(XBOX)Knight Raime Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, NoLazyShadow said: I suggested adding a new passive, rather than replacing the current one. And why should she get 2 passives compared to everyone else? 2 minutes ago, NoLazyShadow said: No-no..i want to change her, cus she is outdated, forgoten(just like Nyx, btw she is in same situation as valk..allmost). Her abilitys is not working well. Many other frames do her job much better. You've provided nothing to prove her abilities are not functioning. Nyx is much worse and frankly not comparable. Other frames doing something better is debatable. But even if that were the case that's not relevant. There is no need anywhere in the game to use the absolute best you can use. And it hasn't been that way since void keys were ditched. Player power and survivability in the general sense has shot up dramatically since then. So "best/better" is only relevant to those who choose that playstyle. Which makes it a them problem and not a game problem. 2 minutes ago, NoLazyShadow said: Well for breathing room she have paralycic and hysterya. And i think debuff aura will fit playstyle/character her just fine. Hysteria isn't a usable tool for that because 2 of the 3 factions mess with her playstyle. Infested spam energy drain units and corpus have a handful of units that disable your abilities. Thus her 4 isn't a safe tool for breathing room. and paralysis doesn't create breathing room because of it's limited AOE and stun when not using the augment. There is no functional reason to have a slow be in effect with her. getting to enemies isn't an issue for her. and she has plenty of survivability with warcy properly specced and her 4 being a panic button. 2 minutes ago, NoLazyShadow said: Ability to pull couple of enemys from range directly to you is usefull addition to her melee based kit. it's redundant when her augment for her paralysis exists. 2 minutes ago, NoLazyShadow said: You can never have enough. More EHP is allways good, especialy for melee based frame The build I suggested gives you enough EHP to laugh in the face of level 100 corrupted heavies and bombards. Level 100 enemies are way beyond what normal content is. You. do. not. need. more. ehp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPrime96 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 19 minutes ago, NoLazyShadow said: Her abilitys is not working well. I would like you try Chroma before say her abilities not working well. Her abilities, compare to other frame that's in a bigger need of a rework, is useable but updating it would be fine. Her Nerf is minor compare to his. Valkyr's nerf, with the right build, is hardly noticeable unless you play her badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoLazyShadow Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Только что, (XB1)Knight Raime сказал: And why should she get 2 passives compared to everyone else? Give everyone second passive!) Только что, (XB1)Knight Raime сказал: You. do. not. need. more. ehp You. Can. Never. Have. Enough. More = better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Knight Raime Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 10 minutes ago, NoLazyShadow said: Give everyone second passive!) You. Can. Never. Have. Enough. More = better I'm just going to end the conversation here. I've been repeating myself enough as is. You seek to change her for the sake of change. That may not be your intended reasoning but that is the result. I cannot convince you of how good valkyr currently is nor why she doesn't need to be changed. And you've put nothing on the table that convinces me that she needs to be changed. So this isn't a fruitful discussion for either of us anymore. Good day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoLazyShadow Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Только что, (XB1)Knight Raime сказал: I'm just going to end the conversation here. I've been repeating myself enough as is. You seek to change her for the sake of change. That may not be your intended reasoning but that is the result. I cannot convince you of how good valkyr currently is nor why she doesn't need to be changed. And you've put nothing on the table that convinces me that she needs to be changed. So this isn't a fruitful discussion for either of us anymore. Good day. If you cant see her probmels - i cant help you. Looks like im the only one who even care about her situation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Knight Raime Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Just now, NoLazyShadow said: If you cant see her probmels - i cant help you. Looks like im the only one who even care about her situation... This kinda ticks me off. You could have just agreed to disagree like I did and backed away. But instead you insist the issues you've made up are actual issues and i'm ignorant because I don't agree. And then you end your quick reply with a passive aggressive remark. I'm only going to say this once. Just because you think your opinion is correct doesn't mean it is. Mine isn't either. And i'm willing to be proven wrong. Which hasn't happened yet. But beyond that Valkyr is one of my top 3 most played frames. I've been playing her longer than you've probably even had a warframe account. I do care about her. I defended her lore when it was put under a magnifying glass more than once. I've even proposed my own reworks for her a few years back. I even initially took issue with the energy change on her ult making it cost a lot more. But things changed. Overall player survivability and power increased. So my issues had vanished. Just because someone doesn't happen to agree with you doesn't mean they don't care. Please do yourself a favor and check yourself. Your attitude is not a welcome one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redspace0095 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Personally, I like how she is currently. If I was to change anything it would be to merge the hysteria augment into the skill, whilst it's