), and/or maybe share some small portion of other stats and/or buff. DE can touch up Well of Life (definitely remove the cap on lifesteal) still but in this fashion Trinity can just switch to Linking with allies and heal everyone under the same mechanics herself.

Then perhaps DE can tone down the healing on Blessing (though it can still be present) and add other buff bonuses along side the DR: (just listing things) Stat boosts like max Health/Shields boosts, increased shield recharge, decreased shield delay, increased weapon reload speed, increased move speed, max energy boost, damage boosts, proc immunity, etc. The bonuses on top of DR could be triggered by other conditions like damaged taken/mitigated, damage dealt, healing amounts, etc. Perhaps it resets every Blessing cast and you can build up the bonuses you want by clearing those conditions as you need.

[m0b1us1]

Nah. Nuke Trin is fine. She is crazy strong in 1 specific game mode that is just an over glorified survival mission that uses "efficiency" instead of "life support" that DE is trying to pass off as "challenging and fun".

To be honest, I love having a nuke trin on my EOS team. Then I can just relax and enjoy huge amounts of mostly free focus. She also makes defense missions go by so much quicker.

It seems the only people who think nuke Trin is a problem are those that don't realize just how grindy the game is yet. Don't worry, you guys will find out in time and when it does you will LOVE nuke trin and other huge aoe clearing frames. Once you hit a certain point, survival missions really aren't that interesting. At least kuva survival rewards you for not using life support pods.

Yeah she is a support frame, the only other true support frame is Harrow and he can get crazy crits. Some could say Oberon, but even he can SHRED juggernauts with his 1. The argument of "oh support shouldn't be able to do this!" is simply silly. This isn't a MOBA nor should it be treated as such. Without raids, there really isn't a case where you heavily rely on a trinity, or any specific frame for that matter. You don't NEED Trin, you don't NEED any frame! You can do every single piece of content in the game with any frame. Frames should NEVER be nerfed/changed just because of 1 boring game mode *Cough* Chroma/Saryn *cough*. Anyone semi-decent at the game can get to zone 8 solo with just a tanky frame and a good melee. Keep nuke Trin and if you don't like it, then grow up. If you get into EOS and see a nuke trin and you don't like it, just leave! These complaints are even sillier than people complaining about Limbo. Limbo can extend how long it takes for you to progress, Trin can only speed it up.

[EinheriarJudith]

55 minutes ago, m0b1us1 said:

Nah. Nuke Trin is fine. She is crazy strong in 1 specific game mode that is just an over glorified survival mission that uses "efficiency" instead of "life support" that DE is trying to pass off as "challenging and fun".

To be honest, I love having a nuke trin on my EOS team. Then I can just relax and enjoy huge amounts of mostly free focus. She also makes defense missions go by so much quicker.

It seems the only people who think nuke Trin is a problem are those that don't realize just how grindy the game is yet. Don't worry, you guys will find out in time and when it does you will LOVE nuke trin and other huge aoe clearing frames. Once you hit a certain point, survival missions really aren't that interesting. At least kuva survival rewards you for not using life support pods.

Yeah she is a support frame, the only other true support frame is Harrow and he can get crazy crits. Some could say Oberon, but even he can SHRED juggernauts with his 1. The argument of "oh support shouldn't be able to do this!" is simply silly. This isn't a MOBA nor should it be treated as such. Without raids, there really isn't a case where you heavily rely on a trinity, or any specific frame for that matter. You don't NEED Trin, you don't NEED any frame! You can do every single piece of content in the game with any frame. Frames should NEVER be nerfed/changed just because of 1 boring game mode *Cough* Chroma/Saryn *cough*. Anyone semi-decent at the game can get to zone 8 solo with just a tanky frame and a good melee. Keep nuke Trin and if you don't like it, then grow up. If you get into EOS and see a nuke trin and you don't like it, just leave! These complaints are even sillier than people complaining about Limbo. Limbo can extend how long it takes for you to progress, Trin can only speed it up.

wow.... just wow..... you do realize DE wants people to interact with their game right? you also realize that by saying "Then I can just relax and enjoy huge amounts of mostly free focus" that this isnt what DE wants. they dont want people to enter a mission and just stand there and mostly do nothing.

