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TheGreenGunner

My Feedback on Missions and Levels in Warframe

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59 minutes ago, tprx said:

Beside practicing in the relay, I always look the test up before practice. Once I can reliably do it, I go for the test.

Here's a page that gives you the heads up: http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Mastery_Rank

That page has been a helpful link to me many times, I admit. Ideally, though, I don't think we should have to stop playing the game and look outside the game in order to figure out how to play the game.

 

41 minutes ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

Maybe they mean knowing the location of the wiki is being "in the know" Because I have yet to figure this phrase or the OP's suspicion about the rest of us. Just getting tired of more and more threads. Can you like condense the rest of your notepad into one post?

 

Also, did you check the controls when you started playing? There's like an entire list of archwing controls you can customize. I don't know this because I am "in the know" but because I am left handed and have to change all controls.

 

Or wait, maybe it's left-handed people that are these "in the know" VIP members of the game.

You were being respectful before, you are not doing so any more. If you continue to not do so, you might find quite quickly that I've nothing left to say to you.
(And no, check your control customization again. There are maybe 2 customizable archwing controls. Nowhere does it describe the combo of space+shift. I am left-handed too and this is why I know about this problem, which I've already provided feedback on it elsewhere.)

 

40 minutes ago, GinKenshin said:

There is no progression, they come up with these stuff on the fly. They can’t change it either because that’s one of the most redundant things they can do 

 

  Also, tutorial for AW movement now.....dude, please, just let people play the damn game and figure it out. If you don’t like that this is not the game for you 

There's no such thing as being unable to change something, once created. The only question is whether you are aware of what to change, and being able to apply that change. DE already has the latter, and Feedback supplements the former.

In what possible manner would a tutorial for Archwing maneuvers possibly hamper or hinder your being able to "just play the damn game"? What on earth can you possibly construe about this suggestion as something that you should take personally and get defensive over? Not to mention "Don't like it get out" is the exact opposite of what the intent of a game is to begin with, and also the opposite of how a "community" is supposed to work. Maybe consider what you're saying and how you're saying it before you do so next time?

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you could make just one big feedback post, or a couple big ones.

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47 minutes ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

Oooh again, basically hand-holding should be a par tof the game. Of course. We aren't allowed challenge.

Call me an idealist who can't let go of Half Life, but game mechanics need two phases: the intro and the challenge. Warframe has a long history of forgetting the first step with minor little mechanics like the 300% damage boost in T4

That said, WF is better at it than OP thinks it is. OP thinks that Vay Hek is badly telegraphed and gives no feedback despite a cutscene at the start of the mission showing you how Vay Hek's weakpoint works.

35 minutes ago, Dark_RRiderr said:

200 % more? I dont know if its really that much but yeah, they are corrupted, they are supposed to be stronger versions of the standard one so of course they deal more damage.

It's not just the fact they're corrupted. T4 Void Missions give all enemies a 300% (or +200%, however you wanna spell it) damage boost on top of their normal Corrupted boosts. OP is complaining about how there is no indication of this until you are flat on your back dead or unless you stumble upon it in the wiki

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31 minutes ago, Dark_RRiderr said:

Yeah i know what you mean, sometimes i thought on higher level mastery tests "HOLY S#&$ this was EASY and fast LOL" while on others i needed to prepare more carefully after i saw the test in practice mode.

Also strongly agree on the Arkwing needs some SHORT tooltip tutorial because if friends didnt told me how to use shift to boost accelerate faster, together with space boosting and some other minor tricks it would have been seriously pissing off on your very first time flying the ark wing in the first ark wing quest mission. A short description wouldnt hurt on that one if you never flew on ingame and dont got friends telling you about the controls.

Still i love the Mastery tests, hope they include some mini mission modes alike this.... actually.... sounds like a plan given me another of my typical "ideas noone asked for" topics in forum. Some kind of mini mission modes that maybe even players can create as challanges for others (i would be even ok with DE creating a S#&$ton of different mini missions all with different conditions much like in the mastery missions, would add a REAL challange if you chain them up)

Hell yeah instead of Sanctuary Onslaught why not having something alike it but instead of ONLY killing around the entire mission type changes, and the conditions also change after every "portal" THAT would be a nice challange if you ask me. (Just without that damn keeping up the killing procentage but could be added as a condition) and with the option of extracting after 5 mini missions it just asks if you want to go on or stay. A challange of adepting to different situations no matter what warframe you got and what weapons you got. MAYBE i write something like that down later not sure yet lol

I too do *like* the Mastery tests and the overall theme of going through tests to judge one's mastery over their Warframes!

