BladeRambler Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 (edited) Title. I'm tired of slapping formas on my warframes only to wait 10 levels to reuse all my abilities again. Some frames need all 4 to be useful in a squad, and/or for survivability at such low ranks. I'm fine with the current rank-up system for the abilities themselves, I just think access to the full kit should start at the beginning. Edit: I'm MR25 so survivability isn't an issue (and I can fit most mods already on a re-forma'd frame). I'd just like to go into a defense mission with Rank 0 Frost or Gara and protect the objective from the start, for example, instead of pointlessly waiting for the game to unlock those abilities for me. Edited May 31, 2018 by BladeRambler Context Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NullSaint Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 You can always go back to lower level missions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthBane1 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 How about a compromise? If you forma you keep all powers. However, when you start-off it should be like it is now. If you are forma'ing a frame you don't need to re-learn the frame. However, when just getting the frame I think it's a good idea so you learn each power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcatraz Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 (edited) I don't know about survivability being an issue when you can throw in quick thinking and primed flow along with armor if you so need the armor too. Typically my frame is the very last one to go down, and that's because things got real deep, or I was distracted outside of the game for a minute or two. I'm Mr25 so I can fit in plenty of survivability enhancing mods. Edited May 31, 2018 by Alcatraz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TennoPain Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 you can level up a frame in 10 min so this is not a priority i would say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praxxor Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Eh, I managed to go ESO till Zone 8 with my unranked Zephyr and not die even once, I had the second most kills as well. It doesn't matter that much if you got good gear IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiichibukai Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 So make the game even easier? Gotcha. Cmon its not even a big deal anymore...Just go leech in a random pug in SO or Hydron x.x. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[DE]Grzegorz Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, Praxxor said: Eh, I managed to go ESO till Zone 8 with my unranked Zephyr ...doesn't the Elite variant require a lv30 frame? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praxxor Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, JuicyButthurt said: ...doesn't the Elite variant require a lv30 frame? S#&$ got used to saying ESO, yeah it was normal onslaught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Methepybro Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Yeah it can be annoying cause frost is really useless on defense missions without his frost bubble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DatDarkOne Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 14 minutes ago, Methepybro said: Yeah it can be annoying cause frost is really useless on defense missions without his frost bubble. I hope you're being sarcastic and not serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimmMonsoon.ttv Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 8 hours ago, Methepybro said: Yeah it can be annoying cause frost is really useless on defense missions without his frost bubble. Even with his bubbles. I find him more annoying to have in a squad than limbo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)CoolD2108 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 vor einer Stunde schrieb GrimMonsoon: Even with his bubbles. I find him more annoying to have in a squad than limbo. Depends on the frost. Remember to thank twitch for giving newbs Frost Prime en mass... I mean what's there to complain about a negative duration, max rage, IA frost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Knight Raime Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 You can literally go to the most popular defense mission on eris and get carried with enough exp after 5-10 waves that the next mission you open you'll have all your powers. it's not a big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdframe_Prime Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 As a fellow MR25 that's had this account just a liiiiiitle longer than you've had yours... I just don't think it's going to happen. Considering this is a change that DE did when they removed Abilities As Mods, where they deliberately made it so that you don't have access to all abilities at rank 0 because they want you to progress through the stages of levelling a frame... You'll probably be left disappointed. We went through that whole phase of being able to equip fully-ranked abilities at Rank 0, they didn't like it, so they changed it. While we've seen plenty of changes over time, and plenty of times where something that went away came back, what we've not seen are direct reverts of decisions like this. At least be glad that they implemented the MR = Mod points thing so you can actually stick survivability, efficiency and... heck, most of an entire build on at Rank 0. Back when they changed the Abilities to Innate that wasn't a thing and we had to choose between using our Abilities or sticking on a single survival mod, because with an Aura we usually only had 14 points at base, add a couple of forma and most frames could put on a single ability, maybe Vitality and probably Streamline at most. We'd have to play a levelling run with only 1 ability, and not have access to the others even when we levelled up over the course of the mission, because we had to leave the mission and then mod our abilities on in the Arsenal. So yeah. DE changed it to this way because they already tried the other way and don't want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EinheriarJudith Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 (edited) 21 hours ago, BladeRambler said: Title. I'm tired of slapping formas on my warframes only to wait 10 levels to reuse all my abilities again. Some frames need all 4 to be useful in a squad, and/or for survivability at such low ranks. I'm fine with the current rank-up system for the abilities themselves, I just think access to the full kit should start at the beginning. Edit: I'm MR25 so survivability isn't an issue (and I can fit most mods already on a re-forma'd frame). I'd just like to go into a defense mission with Rank 0 Frost or