The Tenno Are Not Invincible

[Sitchrea]

I made this post in reply to another thread, but thought it was interesting enough for a thread of it's own. This is in relation to the common topic of how effective the Tenno would be in other sci-fi universes such as WH40K, Destiny, Halo, etc. Cheers!

 

Warframes will almost always win a head-on fight in any universe against almost any opponent... Yet these are the only fights where they are nearly guaranteed a victory.

Major Tenno Weaknesses

A: Orbiters. Blow up the orbiter and the Operator dies; all Warframes under control of that Operator shut down. GG EZ.

B: Landing Crafts. Locate the Landing Craft before it deploys the Warframe. The Landing Craft carries the Archwing, so without the Archwing the Warframe will either be stranded or left floating in space. Moreso, any potential rescue operation for the Warframe will be forced to decloak; congrats, you've created a Tenno trap. Furthermore, GG on the Tenno who lost their Landing Craft, 'cause they'll be out of commission until they forge another one, and considering Tenno have to pirate all of their resources, this leads to...

C. Resource Acquisition. The Tenno are in function first-and-foremost pirates. All resources and technology the Tenno use are either stolen or dug out of the ground. Thus, four-our-of-five Tenno schools are screwed because their philosophies will not account for attrition (Unairu being philosophically best equipped to handle a seige-like situation where resources are scarce).

D. Sufficient Tactics. The Tenno are infantry. Godlike infantry, yes, but infantry nonetheless. Thus, sufficient anti-infantry tactics should work against them. Long-range weaponry like ICBM's or heavy artillery with proper placement would eliminate an unprepared Tenno Cell. Cluster munitions and any form of area denial would also work in sufficient quantities. Of course, you could always vent the air out of the ship and not send in every Marine you have just to deliver more life support to them... But that's a game mechanic.

E. Sound Strategy. The Tenno are fighters - godlike fighters - but they have no generals, no admirals, no officers, and no command structure. Indeed, they have little need for supply in an operational sense beyond delivering their Warframes to an area, but this can be exploited. Essentially this point echoes all the ones above it in that the Tenno, however lethal they may be, can be overcome through proper planning, preparation, reconnaissance, and execution.

Thoughts?

Edited June 5, 2018 by Sitchrea

[erasthmus]

excellent analysis, thank god we only fight mindless robots and inbred clones

[Naftal]

15 minutes ago, Sitchrea said:

The Tenno are infantry

 

[Sitchrea]

Just now, Naftal said:

 

*Cradle noises*

See point E.

[Dhrekr]

6 minutes ago, Sitchrea said:

A: Orbiters. Blow up the orbiter and the Operator dies; all Warframes under control of that Operator shut down. GG EZ.

Not necessarily. If the Tenno is using a Warframe, they could use Transference into that Warframe and get out of the Orbiter in virtually no time.

9 minutes ago, Sitchrea said:

C. Resource Acquisition. The Tenno are in function first-and-foremost pirates. All resources and technology the Tenno use are either stolen or dug out of the ground.

Tenno collaborate and trade with civilians at the Relays and in places like Cetus; it is more than likely that Tenno could support themselves with such trade.

12 minutes ago, Sitchrea said:

D. Sufficient Tactics. The Tenno are infantry. Godlike infantry, yes, but infantry nonetheless.

No, the Tenno are, for the most part, remote pilots. The Warframes are infiltration infantry.

13 minutes ago, Sitchrea said:

Thus, sufficient anti-infantry tactics should work against them.

Yes, sufficient tactics should be sufficient, but this is far from an interesting statement. "X is a type of Y, therefore sufficient anti-Y tactics should work against X".

However, things like heavy artillery are not viable. The Warframes are infiltration units, they can be targeted, usually, only when within an enemy facility. You're asking the Corpus and the Grineer to bomb themselves, basically.

17 minutes ago, Sitchrea said:

E. Sound Strategy. The Tenno are fighters - godlike fighters - but they have no generals, no admirals, no officers, and no command structure.

Have you even seen the Lotus?

Just asking. Every time you start a mission the Lotus pops up and gives you commands. How do you get to the conclusion that there are no command structures?

It's just that the command structure is extremely simple, and on top of it sits a Sentient.

[Xaero]

19 minutes ago, Sitchrea said:

A: Orbiters. Blow up the orbiter and the Operator dies; all Warframes under control of that Operator shut down. GG EZ.

