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DeMonkey

Primal Fury 2.0

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I was deliberating over posting this in Warframes and Abilities feedback instead of Weapons, but given the Iron Staff is soon to be it's own unique weapon I thought I'd go for here.

I know awareness has been shown of the fact that attack speed can screw combos over, most noticeably with Primal Fury, however since awareness has been shown I assume there'll be a fix and I won't be factoring it in.

Falling Oak Buster:

No changes to this aside from the last attack, which I'll touch on with the next combo.

Rolling Boulder Rush:

Quite simply I'd like for Exodia Hunt to be incorporated into the ability, with some tweaks.

One of the key components of a melee character in many games is mobility, the ability to get in close and actually deal damage. Wukong has some of the worst mobility in the game.

Instead of going to them then, bring them to Wukong.

The way this would work is simple, slam waves would cause enemies standing up to ragdoll. Slam waves that hit ragdolled enemies draws them closer. Slam waves will be affected by the staffs current size, if the staff is longer then the wave goes further.

The Slam wave's visual is no longer energy based from the weapon, but visible rippling on the floor itself. (If possible).

Spinning Crash Technique:

This combo is far too long, by the time you're leaping everything is dead. 

To that end the combo should be reversed, you initiate with a leap forward, enemies you hit along the way are dragged with you, you then spin around a couple of times dealing damage to everything around. The spin range is not only affected by staff length, but a jet of fire comes out each end dealing your weapon damage as pure heat damage and a guaranteed proc. This would extend the range slightly further than the staffs length.

This way you can actually leap on demand, rather than at the end of a slow combo, and thus give Wukong some mobility.

Cyclone Lightning Strike:

I don't get to pull this one off much because of the aforementioned issue, however it certainly looks cool.

Once again though, it's perhaps a bit too long to actually pull off the full combo, the final attack is the best and the enemy likely won't be standing.

Regardless, the addition I propose to this combo is an extension of the last attack, the one where you throw the staff in such a way that it spins and comes back to you.

Have that, but have it travel further whilst spitting out lightning at enemies, damaging and chaining off enemies. The staff will travel until it hits a wall/enemy or it's gone 20m. It will then spin there for 10 seconds (affected by duration). Think Zenistar, but more badass.

In the meantime you'll draw your Primary/Secondary weapon until the timer is up or is manually cancelled by pressing 4, at which point it's returned to you (without a draw animation) combo counter intact.

Final Notes:

Each of these combos would now have a unique effect, Wukong would have greater versatility and most importantly you get his elemental magic theme in there. I mean, his combo names are based on his elemental magic, it's only right to actually include elemental magic.

Yes, I have made another Wukong thread. Surprise!

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All Hail Da Monkey King!!!  May these suggestions make him more fun to use for everyone.  

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3 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

May these suggestions make him more fun to use for everyone

But not toooooo much fun, because then everyone will like him and I won't be special. :clem:

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20 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

But not toooooo much fun, because then everyone will like him and I won't be special. :clem:

Don't worry about that too much.  There will still be people like me who favor female frames.  I'm hoping that DE will not only consider your suggestions, but also give him a deluxe skin that I like.  😁 

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3 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

I'm hoping that DE will not only consider your suggestions, but also give him a deluxe skin that I like.  😁 

That's the dream my dude, that is the dream.

How many suggestions have I made for Wukong now? I reckon they should just hire me to rework him :wink:

Kidding, ofc. 

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I’m just trying to remember from the old episodic adventures of the original Mandarin Saiyuki if Wukong was able to manipulate the elements. 🤔🧐

Otherwise, @DeMonkey I’m totally in love with seeing your suggestions in buffing Primal Fury’s stance combos. It really needs another look over, and I would hate to see the synergy with it and Exodia Hunt being removed due to the Exalted Weapon build that’s going to be implemented.

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13 minutes ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

I'm just trying to remember from the old episodic adventures of the original Mandarin Saiyuki if Wukong was able to manipulate the elements

I'm unsure entirely when he's supposed to have gotten them, but I recall reading about it online. Smite has a skin based on it as well, each animal you transform into is another element. Really cool.