Gara and protect the objective from the start, for example, instead of pointlessly waiting for the game to unlock those abilities for me. alot of the people who don't understand are the ones who weren't around when powers were mods. a frame could be rank 0 and have rank 3 powers right at the start. DE making the powers unlock as you lvl for the first time around np, but after that it should not be that way at all so i agree. unlock all powers at rank 0 after the first forma. Edited June 1, 2018 by EinheriarJudith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EinheriarJudith Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Thaylien said: ~snip~ i believe they changed the system because people were refusing to use to many abilities between each frame. hard to be a dev that works hard on designing skills and people just dont use them for whatever reason. currently there is a disconnect between MR rewarding power between weapons, and warframes. there is no good reason to force anyone beyond the first forma to have to relearn powers especially if they are over MR 10. and i do believe they dont get a pass atleast not from me on a system that half works. Edited June 1, 2018 by EinheriarJudith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EinheriarJudith Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 9 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said: You can literally go to the most popular defense mission on eris and get carried with enough exp after 5-10 waves that the next mission you open you'll have all your powers. it's not a big deal. people actually like playing warframe and not afking on a leech node. might as well give free polarizations at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EinheriarJudith Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 21 hours ago, DatDarkOne said: I hope you're being sarcastic and not serious. he has a point. frost is one of the better point defense frames. any frame can use a gun but frost without either snow globe or avalanche on DEF is just a rank 0 frame using a gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinKenshin Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 3 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said: he has a point. frost is one of the better point defense frames. any frame can use a gun but frost without either snow globe or avalanche on DEF is just a rank 0 frame using a gun. you forgot ice wave....just sayin even better if you have the augment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EinheriarJudith Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Just now, GinKenshin said: you forgot ice wave....just sayin even better if you have the augment i only use ice wave if i use the augment but usually i use icy avalanch or chilling globe and rare use his 2 augment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Knight Raime Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 52 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said: people actually like playing warframe and not afking on a leech node. might as well give free polarizations at that point. Didn't say afk. Just saying you can go into a v popular node and participate and still get enough exp to get your powers back in a single match. This change is entirely not needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EinheriarJudith Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said: Didn't say afk. Just saying you can go into a v popular node and participate and still get enough exp to get your powers back in a single match. This change is entirely not needed. we wont agree on this. there was no need in the first place to have them locked. the change wouldn't really effect anyone negatively. powers start at rank 0 unlocked and still gain ranks as you lvl which is how it should have been you cant learn how to use a power if you cant use it. its common sense. Edited June 1, 2018 by EinheriarJudith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdframe_Prime Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 1 hour ago, EinheriarJudith said: i believe they changed the system because people were refusing to use to many abilities between each frame You're quite correct, however when the change was made, a whole bunch of people complained that now they didn't have access to the abilities at max rank until the Warframe was max rank, it was literally this exact discussion at the time and the answer was that, because the abilities being innate means that they're part of the Warframe's levelling progression, having a max-rank of any ability without having ranked the frame at all would be like having access to max-rank Health, Shields and Energy in terms of mechanics. In short, this whole topic was asked, and answered, at the time. It's the same with your own point about it being 'only the first time'. When you Forma a Warframe it resets all its stats, Abilities being innate means they work like all the other stats, so second, third, fourth, five-hundredth time around the abilities will be reset along with all the Health, Shields and Energy. Again, a deliberate design choice to make sure that Forma has a solid drawback as well as allowing you to be more powerful once you've ranked the frame back up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EinheriarJudith Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Thaylien said: You're quite correct, however when the change was made, a whole bunch of people complained that now they didn't have access to the abilities at max rank until the Warframe was max rank, it was literally this exact discussion at the time and the answer was that, because the abilities being innate means that they're part of the Warframe's levelling progression, having a max-rank of any ability without having ranked the frame at all would be like having access to max-rank Health, Shields and Energy in terms of mechanics. In short, this whole topic was asked, and answered, at the time. It's the same with your own point about it being 'only the first time'. When you Forma a Warframe it resets all its stats, Abilities being innate means they work like all the other stats, so second, third, fourth, five-hundredth time around the abilities will be reset along with all the Health, Shields and Energy. Again, a deliberate design choice to make sure that Forma has a solid drawback as well as allowing you to be more powerful once you've ranked the frame back up. as i just replied to knight. the powers can still start at rank 0. there is a huge difference between a power starting at rank 0 and a power starting at max rank. all 4 powers should be unlocked with them being at rank 0. forma relevance is still intact. Edited June 1, 2018 by EinheriarJudith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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