I don't think it's that easy. Have we ever had at least one Tenno die in game except Rell? And he existed without his physical body.

[Nez-Kal]

.

Edited June 5, 2018 by Tangent-Valley
Eh, not worth it...

[Wolfdoggie]

I'm still waiting for the Corpus to develop a machine that generates a nullifier around their entire base considering how common sense the need for that is.

[Zareek]

LIES! IM INVINCIBLE!

[icemasterJ]

Blowing up the orbiter to kill a tenno might not be as good as it seems. First of all: How will you blow it up? It isn't weird to think that Ordis may very well be able to detect incoming missiles, thus he might be able to warn the tenno. In that case, if the tenno has a warframe outside the ship, he can just go to the location of the warframe in an instant and be away from the orbiter. They would still lose a lot tho, so in my opinion, attacking the orbiter directly is the most efficient way. 

Destroying the landing craft would work for a bit i guess, but lotus does say during the tutorial that she's sending an extraction ship, implying that there may be backups controlled by the lotus or other non-tenno. Also, i think if in need, a tenno could contact a few people and ask for favors, and who knows, maybe Maroo can get us a new ship too. Either way, it'll probably work to hinder them, but it's not gonna be enough on it's own. 

The next 2 I won't really go into depth for, but both could work at least partially.

Now, for the last idea, I don't think this is completely true. The tenno don't have generals, admirals, ect... at this point in time, but they do have the lotus, who can seemingly coordinate all the tenno at once. Furthermore, the tenno did fight in a war in the past. It wouldn't be all that surprising if they did have a command structure, and could possibly start using it again when needed. The rest of this point seems to be more correct though. (and they have clans with hierarchy, so it's not like they have no clue how to deal with working together in a structure like that)

So all in all, the tenno would possibly be best fought using good tactics, but I think you'd mainly use those to weaken them until you can take out their orbiter, since even if they survive that, they lose Ordis, all their warframes and resources, any companions, and pretty much everything else that was in there at that point in time. Another valid thing which you didn't mention is trying to do a Ballas, and take out the Lotus. Of course, you'd have to get to her first, but if you succeed, you get the tenno a lot weaker. 

Edit: i kinda forgot that the Lotus is a sentient and taking her out is practically impossible without tenno powers or weird magic.

Edited June 5, 2018 by icemasterJ

[Sitchrea]

2 minutes ago, Dhrekr said:

Not necessarily. If the Tenno is using a Warframe, they could use Transference into that Warframe and get out of the Orbiter in virtually no time.

Tenno collaborate and trade with civilians at the Relays and in places like Cetus; it is more than likely that Tenno could support themselves with such trade.

No, the Tenno are, for the most part, remote pilots. The Warframes are infiltration infantry.

Yes, sufficient tactics should be sufficient, but this is far from an interesting statement. "X is a type of Y, therefore sufficient anti-Y tactics should work against X".

However, things like heavy artillery are not viable. The Warframes are infiltration units, they can be targeted, usually, only when within an enemy facility. You're asking the Corpus and the Grineer to bomb themselves, basically.

Have you even seen the Lotus?

Just asking. Every time you start a mission the Lotus pops up and gives you commands. How do you get to the conclusion that there are no command structures?

It's just that the command structure is extremely simple, and on top of it sits a Sentient.

Good points, but allow me to refute...

A. This is heavily determined by whether or not that Tenno has experienced a full awakening. In the case of the Tenno in another universe, as stated in the OP, we can assume this is not the case.

C. We trade with civilians, yes, but the only civilians with any wealth are those in the Perrin Sequence or Baro Ki'Teer. Dually note the extraordinarily rare and expensive materials Tenno equipment demands for manufacture (not even counting maintenance), resources such as Nitain, Oxium, Cryotic, and even Kuva. These are resources civilians will most certainly not have access to, and those that do would not have quantities enough to manufacture nor sustain Tenno equipment.

D. Then the Tenno, by that statement, are at even more of a disadvantage in open-field combat. Note as well that there are few environments the Tenno actually excel in, and those are all close-quarters and cealed environments. Areas such as the Plains of Eidolon are more difficult for the Tenno to operate in - and in those areas, artillery, gunships, and bombers shred Tenno (Bolkors, Bombards, and Ogmas - and these are just the few limited means represented in-game).