13 minutes ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

Otherwise, @DeMonkey I’m totally in love with seeing your suggestions in buffing Primal Fury’s stance combos. It really needs another look over, and I would hate to see the synergy with it and Exodia Hunt being removed due to the Exalted Weapon build that’s going to be implemented

I appreciate it. And yeah, personally I've been using Force most of the time for the extra procs it used to give, but I'm currently working on trying to get a max Hunt before the change. Only thing I don't like is the forced finishers, so I'm hoping that by wording my version as more of a ragdoll sort of thing we wouldn't have to deal with that. I have Naramon for finishers.

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@(PS4)Lei-Lei_23 grabbed an image of the Smite skin I previously mentioned, wholly off topic but as the thread owner I'll give myself permission.

SunWukong_Sun-Wu-Xing_155648.jpg

The Eagle is air, the Tiger is fire, there's an Ox transformation as well that's water.

Wukong himself represents Earth, as you can see from geode-esque hands and staff. Kinda fitting for a monkey born of stone.

Regardless, off topic but thought you might find it cool. :smile:

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10 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

@(PS4)Lei-Lei_23 grabbed an image of the Smite skin I previously mentioned, wholly off topic but as the thread owner I'll give myself permission.

SunWukong_Sun-Wu-Xing_155648.jpg

The Eagle is air, the Tiger is fire, there's an Ox transformation as well that's water.

Wukong himself represents Earth, as you can see from geode-esque hands and staff. Kinda fitting for a monkey born of stone.

Regardless, off topic but thought you might find it cool. :smile:

👌🏻

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Th year is 2049. Warframe has miraculously outlasted every other video game to date. There are 457 warframes. Wukong has not received a single change since the removal of Nukong. Legends say that to this day DeMonkey can still be found planning a rework that DE will ultimately turn a blind eye to in favor of the Saryn 58.0 rework.

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Just now, MickThejaguar said:

The year is 2049. Warframe has miraculously outlasted every other video game to date. There are 457 warframes. Wukong has not received a single change since the removal of Nukong. Legends say that to this day DeMonkey can still be found planning a rework that DE will ultimately turn a blind eye to in favor of the Saryn 58.0 rework.

Sounds like a very real possibility :crylaugh:

Titania and Vauban are up next right? Whilst I agree that they each need help, NEITHER OF THEM ARE WUKONG!

REEEEEEEEEEEE!

Never fear though, I easily have 30 years worth of ideas in me. After 10 years I can probably just reuse ideas and nobody will notice :wink:

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I would definitely like to see a bit more spice added to the staff. Excalibur's range bonus and infinite punch through takes a little bit of momentum out of Wukong's staff growing mechanic (especially since Excalibur starts out with it), of course there are some other differences. 

IIRC

Excalibur has a much higher finisher bonus, a cheap blind built in, slash, infinite punch through, long range (fall off damage iirc), low crit, low status (although chromatic augment can change that)

Wukong has normal/decent finisher bonus, no bonus mechanic outside of range growth, short range (medium range once built up, but even for "regular" melee category there are some silly long range weapons that outreach), decent crit, decent status.

Iron staff is one of the fun abilities with Wukong but imo in comparison I definitely think not only is this suggestion good for flavor but also I think Iron Staff needs a little bit of a love hug. It's not awful but when they touch/adjust Wukong as a whole (which they really should be doing) this ability getting a bit of eidolon breath could be good!

(At least, imo, two reasons why devs should consider this on top of other changes to Wukong)

1. The staff's gimmick is out gimmicked by excalibur's infinite punch through / high range (this doesn't mean the staff should hit farther, just a note that "maybe we need more spice on this ability"). It would be nice if a unique skill's gimmick was.. /it's/ gimmick (wow I've said that word a lot now lol) and so doing something else on top of that for Iron Staff would make it unique in a good way. In addition of that the radial blind built into the blade (also Exali's number 2) combo's amazingly well into the much higher finisher damage (and utility), meanwhile Wukong 3 + finisher damage is a bit eh with the animation transitions stacking onto a lower finisher damage in the first place (go into cloud form, go out of cloud form, then do less finisher damage lol). Argument here would be cloud form is eh and it would be cool to have more flavor to the staff to set it further from being compared to other energy/exalted tools.

