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TheGreenGunner

My Feedback on Missions and Levels in Warframe

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26 minutes ago, TheGreenGunner said:

Please, if in Solo mode, give us a pop-up asking if we wish to extract now or not. If we choose no, allow us to re-enter the zone to trigger it, or perhaps have an interactable object there that triggers the extraction. Give Solo players a second chance! 😛

I almost always play in solo. I like that it lets me extract instantly. There has never been a time when I thought "Oh, I wish I could have stayed and gone back for that one thing".

 

They could do an "opt-in/out" system. DE could stick an option in the settings, if ticked it gives a 5 second countdown or something. So, those that want instant extraction are not inconvenienced. 

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Regarding parkour treasure rooms, as the player I am now? Sure, I can breeze through these rooms, because I've done the trial and error, I've watched the videos, I'm already familiar with what to expect.

But as a new player experiencing these mysteries for the first time? I found these rooms to be unreasonably frustrating.

Navigating these rooms is not at all intuitive. Figuring out that you need to press certain buttons, ones that are squares in some rooms and ornate circles in others, is not something that occured to me the first few times around. And the timer is unforgiving if you are not familiar with the full ins and outs of Parkour and not using a speedy frame.
These rooms also seem to just...bug out some of the time, not opening no matter what you do sometimes, or a button not activating a necessary door, and so on. (It could be that since I first started writing my notes about this, they are less buggy now, but it's worth noting that this was adding to my frustrations).

I don't think it's reasonable that these rooms should be permanently locked if you fail, with no way of retrying or working around it or being presented with an alternative side-objective to re-open the room. I prefer quality over quantity of missions played. Perhaps a significant amount of enemies could be summoned that must be defeated to progress? Perhaps something might need hacking? Maybe there's an alternate route that just opened up? There's other ways this could be handled without shutting out the player for good, for that mission.


In the same token, the Orokin Moon Tests take the same issues and push them up a notch.

I would have no idea how to proceed on the Orokin Moon Tests without out-of-game assistance. Period.

I didn't even realize some of the Test rooms were Test rooms until I looked outside of the game.

Some of these tests flatly require multiple players as well, and that's not at all fair to Solo players. It also feels like you need to be precognitive and take specific loadouts in order to complete some of them. And the test that eats up your Energy is a real kick in the teeth; if you have no means of easily recharging Energy, or you happen to be using an Energy-hungry warframe, and you are none the wiser when entering that room, you can be royally screwed.


I get that these are meant to be mysterious and challenging. I'm saying that they fail to do so, and instead serve as frustrating "noob hurdles" that, once you discover how to get in the know, become trivial and lose whatever lustre they might have otherwise had. (Kinda like Grineer spy vaults.)

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5 minutes ago, krc473 said:

I almost always play in solo. I like that it lets me extract instantly. There has never been a time when I thought "Oh, I wish I could have stayed and gone back for that one thing".

 

They could do an "opt-in/out" system. DE could stick an option in the settings, if ticked it gives a 5 second countdown or something. So, those that want instant extraction are not inconvenienced. 

Earth tiles in particular tend to have back-rooms with lootable objects behind the Extraction area....
And yes, that would suffice!

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My experiences with the Lua Spy rooms my first few times around was thoroughly negative.

The time portals in particular stood out to me as something I could find no clue about and had no idea how to interact with; I had to look up a guide outside of the game (an all-too-common theme here) in order to figure out what you can/must shoot the portals to open them. How would that occur to a player naturally, encountering these things for the very first time?

Not being able to disable the many laser traps, any one of which can trigger the timer in rooms that can take 5-10 minutes to navigate, feels grossly unfair. Granted, it gives Limbo a useful niche, but is that really a good thing that it's difficult to the point that it should be cheesed through Rift mode?

The "spectator" drones being able to spot you across the room, well outside the range of their visual sight lasers, was another nasty surprise for me.

The Wall-glide panel room was also not fun for me; trying to wallglide onto the panels and jump from one to the next while shooting to progress to each one, felt very clunky - these game mechanics are not smooth enough to work well for that puzzle to work reliably without lots of practice. Even now, on the rare occasions that I return to Lua Spy, I avoid these like the plague and prefer to take the risk presented by shooting the time portal and proceeding that way.

Speaking of practice, Lua Spy rooms are the reason I know that this known issue from 2 years ago is still around:
 

That's right, I lost all progress and was thrown out of a Lua Spy mission, that I was busy trying to figure out, on short notice (similar to the unfortunate fellow who posted that thread) with little-to-no explanation, because of a holdover feature/bug from back when Warframe first started.

To call that experience 'aggravating' is an understatement.

Again, once "in the know"? These rooms present a sorta interesting challenge and are something different and neat to do once in a while. But that requires being "in the know" with how they work and how to progress through them, which requires studying resources presented out-of-game.

