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(XB1/PS4) Virtual Cursor Feedback Megathread


[DE]Danielle
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Looking at the comments I can't see how it would be any clearer that this UI is not only a downgrade, but doing real brand damage. How it got out the gate in the first place is beyond me. You need a console in-house to test with - both platforms from the sound of it. Forget the new story quest, the UI is a massive priority. Maybe you can just revert to a backup from a week ago? Probably not that simple I know. I guess someone designed the new UI and their feelings will be hurt if its rejected? Well its rejected.

But being a professional is also about not being precious with your designs. Its not personal - it just doesn't improve anything - it makes fun become a mundane chore.

I think trying to 'fix' it is a complete waste of time. It can'y be 'made good' cap'n.

Edited by (PS4)Reubenatrix
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This UI update doesn't look bad at all, In fact it looks great. Where it fails is in usability. On the starchart having a cursor to move around is really the only non-PITA way to move around and it works great. The ENTIRE REST OF THE GAME? Yeah, no bueno. Having to use move the cursor around the screen constantly and select everything when all you need to do is just move up or down and select something? Horrible, painfully horrible. On PC where the normal expectation is that you're using a mouse and keyboard I have no doubt it works great. On a console where the overwhelming majority of players are using a controller? Absolute disaster, total and utter disaster. I have not played in DAYS because it's just such a colossal pain to have to deal with scrolling a cursor around the screen AND scrolling the available choices simultaneously in order to take actions which previously required a simple button tap.

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Checking in (I know all of you care), rolling into the weekend still on strike. Still checking in for dailies, still yearning for a rollback or toggle option for pointer in menus. 0 plat bought this Friday. Gonna be a long weekend. 

*Rings bell* Shame

To be constructive, appreciate the effort all I want is a choice on/off for cursor. 

I rock a Elite controller, not a mouse. 

Xbox 1 x

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From PS4 and about an hour of playing with Mouse and Keyboard here are some things I've found after smashing every key possible. 

- Hacking on Corpus doesn't work. There's no cursor and I'm not seeing anything happen when I move the mouse around. Still. Have to use the controller for those. 

- Shift acts as both roll and sprint. Im pretty sure just pressing it to make it a toggle sprint and removing the roll function would be nothing put a positive change. 

- There is no way to change laodout in the navigation menu with keyboard. Once again, I hit every single key to find it. Nothing. 

- In the Arsenal you can't access Loadout Options or Change Modes by the keyboard. Still gotta use the controller there. 

- While you can pull up the gear wheel in mission, you can't use anything. Includes emotes. 

Overall I am happy with this. The cursor, while slow in menus, isn't unbearable and the mouse and keyboard support is amazing. Just a few tweaks need to be made and then it'll be perfect.

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DE please! I'm not going to reiterate what everyone else has already said as most issues are well covered in this thread.
I am barely playing the game anymore because I just get frustrated.

Please, roll back the recent changes while you look at fixing this.

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I'm pretty much logging in to throw down Sorties and check on how the UI is progressing.

Lot of bugginess with L1/R1 functions in Mods, Arsenal, etc.  Cursor-based Directional Button activity still slower in menus, particulary Arcanes and Weapons.  I shouldn't have to click anything to see what an Arcane does if I've got it highlighted by D-Button or moved the Cursor over it.

It's still just frustrating and unfriendly for controller play.  I log out before it gets me pissy, but that mostly just means I log in periodically to try to enjoy the game and then I don't stick around very long.

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4 hours ago, (PS4)RhabdoMan said:

DE please! I'm not going to reiterate what everyone else has already said as most issues are well covered in this thread.
I am barely playing the game anymore because I just get frustrated.

Please, roll back the recent changes while you look at fixing this.

They won't roll it back, but the best they can do is give us the option to disable it, well, that's what I hope.