a useful utility, it's not useful enough IMO to warrant a mod slot.Bind the Hysteria leap to the alt fire control, and make it cost additional energy per leap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Onyx Schnee Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 8 hours ago, VPrime96 said: Kuva Fortress, for me, seems to be the best place for Solo Survival runs because of the enemy spawns there. Even with just animal Instinct, that place have a lot more active spawns than MOT or any other survival like Selkie. Another thing about Valkyr: Imagine playing Rhino, and you only cast iron skin to not get killed. That's Valkyr now. She can be tanky when played well, but she's not as easy as other tanks (Except Chroma since he's all Armor and have a extra buff from Elemental Ward. With the nerf to Vex Armor, he needs more than just Armor.) when it comes to mastering her since her playstyle is very different compare to other tanks. I used her in Elite Onslaught before in a team and squad included Nidus, and another Valkyr Prime using Hirudo. I used Valkyr Prime with my Rivened Arca Titron and I reached 10 or 11 without dying or being downed while the other Valkyr Prime was getting downed. I didn't use Life Strike or Healing return. Valkyr would always be my girl unless DE somehow wreck her with a rework like some players think with Saryn after her rework. THANK YOU for basically proving my point about her viability. I love Valkyr(prime now..) and everything she is. i even bought her straight up when i started playing(did research before installing warframe onto my xone and was immediately set on her) and she currently has my highest use % at 70%(iirc, might've gone down some after i started using different frames and leveling up random stuff.) and i wasn't aware the kuva fortress had more abundent spawns, i'll definitely need to go there for an endurance run sometime...well, a second one. i went on a 1 and a half hour run on my inaros+smeeta a couple months ago....so i should go again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Ochikomu- Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 12 hours ago, (XB1)Orcus Imperium said: to be frank, the condescending attitude doesn't make for a pleasant debate. her paralysis aug with max range+duration makes killing enemies via finisher a breeze. fun fact, there are actually players who will swear up and down that paralysis+aug is just as viable as eternal war(not one of them, since i don't really like that skill) I can vouch for paralysis since I'm one of those players. That is one of my go-to mods because of that reason and can be a viable crowd control. Not saying it's better nor less equal than eternal war (I use both), I use them for my personal preference on how I want to slau...play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPrime96 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, (XB1)Orcus Imperium said: and i wasn't aware the kuva fortress had more abundent spawns, i'll definitely need to go there for an endurance run sometime...well, a second one. i went on a 1 and a half hour run on my inaros+smeeta a couple months ago....so i should go again. I reached that far in a squad when i was using my old account in a public squad and man, it was a lot of fun. The group i was in was 2 Nekros Primes and a rhino prime. I was using the Kronen prime with a riven in it (Maiming strike type of riven with a status chance bonus and - combo duration. My Arca titron is similar but it gives a 80+% crit chance bonus with it.) and out damaged and outkilled all of them. I did go down a few times and died twice though. Furthest i’ve gone there Solo was near 55 minutes and that’s with no primed mods or arcanes on Valkyr Prime (in this account). I need to get Primed flow, Primed Continuity, and Primed Fury again for this account so my Valkyr build become as good as it used to be. Already got primed mods for Melee weapons. Enemies in my old account was at lvl 180 - near 190 and my best run with this account was at 130 - 140+. Edited June 2, 2018 by VPrime96 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 On 2018-06-01 at 3:23 PM, NoLazyShadow said: Let me tell you a little secret: Valkyr is living paradox. She is nerfed to the ground. Forgoten for YEARS. She need rerork more that anyone..but no one. Even. Care. Even DE dont give a #*!% about her situation. I tried to ask them questions, but its no use I don't know man. I've played many frames, and while some have more powerful skills, I always end up back on bitey cat prime. With over 2000 armor, plus the buff from warcry and the longevity of eternal war, it takes a lot to hurt me. A lot. Add the life steal link from the hunter set to my damage primed kavat, and what damage I do receive is almost instantly healed. While the melee damage I do with warcry heals the cat. And then I can pull out my hysteria any time I need healing or my cat gets downed. Then the zip line I can use for mobility which is my prime use for it.... If they would allow you to hold the thing to start an aiming pose I might use it in combat more but seriously why, I'd rather be pulled towards my enemy and bowl into them with a finisher attack of my equipped melee. Then there's the paralyze which grants a guaranteed crit which triggers berserker wonderfully even on low crit weapons. Kitty Prime may not be the flashiest of the frames, but when it comes to an indomitable force of melee combat, nothing else in the game comes close... "Sir! - What is it?! Can you not see I am busy? - Yes..sir. But... There appears to be a very... Very angry cat in engineering... We're getting messages that it appears to be bullet proof... And it is coming this way... - Mother of god... BATTLE STATIONS!