(XB1/PS4) Virtual Cursor Feedback Megathread

[(PSN)XxDDKillaxX]

So I gave myself some time to get used to it and gave you DE some time to hotfixes/changes and everything you did was not only welcome, but you listened to us by making the changes we asked for.

However, no matter how you slice it, this is a UI meant for and based around PC... and frankly it feels like it. I loaded it up yesterday and all I could thing of was how optimized this would be with a mouse and keyboard and how underappreciated this makes me feel as a console player. I get it, you started on PC and the bulk of the player base is there too but why even change the old system? It was optimized for console and this one feels like you hammered the square peg into the round hole. I appreciate all the support but it still Leaves me disappointed. 

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

After the hotfix/changes... Im digging this now. Even like the cursor. Great job guys! 

[(PSN)XxDDKillaxX]

4 hours ago, (PS4)NewcastleDisease said:

Hi DE,

the very first implementation of the new UI was terrible. i know you had a lot to handle to make this go live but is was not usable for consoles.

After some updates yesterday i have to say: not so bad. option to use shortcuts (as before) is great. i don't really get any advantage of the cursor right now (maybe in the future?), but i didn't feel set back any more. thank for the very fast support!

for all the haters: DE did a great job coding this game. if new implementations are not so good: well, say it and wait for a reaction. but to leave a great game after the very first not-so-good - thing is quite ridiculous... it's a (free!!) game with a great community-support a a fantastic story line. 

ah and i love what they did with Khora: very nice Frame 🙂

 

one thing: if i use d-pads for selection, the table do not scroll for itself. would be great if this would work again.

 

greats,

talli

Biggest advantage in my opinion is the cursor feels really smooth and considerably faster when selecting weapons and mods due to the ability to acroll with the right stick and select with the left. This is a functionality that was always missing in the console version. Otherwise I'm not a huge fan but it's not nearly unusable like it was at launch. 

[(PSN)originalsidney]

Just updated and had a go, besides the bugs there is no reason for a cursor. It's painfully slow to navigate and isn't vaguely intuitive.

The weapon selection part of the loadout only allows me to choose what's visible, it doesn't scroll down. Modding is slow and clunky. Changing loadout in the navigation screen no longer shows equipped weapons as you hover over your waframe loadouts. You can't quit a squad quickly and have to use the cursor.

The navigation screen with this new cursor is enough to make you pull your hair out.

 

Please DE, just change it back to what is was.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

23 hours ago, TwoWolves said:

lmao I swear, if it wasn't for the color scheme and the fact that I know I'm not on the nexus forums, I'd swear I was with the amount of *@##$ing being done over a patch and the threats of, "I'm taking my marbles and going home!" 

Seriously, let me explain how things work to you kids, from someone who has sat on the sidelines and watched internecine (that means something destructive to both sides of an argument) strife rip through the Nexus over the implementation of their new mod manager system. Same thing happened there: people complaining because they don't like change, people complaining because they feel entitled, and people complaining just to complain or troll. The end result was a lot of unnecessary bitterness and butt-hurting among modders stuck in their closed-minded mentality. 

DE's response time to our concerns and bug posts is nothing short of stunning in the world of MMOs. Not even Robin over on Nexus is capable of moving that fast (though to be fair, he is managing a rather unruly group of players/modders). 

My only feedback to DE would be simply to change the cursor to the style that is on the PC. It's a smaller arrow, and moves a lot faster in response to the your mouse. Also, make it auto fade when not on a UI screen. That's it. 

As for you players who refuse to see the writing on the wall, let me break it to you gently with a chainsaw. Sony and Microsoft are first and foremost computer companies. Don't believe me? Sony is on the cutting edge of quantum and optical computing. They invented the Blu-Ray format. Can any of you tell me what the other format was before blu-ray? Exactly. It's like with VHS and Beta-Max. 