2. Exalted / Energy weapons while shouldn't be on every frame but they should (imo) > weapons within their category (given mods/warframe synergy) outside of niche moments (like some weapons giving you health, stuns, and whatever special your regular weapon is equipped with). Iron Staff isn't a bad weapon but I can imagine many circumstances where "regular melee" > Iron Staff, especially if someone rivens. Including things like normal weapons being able to have a higher mod capacity (due to stance capacity) there is also zaws having exodia on top of the other issues.

Primal Fury stance comments:

I like that there is a new main gimmick in each move (draw in/with) while there is little flares to Wukong's element ability (helps that Wukong has friends that are gods of elements lol). 

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Falling Oak Buster

Rolling Boulder Rush

Sold, I think the drag in on Rolling Boulder Rush would be particularly O.O "awww yusss", since it repeats lol. 

Minor aside suggestion, not out of displeasure but just "could be neat". If the devs didn't do something like you suggested (on my thread) multiple arms on high defiance, perhaps one of these two (probably the first) could have Wukong pull a bit larger Iron Staff down to the ground with multiple arm force. Making the first combo draw in a lot more enemies (radius) meanwhile the second would do more damage while not letting them escape (due to a smaller but multiple draw ins in a row).

Also hard to think of how these combos will change in complexity due to 3.0 (choosing which one to complete for example).. Some "unknown" exists due to 3.0 coming, but ignoring that for now. 

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Spinning Crash Technique:

Cyclone Lightning Strike:

A question, the heat damage - that's coming from the ends is like an ignis taped on to the ends but cooler right? It's not everyone hit by the staff (entire staff damage being converted)? Just wondering because it may mean that the entire move becomes a bit painful when facing high resistance enemies of X type.

For the combos I wont comment too much again but to suggest that the main issue you have with Cyclone may not be a thing anymore, perhaps in that way you can move some of the major suggestions of spinning to the first and keep lightning for the second / different? I do like the suggested changes as is, but I am going to assume with 3.0 melee that combos will be much easier to differentiate.

So assuming the above (that cyclone becomes much easier), I might make some changes so there isn't two thrown abilities or you can correct my misunderstanding. (I understood it as your suggestion was to make Cyclone like Spinning Crash's, the combo that throws out the staff, except one more step where the staff is thrown out instead with zennistar effect). 

The slight change is that Spinning Crash sends out his staff spinning on fire, for a duration, and as you said you can shoot stuff while it's out (I think this way the combos stay farther apart, rather than two staff thrown attack moves). A visual note (not important but could be a nice touch) Wukong sends out a clone (hair of himself) that does the spinning at point, and optionally we could change that visual suggestion into a mechanical one where the clone draws enemy attention into the spinning staff of fiery doom. The issue with the clone drawing attention would be Wukong might have wanted attention still on him for rage energy, could "fix" that by making the clone return energy as if it was taking rage health damage (but that's a lot of text for one combo move lol). Finally though (ignoring or accepting the clone idea), I think if Wukong presses E while his Iron Staff is active (4) he will appear in the air above the spinning staff and crash down into the ground while grabbing the staff (causing a mini "fire eximus" wave). 

So then for Cyclone Lighting I think you could just literally make it as it says lol, imagine the wave attacks from Exalted Blade (Excalibur) except it's lightning waves being emitted in a cyclone of short range around Wukong (so waves of lighting being thrown off in a cyclone and then into a piercing attack forward). I really mean short range cyclone, not literally Exalted Blade long distance, just that waves of lighting come rippling off Wukong (with 100% proc lightning and as your theme it'll also keep drag enemies around). 

 

Question on the other moves, like the charged attack, air slam, wall dash, etc. Any effects for them?

Perhaps a weird mechanic but for the leap into air slamming attack (planting willow) also ignites his eyes and he comes down drawing in enemies, his eyes will be lit for a short duration afterwards where any enemy that has been afflicted by an elemental status proc is also open to a finisher attack (Wukong only, allies cannot utilize this finisher even if his eyes are active). 

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2 minutes ago, bbwb said:

decent status.

Same status by default, 10% on each. Just clarifying.

