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The Tenno Are Not Invincible


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22 hours ago, Datam4ss said:

Hulk also has feats Rhino can't do. Like take more punishment than Rhino and regenerate. You seem to be forgetting Rhino's stomp is still space magic and powered by the void. It is more similar to Doctor Strange playing around with the Time Gem than Hulk punching the ground. Hulk isn't a space magician. Rhino still is.

 

I highly disagree with that opinion.rhino and hulk are very similar..they're both solely based on physical up-close combat...hulk is powered by his anger while rhino is more of "roar/rage" idk to buff em...hulk has healing effect while rhino can harden his skin to tank more damage..and lastly hulk in his WWH form almos sunk a city just by a footstep while rhino can stop time and defy gravity just by a stomp.

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19 minutes ago, (PS4)ITS_TH3GOD said:

I highly disagree with that opinion.rhino and hulk are very similar..they're both solely based on physical up-close combat...hulk is powered by his anger while rhino is more of "roar/rage" idk to buff em...hulk has healing effect while rhino can harden his skin to tank more damage..and lastly hulk in his WWH form almos sunk a city just by a footstep while rhino can stop time and defy gravity just by a stomp.

Being "based on physical close up combat" doesn't mean you can't use full contact magic. Rhino's powers are distinctly space magic in how they work and the properties they exhibit. There is nothing 100% physical about it.

58 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Point 1: Have you seen the SIZE of that thing? It is the size of a literal mountain, and was, if we consider that the fragments are exactly that, parts of it's body thus have similar composition, covered in hundreds of thousands of Eidolon guns. Not to mention it had an army of Eidolon fragments. Consider that most Tenno nowadays have problem soloing a single busted up Hydrolyst that mindlessly fires AOE attacks and homing shots, let alone an army of them that all had a collective consciousness enabling them to make precise tactical decisions as well as aim and all being in fully working order not worn down by the wear of thousands of years. Even one Eidolon fragment would be way more of a threat like that, so regardless of how many it deployed against her. Which was almost certainly several, but admittedly probably not it's entire force given the situation of the fight. But just the full sized thing alone is far and away past what we have ever fought, let alone solo. All in all, that feat dwarfs our biggest in-game feats. Again, modern Tenno have issues fighting broken Eidolon fragments.

Yeah, yeah, as I said earlier, they did not mention how Gara defeated the thing. What her operator did. Heck she could have danced past all the Hydrolysts and Voms (and probably Conculusts etc) without caring using mobility alone, to deliver some sort of device that would cause a huge void energy explosion. Who knows? The Orokin were capable of opening gates into the void so it isn't illogical they can give Gara a device to do so.

Or Gara's operator might have had huge void beams to fire.

We will never know.

58 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Point 2: You're getting stuck on the fact it's beyond our present comprehension again. That isn't my main point. At all. My point is that maths is logical, as we have both made clear. Ergo, if Limbo wrote down, in pure, logical, mathematics "I did this" then for the rest of the mathematics would not work if that thing had not occured, because the maths would be wrong, since he wrote X=Y when X=/=Y. Ergo, we know for a FACT that Limbo did throw large number of enemies into the rift at once, and that for that number to be impressive enough for Ordis to misinterpret it with an exaggeration, it must still be several times more than our present abilities, because our present abilities only scrape the level of a squad or two. And even taking a gradual progression into account, we can still compare that directly with our present abilities. Presently we can do that to get about 100ish enemies in. A great deal more than with one cataclysm, but even then, it's still an order of magnitude below what the Original Limbo was doing. An order of magnitude is usually defined in multiples of ten. Since the low end of the estimate is 7000 and all. So even if Limbo was taking them in gradually, it was at a significantly higher rate, with much more range (for him to keep up the rift surge to keep them in) or had a great deal more duration. So, yeah, original Limbo was much more powerful than our present ones.

Our logic is based on our current comprehension and perception of reality. You seem to be unable to accept that fact that logic is not truly a "pure science removed of human error". Logic is in fact inherently biased to the one writing the Axioms (which are simply mass agreements about things that make sense), and things we cannot interpret or make sense of yet we work our way around it till it becomes "logical". Logic is not an absolute, and maths is no more absolute compared to said logic, being its derivative and not its parent.

And Maths doesn't give you power:

11 hours ago, Datam4ss said:

Also, solving complex equations doesn't make one powerful. Sure, it makes one smart, but if weird equations made one powerful, don't you think Physicists should be flying and shooting lasers out of their mouths?

We already know the original frames are more powerful. I am simply saying they are not "that much greater". As in comparing our current frame to theirs is not truly a "heaven and earth" divide you seem to be making it out to be.

Assuming an equal soldier density, to capture 10 times the enemies, you would simply need a Cataclysm about 3.1x the diameter of our current Cataclysm due to how area works - taking into account Rift Surge and all, the gap wouldn't actually be that big, since we know area actually scales in a quadratic manner with power range.

58 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Point 2 addendum: That's hardly the hellish nature being a property of the rift itself, which since Ordis immediately mentions how "Physics is wonderful", it would appear to be. If it was him making it hell like via his weapons, it wouldn't be physics doing it. Or, to be specific, it wouldn't be the physics of the rift, which is what Ordis is referring to.

Admittedly I obtained Limbo a long time ago. Remembering all these tiny details would be a difficulty.

But I would propose a counter - "hellish" is very much, again, as I reiterate the same argument, based on perspective. This degenerates into a Semantic Problem - what is Ordis' definition of hellish? It could be My Little Pony for all we know, but we can't exactly know that. Even given reasonable bounds, Ordis could very well consider getting trapped by Stasis, in a region of space that one cannot escape or comprehend, a hellish and harrowing experience ... which our Limbo can do.

The rift as a hellish place because it is where you have no control over whether you live or die, move or freeze, it's a perfectly logical possibility.

P.S. No point in me addressing point 3 and 4 - we seem to be in agreement the Tenno and Orokin are roughly comparable, and yet only have each other as comparison without actual feats that are currently still NOT shrouded in mystery.

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