Your console is a computer. Keyboard gaming is, for this style of game, a more better fit, and honestly, a keyboard and mouse is like $20 at Walmart. Go buy one and embrace it. Quit being afraid of the PC Master Race because guess what? They're all computers! The only difference is that one is more portable and doesn't have quite as good graphics. This isn't a dig at console gaming, either; I love my PS3 because I use it to play Ratchet and Clank and other games not available on PC (and I wouldn't want to play arcade games on a PC anyway). But I wouldn't play Skyrim on the console. The PC Master Race is a myth to foster divisiveness among the gamer community.  

Keyboard and mouse lends itself better to Warframe than a controller simply because you can hot key everything and have more control options than on the controller. On the other hand, I can see the other side of the argument, too. The controller is more compact and convenient and doesn't require two separate peripherals. I say, give it a week of keyboard gaming and see if you don't agree that at least for Warframe, it's a better set up. And even if you don't go with K&M gaming, give DE a chance to perfect the new UI tweaks before freaking out.

 

Lemme make it simple for you to understand. You go into a store to buy a gaming computer. Odds are that the sales rep is going to offer you a thing they refer to as a "desktop". Mainly because it sits on or near a "desk". A desk is usually a flat horizontal surface where you can put things like a "keyboard and mouse" which will either come with or be sold to be used with your "desktop". 

 

If you scroll to the top of the page and read the title of this thread, you may notice that it's not really about people playing on desktops. It's geared towards the experience of people playing on "consoles" where many of us don't sit at a desk to play. 

 

Saying "buy a keyboard and mouse lol" is well and good, but it literally isn't a viable option for many of us. In case you missed it, people even pointed out that they tried to use them, and still had to use buttons on the controller for some actions. 

 

That's part of the problem. The changes made didn't really suit anyone, and took away functionality from players who up to recently were not plagued by all of these issues. 

Saying you want a "universal system" is fine. Saying that you want a "one size fits all" system is an exercise in folly. 

 

As I said before, I'd like to have the option of toggling to a preset that works for the standard controller that most everyone using my system has. I suspect that the xbox players feel the same way. My system does not use a mouse and any control scheme that requires I use the controller to pretend to be using a mouse really is counter productive. 

 

 

[(PSN)EpicediumUK]

Appears to be a hitbox issue related to new UI and some mission nodes, e.g. Kuva Fortress > Taveuni  

Moving cursor around mission node icon and rapidly tapping X while doing so will sometimes start the mission.

 

Edited June 8, 2018 by (PS4)EpicediumUK

[(PSN)zedlanik]

I call DE bullS#&$ same as bungie said before it's hard to to make dlc content now DE says it's hard to make content with old U.I  lol same crap again they got money they made tones of money employ people to work on your game stop pushing players to play how you like 

Edited June 8, 2018 by (PS4)zedlanik

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

7 hours ago, KiryuKusakabe said:

you do realize that they can't just immediately change something on consoles like they can on PC. a build has to go through a certification process done by people who work for Mircosoft/Sony. 

You do realise that is a pretty good reason to not roll out major changes that replace working systems with broken ones that cannot be toggled off. 

 

People have it totally wrong. Yes people resist change in general. This doesn't mean that the push back in this case wasn't due to the change being bad. 

Yes there have been huge improvements once DE admitted to having screwed up, instead of just saying "increasing the controller speed helps" or "yeah we're not going to be going back, deal with it", but "improvements" or "gradually getting used to it" doesn't mean that we're currently having a better experience as customers than we were a week ago. 

Universal code is fine, I understand how it's a good thing. But universal code could also mean, well written modular code that includes presets that allow console players to have a system that works well with their controller based interface. It does not have to mean code that forces the customer to use a system that does not take their controller options into consideration. 

[(XBOX)mickeyjuiceman]

11 hours ago, (XB1)Evilpricetag said:

If you weren't aware, most of PC users already use a controller

Got data to support this ridiculous claim?

[(PSN)zedlanik]

Ill rather wait for a update then get a broken update like de always gives us and then messes around with .U.I

[(PSN)Firebrandd]

Forcing M&K on console players is like the President saying, "I know everyone loves birthday cake, but I like fried pickles. Here is a lifetime supply of fried pickles. You'll learn to love them." How is that in any way okay? Why would any company worth its salt do something like that and think that they are going to keep their customers?

