Wanna talk about Trinity + Castanas?

[TheLexiConArtist]

7 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We are going to change just that - no self-damage through Link. We are going to apply this rule to Trinity, Nidus, and Nekros for consistency. Trinity is a fantastic support Warframe and being top-tier DPS in addition to that role does not suit her. Expect this change this week on PC!

One of the reasons the Trinity build works is that it benefits from the same additive resistances that enemies can - Shield base resistance to Radiation damage (25%), plus Diamond Skin (45%), plus Aviator (40%) = >100% damage reduction. Please consider stopping resistance buffs from being additive without cap instead, as it will prevent the Trinity Castanas functionality and also stop enemies from being completely immune to weapons sometimes.

This happens in three main ways:

• Corpus Sorties - Shield Ospreys provide additive, stacking resistances to elemental damage in Sorties, easily reducing pure-elemental weapon damage to 0.
• Enhancement Sortie conditions - Additive resistances to all elemental or physical damage type, combined with base resistances, can result in full immunity in some cases.
• Eximus Aura Stacking - Elemental Eximi provide resistances to their element and its derived combinations. This also can stack to full immunity (easily checked in Simulacrum!)

 

Don't just delete player tactics while leaving the unfair disadvantages untouched.

[Koto]

can we nerf chroma while we're at it. chroma can still one shot eidolons, so i cant savor this awesome fight with strobelights everywhere. allowing players to self dmg and charge vex armor through self dmg is not what i conceive as fun. boy oh boy i love plains of eidolon. i wish de would nerf all the meta frames in existence so i can sit in my ship or dojo playing legos all day. 

Edited June 5, 2018 by Koto.

[BulletsforTeeth]

On 2018-05-29 at 7:59 AM, sixmille said:

Self damage cannot be channeled through link. First it gets rid of the problem forever, then it's consistent with the rest of the game. Rhino and harrow can't use self damage to buff their abilities so the fact that trinity can do that is very inconsistent. There's no need to nerf the castanas either, the fact that it's cascading means it's killing more stuff.

This is EXACTLY what should have been done with blessing back when they released the raids. Didn't happen then, won't happen now.

Steve like his nerf-hammer too much, so they'll just nerf her into the ground. Again.

[ZodiacShinryu]

11 minutes ago, Koto. said:

can we nerf chroma while we're at it. chroma can still one shot eidolons

I can't tell how much of your post is sarcasm but it is misleading. Of the meta frames for eidolons Rhino, Volt, and Octavia can all one-shot eidolons. At this point we should just remove all buff frames.

[Koto]

31 minutes ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

I can't tell how much of your post is sarcasm but it is misleading. Of the meta frames for eidolons Rhino, Volt, and Octavia can all one-shot eidolons. At this point we should just remove all buff frames.

ur right. we should nerf those frames too.
another really cool (btw hahaa) idea ive had is: the amount of fish u catch should scale ur fishing spear dmg. i wanna throw my spear at the eidolon with my fishing spear to see what happens after an entire night of long hard fishing. i wanna widdle down the eidolon until my eyes bleed, but i cant do that when meta frames are one shotting the eidolon no problem. 

[_fayth]

9 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We are going to change just that - no self-damage through Link. We are going to apply this rule to Trinity, Nidus, and Nekros for consistency. Trinity is a fantastic support Warframe and being top-tier DPS in addition to that role does not suit her. Expect this change this week on PC!

Well don't forget to apply that logic to Chroma too with that; can't have a single frame abusing self damage if none of the others can;

 

Annoyingly everything i use keeps getting nerf'ed to uselessness;

Edited June 5, 2018 by _fayth

[Immune]

Let's go further then and just remove all self damage from the game? Tonkor, ogris, castanas, and so on, just make those weapons safe 

[MrToxic2703]

9 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We are going to change just that - no self-damage through Link. We are going to apply this rule to Trinity, Nidus, and Nekros for consistency. Trinity is a fantastic support Warframe and being top-tier DPS in addition to that role does not suit her. Expect this change this week on PC!

let me remind you one thing. CHROMA EXIST. self damage never be a problem till Trin build exist. why do you bother to nerf her and didnt even mention about chroma???

[MunsuLight]

Il y a 5 heures, Xzorn a dit :

That silly Castana trick is just another symptom of the problem.

We're too powerful to be fighting the same level enemies we've been fighting 4+ years.