Edited by (PS4)DazJnr1888
add a bit more opinion.
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31 minutes ago, (PS4)DazJnr1888 said:

They won't roll it back, but the best they can do is give us the option to disable it.

I disagree.

DE didnt just add the cursor. They changed how the UI works in several interfaces. The D-pad doesnt even work in some areas where it used too. Simply disabling the cursor with the current UI build would break it

 

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Im usually not a fan of complaining about change or getting used to a new system but this one makes everything slower. If im running a sortie i like to change my frame and primary but by the time i switched everybody who doesnt change something is already ready to go and i feel bad about making people wait so i dont change the mods to the enemy type. Used to only be a few clicks now its a major process to change. Hopefully the fix can speed things up a bit

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22 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Lemme make it simple for you to understand. You go into a store to buy a gaming computer. Odds are that the sales rep is going to offer you a thing they refer to as a "desktop". Mainly because it sits on or near a "desk". A desk is usually a flat horizontal surface where you can put things like a "keyboard and mouse" which will either come with or be sold to be used with your "desktop". 

 

If you scroll to the top of the page and read the title of this thread, you may notice that it's not really about people playing on desktops. It's geared towards the experience of people playing on "consoles" where many of us don't sit at a desk to play. 

 

Saying "buy a keyboard and mouse lol" is well and good, but it literally isn't a viable option for many of us. In case you missed it, people even pointed out that they tried to use them, and still had to use buttons on the controller for some actions. 

 

That's part of the problem. The changes made didn't really suit anyone, and took away functionality from players who up to recently were not plagued by all of these issues. 

Saying you want a "universal system" is fine. Saying that you want a "one size fits all" system is an exercise in folly. 

 

As I said before, I'd like to have the option of toggling to a preset that works for the standard controller that most everyone using my system has. I suspect that the xbox players feel the same way. My system does not use a mouse and any control scheme that requires I use the controller to pretend to be using a mouse really is counter productive. 

First of all, you, and all the other die-hard fans of the controller, are not going into a store and buying anything. Warframe is a free game. If you buy something, that means you are voluntarily giving DE money after the fact--after you've already walked out of the "store" you mentioned with your free game. Console gaming will see more keyboard and mouse gaming in the future. Warframe has so many actions to be coded to a controller that it is easier to code them to a keyboard where there are a lot more buttons to select from.

The fact that I say that console gamers as a whole should embrace the keyboard and mouse where and when they can is a far cry from me denying the fact that the implementation wasn't great. I mean, come on...even DE will probably admit that they could have tweaked it a bit more for a week or two before releasing it. 

Your blanket statement that the changes didn't really suit anyone is opinion and NOT fact. The changes suited me just fine. I have no problem with the cursor. Doesn't impact my playing experience in the least. I'm guessing the reason why is because I already game on a PC so I'm used to the idea of gaming on a keyboard and mouse. It impacts me less than someone whose never gamed on a keyboard and mouse. That doesn't take away from my assertion that console gamers should embrace the keyboard. Would I say you should play Final Fantasy Whatever on a keyboard and mouse? No. That style of game doesn't lend itself well to that, whereas Warframe does. Not saying it's mandatory, not saying you have to absolutely believe as I do. Just saying that in my opinion (and it's not a fact), K&M style gaming is better in the case of Warframe.

I don't believe DE is taking a one size fits all mentality. This is how all such updates are rolled out in any MMO. First, they put out the patch, and then it becomes our turn to act, and it becomes incumbent upon us to continue posting in these threads so that people like [DE]Danielle will bring that feedback back to the people who can actually do something about it, which they have been.

"My system does not use a mouse and any control scheme that requires I use the controller to pretend to be using a mouse really is counter productive." 

So...you didn't play any of the Mass Effect games, then? Or Skyrim? Or Fallout 4? All of those use a cursor in-game, and require you to "use the controller to pretend to be using a mouse." Therefore I find this argument specious and irrelevant as many games require just this very thing.