I like the idea for something like SO, with the mission changing after every portal...that would interest me. It would make Warfarme & weapon choice quite a lot harder!

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Yeah i remember as i was newer to the game and did this mode for the first time. I felt exactly like you about it and wasnt happy with the way this works. Then after i got a lot more expirience, better mods, weapons ect i thought "damn this is easy lol"

Still the point is if you do that for the first time then yes, surely frustrating all in all.

The point why its made this way might be so the mods and blueprints you can get there are more special so not everyone has them (trade value MAYBE higher on the WF market also, but didnt checked yet) so thats maybe why they made it this way so its actually worth something and not just something easily farmable. There are still worse. Lephantis for example can on the beginning be annoying to farm (the coordinates ect and making the keys and so on) if you are doing that on the beginning.

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1 hour ago, Faulcun said:

Now imagine us running hour long survivals and 100 wave defenses when T4 keys were still a thing. Good times with clan members!

ALL of the corrupted enemies on all of the void missions have always dealt more damage for as long as i can remember. You may have just not noticed on lower levels until you got roflstomped.

But out of all the things in this game lacking in-game information or tutorials....

So anyways, now that you know this information... what are you gonna do about it?

From my personal experience, i can give the tip that all of the corrupted enemies have projectile weapons. Good footwork will keep you alive better than any iron skin can.

 

Unfortunately, good footwork won't save you from rounding a corner into 3 Corpus shotgunners all bunched up because the spawns put them there. lol

If it is true that *all* void enemies do more damage, I've never seen that information even on the wikia. Either way, 200% is excessive!

And, it's not about what I'm going to do with it - this is the Feedback forum, it's about what DE is going to do with it. 😛

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Yeah but do we really now have a warning of "Oh carefull this mission has enemys that have 200 % more damage" like children? Come on....

Feel sometimes a little bit to much taking people by the hand makes things way to easy.

Warframe already is way to easy if you reach a certein point, and yeah, adding Sanctuary Onslaught wasnt really adding a challange, its getting boring pretty fast and tidious.

Would like to see they add enemys making you attack more tactical instead of just "Oh my DPS is the best tactic" ....

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1 hour ago, ChickenDrawsDogs said:

I think the T4 missions like Mot are designed to allow for relatively fast leveling-up as well as encourage cooperative gameplay. Get a Slow Nova/Saryn in the squad and they become a breeze. If you're going solo, consider camping in areas with just 1 entrance (which are ALWAYS your start point, either the room with 1 big door or the tube). Bring weapons that can inflict damage on multiple enemies at once (Opticor, Amprex for example, mod them for Corrosive/Viral damage).

If you prefer a more head-on approach, stick with me on this: Atlas is an absolutely devastating warframe to bring along. Why? Modded for efficiency, moderate strength (150-170%) and range, he can petrify waves and waves of enemies and pulverize them with Landslide (invulnerability while attacking, while the third punch in the combo is a monster that can grind petrified lvl 100 enemies to dust, shatter Corrupted Nullifiers' shield if you hit the enemies AROUND them, or send the walking ones flying, giving you the chance to escape in a pinch or counterattack), plus, think about the 1500 stone armor bonus and the healing, though be careful when casting Petrify, because Atlas is vulnerable in that split 1 second casting animation.

Well, you're not wrong about Nova/Saryn enabling things...that's sort of a commentary on Warframe design and scaling issues, though, so that's unfortunately outside the remit of mission/level design for these nodes to have 200% bonus enemy damage. (And I do know how to 'cope' with it, so I do appreciate the advice but I am already aware! I just feel that design-wise this is not the right way to go about things.)

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I found the arena a little better than the Ambulas farming, but this sort of mechanic to get to a boss is rather ill-conceived (imho). It's like something to extend the game play time of a bad game, which WF isn't. We have so much more to do that's time consuming in this game that these mechanics are, from my point of view, unwelcome. I was lucky to get Saryn parts really fast, but I'm still short on Trinity. Which I've shelved for the moment, because I have other things I find more enjoyable to do.