"It seems the only people who think nuke Trin is a problem are those that don't realize just how grindy the game is yet"

what an asinine generalization you've made. how people view whats grindy is different between each person. some dont view it as grind but as playing the game.

if you didnt know, harrow is a vanguard. he is a frontline protector, oberon has always and will always be Damage/support. trinity on the other hand is a full support frame the only damage she actually does (in her powers) is energy vampire. link is damage redirection link does no damage. i think you might first try to learn some of the differences about these 3 frames before telling people they need to grow up for having a valid complaint.

Edit: changed Energy vamp is the only one that deals damage. so its still only one power that deals a minimal amount of damage.

 

Edited June 4, 2018 by EinheriarJudith

[Leqesai]

1 hour ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

Well Trinity should probably be playing with at least some range just for Link's sake. Otherwise Trinity can literally not NOT have an EV moderately effective build the way it currently works (because no one [in the right mind] is not going to have at least the minimum strength for Blessing). Cast EV then kill the target is the same as Neg duration EV; all neg duration does is remove the need to kill it. Tell them if they want energy they can do the work themselves. Assuming you aren't building for meta EV Trinity doesn't need over 150% power strength unless you are using Abating Link to which she doesn't need over 224% (to strip all armor). Get range and duration where you want then put as much into strength depending on how you feel where your efficiency is (which Trinity doesn't have to work as much about).

Honestly, it is a little paradoxical. Negative stats shouldn't make skills better overall. Nova MP sorta gets a pass because the extremes provide two different experiences entirely where both can be detriments based on what you want. EV (and old old Saryn Miasma off the top of my head) on the other hand only benefit from less duration while adding more duration made the skill less wieldy. Duration in these cases should work the reverse way they do currently OR more duration added more ticks. That being said, it would be an overall buff to Trinity that could now have all her skills modded together easily and be even more powerful yet. But really the only difference now is that you have to put more a little effort into making EV work with positive duration for the same outcome.

---

Can I assume since it is a toggle that Trinity also can't benefit from it herself (the energy pulses that is)? What is energy steal? Is it basically a rage functionality for any incoming damage? Is it calculated before mitigations? Honestly I find a lot wrong with this. The energy recovery scales with enemy level basically which encourages allies to stand on you (7m is super tiny) in the low levels and a detriment function as the enemy gets stronger. Requiring she need to be hit to even get use out of it also seems a problem (one of the things I begrudge on Chroma) because the most prevalent strategies in the game are the exact opposite which may just invalidate this ability altogether. The worst part about it is it basically removes most agency from the player. The lack of being able to do nothing but use your other powers (which I am just going to assume you can) is one of the reasons why Spectral Scream is terrible for what it is. Also based on whether she benefits from energy recover and how it is calculated determines whether it discourages her from even using her other abilities while it is active (much like Chroma's power problems). I can see a lot of scenarios where she activates it and goes AFK while allies can position themselves to exploit energy recover. Personally I don't see a lot of the benefits over the current EV.

---

Personally, I am still fond of a "stance/posture/mode" mechanic to Link. Now with Khora I am sure the tech is there. Link is still a duration based ability but you switch the mode between current Vengeance Link (attaches to enemies) or Saint Link (attaches to allies). For right now, I think DE should fix damage resist mod calculations and see where Link lies from there as far as current Link goes.

The Saint link can provide some benefits like sharing lifesteal and health recovery between all the linked members, add together all the armor/DR (maybe even share/split damage), and/or maybe share some small portion of other stats and/or buff. DE can touch up Well of Life (definitely remove the cap on lifesteal) still but in this fashion Trinity can just switch to Linking with allies and heal everyone under the same mechanics herself.