I can appreciate a toggle option for either or. It would be even better if it was automatic so that there was no lag between keyboard and controller when switching, and the cursor auto-faded if it senses that a kyeboard/mouse peripheral is not plugged in.

Edited by TwoWolves
Didn't like the antagonistic nature of the opening statement--not trying to antagonize, trying to establish common ground
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55 minutes ago, TwoWolves said:

First of all, you, and all the other die-hard fans of the controller, are not going into a store and buying anything. Warframe is a free game. If you buy something, that means you are voluntarily giving DE money after the fact--after you've already walked out of the "store" you mentioned with your free game. Console gaming will see more keyboard and mouse gaming in the future. Warframe has so many actions to be coded to a controller that it is easier to code them to a keyboard where there are a lot more buttons to select from.

The fact that I say that console gamers as a whole should embrace the keyboard and mouse where and when they can is a far cry from me denying the fact that the implementation wasn't great. I mean, come on...even DE will probably admit that they could have tweaked it a bit more for a week or two before releasing it. 

Your blanket statement that the changes didn't really suit anyone is opinion and NOT fact. The changes suited me just fine. I have no problem with the cursor. Doesn't impact my playing experience in the least. I'm guessing the reason why is because I already game on a PC so I'm used to the idea of gaming on a keyboard and mouse. It impacts me less than someone whose never gamed on a keyboard and mouse. That doesn't take away from my assertion that console gamers should embrace the keyboard. Would I say you should play Final Fantasy Whatever on a keyboard and mouse? No. That style of game doesn't lend itself well to that, whereas Warframe does. Not saying it's mandatory, not saying you have to absolutely believe as I do. Just saying that in my opinion (and it's not a fact), K&M style gaming is better in the case of Warframe.

I don't believe DE is taking a one size fits all mentality. This is how all such updates are rolled out in any MMO. First, they put out the patch, and then it becomes our turn to act, and it becomes incumbent upon us to continue posting in these threads so that people like [DE]Danielle will bring that feedback back to the people who can actually do something about it, which they have been.

"My system does not use a mouse and any control scheme that requires I use the controller to pretend to be using a mouse really is counter productive." 

So...you didn't play any of the Mass Effect games, then? Or Skyrim? Or Fallout 4? All of those use a cursor in-game, and require you to "use the controller to pretend to be using a mouse." Therefore I find this argument specious and irrelevant as many games require just this very thing.

I can appreciate a toggle option for either or. It would be even better if it was automatic so that there was no lag between keyboard and controller when switching, and the cursor auto-faded if it senses that a kyeboard/mouse peripheral is not plugged in.

By "die hard fans of the controller" I think that you meant to write "customers using consoles". As I already explained, not everyone playing on consoles has a set up that will accommodate the addition of a mouse and keyboard. Believe me I have tried to add one for the chat. It ended up being a non-viable option based on where the controller is, where I am and where the nearest solid horizontal surface is. If you don't understand, try resting your keyboard and mouse on a couch next to you while playing. As others have pointed out, keyboard and mouse as a control scheme for console is not even working for a lot of things. So we're stuck in a place where neither option is currently working fully, having recently been in a place where things used to work well. 

Also, I have to disagree with your "after the fact" part. I paid in money before the changes to the control scheme made the game a downgrade for many of us and still have some of it to use up. Whether I will spend any more money is yet to be determined. I haven't played anything like the amount of time I normally did, and the interface still has issues that decrease my enjoyment from what it was a week ago. I have been trying to work around what I can, and the hotfixes have been amazingly helpful but it's still not there yet. If and when I do decide to "give" them more of my money, it will probably involve going to a virtual store to buy one of the packages of plat just like the first time I did it. 

Regarding playing those other games, no I never played them on a console. I did play them on a PC where I had a mouse that didn't have to pretend to be anything other than what it was. I play warframe on ps4 it's a bit different from playing on the computer. You should try it sometime, maybe you can compare your user experiences on both systems and let me know what you think. It might even make what you find specious on a thread related to the experience of console players, change. 