So...maybe these deserve a rework or two.

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So, they require Wiki reading? Like the majority of the game does? I fail to see the problem.

I like them because they require some level of skill, and you can still fail them even if you know what you are doing, but failing them isn't a major thing (except for Maroo's mission).

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Syndicate Extraction enemy scaling feels higher than usual, and a bit too high?

Syndicate Survival mission is a bit lame - without Nekros and Desecrate, it's often all but impossible to find all 8 things in time, and oftentimes unknowing players just rush the mission without stopping to find them, which makes playing in Open a poor choice...which again makes it difficult to find all 8 things in time without using Nekros with Desecrate.

I've encountered situations where Syndicate medallions don't appear if joining a host who already collected them all. See my thread regarding giving me a choice between joining in-progress or waiting for a fresh-start mission.

All too often, Syndicate Operatives start outside the map or stuck inside it. A bit underwhelming, to find your help is incapacitated before you even start, y'know?

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3 minutes ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

So, they require Wiki reading? Like the majority of the game does? I fail to see the problem.

I like them because they require some level of skill, and you can still fail them even if you know what you are doing, but failing them isn't a major thing (except for Maroo's mission).

I mean, you stated the problem and stated that you fail to see it. Which is it? 😛

I don't see it as an acceptable state of affairs that so much regarding Warframe is only knowable by not playing the game.

And, sure, being challenging is a good thing...but I see a fine line between that and just being frustrating and unforgiving for those not "in the know".

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During the quest, you hear the following dialogue: "What are the corpus up to?" when it's a Grineer map filled with Grineer enemies.

Quite minor, but odd enough that I'd thought I'd make note of it here nontheless.

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I disliked that the request required me to build and claim parts rather than just collect the blueprints and build the parts at my leisure.

The missions throughout the quest tend to require teammates...which is rather difficult to count on for a Quest mission. It'd be nice if the mission types were changed to something more suitable for Solo play. (a.k.a. Not interception.)

Lastly, the fact that the quest doesn't reward the main blueprint? That's awfully puzzling, particularly given the story behind the quest.

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8 minutes ago, TheGreenGunner said:

and oftentimes unknowing players just rush the mission without stopping to find them

It is more likely players that do not care about them. I would not stop to pick one up or mark it.

10 minutes ago, TheGreenGunner said:

I've encountered situations where Syndicate medallions don't appear if joining a host who already collected them all.

That is intentional. Really, if you want to hunt down all the tokens public is a bad choice. It is far better just to run it on private. 

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As per title; this was a one-off occurence, but I had cleared the map of all enemies, had rescued the hostage successfully, and before heading to extraction had ventured into an end-tile - the one with lots of flames and a back-entrance loot room that requires traversing a hazardous pit by way of pipes and wall-climbing (or just long-jumping).

I was dismayed to discover the hostage tried to follow me, got stuck on one of the flaming pipes - visibly could not get off of it - and was in short order killed by it, resulting in mission failure. Being that I had cleared the rest of the map of loot and enemies to that point, it was quite the sad moment.

Perhaps worth considering should you decide to give the tileset in general a facelift? At least ensuring the hostage can't get trapped on top of harmful hazards would be nice.

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4 minutes ago, krc473 said:

It is more likely players that do not care about them. I would not stop to pick one up or mark it.

That is intentional. Really, if you want to hunt down all the tokens public is a bad choice. It is far better just to run it on private. 

Well, I'd sit and convince you otherwise regarding them, but that's neither here nor there (and if you've already finished the Syndicate grind, I feel you, believe me). It's mostly a pain felt in Survival mode in particular, though.

Regarding the in-progress host thing...why would that be intentional? "Hey, you got put into an in-progress mission, now you can't get the rewards you were looking for, loser!" I highly doubt that's DE's thinking there, and it's just an oversight related to in-progress matchmaking.

Sure, it's easier and convenient on Solo, but it's nice to be able to team up with others and work together to collect them all, and I don't see why that ought to be discouraged - hence, I've made this suggestion thread! 😛

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3 minutes ago, TheGreenGunner said:

I mean, you stated the problem and stated that you fail to see it. Which is it? 😛

I don't see it as an acceptable state of affairs that so much regarding Warframe is only knowable by not playing the game.

And, sure, being challenging is a good thing...but I see a fine line between that and just being frustrating and unforgiving for those not "in the know".

Due to Warframe's randomly generated mission spaces and modular playstyle, I fail to see anyway to remove dependence on the Wiki without holding every player's hand.

And once you have learned a parkour room/spy vault/challenge room/rescue tile, you don't need your hand held.

Beyond having some sort of basic tutorial for each of these mission types (which we technically already have for Spy/Rescue, even though they are poorly designed and notated), I can't see any way to hint at what to do in these tiles/missions without straight out telling players what to do, which removes any sense of discovery or accomplishment and just turns it into a chore. However, I do think the Spy/Rescue tutorials should have more notation in-mission, such as a note along the lines of "Look for destructible objects in the environment to find easier paths."