3 minutes ago, bbwb said:

1. The staff's gimmick is out gimmicked by excalibur's infinite punch through / high range (this doesn't mean the staff should hit farther, just a note that "maybe we need more spice on this ability"). It would be nice if a unique skill's gimmick was.. /it's/ gimmick (wow I've said that word a lot now lol) and so doing something else on top of that for Iron Staff would make it unique in a good way. On top of that the radial blind built into the blade (also Exali's number 2) combo's amazingly well into the much higher finisher damage, meanwhile Wukong 3 + finisher damage is a bit eh with the animation transitions stacking onto a lower finisher damage in the first place (go into cloud form, go out of cloud form, then do less finisher damage lol). Argument here would be cloud form is eh and it would be cool to have more flavor to the staff to set it further from being compared to other energy/exalted tools.

I don't even use the Cloud for Finishers anymore sadly, either Exodia Hunt gives them to me or I use a Naramon Dash. As noted, it's simply not worth the time for what amounts to less.

But I totally agree, as much as I like asking for the staff to be longer or have a higher cap, it still wouldn't be enough. This could of course be greed, but it absolutely needs something to set it apart from other unique weapons.

6 minutes ago, bbwb said:

2. Exalted / Energy weapons while shouldn't be on every frame but they should (imo) > weapons within their category (given mods/warframe synergy) outside of niche moments (like some weapons giving you health, stuns, and whatever special your regular weapon is equipped with). Iron Staff isn't a bad weapon but I can imagine many circumstances where "regular melee" > Iron Staff, especially if someone rivens. Including things like normal weapons being able to have a higher mod capacity (due to stance capacity) there is also zaws having exodia on top of the other issues.

Any melee weapon with a longer range than Primal Fury is, imo, a better weapon. With the current mods that melee can use, Blood Rush, Body Count etc, it's very easy for melee weapons to put out viable damage up to very high levels the same as the staff. The reason then that they become better is that they can hit from further away, and hit more enemies at a time.

Plus there are several melee weapons that have unique features at a level that the staff doesn't. The Vaykor Sydon for example, whilst not ''good'' has a decidedly unique effect in the form of being able to blind enemies for no energy cost.

10 minutes ago, bbwb said:

perhaps one of these two (probably the first) could have Wukong pull a bit larger Iron Staff down to the ground with multiple arm force.

Thoughts on it giving an extra loud SQUEAK when it impacts? :satisfied:

11 minutes ago, bbwb said:

A question, the heat damage - that's coming from the ends is like an ignis taped on to the ends but cooler right? It's not everyone hit by the staff (entire staff damage being converted)? Just wondering because it may mean that the entire move becomes a bit painful when facing high resistance enemies of X type.

That's certainly a fair point, and to answer your question yes I only meant the end bits. I initially thought of having globs of lava come off the end, but a jet of fire would be far more fitting to Warframe as we already have such things in game already.

13 minutes ago, bbwb said:

So assuming the above (that cyclone becomes much easier), I might make some changes so there isn't two thrown abilities or you can correct my misunderstanding. (I understood it as your suggestion was to make Cyclone like Spinning Crash's, the combo that throws out the staff, except one more step where the staff is thrown out instead with zennistar effect). 

You're right, I got them the wrong way around. :awkward:

Okay, so re-read them but pretend I mean the other combo of the two and that I want the names switched over in the stance.

Spinning Crash sounds far more like a ''spin'' followed by a ''leap'' (causing you to crash into enemies).

And Cyclone Lighting Strike sounds like you're smacking someone with something spinning around very fast... like the staff... damn, my entire life is lie.

I particularly like your visual suggestions though, as well the ''appears above spinning staff'' one.

21 minutes ago, bbwb said:

Question on the other moves, like the charged attack, air slam, wall dash, etc. Any effects for them?

Perhaps a weird mechanic but for the leap into air slamming attack (planting willow) also ignites his eyes and he comes down drawing in enemies, his eyes will be lit for a short duration afterwards where any enemy that has been afflicted by an elemental status proc is also open to a finisher attack (Wukong only, allies cannot utilize this finisher even if his eyes are active). 

Having the eyes light up to tie in with finisher attacks is actually fitting, I like it. Perhaps not in this manner but the idea behind it is stellar. It's all about seeing the ''truth'', and one can easily relate ''truth'' to ''weakness'', which is what finishers are all about.