 

And yeah I really hope that the devs agree with the idea that a universal code set doesn't mean that we are all going to be playing the same way, and build a system that embraces each standardised set of control options while allowing them to have an easier time coding in the long run. 

 

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19 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Hey Tenno, checking in before the weekend to give you an update on what we've been up to with the virtual cursor. The following is a list of priority items we've been working on improving/fixing and will continue work on as most do require a lot of testing and fine tuning:

  • Improving the navigating speed in certain menus when using the D-Pad. 
  • Fixing the D-Pad skipping over items in menu lists.
  • Fixing the D-Pad not working in the World State Window. 
  • Fixing the D-Pad landing on invisible menu items (this affects menus across the game, so will require quite a bit of time to test).
  • Fixing being unable to use RB/R1 and LB/R2 quick buttons in any menu if you close the pause menu in Navigation while the matchmaking drop-down bar is open.
  • Fixing being unable to select player list options in chat when using the D-Pad.

We can't say enough how much we appreciate your feedback and bug reporting. As always you guys are a tremendous part of Warframe's growth! 

 

What is the intended behavior of the d-pad in scrollable lists (ex. choosing primary weapon in arsenal)?

Currently the d-pad behaves like the left stick and pushing down on the last displayed row jumps to another ui element instead of scrolling.

 I would prefer having the d-pad behave like the right stick and scroll the list. Selecting row/column is much more precise/comfortable with the d-pad.

You can't navigate soley with the d-pad anyway, since I can't choose my weapon currently without the right stick, requiring the left stick to move out of the scrollable area is the less onerous choice.

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14 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Your right, my bad. This thread should only contain constructive criticism not positive or negative opinions with no bearing. 

I would like the V. Cursor to automatically center on the gear wheel when its opened in a mission.

The old style gear wheel should return. We need to access this quickly, it needs to be optimized for a controller when no mouse is present. Menus are one thing, adversely impacting game play must be avoided. 

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1 hour ago, (PS4)Elvenbane said:

The old style gear wheel should return. We need to access this quickly, it needs to be optimized for a controller when no mouse is present. Menus are one thing, adversely impacting game play must be avoided. 

This also needs to be the same for fishing in the plains. The changes to the fishing gear setup with my current controls currently don't allow me to swap my fishing items. 

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2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

By "die hard fans of the controller" I think that you meant to write "customers using consoles". As I already explained, not everyone playing on consoles has a set up that will accommodate the addition of a mouse and keyboard. Believe me I have tried to add one for the chat. It ended up being a non-viable option based on where the controller is, where I am and where the nearest solid horizontal surface is. If you don't understand, try resting your keyboard and mouse on a couch next to you while playing. As others have pointed out, keyboard and mouse as a control scheme for console is not even working for a lot of things. So we're stuck in a place where neither option is currently working fully, having recently been in a place where things used to work well. 

Also, I have to disagree with your "after the fact" part. I paid in money before the changes to the control scheme made the game a downgrade for many of us and still have some of it to use up. Whether I will spend any more money is yet to be determined. I haven't played anything like the amount of time I normally did, and the interface still has issues that decrease my enjoyment from what it was a week ago. I have been trying to work around what I can, and the hotfixes have been amazingly helpful but it's still not there yet. If and when I do decide to "give" them more of my money, it will probably involve going to a virtual store to buy one of the packages of plat just like the first time I did it. 

Regarding playing those other games, no I never played them on a console. I did play them on a PC where I had a mouse that didn't have to pretend to be anything other than what it was. I play warframe on ps4 it's a bit different from playing on the computer. You should try it sometime, maybe you can compare your user experiences on both systems and let me know what you think. It might even make what you find specious on a thread related to the experience of console players, change. 