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12 minutes ago, Dark_RRiderr said:

Yeah but do we really now have a warning of "Oh carefull this mission has enemys that have 200 % more damage" like children? Come on....

Feel sometimes a little bit to much taking people by the hand makes things way to easy.

Warframe already is way to easy if you reach a certein point, and yeah, adding Sanctuary Onslaught wasnt really adding a challange, its getting boring pretty fast and tidious.

Would like to see they add enemys making you attack more tactical instead of just "Oh my DPS is the best tactic" ....

Well, it doesn't need to specifically spell out the figure, but some kind of hint or warning that "Hey, this content is going to be harder" - like the Nightmare missions - would be just dandy!

And we may have to agree to disagree on what is and is not handholding - in no way do I see giving your players information (within reason!) about the game they're playing as hand-holding.

I agree that Warframe can feel easy after a certain point, but that's wholly to do with the bonkers modding system and damage scaling and so on, it's a domino effect of power scaling problems that I think DE really needs to tackle and do-over from the ground up, starting with not mimicing Mass Effect 1 and all its modding & power scaling flaws.

I'm not too sure what you mean by more 'tactical'; WF being a self-described "horde shooter" I'm not sure that you can get away from DPS being the best tactic, not without introducing a significant change in the way many missions are laid out.

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6 minutes ago, TheGreenGunner said:

There's no such thing as being unable to change something, once created. The only question is whether you are aware of what to change, and being able to apply that change. DE already has the latter, and Feedback supplements the former.

In what possible manner would a tutorial for Archwing maneuvers possibly hamper or hinder your being able to "just play the damn game"? What on earth can you possibly construe about this suggestion as something that you should take personally and get defensive over? Not to mention "Don't like it get out" is the exact opposite of what the intent of a game is to begin with, and also the opposite of how a "community" is supposed to work. Maybe consider what you're saying and how you're saying it before you do so next time?

I don’t know about if they wanna change it, but I can guarantee you they don’t have the time to, this is a very very minor ‘issue’, thus there’s little to no time for it, which means the devs won’t do anything about it, simple as that.....if you’ve been here for a long time then you’d know DE’s way of doing things, which basically comes down to “if it works, then leave it and move on”. Threes minor QoL you post about are a rare delicacy in Warframe, and aren’t the focus of the devs. There’s nothing wrong with posting them, but there’s no reason why you can’t just make a thread containing all of them 

 

like many of your ‘feedback’ it’s plain redundant, there’s no need to put hours of work time and resources for something that: 1- takes like 10 min 2- the players can find out for themselves with no costs 3- content that not many players do to begin with (and no, I know what you’re gonna say, but lack of movement tutorial is not the reason ppl don’t play AW) 

 

  If you’re gonna keep trying to make the game to your liking then you won’t succeed, I can tell you that right now. Everything you post is either: totally redundant, makes sense but doesn’t even need a whole topic/thread for or asking for something you know little about. You’re basically like the game reviewer that reviews a game after barely playing it and attempts to provide feedback 

 

  But by all means keep posting, I’m having a very good time with your threads 

 

 

  On a final note, maybe consider your feedback before posting it next time? 

 

  

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2 minutes ago, GinKenshin said:

I don’t know about if they wanna change it, but I can guarantee you they don’t have the time to, this is a very very minor ‘issue’, thus there’s little to no time for it, which means the devs won’t do anything about it, simple as that.....if you’ve been here for a long time then you’d know DE’s way of doing things, which basically comes down to “if it works, then leave it and move on”. Threes minor QoL you post about are a rare delicacy in Warframe, and aren’t the focus of the devs. There’s nothing wrong with posting them, but there’s no reason why you can’t just make a thread containing all of them

I do agree, time is the number 1 limiting factor with any design team! Elite Dangerous has had the same issue plagueing them, I'm strongly hoping that there as well they can find a way to balance their time to handle the small stuff along with doing the big things like adding new content - because boy, are the small things piling up and obscuring everything else.

And no, I haven't been here a long time, but just because that's how things might have been up til now, doesn't mean that in itself cannot change.

I can try to condense it, but they all do talk about different specific topics...the reason there's so many from me in particular, is I've been reluctant to move it from my notes to actual Feedback, partly because of the very forum hostility I've encountered a few times now.