E. The Lotus is the Tenno's only saving grace. Without her, Tenno do not have the societal structure to support a full military operation. There's a reason the Tenno fight the way they do - a military force only uses guerrilla tactics when in the face of a superior opposition, and the Tenno most definitely use guerrilla warfare - they're just really good at it.

[Gamma745]

31 minutes ago, Sitchrea said:

A: Orbiters. Blow up the orbiter and the Operator dies; all Warframes under control of that Operator shut down. GG EZ.

That's a big IF anyone can find those Orbiters. Ordis keep on mentioning something about hiding them in the Void. And since the Void is explicitly stated to be someplace where reason and logic failed, it's going to be hard finding anything if you don't know exactly where it is.

 

31 minutes ago, Sitchrea said:

B: Landing Crafts. Locate the Landing Craft before it deploys the Warframe. The Landing Craft carries the Archwing, so without the Archwing the Warframe will either be stranded or left floating in space. Moreso, any potential rescue operation for the Warframe will be forced to decloak; congrats, you've created a Tenno trap. Furthermore, GG on the Tenno who lost their Landing Craft, 'cause they'll be out of commission until they forge another one, and considering Tenno have to pirate all of their resources, this leads to...

That's basically like saying "locate the stealth plane before it arrived". Easier said than done. In the Archwing quest and Jordas Assassination mission, we can see the Landing Craft transition from visible to invisible within seconds. Unless anyone have the equipment to see through the invisibility tech the Tenno has, doubtful they could be even spotted that easily.

 

Besides, judging from the flavor text and background snippets we can get, I kinda likened the Tenno as spec-ops unit sent for specialized missions, not foot-soldiers on the front-line.

[Sitchrea]

Just now, Gamma745 said:

That's a big IF anyone can find those Orbiters. Ordis keep on mentioning something about hiding them in the Void. And since the Void is explicitly stated to be someplace where reason and logic failed, it's going to be hard finding anything if you don't know exactly where it is.

 

That's basically like saying "locate the stealth plane before it arrived". Easier said than done. In the Archwing quest and Jordas Assassination mission, we can see the Landing Craft transition from visible to invisible within seconds. Unless anyone have the equipment to see through the invisibility tech the Tenno has, doubtful they could be even spotted that easily.

 

Besides, judging from the flavor text and background snippets we can get, I kinda likened the Tenno as spec-ops unit sent for specialized missions, not foot-soldiers on the front-line.

Absolutely. It's finding the Tenno before they hit you that is the hard part. However, depending on other universes' means of detecting cloaked vessels, the Tenno may or may not be screwed. It all depends on their opposition's reconnaissance ability.

[icemasterJ]

It sounds more and more like the only way to defeat tenno is by having better tech, and being better at what they do.

[Guest]

Just now, icemasterJ said:

It sounds more and more like the only way to defeat tenno is by having better tech, and being better at what they do.

Isn't that how to defeat like practically ... everything?

[Vanille]

23 minutes ago, Wolfdoggie said:

I'm still waiting for the Corpus to develop a machine that generates a nullifier around their entire base considering how common sense the need for that is.

They place exploding barrels randomly around their bases/ships (specially under windows in space) and you expect them to use common sense? :^)

[icemasterJ]

9 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

Isn't that how to defeat like practically ... everything?

Usually, yes, but having that as the only way to defeat them is quite something.

[Sitchrea]

20 minutes ago, icemasterJ said:

It sounds more and more like the only way to defeat tenno is by having better tech, and being better at what they do.

Yes, in a general sense. But only in general.

[tprx]

I was under the impression the Tenno are more Ninja than soldier. That means they're more suited for special forces deployment and tactics. They go in quietly, under the radar, do the jobs, then extract. Infantry is more or less all about holding or storming prepared positions. In conclusion, it would be more truthful to compared Tenno to USA SEALs or English SAS.

[Teloch]

1 hour ago, Sitchrea said:

Thoughts?

You are giving too many thoughts to a game world that is driven not by common sense but by the rule of cool.

Edited June 5, 2018 by Teloch

[Vanille]

 

[Kronxito]

Rell proved a Tenno's mind can live forever in the void, with dramatic consequences (because there is a "man in the wall" we need to kill for the void to be a quiet place).

So.... you can kill a tenno's body but his/her mind can persist in the void.