Then perhaps DE can tone down the healing on Blessing (though it can still be present) and add other buff bonuses along side the DR: (just listing things) Stat boosts like max Health/Shields boosts, increased shield recharge, decreased shield delay, increased weapon reload speed, increased move speed, max energy boost, damage boosts, proc immunity, etc. The bonuses on top of DR could be triggered by other conditions like damaged taken/mitigated, damage dealt, healing amounts, etc. Perhaps it resets every Blessing cast and you can build up the bonuses you want by clearing those conditions as you need.

I will have to try a little extra range for link. I think I generally run with minimal link and go full melee with trin. 

[[DE]Rebecca]

On 2018-05-29 at 7:59 AM, sixmille said:

Self damage cannot be channeled through link. First it gets rid of the problem forever, then it's consistent with the rest of the game. Rhino and harrow can't use self damage to buff their abilities so the fact that trinity can do that is very inconsistent. There's no need to nerf the castanas either, the fact that it's cascading means it's killing more stuff.

We are going to change just that - no self-damage through Link. We are going to apply this rule to Trinity, Nidus, and Nekros for consistency. Trinity is a fantastic support Warframe and being top-tier DPS in addition to that role does not suit her. Expect this change this week on PC!

[Kracken]

Just now, [DE]Rebecca said:

We are going to change just that - no self-damage through Link. We are going to apply this rule to Trinity, Nidus, and Nekros for consistency. Trinity is a fantastic support Warframe and being top-tier DPS in addition to that role does not suit her. Expect this change this week on PC!

F.I.N.E.L.Y !

[-CM-NineFingers]

hace 9 minutos, [DE]Rebecca dijo:

We are going to change just that - no self-damage through Link. We are going to apply this rule to Trinity, Nidus, and Nekros for consistency. Trinity is a fantastic support Warframe and being top-tier DPS in addition to that role does not suit her. Expect this change this week on PC!

Thanks! It was a bit too much

[Voltage]

18 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We are going to change just that - no self-damage through Link. We are going to apply this rule to Trinity, Nidus, and Nekros for consistency. Trinity is a fantastic support Warframe and being top-tier DPS in addition to that role does not suit her. Expect this change this week on PC!

Trinity Link DPS has been around for 3 years now. I am confused as to why this is being completely killed instead of recalculating how damage reduction works between Diamond Skin and Aviator stacking additive to each other instead of multiplicative. That simple change will still allow players to nuke the map, but it would require more micromanaging between Bless, Link, EV, Quick Thinking, Arcane Energize/Zenurik, all while damaging yourself in some fashion.

After this change, people will just complain that Equinox is taking their kills in Onslaught or Hydron and then what? It happened to Mesa in 2015, it happened to Mag in 2015, it happened to Saryn in 2015, it happened to Limbo after his rework, it happened to Wukong, it happened to Banshee, it happened to Ember, and now it is happening to Trinity. It is sad that more and more gear suffers to slow down the pace of the game.

It looks like I will be putting my Link Trinity build right next to my Hybrid LoR build, my Tonkor, and my Synoid Simulor.

Edited June 4, 2018 by --Q--Voltage

[AuroraSonicBoom]

17 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We are going to change just that - no self-damage through Link. We are going to apply this rule to Trinity, Nidus, and Nekros for consistency. Trinity is a fantastic support Warframe and being top-tier DPS in addition to that role does not suit her. Expect this change this week on PC!

I might not like Onslaught as a game mode, but I can certainly appreciate what it's doing for the game's balance.

[(PSN)AotoSatou14]

Just as @--Q--Voltage says,changing how Aviator works can make the build useless which makes nerfing three warframes unnecessary.