5 minutes ago, GinKenshin said:

like many of your ‘feedback’ it’s plain redundant, there’s no need to put hours of work time and resources for something that: 1- takes like 10 min 2- the players can find out for themselves with no costs 3- content that not many players do to begin with (and no, I know what you’re gonna say, but lack of movement tutorial is not the reason ppl don’t play AW)

Maybe seemingly so, but a few hours of work and resources that saves 10,000 players 10 minutes of time at a time winds up having a huge return on investment, if you consider it as a whole! The little things do matter and do make a difference, when we bother to deal with them.

And, well, the reasons people don't play Archwing is a whole lot of little things that need dealing with, that taken as a whole are an understandable reason for avoiding the mode. All the more reason those things should be fixed, then, instead of avoided indefinitely!

7 minutes ago, GinKenshin said:

  But by all means keep posting, I’m having a very good time with your threads

  On a final note, maybe consider your feedback before posting it next time?

"Keep posting" "consider before posting" - which message are you sending, here? lol

I do consider my feedback, thoroughly so, before posting. It's generally a lot more diplomatically put and cleaned up from how it's been written down in my notes, lemme tell you....

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Its surely not just a Call of Duty... preperations in some missions give the upper hand (Like you know you only deal with infested, so gas is the best you can use there for the most part) or dealing with grineer or corpus, cold damage also doesnt work to bet from what i saw on the codex but radiation and corro work pretty well for sure as well (and i prefer radi damage to be honest on grineer and corpus)

And the Spy missions are also not really fitting to the "horde shooter" never actually heared it beeing called horde shooter and wouldnt even call it that, its way more then that specially with the story in it, the hacking, the backdoors in spy and rescue missions you can take. This doesnt at all sound like "just a horde shooter" to me.

So yeah, they could easily implent more "tactical" in WF and part of it did with the kuva guardians, still very primitiv but goes in the right direction if you ask me. Just should be a little bit more tactic in some fights then just operator mode and then normal weapons.

The Bosses are also a good example where sometimes DPS alone doesnt help (surely helps but not that alone, have to know how to fight some of them)

Sentients, also a good example of more "Tactical" in some way instead of just dps killing them, you need to switch your damage types to deal more damage or hit them with operator mode to temporary reset their resistance

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vor 15 Minuten schrieb GinKenshin:

I don’t know about if they wanna change it, but I can guarantee you they don’t have the time to, this is a very very minor ‘issue’, thus there’s little to no time for it, which means the devs won’t do anything about it, simple as that

Ahm yeah and you are not the Staff or part of DEs Staff and so i doubt you can guaranty anything sorry.

vor 7 Minuten schrieb TheGreenGunner:
vor 16 Minuten schrieb GinKenshin:

  But by all means keep posting, I’m having a very good time with your threads

  On a final note, maybe consider your feedback before posting it next time?

"Keep posting" "consider before posting" - which message are you sending, here? lol

I do consider my feedback, thoroughly so, before posting. It's generally a lot more diplomatically put and cleaned up from how it's been written down in my notes, lemme tell you....

And with that they surely mean you could have just written it into one big ass topic instead of making several topics. Just if you ask me, a lot of points in the discussion then would be forgotten if there is one topic with about 50 different points to discuss. So again i understand why you written more then one but.... did it really had to be so many?

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1 hour ago, Faulcun said:

Now imagine us running hour long survivals and 100 wave defenses when T4 keys were still a thing. Good times with clan members!

ALL of the corrupted enemies on all of the void missions have always dealt more damage for as long as i can remember. You may have just not noticed on lower levels until you got roflstomped.

But out of all the things in this game lacking in-game information or tutorials....

So anyways, now that you know this information... what are you gonna do about it?

From my personal experience, i can give the tip that all of the corrupted enemies have projectile weapons. Good footwork will keep you alive better than any iron skin can.

 

Indeed,   Ivara tends to stay alive a lot longer that her stats on paper would suggest on these missions assuming You are not sitting in one place taking slow bow shots one to one. But rather are constantly moving lining up artimus for multi-kill shots as opposed to  "bam bam bam= 1 kill 1 kill 1 kill"  at least the in case of Ivara, "1 shot=1 kill" is not good enough.