 

And yeah I really hope that the devs agree with the idea that a universal code set doesn't mean that we are all going to be playing the same way, and build a system that embraces each standardised set of control options while allowing them to have an easier time coding in the long run. 

 

I like how you didn't address the games that have a UI that lends itself to K&M, like Mass Effect, Skyrim and Fallout 4. Warframe was built for PC. It got ported to PS4 but the UI was first and foremost designed for keyboards and mice. 

Also, what, you're on the couch and can't be bothered to rest a keyboard across your lap? I do it all the time. It annoys me that all the keyboard shortcuts haven't been implemented yet and that I have to use the controller to do some things. If that would get fixed, I'd use both equally, but never at the same time.

And the long term trend in anything is always to make it simpler, easier, faster, and better. Coding is no different.

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52 minutes ago, TwoWolves said:

Also, what, you're on the couch and can't be bothered to rest a keyboard across your lap? I do it all the time. It annoys me that all the keyboard shortcuts haven't been implemented yet and that I have to use the controller to do some things. If that would get fixed, I'd use both equally, but never at the same time.

 

No, in fact, I cannot be "bothered" to rest a keyboard across my lap.

We are console players using controllers to play this game.

None of our other console games require us to additionally use a keyboard to play them, why should this one?

I understand that some console players may welcome having the choice to integrate use of a K&M into their play and good on them, but that's what it should be: a choice.

The majority of us console players only use a controller and our ability to do so, and to comfortably and quickly accomplish things in the menus/gear wheel/foundry/arsenal/mod window/relic reward selection/world map/etc. should not be taken away from us.

 

Maybe it's true that better things regarding the UI are coming down the pike, but the point right now is: This half-measure should never have been released in this state.

It has broken things that were not broken before and made most things much more complicated to accomplish.

 

In addition, none of us signed up to be DE's Beta Testers. I'm sure they would've had volunteers had they asked.

As things currently are, my playtime has seen a significant drop and it's likely to stay that way for the foreseeable future.

 

@[DE]Steve@[DE]Megan@[DE]Danielle@[DE]Rebecca

 

 

 

Edited by (PS4)xarienne
Typo.
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36 minutes ago, TwoWolves said:

I like how you didn't address the games that have a UI that lends itself to K&M, like Mass Effect, Skyrim and Fallout 4. Warframe was built for PC. It got ported to PS4 but the UI was first and foremost designed for keyboards and mice. 

Also, what, you're on the couch and can't be bothered to rest a keyboard across your lap? I do it all the time. It annoys me that all the keyboard shortcuts haven't been implemented yet and that I have to use the controller to do some things. If that would get fixed, I'd use both equally, but never at the same time.

And the long term trend in anything is always to make it simpler, easier, faster, and better. Coding is no different.

Dude. Are you for real? We are on console. We play with a controller. Period. I won't play with a keyboard on my lap just for one game. I'll play on my PC if I want that.

 

I don't know why but your replies are making me furious. Who cares if it was a port from PC? It does not excuse the poor UI design. You know why? Because plenty of games do it extremely well and also, you know.. it was fine before the update.

 

No. You will not see more mouse and keyboard on consoles. This is not what consoles are for. 

I want to come home , sit on my couch, turn that thing on and play. I don't want a clunky mouse and keyboard on my lap.

 

They decided to port it. And it comes with responsibility. Make your game compatible to the hardware you are porting it to. 

 

Hell, even Diablo 3 managed it. And Warframe was all good and dandy Util they decided to roll out an untested broken update. Some people lack motor skills, are handicapped or whatever that they need a controller. I won't have 4 items on my lap just to play Warframe. Sorry.

I come from PC. And I love it way better on ps4.

 

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52 minutes ago, TwoWolves said:

I like how you didn't address the games that have a UI that lends itself to K&M, like Mass Effect, Skyrim and Fallout 4. Warframe was built for PC. It got ported to PS4 but the UI was first and foremost designed for keyboards and mice. 