You're gunna change a tactic that gets out scaled and keep the Trinity + Mag one-shot lvl 9,999 EV spam?

Okay.

Might want to fix Blessing stacking with other Blessings. 3 Trinity + Gara can get 99.98% Damage Reduction using an Ancient Healer. Of course they're not going to have the damage output to push much past lvl 500 but scaling performance doesn't seem to matter.

Shhhh .. We dont want them to nerf DR frame ... or the Ancient Healer Specter  ..

[RadYogh]

10 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We are going to change just that - no self-damage through Link. We are going to apply this rule to Trinity, Nidus, and Nekros for consistency. Trinity is a fantastic support Warframe and being top-tier DPS in addition to that role does not suit her. Expect this change this week on PC!

The only realy useful trinity build is EV (except castanas). And that is just a waste of a frame. It's much better to just use another buffer or killer frame and energy efficient builds. And you nerfed everything that required a lot of mana to kill things fast (excalibur for example).

Without self-damage transfer link is good only as self knockdown/stagger resistance. And that isn't very useful.

First skill is completely useless (except maybe some ways to abuse it?). Ultie heals instantly and gives damage reduction.

Bless trinity is useless. Because where 75% damage reduction works - you don't realy need trinity. And Gara's 90% damage reduction works a lot better though it has a very limited use as well.

And trinity castanas build is fun! It kills things and it kills them fast. I don't get what's wrong with people who doesn't like that? What's bad in being effecient? And it's not that overpowered... it does only radiation damage (and some mobs are immune to it and many are resistant) and there isn't that much damage. It wouldn't realy work well with any high-level mob. Equinox or Mag with decent guns would be much better.

There must be more Nuke-builds.

[RadYogh]

On 2018-06-03 at 3:48 PM, Androndas said:

It's not fun... but it IS effective.

It's both fun and effective.

[Kinjeto]

11 hours ago, --Q--Voltage said:

Trinity Link DPS has been around for 3 years now. I am confused as to why this is being completely killed instead of recalculating how damage reduction works between Diamond Skin and Aviator stacking additive to each other instead of multiplicative. That simple change will still allow players to nuke the map, but it would require more micromanaging between Bless, Link, EV, Quick Thinking, Arcane Energize/Zenurik, all while damaging yourself in some fashion.

After this change, people will just complain that Equinox is taking their kills in Onslaught or Hydron and then what? It happened to Mesa in 2015, it happened to Mag in 2015, it happened to Saryn in 2015, it happened to Limbo after his rework, it happened to Wukong, it happened to Banshee, it happened to Ember, and now it is happening to Trinity. It is sad that more and more gear suffers to slow down the pace of the game.

It looks like I will be putting my Link Trinity build right next to my Hybrid LoR build, my Tonkor, and my Synoid Simulor.

With all this in mind I'd also like Rebecca's comment and the development team's comment on self damage with Chroma as well. Where does Steve, Scott and possibly now Pablo stand with self damage as well as Peaceful Provocation on Equinox with the shield?

It appears that you've kept self damage in the game as a mechanic to use to some degree and it could possibly be used as a gameplay mechanic in future interations of warframes/frame abilities? Where does the development team stand with this? Obviously the castana rivens have been selling as well to players so it's a mechanic? It seems that there is a great variety of agency with the way frames are played. Why isn't this agency supported/endorsed and why does it continue to be dialed back a great deal versus just being tweaked only slightly. @[DE]Rebecca

Edited June 5, 2018 by Kinjeto

[CrazyValkyr]

11 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We are going to change just that - no self-damage through Link. We are going to apply this rule to Trinity, Nidus, and Nekros for consistency. Trinity is a fantastic support Warframe and being top-tier DPS in addition to that role does not suit her. Expect this change this week on PC!

This is not as much a complaint about Nuke Trin specifically but - what does bug me, is the latest trend of you guys removing builds, that are out-of-the-box thinking / niche and going against the standards.

Trin has been less fun since her last nerf for me - I personally used to enjoy playing Melee-Bless/Link Trin before the nerf of range on blessing - and here we go again, Trin getting the axe on how she can be played yet again...

Alas, I digress - Some people find fun in finding their own way of playing/niche & the whole 'meta' is just not appealing to us. Warframe always had this 'pick your own gamestyle & have fun'. Why is this changing lately so much? Not a happy camper.