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1 hour ago, TheGreenGunner said:

Provide clues for all of the ways! That would, in a sense, add to the challenge - you might see clues leading in two different directions, or that are part of two different paths while being near to each other. Just so long as it gives the sense of "Hey, come over here, you can interact with the puzzle this way", that's sufficient!

In a sense, some spy vaults already have these. Things like hack panels to move bridges/open doors, damaged vents, or laser traps. If I see any of those, I know to go in that direction.

1 hour ago, TheGreenGunner said:

If you're talking about a puzzle that shows some signs of progression when you get a thing right, that's a little different from a simple brute-force code, and that is fine - so long as the ways to interact with the things is apparent to the player.

Ah, I forgot to add that bit. These puzzles have things like little lights - you have to make all the lights glow to lower the bridge. But pushing the buttons turns various lights on and off. It is trial and error - you can see the visual queue, but you have to figure out the solution.

1 hour ago, TheGreenGunner said:

And, like, I did acknowledge you guys already where more specific feedback could help more. I just also do see where I'd like them to hear the overall message that, with spy vaults in particular (as with many other parts of Mission/Level design), I feel that design-wise, these creations are not being made with the perspective of "What does this look like to a new player unfamiliar with everything?"; in a word, a lack of intuitivity. That's all!

My suggestion of providing examples was more for the benefit of the people that comment on the post. If people do not know what you imagine the end goal of the changes are, it can be hard to agree/provide useful feedback. From your OP, I assumed you basically wanted DE to make guides on spy missions (a terrible idea, I do not think that is debated). Having small environmental/visual queues to assist in determining the correct way to complete the vault is a reasonable idea.

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1 hour ago, TheGreenGunner said:

Volt's thing sounds silly to me, though - that's a team buff no matter what way you slice it, why would you want it to be optional? Meh

Some people hate the speed buff. When you run a mission with a 1.96 Sprint Speed frame (Loki Prime for example), and you get a 300% power strength Volt's Speed Buff there are issues. You used to be able to run through some walls/doors (admittedly, that was kind of fun).

1 hour ago, TheGreenGunner said:

So it used to be the way that I'd prefer? That's disheartening. And sure, you might not please everyone, but I feel like there's ways to find a middle ground, thinking out of the box if necessary.

There is no middle ground. You either have to extract or stay in the mission. For me, a forced battle is better than a forced extract. The issues around AFK players are a different topic altogether. You have to consider this though: it WAS the way you prefer. Would DE have changed it if they thought it was better the way it was? Probably not. There are reasons why we have forced battle rather than forced extract. Maybe it is AFK people, maybe it is that most people generally want to carry on, maybe it is to promote people staying longer? I do not know.

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1 hour ago, Dark_RRiderr said:

Ahm yeah and you are not the Staff or part of DEs Staff and so i doubt you can guaranty anything sorry.

 

a quick look at DE's update and content history is all anyone needs to see this, even they acknowledge it many times, that's a crappy reasoning you have there tbh  

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47 minutes ago, krc473 said:

Some people hate the speed buff. When you run a mission with a 1.96 Sprint Speed frame (Loki Prime for example), and you get a 300% power strength Volt's Speed Buff there are issues. You used to be able to run through some walls/doors (admittedly, that was kind of fun).

There is no middle ground. You either have to extract or stay in the mission. For me, a forced battle is better than a forced extract. The issues around AFK players are a different topic altogether. You have to consider this though: it WAS the way you prefer. Would DE have changed it if they thought it was better the way it was? Probably not. There are reasons why we have forced battle rather than forced extract. Maybe it is AFK people, maybe it is that most people generally want to carry on, maybe it is to promote people staying longer? I do not know.

Hm. If it had glitches related to it, I'd understand that being annoying, I guess. But still, silly to ask that team AOE buff be opt-in. If y'care enough about not getting that buff, make premade teams with players you know or go into recruiting chat, it ain't that painful! (now to steer back on-topic...)

And, there is a middle ground: what if we had a toggle? Choose whether idling during extraction continues the mission for you or extracts you?

That's an outside-the-box idea that occured to me in passing, surely there's other, possibly better solutions I haven't thought of myself!

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3 hours ago, TheGreenGunner said:

Unfortunately, good footwork won't save you from rounding a corner into 3 Corpus shotgunners all bunched up because the spawns put them there. lol

If it is true that *all* void enemies do more damage, I've never seen that information even on the wikia. Either way, 200% is excessive!