I can't personally think of an effect for wall dashes and such, they're so clunky to do anyway, but as a charged attack I've always liked the idea of just having it be ''Iron jab''. I've been thinking more about it recently, and how much I dislike punting enemies away from me, so I've been wondering and would be interested to hear your thoughts on this.

What if Iron Jab were extended to 50m, got wider over distance (allowing it to hit more enemies) and had a specific ricochet mechanic? I'm thinking along the lines of if you punt an enemy into a wall/ceiling/floor, then it rebounds with enough force that it brings it closer to you. Kinda like Mag's Pull I guess, but requires you to aim them at a solid object. Still costs 25 energy to do ofc, in the same way that Excals radial blind slide attack costs energy.

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Same status by default, 10% on each. Just clarifying.

O.. for some reason I thought it was 25% both status and crit xD. My bad. 25% crit on Staff, 15% on blade. Although another thing to add is that Umbra Exalted Blade also gets Umbra polarities.

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I don't even use the Cloud for Finishers anymore sadly, either Exodia Hunt gives them to me or I use a Naramon Dash. As noted, it's simply not worth the time for what amounts to less.

But I totally agree, as much as I like asking for the staff to be longer or have a higher cap, it still wouldn't be enough. This could of course be greed, but it absolutely needs something to set it apart from other unique weapons.

Yeah lol cloud is.. heh.. 😛 

I'm fairly certain that either the person who is in charge of Wukong doesn't care because the number of players using him is so low it doesn't seem like a use of resources or they had originally said "holy crap Defy is op, so lets be reasonable" but then they've done /a lot/ of things that have made Defy not op these days. Insane DR, defy lite passives, incredible buffs, great reworks, etc etc. 

I'd argue on the first that few play him because he's not OP (unlike even though Nidus being a pain to get he is incredibly well played). And the later.. well it's definitely not true anymore at least and certainly not a point to hold him back on. 

Iron Staff and himself are in solid "...eh.. he's a frame in Warframe, but if you want "x" you could also play this guy instead" positions lol. Balance is always a tough thing to do so I'm not trying to be too rude / rough here but like Rhino VS Nidus or Inaros would be better examples of things were you might argue one is better than the other for Y but all choices are great choices. 

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Any melee weapon with a longer range than Primal Fury is, imo, a better weapon. With the current mods that melee can use, Blood Rush, Body Count etc, it's very easy for melee weapons to put out viable damage up to very high levels the same as the staff. The reason then that they become better is that they can hit from further away, and hit more enemies at a time.

Plus there are several melee weapons that have unique features at a level that the staff doesn't. The Vaykor Sydon for example, whilst not ''good'' has a decidedly unique effect in the form of being able to blind enemies for no energy cost.

Besides these neat effects any other suggestion that combat this for short range weapons? I have little experience with Valkyr but doesn't she have this issue too?

Frame weapons have less total mod capacity since their stance is baked at a lower value than you can go with other weapons. I was considering the idea of a unique forging system for frame weapons to add hard earned base bonuses to ensure that these weapons are considered top 5% weapons. Haven't thought too long but a short example would be a new slot next to stance on frame weapons that is detailed as forge level and on hover has buffs baked in (nothing in the beginning, unrefined). Sacrificing a riven (the market now has better use for trash / veiled rivens lol) into the slot could upgrade it (to a max rank of X). Each rank could provide DE specific buffs that fit that weapon (including unique effects if they want), and at max rank will for at least melee weapons lead to 70 capacity (rather than the 65, frame weapons currently have a tighter capacity than non-frame weapons). 

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Thoughts on it giving an extra loud SQUEAK when it impacts? 

Only if other players can't lower the volume 😄 . haha

Quote

That's certainly a fair point, and to answer your question yes I only meant the end bits. I initially thought of having globs of lava come off the end, but a jet of fire would be far more fitting to Warframe as we already have such things in game already.

Lava would be interesting... Although if it vanished too quickly then it might look funny. Fire would definitely not raise anyone's eyebrows (good and "eh" lol).

Quote

You're right, I got them the wrong way around. 

Haha, I was like "hmm.. I swore the other one had a toss.." and then ran the combos in game and was like ".. they want both then?" lol. 