Also, what, you're on the couch and can't be bothered to rest a keyboard across your lap? I do it all the time. It annoys me that all the keyboard shortcuts haven't been implemented yet and that I have to use the controller to do some things. If that would get fixed, I'd use both equally, but never at the same time.

And the long term trend in anything is always to make it simpler, easier, faster, and better. Coding is no different.

Dude. Are you for real? We are on console. We play with a controller. Period. I won't play with a keyboard on my lap just for one game. I'll play on my PC if I want that.

 

I don't know why but your replies are making me furious. Who cares if it was a port from PC? It does not excuse the poor UI design. You know why? Because plenty of games do it extremely well and also, you know.. it was fine before the update.

 

No. You will not see more mouse and keyboard on consoles. This is not what consoles are for. 

I want to come home , sit on my couch, turn that thing on and play. I don't want a clunky mouse and keyboard on my lap.

 

They decided to port it. And it comes with responsibility. Make your game compatible to the hardware you are porting it to. 

 

Hell, even Diablo 3 managed it. And Warframe was all good and dandy Util they decided to roll out an untested broken update. Some people lack motor skills, are handicapped or whatever that they need a controller. I won't have 4 items on my lap just to play Warframe. Sorry.

I come from PC. And I love it way better on ps4.

 

Edited by (PS4)DaxInvader
Double post bug. Sorry.
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32 minutes ago, (PS4)xarienne said:

 

No, in fact, I cannot be "bothered" to rest a keyboard across my lap.

We are console players using controllers to play this game.

None of our other console games require us to additionally use a keyboard to play them, why should this one?

I understand that some console players may welcome having the choice to integrate use of a K&M into their play and good on them, but that's what it should be: a choice.

The majority of us console players only use a controller and our ability to do so, and to comfortably and quickly accomplish things in the menus/gear wheel/foundry/arsenal/mod window/relic reward selection/world map/etc. should not be taken away from us.

 

Maybe it's true that better things regarding the UI are coming down the pike, but the point right now is: This half-measure should never have been released in this state.

It has broken things there were not broken before and made most things much more complicated to accomplish.

 

In addition, none of us signed up to be DE's Beta Testers. I'm sure they would've had volunteers had they asked.

As things currently are, my playtime has seen a significant drop and it's likely to stay that way for the foreseeable future.

 

@[DE]Steve @[DE]Megan @[DE]Danielle @[DE]Rebecca

 

 

 

The first three sentences smack of self-entitlement. Why? Because of the rest of it. It already is a choice. Having a cursor on the screen hasn't stopped me or slowed me down one wit, and I've been using nothing but the controller for days now, just to prove a point: 

It still is a choice.

Here's where the self-entitlement comes in. You actually did sign up to be DE's beta testers if you read the fine print very carefully. Every single person who plays this game has their console computer (since you like to say "console" so much, even though it's still a computer at the end of the day) sending DE telemetry on their game via the servers you are playing on, and that information, while anonymized, contains things like play time, weapons used, etc. Therefore, you have no more right to dictate to DE how to integrate any peripheral into their game as they see fit. You don't want to be bothered to rest a keyboard across your lap because you're a console gamer (as if that means anything--pretty sure just because you're a console gamer doesn't mean the rest of us have to game the way you do)? Fine. Then don't complain when DE offers the choice of using a keyboard while working out the bugs. We should feel grateful they released that option at all while allowing us to see it's progression in live time as they release patches. Seriously, your argument is akin to throwing a tantrum and saying, I don't like the new UI, I'm not playing at all because it's not what I want. All because you don't like how the new UI "feels" and want to complain about how it slows things down, which comes down to what? A few seconds extra? Not really immersion-breaking.