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Onyx Schnee Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 9 hours ago, (PS4)black_viper21 said: .play. yes, lets call it that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--GZ--Cegorach Posted June 3, 2018 Author Share Posted June 3, 2018 (edited) Only counter-arguments I read here, about why she should not be updated to current meta, are - "she is fine, cos she can spin to win"..................... No really guys ? Are you seriously ? Yes her WC+Zaw can go over 600k crit with x1.5 CM (while her Hysteria can go just up to 500k with x3+ CM maximum, also with Zaw you can go up to 8m 360° Radius and with Hysteria 4m 180° max...). Also using Hysteria for Heal is pointless, maybe just for players who did not path Neptune yet, cos with Operator + OpArcane you can Heal 100% Health just in 0.5sec, while Hysteria cast time is 3 times longer, also can be deactivated and can be silenced.... So, using Hysteria is just Fun for the beginning, but for players who are used to Valkyr, but for practical effectiveness it's already outdated... Also over 150+ its cast time is insta Rip. Nyx Ult is much more useful in compare to that, have Insta Cast and do not have Suicide mechanics... Also enemies can suck Energy under her Hysteria ,whyle Hysteria itself sucks x3 Energy after couple of seconds... And if Null spawn on you head = Rip, cos at spawn time Null is invincible and on high ranks under Healer buff he is almost invincible and can't be CCed... Also, do you like WC mechanics ? Just use skill once and Ctrl+MLB continuously millions of time ? As minimum - IT'S BORING, for a long run.... Also her Warcry have paradoxes - 1. Team Buff wich can't be used to buff players who did not get buff. 2. Slow which can't be casted to Slow enemies... Skill No3... Why the fk it even exists ? Even with augment it's just a press for Fun skill and do not have real usage in mass combat, especially if you go over 120+ level... Also it have so slow Cast time and very short effect duration, even with Nat Talent... Skill No1... Now is good just to do 2 things - 1. Parkour. 2. Troll your Teammates... And whole that counter-arguments sound like - << MK1 with proper build can kill enemies in Sortie, so MK1 is a good weapon >> Whole her gameplay now is - Start > press 2 > Ctrl+MLB 12354616494654687961321364 times > If you have low health = press 5, Ctrl+Spacebar, press 5 = or press 4 and Ctrl+Spacebar 12365134 times, then or press 4, or wait when you will go out of energy, or enemy will deactivate your Hysteria > then again, press 2 > Ctrl+MLB(or E by default) 16216549846131213646165879 times... Yea, she is fine... If you say so.... Also most of that stupid Counter-"argument" players are acting like someone is asking to make her OP or to Nerf her more... We all know, that Valk is a great concept, but very Outdated concept, have paradoxes and with with modern mechanics half of her skills are just pointless to use (most and all are different thing) and some of her mechanics are or broken or boring... I personally want Valk to be a normal pick, but now I see Ivara, Vauban and Titania in Exterminate, than Valkyr... Even is serious Survival runs people leave if someone tries to take Valkyr, cos her maximum is 20 min Axi and in Team play she is absolute 0... And, if you remember Warframe is Multiplayer/Co-op game and not Single Player game... So, before posting something like - "She is fine and should not be updated!!!" - just answer on my questions then - 1. Will you take Valkyr over another frame for Axi Surv 60+ minute run and who you will replace then ? 2. With good mods MK1 BO, MK1 Braton and MK1 Kunai can kill enemies even in Elite Onslaught, so will you take MK1 BO, MK1 Braton And MK1 Kunai for EO or Axi 60min+ farm then ? So better think, how to improve her and do not do not get stuck on current state, cos just in some updates she will be even more dated... She should not be OP, but she should not be Boring too and definitely should be updated, not remastered, cos her concept is nice. Sorry for my bad English. Edited June 3, 2018 by --GZ--Cegorach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPrime96 Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 4 minutes ago, --GZ--Cegorach said: Only counter-arguments I read here, about why she should not be updated to current meta, are - "she is fine, cos she can spin to win"..................... No really guys ? Are you seriously ? Yes her WC+Zaw can go over 600k crit with x1.5 CM (while her Hysteria can go just up to 500k with x3+ CM maximum, also with Zaw you can go up to 8m 360° Radius and with Hysteria 4m 180° max...). Also using Hysteria for Heal is pointless, maybe just for players who did not path Neptune yet, cos with Operator + OpArcane you can Heal 100% Health just in 0.5sec, why Hysteria cast time is 3 times longer, also can be deactivated and can't be silenced.... So, using Hysteria is just Fun for the beginning, but for players who are used to Valkyr, but for practical effectiveness it's already outdated... Also over 150+ its cast time is insta Rip. Sounds like you don't use Vitality or Steel Fiber on Valkyr. Operator is not neeeded when playing with Valkyr even when you reach 150+, not needed at all. If you need it, then Valkyr is not your frame. Hysteria have more than just heal. Her Invincibility also counters the biggest issue with Warframe's Armor: Fall off. High level enemies laughs at Warframe's Armor so you need something to counter it. Invincibility, Health regen, Life steal, DR. The only thing I can agree with you is the Cast time. That's where Valkyr, Rhino, Nidus, Inaros can deal with so much punishment compare to other frames which is just Armor. From experience, Mobility with Valkyr is needed when you are meleeing enemies near 150. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--GZ--Cegorach Posted June 3, 2018 Author Share Posted June 3, 2018 (edited) 39 minutes ago, VPrime96 said: Sounds like you don't use Vitality or Steel Fiber on Valkyr. Operator is not neeeded when playing with Valkyr even when you reach 150+, not needed at all. If you need it, then Valkyr is not your frame. Hysteria have more than just heal. Her Invincibility also counters the biggest issue with Warframe's Armor: Fall off. High level enemies laughs at Warframe's Armor so you need something to counter it. Invincibility, Health regen, Life steal, DR. The only thing I can agree with you is the Cast time. That's where Valkyr, Rhino, Nidus, Inaros can deal with so much punishment compare to other frames which is just Armor. From experience, Mobility with Valkyr is needed when you are meleeing enemies near 150. I do not need Operator to heal, but then you say that Hysteria have heal... you're contradicting yourself... So, once again, cos you just ignoring everything and continue to speculate and take words out of context - Why I need to use Hysteria when - WC+My Zaw go over 600k Crit with x1.5 CM in 8 meter 360°, when Hysteria with WC can go just up to 500k Crit with x3 CM in 4 meter 180° maximum ? And why I need to use Hysteria for heal, when with Operator I can heal 100% HP in 0.5 seconds, when Hysteria's just cast time is 3 times longer ? Especially when Hysteria can't be casted everywhere (just example for 150level+ if Null+Healer+Healer+Null spawned on your head) ? Also when enemies can suck Energy under Hysteria effect, so you may stay OOE in couple of second ? And why I will spend 1.5 seconds on Hysteria with Nat Talent, when without wasted Mod slot I can use Operator with Instacast (0.2 sec, tbh) ? Just cos you said so ? O.o Also Valk is my most played frame and I spend over 500h just on her since from OBT... And in one of the previous post I said, let's go Duo to EO, you take Valkyr and I will take another frame and let's see how long you will stay there and how effective you will be... Or just do Axi Survival 150 level+ video then, cos unlike you I'm playing up to 300 level and trying different frames, so, show me your Invincible build which will make her more valuable frame, than any other DPS or Tank (She is definitely not a CC, not a Caster, not a Pusher and not a Support, so only Tank and DPS slots left, so who will she replace in her niche ? Titania ? OK, but Titania also require Rework (also DE said that she will be revisited)...). Also Nidus, Inaros and Rhino can go over 300 level, not easily, but can... And GL Meleeing Eximus Corrupted Heavy Gunners and Bombards under Nulls+Ancient Healers+Eximus Ancient Healers buffs, especially with Hysteria in 150 Neo or Axi... (and on 150+ it's quite common enemy set there.) EDIT: and still can't understand, why I need whole this HP regens and LSs, when just by pressing 5 I can Full my HP in 0.5 second ... So yes, whole this comments sound like - "MK1 BO can kill enemies in Sortie and in EO, so MK1 is a good weapon..." No, it's a newbie/starter weapon and suck for higher levels. So or we should agree that Valkyr is a Newbie/Starter frame, which is OK just for low level missions, she should be given as a starter frame then and we need MR based Frames with enemy level gradation like Weapons are nowadays, or if Warframes do not have level gradations, then she needs to be updated for new mechanics and new s.c. "Meta". But in anyway - her Paradoxes should be fixed... Edited June 3, 2018 by --GZ--Cegorach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPrime96 Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 Melee Rework is coming soon so Maiming Strike is soon going to be a dead meme since the Combo Damage Multiplier is going to affect only Heavy Attacks and the Combo counter itself is going to build up faster too so the amount of damage we would be doing with Melee weapons would be faster but a lot lower than right now. So we would see how Valkyr is when the Slide Crit meta gets changed after Melee 3.0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Knight Raime Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 2 hours ago, --GZ--Cegorach said: Only counter-arguments I read here, about why she should not be updated to current meta, are - "she is fine, cos she can spin to win"..................... No really guys ? Are you seriously ? Yes her WC+Zaw can go over 600k crit with x1.5 CM (while her Hysteria can go just up to 500k with x3+ CM maximum, also with Zaw you can go up to 8m 360° Radius and with Hysteria 4m 180° max...). Also using Hysteria for Heal is pointless, maybe just for players who did not path Neptune yet, cos with Operator + OpArcane you can Heal 100% Health just in 0.5sec, while Hysteria cast time is 3 times longer, also can be deactivated and can be silenced.... So, using Hysteria is just Fun for the beginning, but for players who are used to Valkyr, but for practical effectiveness it's already outdated... Also over 150+ its cast time is insta Rip. Nyx Ult is much more useful in compare to that, have Insta Cast and do not have Suicide mechanics... Also enemies can suck Energy under her Hysteria ,whyle Hysteria itself sucks x3 Energy after couple of seconds... And if Null spawn on you head = Rip, cos at spawn time Null is invincible and on high ranks under Healer buff he is almost invincible and can't be CCed... Also, do you like WC mechanics ? Just use skill once and Ctrl+MLB continuously millions of time ? As minimum - IT'S BORING, for a long run.... Also her Warcry have paradoxes - 1. Team Buff wich can't be used to buff players who did not get buff. 2. Slow which can't be casted to Slow enemies... Skill No3... Why the fk it even exists ? Even with augment it's just a press for Fun skill and do not have real usage in mass combat, especially if you go over 120+ level... Also it have so slow Cast time and very short effect duration, even with Nat Talent... Skill No1... Now is good just to do 2 things - 1. Parkour. 