Quote

Having the eyes light up to tie in with finisher attacks is actually fitting, I like it. Perhaps not in this manner but the idea behind it is stellar. It's all about seeing the ''truth'', and one can easily relate ''truth'' to ''weakness'', which is what finishers are all about.

I was just thinking of something that you could easily avoid if you didn't want to use finishers, sometimes especially with Excalibur's huge radius stun getting accidental finishers is actually annoying lol. Like "omg, just a small breath will kill this guy, I don't need to overkill him by one million points". Slam attacks seem in general done on purpose, meanwhile related to his elemental proc concept that is at 100% would make an interesting /optional/ mechanic if you needed it. Also keeps him selfish, which I prefer (at least pre-Journey Wukong), so he's not opening enemies up to finishers for anyone but himself lol.

The mechanic that starts the eyes just imo should therefore be something easily avoidable without seriously gimping himself, DE being able to balance it fairly well with duration and action (for example if we did the slam attack that's time taken do do that action and how long the eyes burn, meaning you wont be slam finisher-ing weak enemies cause that's a waste of time BUT could be nice to go into when you've got bombard city nearby).However beyond that wouldn't really be important to me (so long as I don't have it on too easily, or feel like I have to fight the game not to do it - like sometimes I do with Excalibur). 

Quote

I can't personally think of an effect for wall dashes and such, they're so clunky to do anyway, but as a charged attack I've always liked the idea of just having it be ''Iron jab''.

I don't have a strong idea right now since as you said they're pretty much like "do you do those.. I don't recall doing those.." lol. But they talked about adding wall running back so that might be an easy thing again.

Quote

I've been thinking more about it recently, and how much I dislike punting enemies away from me, so I've been wondering and would be interested to hear your thoughts on this. What if Iron Jab were extended to 50m, got wider over distance (allowing it to hit more enemies) and had a specific ricochet mechanic? I'm thinking along the lines of if you punt an enemy into a wall/ceiling/floor, then it rebounds with enough force that it brings it closer to you. Kinda like Mag's Pull I guess, but requires you to aim them at a solid object. Still costs 25 energy to do ofc, in the same way that Excals radial blind slide attack costs energy.

Hmm, sounds cool to watch but I just want to warn you that charged attacks will consume the combo bar in 3.0 (as we know so far) so do you mean to say it'll both consume your combo bar and also take energy? I could see that working though, maybe a bit difficult to manage depending on how gentle or aggressive the mechanic is (like room size might make it not good).

What if his charged attack was crazy long range like you said but struck enemies downwards, then lifting the arm closest to the bottom of the staff up (creating a scalene right triangle with the staff ground and himself) and then the staff quickly shrinks raking the ground towards Wukong - dragging enemies back with the staff in the process (extra points to the devs if it creates sparks/dirt clumps being lifted in the air from pressure down, whatever effect makes sense for the tileset).

Then do your idea except on his spin attack, and have it cost just like Exalted Blade (except obviously it's a different attack). So he'd do a spinning attack that turns into a freaking giant baseball bat (in essence) of doom smashing enemies in a large arc in front of Wukong into each other and into the walls, enemies hitting the walls will bounce backwards towards Wukong. 

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13 hours ago, bbwb said:

I'm fairly certain that either the person who is in charge of Wukong doesn't care because the number of players using him is so low it doesn't seem like a use of resources or they had originally said "holy crap Defy is op, so lets be reasonable" but then they've done /a lot/ of things that have made Defy not op these days. Insane DR, defy lite passives, incredible buffs, great reworks, etc etc. 

Agreed, said as much in my Defy thread. I'm worried that DE think it's so powerful that they can't buff him without him being even more OP, despite the fact that one could argue that Defy is underpowered.

A completely random conversation from todays Sortie,

xFeGYS4.png

And they're bang on the money, all Wukong does is ''survive'', and almost all frames can do that. That's not special or unique to Wukong, and Wukong doesn't even need Defy to do it in the games content. I wonder who is in charge of Wukong though, wouldn't mind having a converation with them about him. Not in a ''harass you into changes'' kinda way, but just a genuine conversation about his current place in the game.