And as for the broken argument, I've not noticed a single thing broken on my end, and aside from the change in how I scroll through UI menus, there's zero difference to me in my play style while using a controller so your argument is moot. What did you expect would happen as Sony tries to compete with Microsoft? That the keyboard would simply fall to the wayside and we'd all have VR suits and be playing Skyrim in 42K resolution by now? Pff. The controller as it looks now is on it's way out because game designers know it's too limited in functionality, and you can only cram so many buttons onto it before it becomes unwieldy and unusable.

I can't help but feel you are trying to make this into a console vs pc master race argument. As I've said before in other posts, though, a console is a computer, period, it's just not a PC. And whether or not you are console gamers has nothing to do with how DE chooses to implement new peripherals. Just because you use a keyboard and mouse with a console doesn't mean you're suddenly a PC gamer, so that bit of insinuation is patently ridiculous. 

You must not have played Mass Effect or Skyrim or Fallout 4 on the console, then, or at all, really. 

18 minutes ago, (PS4)DaxInvader said:

Dude. Are you for real? We are on console. We play with a controller. Period. I won't play with a keyboard on my lap just for one game. I'll play on my PC if I want that.

I don't know why but your replies are making me furious. Who cares if it was a port from PC? It does not excuse the poor UI design. You know why? Because plenty of games do it extremely well and also, you know.. it was fine before the update.

No. You will not see more mouse and keyboard on consoles. This is not what consoles are for. 

I want to come home , sit on my couch, turn that thing on and play. I don't want a clunky mouse and keyboard on my lap.

They decided to port it. And it comes with responsibility. Make your game compatible to the hardware you are porting it to. 

Hell, even Diablo 3 managed it. And Warframe was all good and dandy Util they decided to roll out an untested broken update. Some people lack motor skills, are handicapped or whatever that they need a controller. I won't have 4 items on my lap just to play Warframe. Sorry.

I come from PC. And I love it way better on ps4.

Your PC must have been terrible. Graphics are better, more games, etc, etc. (Not going to be derailed by that specious argument)

Your argument is moot for one simple reason.

Sony has always intended to make the PlayStation into an entertainment system that can be used to not only play games, but stream movies, chat, email your friends and more. This is Sony's in and why they are competing with Microsoft and offering Hulu and Netflix and PlayStation Vue on the home screen. Therefore, Sony most certainly did have in mind a keyboard and mouse peripheral planned out long in advance. Consoles are not for gaming exclusively anymore. 

You get to demand nothing from DE whether or not you paid. When you signed that contract, your "rights" to demand anything other than that they deliver to you the product (Warframe) in a playable state vanished. And there is no argument in the world you can make to say that the game is broken to the point of being unplayable.

Edited by TwoWolves
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il y a 22 minutes, TwoWolves a dit :

The first three sentences smack of self-entitlement. Why? Because of the rest of it. It already is a choice. Having a cursor on the screen hasn't stopped me or slowed me down one wit, and I've been using nothing but the controller for days now, just to prove a point: 

It still is a choice.

Here's where the self-entitlement comes in. You actually did sign up to be DE's beta testers if you read the fine print very carefully. Every single person who plays this game has their console computer (since you like to say "console" so much, even though it's still a computer at the end of the day) sending DE telemetry on their game via the servers you are playing on, and that information, while anonymized, contains things like play time, weapons used, etc. Therefore, you have no more right to dictate to DE how to integrate any peripheral into their game as they see fit. You don't want to be bothered to rest a keyboard across your lap because you're a console gamer (as if that means anything--pretty sure just because you're a console gamer doesn't mean the rest of us have to game the way you do)? Fine. Then don't complain when DE offers the choice of using a keyboard while working out the bugs. We should feel grateful they released that option at all while allowing us to see it's progression in live time as they release patches. Seriously, your argument is akin to throwing a tantrum and saying, I don't like the new UI, I'm not playing at all because it's not what I want. All because you don't like how the new UI "feels" and want to complain about how it slows things down, which comes down to what? A few seconds extra? Not really immersion-breaking.