2. Troll your Teammates... And whole that counter-arguments sound like - << MK1 with proper build can kill enemies in Sortie, so MK1 is a good weapon >> Whole her gameplay now is - Start > press 2 > Ctrl+MLB 12354616494654687961321364 times > If you have low health = press 5, Ctrl+Spacebar, press 5 = or press 4 and Ctrl+Spacebar 12365134 times, then or press 4, or wait when you will go out of energy, or enemy will deactivate your Hysteria > then again, press 2 > Ctrl+MLB(or E by default) 16216549846131213646165879 times... Yea, she is fine... If you say so.... Also most of that stupid Counter-"argument" players are acting like someone is asking to make her OP or to Nerf her more... We all know, that Valk is a great concept, but very Outdated concept, have paradoxes and with with modern mechanics half of her skills are just pointless to use (most and all are different thing) and some of her mechanics are or broken or boring... I personally want Valk to be a normal pick, but now I see Ivara, Vauban and Titania in Exterminate, than Valkyr... Even is serious Survival runs people leave if someone tries to take Valkyr, cos her maximum is 20 min Axi and in Team play she is absolute 0... And, if you remember Warframe is Multiplayer/Co-op game and not Single Player game... So, before posting something like - "She is fine and should not be updated!!!" - just answer on my questions then - 1. Will you take Valkyr over another frame for Axi Surv 60+ minute run and who you will replace then ? 2. With good mods MK1 BO, MK1 Braton and MK1 Kunai can kill enemies even in Elite Onslaught, so will you take MK1 BO, MK1 Braton And MK1 Kunai for EO or Axi 60min+ farm then ? So better think, how to improve her and do not do not get stuck on current state, cos just in some updates she will be even more dated... She should not be OP, but she should not be Boring too and definitely should be updated, not remastered, cos her concept is nice. Sorry for my bad English. K so i've spent 5 minutes trying to separate that first glump of words with double return to split it but it's being annoying. Not everyone has that arcane and unless you're someone that runs a group hunting eidalons is a difficult task to do. And regardless of that just because you can get healing from other sources doesn't mean healing from everything else is pointless. By that logic since trinity exists energy pads are pointless. Perhaps the person doesn't have the arcane. perhaps someone doesn't have life strike on their current melee weapon when playing valk. etc. Nyx ult isn't more useful because enemies are often outside of it's AOE when she releases it. And since you can't do anything in nyx's ult being invincible for the sake of it isn't beneficial. Hysteria's ult is more practical and can actually kill things. Also bringing up energy drain in that context is pointless when said units effect all other warframes equally. All you're doing is listing the downsides to an insanely strong ability. Tons of other frames spam abilities. Pointing out the spam in one in this context is also pointless. And if valk is boring to you that's fine. Doesn't make it an actual problem though. Just mean's she's not your frame. Warcry isn't an exception here. Not every ability can be recasted during it's duration to effect more allies/enemies. You don't even need to build for a lot of range to nab your allies in a warcry build. And as i've mentioned in my first reply to this thread her slow is not a main point in the ability. It only exists to give her breathing room when she first activates it. She doesn't need continual breathing room via slow because a properly built warcry build gives you enough EHP to tank up to level 100 enemies easily with no worry about duration of the ability either. Further more Valkyr doesn't struggle to reach her enemies. Nor does she need the slow for survivability beyond the initial cast. So not only is it not a point of focus on the ability but having constant access to slow isn't beneficial for her. No paradox. Just a made up issue by yourself. You clearly have never used prolonged paralysis as a build if you think it doesn't help with mass combat. If you grab high strength and as much range as you can you can pull an entire room to your feet for ground finishers. and this can be spammed so they stay off their feet. Without the augment it serves to take down a high value target that you didn't kill in 1-2 hits. As it opens the enemy to a finisher. Valk is and always has been a single target frame. Pointing out that she doesn't generally have "mass aoe" is not an issue when that's not her design. Cast time and duration isn't a problem because you have the EHP to tank with a good warcry setup. and you can spam the thing cheaply even with negative efficiency. Next few sentences just seems to reinforce that she's not the frame for you since you keep attacking how she plays. She doesn't need to change because you don't enjoy her. Change for the sake of change is now how DE works. And then the sentences after that is just you repeating yourself. None of her abilities are broken. Nothing you've mentioned makes her outdated. And boring is not a frame issue. That's a you issue. Valk can absolutely go longer than 20 minutes in an axi survival. You clearly don't have a good build. To answer your questions: 1) I take who ever I want to take when I feel like doing an endurance run. I don't run endurance runs with other people. And this question is pointless anyway since DE doesn't balance for endurance runs. Everyone chooses to hop out at 20 minutes not because going beyond is difficult. But rather it's just easier to start over since you're back in the first rotation. Simply put anything you happen to notice beyond 20 minutes is irrelevant. because DE doesn't look nor care for beyond that point. And they likely never will. 2) I take what I feel like using. Again. nothing beyond 20 minutes matters. You seem fixated on needing a reason to take her somewhere. That reason should be because you want to. If you only play the game based upon what's best used in that situation that's your hang up and not the games. It's been a very long time since any content has required you to bring the best gear in the game. DE themselves has specifically set out to make sure you can play how you want and where you want with what you want. Player power and survivability has increased drastically. So the need for the best isn't there. This entire thread really just boils down to "I don't like how Valk currently plays" and you scrapping the bottom of a barrel with excuses to try and support your feelings that she needs to change. When she