13 hours ago, bbwb said:

Besides these neat effects any other suggestion that combat this for short range weapons? I have little experience with Valkyr but doesn't she have this issue too?

Frame weapons have less total mod capacity since their stance is baked at a lower value than you can go with other weapons. I was considering the idea of a unique forging system for frame weapons to add hard earned base bonuses to ensure that these weapons are considered top 5% weapons. Haven't thought too long but a short example would be a new slot next to stance on frame weapons that is detailed as forge level and on hover has buffs baked in (nothing in the beginning, unrefined). Sacrificing a riven (the market now has better use for trash / veiled rivens lol) into the slot could upgrade it (to a max rank of X). Each rank could provide DE specific buffs that fit that weapon (including unique effects if they want), and at max rank will for at least melee weapons lead to 70 capacity (rather than the 65, frame weapons currently have a tighter capacity than non-frame weapons). 

It's 60 for Unique weapons, as opposed to a normal weapons 70, sadly.

As for suggestions? I'm thinking we're going to have to wait for melee 3.0 where melee ranges should be brought more in line with each other. But yes, Valkyr suffers even more than Wukong does imo.

13 hours ago, bbwb said:

Only if other players can't lower the volume 😄 . haha

I'm down. You think Octavia is annoying? Just wait till I just hitting people with the LOUD squeaks... :clem:

13 hours ago, bbwb said:

Haha, I was like "hmm.. I swore the other one had a toss.." and then ran the combos in game and was like ".. they want both then?" lol. 

:crylaugh: 

Even DeMonkey occasionally makes mistakes.

13 hours ago, bbwb said:

I was just thinking of something that you could easily avoid if you didn't want to use finishers, sometimes especially with Excalibur's huge radius stun getting accidental finishers is actually annoying lol. Like "omg, just a small breath will kill this guy, I don't need to overkill him by one million points". Slam attacks seem in general done on purpose, meanwhile related to his elemental proc concept that is at 100% would make an interesting /optional/ mechanic if you needed it. Also keeps him selfish, which I prefer (at least pre-Journey Wukong), so he's not opening enemies up to finishers for anyone but himself lol.

The mechanic that starts the eyes just imo should therefore be something easily avoidable without seriously gimping himself, DE being able to balance it fairly well with duration and action (for example if we did the slam attack that's time taken do do that action and how long the eyes burn, meaning you wont be slam finisher-ing weak enemies cause that's a waste of time BUT could be nice to go into when you've got bombard city nearby).However beyond that wouldn't really be important to me (so long as I don't have it on too easily, or feel like I have to fight the game not to do it - like sometimes I do with Excalibur). 

I've long hoped, and perhaps melee 3.0 will bring this, that finishers are performed via use of the ''contextual action'' key, as opposed to 'E'. This would eliminate current and future problems around not wanting to perform a finisher.

13 hours ago, bbwb said:

Hmm, sounds cool to watch but I just want to warn you that charged attacks will consume the combo bar in 3.0 (as we know so far) so do you mean to say it'll both consume your combo bar and also take energy? I could see that working though, maybe a bit difficult to manage depending on how gentle or aggressive the mechanic is (like room size might make it not good).

Darned good point.

13 hours ago, bbwb said:

What if his charged attack was crazy long range like you said but struck enemies downwards, then lifting the arm closest to the bottom of the staff up (creating a scalene right triangle with the staff ground and himself) and then the staff quickly shrinks raking the ground towards Wukong - dragging enemies back with the staff in the process (extra points to the devs if it creates sparks/dirt clumps being lifted in the air from pressure down, whatever effect makes sense for the tileset).

Now that, that could work! Kinda like a Rake which would be fitting all things considered. (Didn't the Pig Demon use a rake? Or was that just in media adaptations? I forget)

13 hours ago, bbwb said:

Then do your idea except on his spin attack, and have it cost just like Exalted Blade (except obviously it's a different attack). So he'd do a spinning attack that turns into a freaking giant baseball bat (in essence) of doom smashing enemies in a large arc in front of Wukong into each other and into the walls, enemies hitting the walls will bounce backwards towards Wukong. 

Yes! I'm totally okay with flinging enemies around as long as the end result is that they're flung towards me. :laugh:

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