[(PSN)watt4hem]

It's one of those things that people just take for granted.

Spaghetti code is a horrid thing to face. It's like trying to untagle a phone pole to rearrage it, with chopsticks.

The best thing they could probably do is to make "nodes" on every buttons, and the d-pad would make the cursor warp from node to node. That, or use the ps4 touch pad as a trackpad like on alaptop (this is how i navigate on pc with a ds4).

[Atekron]

11 hours ago, Firetempest said:

sorry, but how to get this cool glyph?

 

 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)Firebrandd said:

Forcing M&K on console players is like the President saying, "I know everyone loves birthday cake, but I like fried pickles. Here is a lifetime supply of fried pickles. You'll learn to love them." How is that in any way okay? Why would any company worth its salt do something like that and think that they are going to keep their customers?

I wouldn't think that people would mind, so long as we could continue to choose have cake...... Oh wait 

 

 

P.S. Now I really want some cake. 😞

[(PSN)Arc1723]

And, If we _could_ hotkey everything like on a keyboard, don't you think we'd fix it ourselves? For it to become like the "fully customizable interface" of mouse and keyboard, THEY HAVE TO GIVE US THE OPTION TO CHANGE IT TO SOMETHING THAT WORKS FOR US. Otherwise it is simply lying. Other programmers have managed multiple controller layouts, multiple architecture. Yeah, I get it if you don't want to have to do the same work multiple times, I dislike that myself. I'll raise the Accessibility point again and point out that not everyone has the fine motor controls for a stick based pointer system, but enough to play the actual game. Which has now become inaccessible. I'll raise the whole corporate competition end of things where there are multiple, different, sources for entertainment, and people will choose one over another for a laundry list of reasons. IE: My first video game was pac-man, thru various stand up arcade machines, then an nes, a snes, a genesis, a PC, a playstation, 2, 3, 4. Guess which control scheme I did't like for most gaming. Keyboard are great if for some reason you _NEED_ a bunch of buttons, but they don't fit in your hand, they are not terribly mobile beyond all of a foot or so. Mice are great for accuracy, and the direct relation you can have between hand positioning and cursor location makes cursors quick and easy, but usually they have all of three buttons, you can't move using them, you need another control. Controllers are great because all the button are in immediate reach, most a cordless, and provided the programmer hasn't dropped the ball, also completely customizable, but they are not accurate, fine movements are just never going to be as easy or as accurate with a stick that has no gnostic reference to the cursor. You want to menu with a controller, go play any of the final fantasy games at least up to and including the whole 13 mess, and you'll see how swift it can be. Somewhat like how it was. 

TL;DR: My ass is 40 and has been primarily console/controller gaming nearly all of it. My ass remember when PCs didn't HAVE mice. Hell, I remember when PCs didn't have graphics, just text. Cursors can be an improvement for something already using them, but for someone who is not, and tends largely not to use a visual cursor based system, losing the snap to functionality of an actual console controller makes the whole thing feel like dancing on marbles. A nice tight concise interface to match the gameplay.

 

So yeah, fix the "feel" and you might be better off. It needs to be immediate and responsive. If I tell to do something, that it WAS fully capable of doing, and am met with total disobedience, guess my reaction. Yes, technically, I have better things to do with my time, and previously I really enjoyed playing warframe. But it felt good. Most games don't hold my attention for MULTIPLE years. Mostly I play them until I'm done and shelve it. I had actually reached the point of periodically buying Plat. Not a lot, I am playing a free to play on a console after all, but i was there, getting into the fasionframe and all the things I didn't have to be good at in the game to enjoy. I could just avoid things I didn't like or weren't perhaps implemented the best. Not a fan of hacking, bypass. Not a fan of archwing, bypass. Not a fan of mining, bypass (back to the stick is not a mouse). But this update is like bubblegum in my hair I can't get rid of, and all of the suggestions, whilst some may "work", fall short of just cutting it all off to where it was before. Like no one has done a roll-back before.