And as for the broken argument, I've not noticed a single thing broken on my end, and aside from the change in how I scroll through UI menus, there's zero difference to me in my play style while using a controller so your argument is moot. What did you expect would happen as Sony tries to compete with Microsoft? That the keyboard would simply fall to the wayside and we'd all have VR suits and be playing Skyrim in 42K resolution by now? Pff. The controller as it looks now is on it's way out because game designers know it's too limited in functionality, and you can only cram so many buttons onto it before it becomes unwieldy and unusable.

I can't help but feel you are trying to make this into a console vs pc master race argument. As I've said before in other posts, though, a console is a computer, period, it's just not a PC. And whether or not you are console gamers has nothing to do with how DE chooses to implement new peripherals. Just because you use a keyboard and mouse with a console doesn't mean you're suddenly a PC gamer, so that bit of insinuation is patently ridiculous. 

You must not have played Mass Effect or Skyrim or Fallout 4 on the console, then, or at all, really. 

Your PC must have been terrible. Graphics are better, more games, etc, etc. (Not going to be derailed by that specious argument)

Your argument is moot for one simple reason.

Sony has always intended to make the PlayStation into an entertainment system that can be used to not only play games, but stream movies, chat, email your friends and more. This is Sony's in and why they are competing with Microsoft and offering Hulu and Netflix and PlayStation Vue on the home screen. Therefore, Sony most certainly did have in mind a keyboard and mouse peripheral planned out long in advance. Consoles are not for gaming exclusively anymore. 

You get to demand nothing from DE whether or not you paid. When you signed that contract, your "rights" to demand anything other than that they deliver to you the product (Warframe) in a playable state vanished. And there is no argument in the world you can make to say that the game is broken to the point of being unplayable.

As someone else said earlier, do you listen to yourself when you talk? Just because Sony is including streaming options, chat, and email, doesn't mean it's turning the PS4 into a computer. And yes, I do differentiate. I have played all three of your examples, and on console, yet they didn't have the /requirement/ of using a mouse-style cursor. I could just as easily use my D-Pad for most of the options, but even with the recent hotfixes, the D-Pad functionality on console for Warframe has been terrible; it bugs out, won't let us do half of what we used to be able to do in less than half the time, and it doesn't feel as streamlined as the original UI was. Yes, feel is important to gamers. I don't need to use a keyboard on any other game I have that was 'ported from a computer to console', because they streamlined the shortcuts or added options for controller functionality to be more efficient.

 And to turn the question around, have you played Warframe on PS4 in this current state? If not, then please, go back to your PC feedback thread and stop trolling. Again, as someone else said, we're not all sitting at a desk where the keyboard and mouse are in easy reach; I have to sit about ten-fifteen feet away from where my console is hooked up to my TV, because of how my living room and bedroom are set up. I can't afford a wireless keyboard and mouse; to put a ten-foot cord across a room that not only I use and to require additional peripherals like that for a game that DID NOT REQUIRE THEM BEFORE is just nonsense. It'd be like if you were playing Skyrim or Mass Effect and suddenly it required you to use a Wiimote or something equally gimmicky, just for that one game. Worse, when you do use that peripheral, it doesn't work as well as what you were doing, and the developers say that they're just outright not going to revert it.

All most of us are asking for is a way to go back to the streamlined and efficient experience we had. The hotfix to return shortcuts to the arsenal menu was a good start in the right direction, but most of us were happy with the way it was. Most console gamers aren't looking for a PC experience, especially because we like using a controller over K&M. If I wanted to waste another $500-$1000 on a laptop that would just be out of date within a few months, then that'd be on me. But we buy a console because they are a lasting way of gaming. I've had my PS4 since the March after they came out, so 2014. It has not crapped out on me once, and I have not had a single decrease in playability of any of the games I've had for it. Meanwhile, one of my friends has had to go through FIVE PROFESSIONAL-GRADE laptops in the same amount of time, just to keep playing all his PC games.

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