And, it's not about what I'm going to do with it - this is the Feedback forum, it's about what DE is going to do with it. 😛

with ~3600hrs of mission time under my belt, ill have to disagree 🙂

This truly is a situation where you just need a little more experience. Respectfully, I doubt that knowing that they deal more damage has made the missions any easier. In fact, even if somebody had told you ahead of time, your probable response would have been to bring Rhino and use iron skin..... which you've already done and still got roflstomped.

I already tend to bring squishy frames, and im super conservative with my powers too. The majority of my mission play is simple footwork and quick target acquisition.

It just takes a little practice. I suggest joining a clan where members are playing at higher level, and learn from them.

I as well am willing to help. contact me in game anytime.

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4 hours ago, TheGreenGunner said:

As per title. I was astounded at the difficulty of what's termed out-of-game as the "T4 Void missions". And I was quite perturbed to discover that these missions, without any warning or inkling to the player whatsoever, gives enemies a whopping 200% damage modifier.

Talk about excessive! High-level Void enemies can already down many frames in one hit or burst (Corpus shotguns and Grineer gorgons), do you really need to give them even *more* damage on top of that?

This means level 40 bombards can instantly kill fully-modded sentinels, and destroy my fully-kitted Rhino's Iron Skin in 1 hit. Same with those shotguns.

If you want to add challenge to these particular nodes, then first, *warn* the player that these nodes are different from all other nodes in the game. And secondly, please pick something besides giving the enemy so much damage that they can instagib followers and the players themselves.

P.S. For anybody caring about forum functionality, apparently the "%" does not work when placed in titles....

Yeah that’s one of the issues about this game. Since the hardest hitting enemies in the game is in the star chart, it can catch newer player’s off guard since the enemies outside of T4 Void don’t have the same difficulty. Corrupted Crewman is the only enemy i Watch out for since he can do as much as the Corrupted Nullifiers and he’s a lot more common.

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4 hours ago, C4STL3 said:

Indeed,   Ivara tends to stay alive a lot longer that her stats on paper would suggest on these missions assuming You are not sitting in one place taking slow bow shots one to one. But rather are constantly moving lining up artimus for multi-kill shots as opposed to  "bam bam bam= 1 kill 1 kill 1 kill"  at least the in case of Ivara, "1 shot=1 kill" is not good enough.

I have almost 0% play time with ivara. Basically leveled her and havent really touched her since. I tend to play the classics like excal before his rework, volt, nova, ember, banshee, mag, zephyr.

Unfortunately every frame out there now is associated with some kind of meta cheese. But nova has been my favorite for a while I guess. My most used weapon is the lanka.... so my playstyle actually does involve aggressive sniper play, contrary to what you've suggested.

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2 hours ago, Faulcun said:

I have almost 0% play time with ivara. Basically leveled her and havent really touched her since. I tend to play the classics like excal before his rework, volt, nova, ember, banshee, mag, zephyr.

Unfortunately every frame out there now is associated with some kind of meta cheese. But nova has been my favorite for a while I guess. My most used weapon is the lanka.... so my playstyle actually does involve aggressive sniper play, contrary to what you've suggested.

Your post confuses me. I have no idea what "meta cheese" you are talking about, I am unaware of what makes a "classic" warframe. Nor am I going to put in the effort to understand what makes one as it is unimportant.  Kind of makes it sound like the ones you mentioned need periodic carburetor cleaning, get five gallons to the mile and have problems starting in cold weather.

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Like always people dont get what i mean. You never know if they suddenly because of whatever reasons might change that. From what we know you are right yes. You just can never be to sure, DE got their own head and it could happen they suddenly do change it against all odds. Plus just some tooltips added to the first Ark Wing missions showing up you can press shift to accelerate faster and shift + space to boost is sure not to hard to do.

About the rest yeah, thats a different story

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The frequency and proximity to loot barrels of the cryo containers is, frankly, trolling on the part of the devs. Its just another reason to arbitrarily slow players down and add a few seconds per mission, and a few hours played, over the life time of a player. It serves no other purpose, as its not dangerous, nor particularly meaningful in terms of interaction. It is literally there just to slow us down - or, in more practical terms, to annoy players.

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