 

I genuinely don't know about any of these other bugs as I've been literally unable to get far enough to see what else they messed up, allegedly a shame about the fishing...

Edited June 8, 2018 by (PS4)Arc1723

[(PSN)Gaelic-_-Flame]

I'm usually not picky about UI stuff, but man, this change was absolutely terrible! It's counterintuitive, it's slow, and it doesn't even provide ANY benefit for a console player. It's like an all-around downgrade.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)Arc1723 said:

And, If we _could_ hotkey everything like on a keyboard, don't you think we'd fix it ourselves? For it to become like the "fully customizable interface" of mouse and keyboard, THEY HAVE TO GIVE US THE OPTION TO CHANGE IT TO SOMETHING THAT WORKS FOR US. Otherwise it is simply lying. Other programmers have managed multiple controller layouts, multiple architecture. Yeah, I get it if you don't want to have to do the same work multiple times, I dislike that myself. I'll raise the Accessibility point again and point out that not everyone has the fine motor controls for a stick based pointer system, but enough to play the actual game. Which has now become inaccessible. I'll raise the whole corporate competition end of things where there are multiple, different, sources for entertainment, and people will choose one over another for a laundry list of reasons. IE: My first video game was pac-man, thru various stand up arcade machines, then an nes, a snes, a genesis, a PC, a playstation, 2, 3, 4. Guess which control scheme I did't like for most gaming. Keyboard are great if for some reason you _NEED_ a bunch of buttons, but they don't fit in your hand, they are not terribly mobile beyond all of a foot or so. Mice are great for accuracy, and the direct relation you can have between hand positioning and cursor location makes cursors quick and easy, but usually they have all of three buttons, you can't move using them, you need another control. Controllers are great because all the button are in immediate reach, most a cordless, and provided the programmer hasn't dropped the ball, also completely customizable, but they are not accurate, fine movements are just never going to be as easy or as accurate with a stick that has no gnostic reference to the cursor. You want to menu with a controller, go play any of the final fantasy games at least up to and including the whole 13 mess, and you'll see how swift it can be. Somewhat like how it was. 

TL;DR: My ass is 40 and has been primarily console/controller gaming nearly all of it. My ass remember when PCs didn't HAVE mice. Hell, I remember when PCs didn't have graphics, just text. Cursors can be an improvement for something already using them, but for someone who is not, and tends largely not to use a visual cursor based system, losing the snap to functionality of an actual console controller makes the whole thing feel like dancing on marbles. A nice tight concise interface to match the gameplay.

 

So yeah, fix the "feel" and you might be better off. It needs to be immediate and responsive. If I tell to do something, that it WAS fully capable of doing, and am met with total disobedience, guess my reaction. Yes, technically, I have better things to do with my time, and previously I really enjoyed playing warframe. But it felt good. Most games don't hold my attention for MULTIPLE years. Mostly I play them until I'm done and shelve it. I had actually reached the point of periodically buying Plat. Not a lot, I am playing a free to play on a console after all, but i was there, getting into the fasionframe and all the things I didn't have to be good at in the game to enjoy. I could just avoid things I didn't like or weren't perhaps implemented the best. Not a fan of hacking, bypass. Not a fan of archwing, bypass. Not a fan of mining, bypass (back to the stick is not a mouse). But this update is like bubblegum in my hair I can't get rid of, and all of the suggestions, whilst some may "work", fall short of just cutting it all off to where it was before. Like no one has done a roll-back before.

 

I genuinely don't know about any of these other bugs as I've been literally unable to get far enough to see what else they messed up, allegedly a shame about the fishing...

You missed out on the Atari systems? 

I'm coming from the opposite end, I have played most of my 40+ years on a mouse and keyboard (heck I remember having to copy what felt like pages upon pages of code in BASIC out of a magazine to be able to play a GAME of duck hunt). Only game I ever played on pc with a controller was Bastion. I bought a second hand console (my first in about 2 decades) earlier this year. Warframe was the second or third game I tried and I haven't really touched another since. 