[Kinjeto]

12 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We are going to change just that - no self-damage through Link. We are going to apply this rule to Trinity, Nidus, and Nekros for consistency. Trinity is a fantastic support Warframe and being top-tier DPS in addition to that role does not suit her. Expect this change this week on PC!

So when are you going to get good and allow the design and flow with emergent gameplay? It's a very fair question.
Could we also please have a comment on this topic as well?

Not so much scaling rewards. But this person who is supposedly a content creator is hawking toxicity of endurance runs. When emergent gameplay is allowing people the freedom to play the way, they want, if they've discovered something that works for them. If this is the official narrative that's being proported by high ranking DE partners that endurance running is supposedly not appreciated? Has yet that is where things start to get challenging with the higher level amount on enemies.

What about the self damage with Peaceful Provocation? What about the self damage to buff up Chroma? Also what about scaling damage/emergent gameplay systems for Endurance runs? These are high risk reward mechanics when self damaging. When Trin gets self damage this is also a high risk reward play.

Obviously a Riven system or potentially a gameplay system should encourage lots of different player agency and forms of playstyles. Also if a system has scaling wouldn't that further endorse different forms of playstyles and scaling where in.

@[DE]Scott talks about bite-sized content has yet there are plenty of missions like Capture, Exterminate, Spy, Rescue missions which take only a short amount of time. It appears that [DE]Pablo also has a lot of stake in re-working or rather changing/nerfing various player agencies. Could you please comment on scaling and endurance runs and the damage there-in with game modes such as Survival, Excavation, Defense and Interception. [DE]Pablo has also changed the user interface/UI to endorse leaderboards and leaderboard feedback to the userbase so this is implied that you achieved that leaderboard position for that week. Would you care to comment on this as well?

With the introduction of Eidolons and amps and the move to put arcanes on a giant boss fight away from game modes that encourage different playstyles. It appears that this has also put in requirements for players to have those amps and thus created a very limited scope in the design of how fights play out in the supposed Eidolon game mode. It also appears to have limited the usage of Warframes. It may even have put a divide between people who have amps and don't have the required gear to fight these bosses.

Endurance runs with the agency of different gameplay styles and various scaling elements in Warframe. Highlight that there are a variety of different ways to play Warframes in higher levels of gameplay. On top of this it appears that there has been some experimentation in design over the years in various alternative reward methodology:

1. Giving to the player small amounts of Kuva + rewards from the rotations in Taveuni on the Kuva Fortress.
2. Giving to the player RADDED relics in Elite Onslaught mode (This appears to be a sidegrade to that game mode in a form of scaling rewards.)
3. Giving to the player various different levels of relics in Fissure/Void mode when people use relics in this mode
4. Spy missions having successfully completed a vault with all the data extracted. partcipating players/the squyad get an extra relic out of that mission.
(Spy doesn't necessarily scale, however it shows that in completing the vault successfully the user is rewarded thusly.)

Are scaling rewards limited to certain game modes?

There have also been critical multipliers on numerous frames abilities, there are certain synergies mentioned here in this post between frames.
CC is a forma of scaling, Radiation procs has a a form of scaling, status and crits have scaling as a system.

The gameplay narrative being told me as a player is that these are small experiments in wanting players to succeed in accomplishing game/gameplay modes.
That there is also scaling in these systems and that the difficulty according to player health and damage ramps up.

Could we possibly get a comment on this?
@[DE]Rebecca

Edited June 5, 2018 by Kinjeto
Hi Rob ;)

[Starcanum]

I know it's likely getting "fixed" soon, and I'm sure you've seen a lot of threads with different suggestions on how to do it. At this point, all I've got is hope. Hope that instead of band-aiding the next FotM pick, you will get to the core of the problem and fix the interaction between the damage reduction and the shields. Make its math work for you, not against you. Trinity itself is not the problem, and the self-damage transfer is a very interesting and fun mechanic that you don't have to get rid of in order to fix something "problematic".

[Klavinmour]

8 minutes ago, Starcanum said:

I know it's likely getting "fixed" soon, and I'm sure you've seen a lot of threads with different suggestions on how to do it. At this point, all I've got is hope. Hope that instead of band-aiding the next FotM pick, you will get to the core of the problem and fix the interaction between the damage reduction and the shields. Make its math work for you, not against you. Trinity itself is not the problem, and the self-damage transfer is a very interesting and fun mechanic that you don't have to get rid of in order to fix something "problematic".

They've already announced that Trinity's Link is going to no longer work with Self Damage, the patch coming this week, the same will be for Nidus and another Warframe that I can't remember who.