doesn't. She's not buggy. She doesn't have any balance issues. She doesn't make any content more of a joke than any other frame can. And she isn't underpowered because she can go into any content and do it just fine. Her entire kit works and works well. I have no issue with her being updated if DE should feel that is something to happen at some point. But no one has ever given a really decent reason for her to be changed. It's all based on people wanting her to be different for the sake of being different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Onyx Schnee Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 8 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said: This entire thread really just boils down to "I don't like how Valk currently plays" and you scrapping the bottom of a barrel with excuses to try and support your feelings that she needs to change. When she doesn't. She's not buggy. She doesn't have any balance issues. She doesn't make any content more of a joke than any other frame can. And she isn't underpowered because she can go into any content and do it just fine. Her entire kit works and works well. I have no issue with her being updated if DE should feel that is something to happen at some point. But no one has ever given a really decent reason for her to be changed. It's all based on people wanting her to be different for the sake of being different. you just summed up EVERY single "Valkyr nerf" thread in one post. it has nothing to do with her "god mode" they just want her changed for the sake of being different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Knight Raime Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 1 hour ago, (XB1)Orcus Imperium said: you just summed up EVERY single "Valkyr nerf" thread in one post. it has nothing to do with her "god mode" they just want her changed for the sake of being different. Eh. I used to have a handful of people I constantly butted heads with about their distaste of invincibility on principal rather than for any practical/in game reasons. Essentially it boiled down to "I don't like this mechanic it should be gone" with nothing to support the idea that invincibility can't be used in anyway in game in a healthy manner. But yeah. People just don't dig the way she plays and wants something else. Even if DE changed her for the sake of change i'd accept it. Because it's their game and they tend to have decent reasoning. You just probably won't catch me agreeing with someone on the forums wanting to do the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 I will admit I really wish they'd get rid of the "pull enemy to you" concept... I was so excited about that when I heard about her riplines when I first started looking at getting her.... Sigh. At least on ps4 it doesn't work right, it either kinda "pulls them over on their butt" or shoots them off to who knows where... Imagine instead this... You see an enemy at a distance, rallying, preparing to open fire on you and your allies...... You let fly your rip cord with the ease of familiarity, it sails through the air like a hornet on a mission, striking into your target with the viciousness of your intent....your ripline snaps, yanking you off your feet, flying with claws or blades ready, as you perform a slow somersault, you collide with your target not face first, but by driving your heals or clawed toes into the back or chest of your enemy, knocking them from their feet, and slide on them like a wake board across a pool of blood... All enemies unfortunate to be caught behind your enemy as you torpedo into them knocked from their feet as your target flies by under your momentum, not giving your target even a second to regain their senses, you launch directly into a melee finisher attack, slashing or clawing or pounding them into the ground, then you rise from your ruined foe, look over your shoulder at the downed warrior's comrades as they clamber to rise to their feet, you feel your self grin with the lust of battle, and fall upon them, blades and claws flashing as blood splatters the walls..... Yes... That feels like what ripline should be... None of this shooting things off into who knows where... paralyze could use some work, maybe using the ability while warcry is active applies the effect of warcry to near by allies? I am hesitant to see hysteria moddified because rather it is "great", for right now it works.. I think I might prefer that it cast faster though as the number of times ive died waiting for that thing to finish casting... "Oh my health has dropped to 49% let me just cast hysteria and... Oh look I'm dead before the skill could trigger..." well that's just me being stupid for not trying to run for cover... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeckChairVonBananaCamel Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 well id like to have her paralysis changed in some way to be useful in hysteria... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPrime96 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 If DE would change Valkyr, i can see Ripline - Paralysis getting changed. I guess a faster cast time for Hysteria too. Removing Invincibility from Hysteria is a big no though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leqesai Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 On 2018-06-01 at 7:30 PM, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said: I can still clear sorties with Valkyr. Can’t say the same for other frames. What frames can't you clear sorties with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)CoolD2108 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 You forgot to mention her Armor and Warcry's armor buff that's pointless if you're using Hysteria for it's Invulnerability. Her whole kit is nothing but one giant Paradox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--GZ--Cegorach Posted June 5, 2018 Author Share Posted June 5, 2018 (edited) On 2018-06-03 at 11:06 PM, (XB1)Knight Raime said: K so i've spent 5 minutes trying to separate that first glump