 

I have no good way to add a keyboard and mouse to my system and believe me I tried to use one for region/clan/squad chat. Forcing me to use a controller to pretend to be using a mouse is really a bad move. Especially when almost all of the ps4/xbox players will have standardised controllers. 

[(PSN)FurryZenJustice]

I imagine most of the people making the K&M argument don't have any actual background in UI design. They don't really know where things work and where they don't. But the argument sounds correct. It's not. It's not about it being a console and everything to be with it being a mediocre mouse, with a limited keyboard. That's what a controller effectively is.

One controller maps to mouse movement. The other to WASD and the d-pad to your keyboard's up/down/left/right (or WASD) again. They're already associated.

So when designing interfaces that work for console, they have to ask themselves: "is this UI primarily limited to cardinal directions?" For grids and lists they are, but there are plenty of areas where d-pad is the vastly inferior option. Also d-pad-exclusive (or focus-based) interfaces start falling apart as control density increases, the same way keyboard navigation does. And controllers don't have home/end or page up/page down.

Cursor interfaces are primarily controlled by Fitt's Law. The issue is that there are places that have very small controls or that are thin in one dimension making them difficult cursor targets.

So as the number of items in the game increase, item management continually makes d-pad management a worse option. This has been a trend. Players typically start to see it with their  mods first, I think. In that search becomes the primary interface because there are just too many to scroll through one-by-one.

But cursors don't have that problem. You can shrink the size of the items on screen some, increasing the total number of items. Scrolling can be controlled much more effectively because it's not tied to the number of items you have, but rather capped to a scroll mechanism. and we've already seen that the new stuff scrolls much faster.

At first glance the new UI looks awful and looks like they just made a bunch of changes to be lazy. I don't think that's it at all. I think they realized where their game was going. That every time they added a bunch more stuff to the game (e.g. PoE, or the upcoming Venus) the old system got just a little bit worse.

There are already places where I'm faster with the cursor than I was with the d-pad. The major pain points that people are focusing on are the menus with less than a dozen items in them. Those are a problem, but they're not insurmountable and they may not even be a problem in the new UI if it's been designed about cursor first.

-------

I would just make one suggestion to the community. Before lambasting DE (or any other creator) think through the problem and try to think of why they might have done things a certain way. Don't automatically presume malice or neglect, but perhaps acknowledge that they know where things are going and might be trying to build for the future and not just the past.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)FurryZenJustice said:

I imagine most of the people making the K&M argument don't have any actual background in UI design. They don't really know where things work and where they don't. But the argument sounds correct. It's not. It's not about it being a console and everything to be with it being a mediocre mouse, with a limited keyboard. That's what a controller effectively is.

One controller maps to mouse movement. The other to WASD and the d-pad to your keyboard's up/down/left/right (or WASD) again. They're already associated.

So when designing interfaces that work for console, they have to ask themselves: "is this UI primarily limited to cardinal directions?" For grids and lists they are, but there are plenty of areas where d-pad is the vastly inferior option. Also d-pad-exclusive (or focus-based) interfaces start falling apart as control density increases, the same way keyboard navigation does. And controllers don't have home/end or page up/page down.

Cursor interfaces are primarily controlled by Fitt's Law. The issue is that there are places that have very small controls or that are thin in one dimension making them difficult cursor targets.

So as the number of items in the game increase, item management continually makes d-pad management a worse option. This has been a trend. Players typically start to see it with their  mods first, I think. In that search becomes the primary interface because there are just too many to scroll through one-by-one.

But cursors don't have that problem. You can shrink the size of the items on screen some, increasing the total number of items. Scrolling can be controlled much more effectively because it's not tied to the number of items you have, but rather capped to a scroll mechanism. and we've already seen that the new stuff scrolls much faster.