Edited June 5, 2018 by AnGeL_KRoM

[-Krism-]

2 hours ago, Sitchrea said:

A: Orbiters. Blow up the orbiter and the Operator dies; all Warframes under control of that Operator shut down. GG EZ.

 

That's why we have Ordis, he's been "created" to assist the Tennos & drive the Orbiter. I'm also pretty sure that the Orbiter has camouflage, shields & some kind of overdrive or lightspeed.

Also, if Ordis sense danger that his shields couldn't counter, like a Fomorian:

-The Operator could just get out of their Warframe on a planet or via the Landing Craft.

-Ordis can just light jump or whatever the technology they have is named.

2 hours ago, Sitchrea said:

B: Landing Crafts. Furthermore, GG on the Tenno who lost their Landing Craft

 

Like A, Ordis is driving the Landing Craft too. I don't really think losing it is possible.

2 hours ago, Sitchrea said:

C. Resource Acquisition. The Tenno are in function first-and-foremost pirates. All resources and technology the Tenno use are either stolen or dug out of the ground. Thus, four-our-of-five Tenno schools are screwed because their philosophies will not account for attrition (Unairu being philosophically best equipped to handle a seige-like situation where resources are scarce).

 

That's not a weakness.

2 hours ago, Sitchrea said:

D. Sufficient Tactics. The Tenno are infantry. Godlike infantry, yes, but infantry nonetheless. Thus, sufficient anti-infantry tactics should work against them. Long-range weaponry like ICBM's or heavy artillery with proper placement would eliminate an unprepared Tenno Cell. Cluster munitions and any form of area denial would also work in sufficient quantities. Of course, you could always vent the air out of the ship and not send in every Marine you have just to deliver more life support to them... But that's a game mechanic.

 

Infantry? They are walking tanks. Even a Fomorian is not enough to stop them, archwing included of course.

Of course, enough of it could kill them, they are not Gods. But I have yet to see that in the game.

2 hours ago, Sitchrea said:

E. Sound Strategy. The Tenno are fighters - godlike fighters - but they have no generals, no admirals, no officers, and no command structure. Indeed, they have little need for supply in an operational sense beyond delivering their Warframes to an area, but this can be exploited. Essentially this point echoes all the ones above it in that the Tenno, however lethal they may be, can be overcome through proper planning, preparation, reconnaissance, and execution.

 

What about space-mom? How can you even forget her?

[NocheLuz]

A. The Orbiter is camouflage itself when deploy, much like Landing craft. They're not even shown up on any radar/sonar reading. IIRC, Ordis did said something like he'll not let any one finding the Orbiter while the Tenno are out on the mission. But if you can find any frames that use invinsibility and travel at speed of sound you might have a chance in attacking the Orbiter and Landing craft. Well, a chance at blowing one up? That is another story.

B. Read A above...

C. The Tenno are not alone. There are a lot of Grinneer that convert to neutual and trade with Tenno. Not to mention as long as there are profit, the Corpus will readily trade with Tenno. So, the only real enemies here is either Grinneer, Infestation and Orokin while Corpus we only fighting them if the profit they seek seem to destroy the balance of the power (which will normally did).

D. If they can detect them and willing to destroy one of their base then yes... It is possible to kill the warframe with ICBM or any strategic missiles. But we all know Warframe never really died. They can be salvage and rebuild. Not to mention can be energy surge to revitalize their system. While the Tenno will just transference back to Orbiter when their life in Danger. To destroy one of their base in exchange for replaceable puppets? I don't think they want to do that.

E. They are assassin. They have their mission. They do their mission. They finished their mission. It's all they need to do. Even if they cannot contact anyone when deploy, as long as they finished their given mission (well, if Lotus not change it half way). They will consider mission complete and leave. The method is depend on them, or I should say the player. Either Gun blazing or Stealth. Lotus never criticize us if we do Gun blazing in the Spy Vault as long as we get the data.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

Well, I’ll just go 180 degrees.

If the Tenno were so inclined, they could use their Stealth-teleport-capture tech on top of their trans-dimensional, rules altering void powers to wipe out the Solar System if they wanted.

The Lotus could mobilize the Tenno to easily wipe out all effective leadership, take over entire fleets, and bring planet-destroying firepower to bear against Entire planets uncontested and unseen in almost the blink of an eye if she were to get truly ruthless with the Natah side of her...oh wait, is that side of her waking up now that the Margulis side is gone 🤭🤫😏?