And I personally like Wiki games. Reading about stat interactions, finding out about hidden synergies, and being given large amounts of information without having to unlock it or navigate through a tedious UI is something I enjoy. I know that it isn't for everyone, but barring a complete re-write of Warframe's code and a complete redesign of its mission structure and tilesets, I fail to see how this game could stop being a Wiki game, especially as there are a lot of other things the game doesn't tell you about. Dragon Keys and Orokin Vaults? Not even a Codex entry. How to obtain Oxium/Nitain/Kuva/Cryotic? Not a single hint in-game. The list goes on, and if they added every single system and secret of the tilesets, resources, and missions into the Codex, it would be so bloated that finding what you were looking for would be a chore. Hence, the majority of it simply 'hiding' on the Wiki.

I do think that DE should take a slightly more active role regarding the Wiki, as well as providing links to it in-game, so as to make it easier to find, but I don't think they can remove the game's dependence on it.

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1. Rescued hostages, if given a weapon, can kill a Synthesis target in as little as 3 hits (certainly would have taken longer ifI'd been using the weapon myself). Quite inconvenient for the purposes of Synthesis. 😛

2. I've had scan targets bug out and have no remaining spots to scan and thereby be incompletable. Uncertain about the conditions in which this bug occurs.

3. When multiple people are scanning the same target, it 'completes', but sometimes bugs out and doesn't reward anything.

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5 minutes ago, TheGreenGunner said:

(and if you've already finished the Syndicate grind, I feel you, believe me)

I have four syndicates. It has gotten to the point where I see no value in doing anything syndicate related. Something about "lack of content" but that is another topic.

6 minutes ago, TheGreenGunner said:

Regarding the in-progress host thing...why would that be intentional?

Because the other three people do not want to wait for you. If you join a squad of three people, who have 7/8 tokens, why should they have to waste their time for your benefit? They would have to wait, and do nothing while you hunted for the seven things they already got. Those three people will not wait for you, you will contribute nothing to the mission, and likely leave without the things you came for anyway. That is my understanding of why DE made the system this way. This is where the whole "in progress vs. new session" suggestion would come in (I agree, it should be a thing).

9 minutes ago, TheGreenGunner said:

Sure, it's easier and convenient on Solo, but it's nice to be able to team up with others and work together to collect them all, and I don't see why that ought to be discouraged

Sometimes you can get a group from recruiting. 

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3 minutes ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

Due to Warframe's randomly generated mission spaces and modular playstyle, I fail to see anyway to remove dependence on the Wiki without holding every player's hand.

And once you have learned a parkour room/spy vault/challenge room/rescue tile, you don't need your hand held.

Beyond having some sort of basic tutorial for each of these mission types (which we technically already have for Spy/Rescue, even though they are poorly designed and notated), I can't see any way to hint at what to do in these tiles/missions without straight out telling players what to do, which removes any sense of discovery or accomplishment and just turns it into a chore. However, I do think the Spy/Rescue tutorials should have more notation in-mission, such as a note along the lines of "Look for destructible objects in the environment to find easier paths."

And I personally like Wiki games. Reading about stat interactions, finding out about hidden synergies, and being given large amounts of information without having to unlock it or navigate through a tedious UI is something I enjoy. I know that it isn't for everyone, but barring a complete re-write of Warframe's code and a complete redesign of its mission structure and tilesets, I fail to see how this game could stop being a Wiki game, especially as there are a lot of other things the game doesn't tell you about. Dragon Keys and Orokin Vaults? Not even a Codex entry. How to obtain Oxium/Nitain/Kuva/Cryotic? Not a single hint in-game. The list goes on, and if they added every single system and secret of the tilesets, resources, and missions into the Codex, it would be so bloated that finding what you were looking for would be a chore. Hence, the majority of it simply 'hiding' on the Wiki.

I do think that DE should take a slightly more active role regarding the Wiki, as well as providing links to it in-game, so as to make it easier to find, but I don't think they can remove the game's dependence on it.

(I wish I knew how to break up quotes on this forum)

Granted, adding the pertinent information in a digestible manner that is contextualized and indiced in an appropriate manner in game can be a challenge...but it worked just fine in Mass Effect with the Codex Entries.

Might I suggest we use the Warframe Codex for much the same purposes?

I don't think there should be a tutorial for spy/rescue/challenge rooms, certainly, but they could be redesigned, expanded upon, and altered.

And, there's many ways you could hint at what to do, with enough time and creativity. Merely making it so "shoot the portals" and "look for buttons to push" appear elsewhere in the game as part of a mission at least once (though *not* as part of a similar room) would give players some familiar ground to work with, a reference if you will.