At first glance the new UI looks awful and looks like they just made a bunch of changes to be lazy. I don't think that's it at all. I think they realized where their game was going. That every time they added a bunch more stuff to the game (e.g. PoE, or the upcoming Venus) the old system got just a little bit worse.

There are already places where I'm faster with the cursor than I was with the d-pad. The major pain points that people are focusing on are the menus with less than a dozen items in them. Those are a problem, but they're not insurmountable and they may not even be a problem in the new UI if it's been designed about cursor first.

-------

I would just make one suggestion to the community. Before lambasting DE (or any other creator) think through the problem and try to think of why they might have done things a certain way. Don't automatically presume malice or neglect, but perhaps acknowledge that they know where things are going and might be trying to build for the future and not just the past.

Works really well, except for having to go fishing to get from wherever the last menu left the controller to wherever the new menu needs me to be on the screen. 

 

Also the fact that when you reach the boundary of the screen, I now have to go to a different control, and move the selection so I can get to what I'm looking for instead of just holding whichever direction and it being intuitive enough to let me continue to scroll through to get to what I want. 

That increases the complexity for the end user, and so far is slowing things down in some areas. Others may actually be a bit faster and those aren't the ones that people seem to be complaining about. 

 

Perfect example includes leaving a group. That's pretty standard for people doing public matchmaking. It's going to be done at the end of every single mission. Take the 3 or 4 seconds and increased complexity for the end user and then multiply it by let's say a hundred matches in a session. Then multiply by a few sessions per week. 

The customer shouldn't have to go from a control scheme that works better on their system to one that doesn't. So far, parts of the new system are still disadvantageous. 

 

[(PSN)FurryZenJustice]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Perfect example includes leaving a group. That's pretty standard for people doing public matchmaking. It's going to be done at the end of every single mission. Take the 3 or 4 seconds and increased complexity for the end user and then multiply it by let's say a hundred matches in a session. Then multiply by a few sessions per week. 

The customer shouldn't have to go from a control scheme that works better on their system to one that doesn't. So far, parts of the new system are still disadvantageous. 

Leaving a group is a problem. And I'm not stating that there aren't plenty of problems, because there are. What I'm saying is that controllers aren't some mystical third thing. They're basically a ~12 button keyboard with two crappy mice attached.

That said a simple fix would be adding a keyboard shortcut for "Show Profile" and "Leave Squad" in the main menu (maybe R1 and R2). In fact, it would probably be better than it was before the changes as it would remove some button presses. 

DE knows they messed up and they're clearly working very hard to fix it. I would just hate to see DE go the wrong way on this because people thought they understood the problem when they didn't.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)FurryZenJustice said:

Leaving a group is a problem. And I'm not stating that there aren't plenty of problems, because there are. What I'm saying is that controllers aren't some mystical third thing. They're basically a ~12 button keyboard with two crappy mice attached.

That's pretty much a perfect reason to not try and force a one size fits all solution, isn't it? 

[(PSN)FurryZenJustice]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

That's pretty much a perfect reason to not try and force a one size fits all solution, isn't it? 

The issue that I see and I think it's the same issue they do, is that there are times when a crappy mouse is still better than a keyboard. Identifying those areas is part of the design process. And if most of the screens in the update are actually better with a mouse/cursor, even a crappy one, then this was the right way to go long term. The problem is we don't have that theoretical UI.

But imagine if you could only use the d-pad in the old UI. Only use it in the map. Only use it in the browser.

They could have made a map that "preferred" a d-pad based layout. It would be kind of ugly and boring. We have a map that "prefers" a cursor.

Frankly if the current UI were less grids, lists and menus we probably wouldn't be complaining. But even grids and lists can get to a point where they prefer a cursor. You just have to have enough items in them. That was the point I was trying to make before. Controllers are less a third thing than mice and keyboards combined. Frankly, if they were a completely unique third thing software would be almost impossible to port the same way you couldn't just port keyboard-centric software to a mice and keyboard combination.