of words with double return to split it but it's being annoying. Not everyone has that arcane and unless you're someone that runs a group hunting eidalons is a difficult task to do. And regardless of that just because you can get healing from other sources doesn't mean healing from everything else is pointless. By that logic since trinity exists energy pads are pointless. Perhaps the person doesn't have the arcane. perhaps someone doesn't have life strike on their current melee weapon when playing valk. etc. Nyx ult isn't more useful because enemies are often outside of it's AOE when she releases it. And since you can't do anything in nyx's ult being invincible for the sake of it isn't beneficial. Hysteria's ult is more practical and can actually kill things. Also bringing up energy drain in that context is pointless when said units effect all other warframes equally. All you're doing is listing the downsides to an insanely strong ability. Tons of other frames spam abilities. Pointing out the spam in one in this context is also pointless. And if valk is boring to you that's fine. Doesn't make it an actual problem though. Just mean's she's not your frame. Warcry isn't an exception here. Not every ability can be recasted during it's duration to effect more allies/enemies. You don't even need to build for a lot of range to nab your allies in a warcry build. And as i've mentioned in my first reply to this thread her slow is not a main point in the ability. It only exists to give her breathing room when she first activates it. She doesn't need continual breathing room via slow because a properly built warcry build gives you enough EHP to tank up to level 100 enemies easily with no worry about duration of the ability either. Further more Valkyr doesn't struggle to reach her enemies. Nor does she need the slow for survivability beyond the initial cast. So not only is it not a point of focus on the ability but having constant access to slow isn't beneficial for her. No paradox. Just a made up issue by yourself. You clearly have never used prolonged paralysis as a build if you think it doesn't help with mass combat. If you grab high strength and as much range as you can you can pull an entire room to your feet for ground finishers. and this can be spammed so they stay off their feet. Without the augment it serves to take down a high value target that you didn't kill in 1-2 hits. As it opens the enemy to a finisher. Valk is and always has been a single target frame. Pointing out that she doesn't generally have "mass aoe" is not an issue when that's not her design. Cast time and duration isn't a problem because you have the EHP to tank with a good warcry setup. and you can spam the thing cheaply even with negative efficiency. Next few sentences just seems to reinforce that she's not the frame for you since you keep attacking how she plays. She doesn't need to change because you don't enjoy her. Change for the sake of change is now how DE works. And then the sentences after that is just you repeating yourself. None of her abilities are broken. Nothing you've mentioned makes her outdated. And boring is not a frame issue. That's a you issue. Valk can absolutely go longer than 20 minutes in an axi survival. You clearly don't have a good build. To answer your questions: 1) I take who ever I want to take when I feel like doing an endurance run. I don't run endurance runs with other people. And this question is pointless anyway since DE doesn't balance for endurance runs. Everyone chooses to hop out at 20 minutes not because going beyond is difficult. But rather it's just easier to start over since you're back in the first rotation. Simply put anything you happen to notice beyond 20 minutes is irrelevant. because DE doesn't look nor care for beyond that point. And they likely never will. 2) I take what I feel like using. Again. nothing beyond 20 minutes matters. You seem fixated on needing a reason to take her somewhere. That reason should be because you want to. If you only play the game based upon what's best used in that situation that's your hang up and not the games. It's been a very long time since any content has required you to bring the best gear in the game. DE themselves has specifically set out to make sure you can play how you want and where you want with what you want. Player power and survivability has increased drastically. So the need for the best isn't there. This entire thread really just boils down to "I don't like how Valk currently plays" and you scrapping the bottom of a barrel with excuses to try and support your feelings that she needs to change. When she doesn't. She's not buggy. She doesn't have any balance issues. She doesn't make any content more of a joke than any other frame can. And she isn't underpowered because she can go into any content and do it just fine. Her entire kit works and works well. I have no issue with her being updated if DE should feel that is something to happen at some point. But no one has ever given a really decent reason for her to be changed. It's all based on people wanting her to be different for the sake of being different. What ? Did you even read ? Or you respond on different topic, cos all what you say is out of topic and still I did not see any reasonable argument why her Paradoxes and Pointless mechanics should be fixed and why she should not be updated to new mechanics. Btw, you probably did not played Warframe or played for a very short time, you do not need Arcane to heal your frame, with Arcane you just do not need to cast Operator skills and you can use just 5>5, without you need 5>Ctrl+Spacebar>5... This is it, and you are on full health in less than in 1sec, in both situations, and if you just do not know new mechanics of the game, then it's your problem... So you say, that this paradoxes are good and perfect ? Or Slow that can't be used as Slow is ok ? Or buff, that can't be used to Buff ? Or cast time which is x2 longer than enemies staggered by that skill ? Or her throw enemy into Space Journey ? Or Troll your teammates