I rather find having to sift through the Wikia to find information that could be easily divulged ingame to be what's tedious, but that may just be a matter of subjective opinion!

Having decent sorting and filtering tools would take care of the Codex feeling bloated. I don't know if you ever played Civilization: B.E., but that had a great example of how to assemble an information guide in-game - both full of flavor and useful information in an easily digestible format.

It may well be that Warframe will never be wholly free of relying on the Wikia, but they sure could take a number of steps to making the game feel like a self-contained whole.

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you've made 17 threads in about 2~3 hours, it's time to make 1 single large post rather than taking up more than a half a page with different topics.

(Reader note: they've been combined into one large post)

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I once looted a map after doing a sabotage mission. I hadn't noticed the timer. Bye bye loot and rewards: timer got to zero before I extracted. Since then, if I want to loot or explore, I do it before finishing the mission. Once the objective is done, whatever the mission is, it's running for extraction time. I won't be caught doing the same mistake twice.

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1 minute ago, Gandergear said:

you've made 18 threads in about 2~3 hours, it's time to make 1 single large post rather than taking up more than a half a page with different topics.

Not enough attention would be given that way ;D 

 

Again with this thread, newbies are suppose to have these difficulties, they’re suppose to fail the first 10 times or so, that’s how trial and error works. You said you find it hard at start but then breezes through them....newbies can also do that 

 

  There’s no point of failing if you can still do the room. What’s a ‘parkour’ room if you can just kill enemies and get the rewards. You fail you get nothing, simple as that, same with life

 

   As for the moon rooms, it’s basically the same thing but a bit harder. You will fail, hell I failed the first few times, there’s nothing wrong with that. If find a problem with looking at outside sources and ‘not playing the game’ then this game isn’t for you, because that’s how it’ll stay for the next few years, trying to tutorialize Warframe is a very hard thing the devs can’t afford to do 

 

  As for the solo-ability, the room you mention literally gives you the COACTION drift, it’s in the name....it makes perfect sense that you need a squad to do it. Hell you only need 2 ppl, not 4 since you can use your operators 

 

 

  Again, dude, most of these threads are either non-issues or minor ones. Think before you post

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I responded to your opening point namely "One of my earliest pet peeves was discovering that Interception missions are all but impossible if playing alone. ". I reject that point, state that I actually prefer to play that way and suggest why I think our experiences might differ is due to your grasp of one of the game's key systems.

Perhaps, next time, you should learn to accept criticism as comfortably as you seem to dish it out.

 

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46 minutes ago, TheGreenGunner said:

have no remaining spots to scan

are you sure you weren't targeting the clone some of the targets spawns?

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43 minutes ago, Gandergear said:

you've made 17 threads in about 2~3 hours, it's time to make 1 single large post rather than taking up more than a half a page with different topics.

You do realize that some of his threads fall under different Feedback categories, and therefore should not be combined into one thread?

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Not sure if you really want any discussion... but here I am.

The point of having data stored in safe place is not an issue so it's more surprising that Tenno can so easily break into Grineer and Corpus vaults. Lua Spy rooms are really great: you don't usually have the only optimal way to the final console and you need some skill even when 'You know what to do, Tenno' (c)

Spectator drones can't see you when you're behind. And with their script-like behavior avoiding them is as easy as taking candy from a child.

Wall-latch room can be done in the present: ruins and spectators are much safer if you're not good in latching.

The 'issue' of failing a mission if you don't kill a single enemy is not an issue. There're more then a dozen of possible issues this mechanic solves that I can think of right now. Now you know why exactly your mission failed and you can manage to avoid it in the future.

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1 hour ago, krc473 said:

I have four syndicates. It has gotten to the point where I see no value in doing anything syndicate related. Something about "lack of content" but that is another topic.

Because the other three people do not want to wait for you. If you join a squad of three people, who have 7/8 tokens, why should they have to waste their time for your benefit? They would have to wait, and do nothing while you hunted for the seven things they already got. Those three people will not wait for you, you will contribute nothing to the mission, and likely leave without the things you came for anyway. That is my understanding of why DE made the system this way. This is where the whole "in progress vs. new session" suggestion would come in (I agree, it should be a thing).

Sometimes you can get a group from recruiting. 

That depends on who the three people are. I always tried to help people find ones they missed, if they happened to appear in time for the medallions to still be there. And, yup, good to know someone agrees, lol

I suppose recruiting would be the sensible way to go about it, but...not that many people are doing the Syndicate stuff even just in Open, in my experience...maybe 'cause they're all in solo for the reasons mentioned in this thread, ha!

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Oof. Yeah, been there done that. It's odd that some Sabotage missions start a timer and others don't.

Still, the fact that the operative got *stuck* means it's a glitch and ought to be tacked onto a list of things to bugfix at some point. 😛

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