[KIREEK]

Finnaly the players that were somehow brought to the average to high end of the efficiency scale thanks to that ability will now go where they are supposed to be on the scale.

I understand that it may fustrate some players, but you see efficiency isn't achieved with 1 mod, 1 weapon or 1 tactic, it is instead multiple things at once, players using trinity often shared this with other players and so players that had no reason to be efficienct were somehow seeing a glimse of what happens when you kill lot's of enemies, if the player is a 1 trick pony then it's obvious the nerf would happen, it is predictable because you are not supposed to be killing 5x more enemies than before, if you kill 20 enemies per mission then why all of a sudden are you achieving 100 kills per mission, is it effort or is it a trick?

Now "trinity + castanas" players will be exactly where they should be.

[Starcanum]

4 minutes ago, Klavinmour said:

They've already announced that Trinity's Link is going to no longer work with Self Damage, the patch coming this week, the same will be for Nidus and another Warframe that I can't remember who.

Oh alright, should've expected that, thanks for the info.

Topic can be closed. Why you gotta do this..

[Syln]

Il y a 6 heures, HolyDemon00 a dit :

Actually Equinox should be nerfed, because just like Trinity got nerfed as a DPS while she's a healer support, Equinox should got nerfed as a healer CC while she's a DPS.

The equivalence is accurate.

Equinox is both a dps and a healer depending on her form, two warframe in one was the idea so no that's not accurate at all.

[kyori]

11 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We are going to change just that - no self-damage through Link. We are going to apply this rule to Trinity, Nidus, and Nekros for consistency. Trinity is a fantastic support Warframe and being top-tier DPS in addition to that role does not suit her. Expect this change this week on PC!

Please look into Equinox this week too. People complained she is just using 1 button to kill off too many enemies aka nuke the map and it disrupt other players from having fun just like Ember. Perhaps can cap the enemies she can affect with maim so she won't overkill and stole fun from other players. 

[Nines.AI]

42 minutes ago, Kinjeto said:

What about the self damage with Peaceful Provocation? What about the self damage to buff up Chroma? Also what about scaling damage/emergent gameplay systems for Endurance runs? These are high risk reward mechanics when self damaging. When Trin gets self damage this is also a high risk reward play.

@[DE]Rebecca

I can't believe people actually think this lol, imagine thinking just jumping a pressing the altfire button is a high risk, high reward playstyle.

It's so obtusely simple and is almost the definition of low risk high reward, the only people you see who are actively at risk of dying with the build are people whom are on a bad connection.

Edited June 5, 2018 by Nines.AI

[JaycemeSwain]

10 minutes ago, kyori said:

Please look into Equinox this week too. People complained she is just using 1 button to kill off too many enemies aka nuke the map and it disrupt other players from having fun just like Ember. Perhaps can cap the enemies she can affect with maim so she won't overkill and stole fun from other players. 

Just stop crying, you wouldn't want mesa to be nerfed so don't ask for Equinox to be nerfed. Crybabies like you are the reason WOF Ember, Spore Saryn & now nuke Trin are dead. Who the fudge really cares if its too effective, that is the whole bloody point. Please go play actual high level content and realize that you're just wanting to kill the vet game, 1 frame at a time

[NezuHimeSama]

Typical DE. Rather than fixing the two bugs that make this work, they nerf the ability. FFS SMH.

And you know what? Ancient healers will still take 0 damage from radiation attacks because LOL DE.

[(PSN)OmegaSlayer]

I'm ok with the change but...DE please check out the tileset size/complexity - enemy faction - enemy aggro - spawn rate ratio in ESO.

[Rogelio_Gaona]

hace 12 horas, [DE]Rebecca dijo:

We are going to change just that - no self-damage through Link. We are going to apply this rule to Trinity, Nidus, and Nekros for consistency. Trinity is a fantastic support Warframe and being top-tier DPS in addition to that role does not suit her. Expect this change this week on PC!

@[DE]Rebecca A waaaay better option would be reduce the damage done to the enemies based on distance, so can kill by self damage only enemies at very VERY short distances, 

Or at least, instead of that, no self-damage taken at all with Link active plz, oterwhise this hability is gonna be useless without the augment.
Is bored to play triny only to press 2 then 4 then 2 then 4........ only to see the other players in the team kill and get affinity 

Sorry for my english im Mexican.

Edited June 5, 2018 by Rogelio_Gaona