So, again, sometimes a crappy cursor beats a limited keyboard. Sometimes it doesn't. They didn't get rid of the keyboard entirely. They're trying to give us both and I imagine it's because they know that long-term it's the best idea.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)FurryZenJustice said:

 

But imagine if you could only use the d-pad in the old UI. Only use it in the map. Only use it in the browser.

They could have made a map that "preferred" a d-pad based layout. It would be kind of ugly and boring. We have a map that "prefers" a cursor.

 

I dunno man that's pretty myopic. The fact that we didn't have a map that would have worked better with the dpad doesn't mean that you couldn't have had one. 

Apart from a few parts the starchart is pretty linear, spiralling outward. Let's call in towards the sun (hubward?) "down" and outwards (rimward?) "up". At that point you can have a rotating dynamic solar system instead of a fixed one where most of the points are easily referenced in relation to one another with a single pair of directions. (Preferably with a toggle in case people get motion sickness from staring at its dynamic gloriousness all day.) 

Put it all on the back of a giant turtle, and you have a winner in everyone's books. 😉

 

It's just like I'm not one of the people saying that it's impossible to have a system based off of what they've built that works well. I'm saying that what we have doesn't yet work as well overall as the previous system, and until there's one that does, it's worth thinking about having different (but still universal) options that acknowledge the fact that not all control schemes are equal and that there are currently 3 main groups that people fall in to. (Or you know, two with one of them having 2 subgroups.)

[(XBOX)Kavriel]

Watch them change the starmap to a scrolling match selector. 😕

 

I'm not so much complaining about the cursor, I mean I hate it and they historically don't do well on consoles, but the way it was added AND the way it functions are both terrible.

Steve gave the example that he didn't want a spreadsheet simulator, which I completely understand but it would almost be preferable to this. Seriously, open Excel on your PC, forget you have a mouse for a second and try navigating with the arrow keys. See what happens? That translates to dpad/left stick on gamepads. Now if you map 'Alt' to a trigger and 'control, tab, enter, and backspace' to the face or shoulder buttons you have more or less complete navigation of the spreadsheet without any custom programming. Why this can't be done on a videogame that focuses on speed and freedom of movement AND that already had a functional interface is baffling. If it was part of a different GUI that required it then it should have come with that GUI, not been ungracefully crammed in the place of something comfortable.

If the cursor is necessary for the GUI so be it, but it should be obvious at this point that the GUI is also required for the cursor. It simply does not work as is. The main reason a cursor doesn't work on consoles is because the sticks are NOT crappy mice, they are high-grade analog ARROW keys. Keep Excel open and then map your mouse cursor to W,A,S,D. See what happens? How would all the PC users feel if mouse support was suddenly removed and you had to use this? And don't say add mouse support. I'm all for that as an option but we should only need one input device for a video game and if I was okay playing with a K&M I'd be grinding through the War Within on my PC account instead of begging to play my Xbox the way it was intended.

 

Also, please map the cursor to the right stick, scroll with triggers, dpad and left stick identical, shoulder bumpers cycle screens, A always affirmative, B always undo/previous, X/Y contextual. No double-click. Shift-click is acceptable if necessary as long as shift is a trigger. If in doubt refer to the native OS.

Edited June 8, 2018 by (XB1)Kavriel

[(PSN)farredm]

On PS4 experiencing multiple issues with this update.

1. The D-Pad does not work navigating through menus. I can no longer use the down arrow button to go down through the list of missions. I have to use the cursor to go through the missions. Very slow & frustrating.  It also does not work from the options menu.  Hit options to try and see profile or leave squad, I cannot use the d-pad, I have to use this virtual cursor. Really?!  This is popping up all over.  Cannot use the d-pad to select relics, have to use cursor.  This cursor is really frustrating and slow. Ugh
2. When changing colors in the Arsenal, you can not rotate the Warframe around.  The cursor no longer cycles through color selections from bottom to top.  If your on the last color going down or to the side use to take you back to the top or beginning of the row.

DE it's cool you come up with new things for users.  But why take away functionality from us players and force us to use something slow and counter-productive?  Come-On Man!?