ability if perfect ? and so on, will not repeat thing millions of times, cos one strange addicted guy can't read.... So, once again - Which of this "Mechanics" are perfect ? Also, if you take Para augment, then you should ignore or other augments, or use two augments and build her in range build, so you are losing lots of effectiveness, also this build is somehow good only under 120 level, also it's absolutely pointless and waste of effectiveness opportunity against Ancient Healer and Eximus Ancient Heal buffs, so once again this is just a build for casual missions and if you do not go over 20, it does not mean that there is no content to do. And still it does not fix her paradoxes... So, whole your comment is out of topic and is full of speculations which do not explain why she should not be updated and why her paradoxes should not fixed... And still did not get any answer on - "So, before posting something like - "She is fine and should not be updated!!!" - just answer on my questions then -1. Will you take Valkyr over another frame for Axi Surv 60+ minute run and who you will replace then ? 2. With good mods MK1 BO, MK1 Braton and MK1 Kunai can kill enemies even in Elite Onslaught, so will you take MK1 BO, MK1 Braton And MK1 Kunai for EO or Axi 60min+ farm then ?So better think, how to improve her and do not do not get stuck on current state, cos just in some updates she will be even more dated... She should not be OP, but she should not be Boring too and definitely should be updated, not remastered, cos her concept is nice." "1) I take who ever I want to take when I feel like doing an endurance run. I don't run endurance runs with other people. And this question is pointless anyway since DE doesn't balance for endurance runs. Everyone chooses to hop out at 20 minutes not because going beyond is difficult. But rather it's just easier to start over since you're back in the first rotation. Simply put anything you happen to notice beyond 20 minutes is irrelevant. because DE doesn't look nor care for beyond that point. And they likely never will." < this is not answer on the question, if there are casual players who do not do serious runs, it does not mean, that no one does them. Also it sound like - "I do not do Mythic Raids in WoW, so Blizzard should not give a fk about Mythics Raids then" < Stupid, no ? Same is your answer. Also > "Everyone chooses to hop out at 20 minutes not because going beyond is difficult. But rather it's just easier to start over since you're back in the first rotation." 1. Not everyone, you can even find many videos about Axi 3h. 2. If DS is hard for someone, then DS devs should not fix the game if it have problems and paradoxes, cos big number of players find easier to do not play it at all ? O.o 3. It's not easier to start over when time is expired and you are in Axi mission... You just can't start over, and for players who spend over 2k hours in game doing just Exterminations over and over again is boring... "2) I take what I feel like using. Again. nothing beyond 20 minutes matters." < Once again, most idiotic answer I ever hear, it's can't be even taken as argument. Or you want to say, that if I will not play anything over Earth, then DE should not care about content and Frame balance for anything over Earth ? Whut ? If you are casual, it does not mean, that everyone should be, also Any Frame, repeating -ANY- Frame, but Valkyr, Wu, Titania and Ivara can go over 200 level+... And one more strangest answer, when player is pointing that he plays Solo in Multiplayer Online game or does not go over specific casual level on enemies, then anything beyond that content should not be ever cared, balanced, updated... atc... especially when topic is about paradoxical mechanics which you avoid to even talk about... Or you want to say - If, for example, I play solo in WoW, then I should go to WoW forums and say that for example Monk in Mythic Raids work fine if I find that players suggesting some aspect for that content and find some mechanics which require fixes ? Really ? And you really want ppl to take you seriously ? Or, maybe in Bug-forums too, I should say that everything is fine if Bug does not affects me, or if I do not go to content where this bug may appear ? Do you even understand how stupid this is ? ...................... Also, AXI Surv 20v can be done even with MK1 weapons, so will you take MK1 weapon set over Prime weapon set ? Or will this fact, that MK1 weapons can do Sortie, AXI 20, EO means, that MK1 is a good and fine weapon to do new high/top tier content ? So, as I said in previous comment - "So or we should agree that Valkyr is a Newbie/Starter frame, which is OK just for low level missions and she should be given as a starter frame then and we need MR based Frames with enemy level gradation like Weapons are nowadays, or if Warframes do not have level gradations, then she needs to be updated for new mechanics and new s.c. "Meta". But in anyway - her Paradoxes should be fixed..." So, answer me, without cheap speculations and without taking words out of context - Why Valkyr should not be updated to new meta and new mechanics and why her paradoxes should not fixed ? Any reasonable and not speculative answer please, we are not in Congress here... Or you want to say, that if BIG-YOU do not play anything over Mercuri, no one should then too and no fixes should be provided there ? P.S. Do we talk about Nyx here ? Btw Nyx do not die if her Ult was deactivated, enemies do not suck energy when Nyx Ult is active, also her Ult does not make her other mechanics pointless (unlike mechanics which already were pointless).... So let's talk about Nyx in "Nyx Suggestion" topics. Same way you can say something like - "Wu requires update, so that's the reason why Valkyr should not be fixed and updated".... C'mon man, Don't you realize that this is nonsense, but not an argument about why she should not be updated ? Edited June 5, 2018 by --GZ--Cegorach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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