[uxx0]

21 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We are going to change just that - no self-damage through Link. We are going to apply this rule to Trinity, Nidus, and Nekros for consistency. Trinity is a fantastic support Warframe and being top-tier DPS in addition to that role does not suit her. Expect this change this week on PC!

Fun [DE]tected. Y'all guys are the reason we can't have good things.

[EinheriarJudith]

13 minutes ago, --Q--Voltage said:

Trinity Link DPS has been around for 3 years now. I am confused as to why this is being completely killed instead of recalculating how damage reduction works between Diamond Skin and Aviator stacking additive to each other instead of multiplicative. That simple change will still allow players to nuke the map, but it would require more micromanaging between Bless, Link, EV, Quick Thinking, Arcane Energize/Zenurik, all while damaging yourself in some fashion.

After this change, people will just complain that Equinox is taking their kills in Onslaught or Hydron and then what? It happened to Mesa in 2015, it happened to Mag in 2015, it happened to Saryn in 2015, it happened to Limbo after his rework, it happened to Wukong, it happened to Banshee, it happened to Ember, and now it is happening to Trinity. It is sad that more and more gear suffers to slow down the pace of the game.

gear suffers to slow the game? no. trinity's theme will be uneffected by this change. in mesa's case peacemaker has more interaction rather than being brain dead press 1 button to kill everything in 50m, saryn's kit has become more interactive rather than use molt and just press spore on it. all of your examples are just those of things DE needed to fix so the game is more interactive and less <insert that phrase people use for clicker afk games>

Edited June 4, 2018 by EinheriarJudith

[-dicht.Seleszi-]

Self damage trin:

>exist for like 3 years

>get nerfed because of ESO

:GWrverifyRoDab:

 

[Jerawolfe]

I love my Suicide Trin.

aka My Masochistic Matriarch of Mending.

The Trin was mostly a non-combat energy ball for the team, outside of Eidolon hunting, until I discovered the castanas. Then I had so much fun just wreaking death and havoc through every enemy type.

I'm very sad to see this change made, but I understand the reasoning behind it.

I enjoyed the aspect of being able to mod Trinity out to be a damage dealing monster. She suddenly could scale and survive by outputting damage instead of outputting healing.

I always felt this was fitting for Trin, using her link. Now she's gonna go back on the shelf for many of my games.
It only counts for self damage though. 

Two of my favorite frames, Saryn and Trin, are going from my most played to my least played (I can't figure out a build that gets Saryn to scale properly yet)

Meanwhile two of my LEAST favorite frames, Oberon and Hydroid, have suddenly become a lot more fun.

But this change, both breaks my heart and breaks a lot of my playstyle.

This is the first time I've ever felt compelled to give my feedback on the forums (Usually I give my feedback by buying more platinum! :D)

 

Edited June 4, 2018 by Jerawolfe

[Bl4zko]

Equinox should be nerfed at some point aswell, looking at how all AoE damage frames have been hit lately (not trying to say that he deserves it). Anyways, as long as the game gets more interaction I'm fine with it.

Edited June 4, 2018 by Bl4zko

[uxx0]

3 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

gear suffers to slow the game? no. trinity's theme will be uneffected by this change. in mesa's case peacemaker has more interaction rather than being brain dead press 1 button to kill everything in 50m, saryn's kit has become more interactive rather than use molt and just press spore on it. all of your examples are just those of things DE needed to fix so the game is more interactive and less <insert that phrase people use for clicker afk games>

This is the raid way of going about things. Can't fix it? Just slash it.

Also, did you even read what he wrote?

15 minutes ago, --Q--Voltage said:

That simple change will still allow players to nuke the map, but it would require more micromanaging between Bless, Link, EV, Quick Thinking, Arcane Energize/Zenurik, all while damaging yourself in some fashion.

 

I'm interested to see the Trinity """rework""", but I'll still keep my expections low...

[Gaia]

*checks at ESO most used frames*

1. trinity, running top kills in most squads

hmm.. we should release some more updates before sacrifice releases..