(XB1/PS4) Virtual Cursor Feedback Megathread

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

I don't know why DE keeps taking away features but in this update they took away the Triangle/Y button shortcut that allows you to change your matchmaking type from Public/Friends/Invite/Solo.

I went to do my Cephalon Simaris farm last night, hit options and then triangle to switch to Solo and nothing happened. At first I thought I did something wrong, then I realized that the muscle memory that DE spent years teaching us was removed.

Stupid is as stupid does and this is yet another example of why DE doesn't understand the needs of players using a controller as their only input device. So now if I want to leave squad, view loadouts of other players, or change the matchmaking type I have to move the cursor over to the top left corner and try to select the tiny icons whereas before I could: 1) hit options, push up once, press X (>1s), 2) hit options and just look at the loadouts (just about instant), or 3) hit options, press triangle, push down 1-3 times, then press X (>2s). Heck, I can barely find the cursor in >2s now.

This just solidifies the notion that while DE is a fantastic game developer, they are complete rubbish at UI design, especially for consoles.

Edited July 6, 2018 by (PS4)Hiero_Glyph

[(XBOX)Charizard314268]

It says that there is an update and i beed to update it and it still says that and doesnt let me dp my missions pls help i really want to play.

This all happened after athe Sacrafice update.

Edited July 7, 2018 by (XB1)Charizard314268

[(XBOX)Kavriel]

Starting to think the real reason they cursored the UI is to make the backdrop shift when you move the mouse. Could've mapped it to the right stick and it'd be nifty, but the 'holographic projection' theme of the old UI was cooler and fit better not just with the lore but with immersion.

What's the point in closing the menus off with backdrops? In trying to avoid a spreadsheet simulator they've so far only taken steps closer.

 

If you wanted a cool artistic interface that matched the theme of the game, look at 'Escape from Butcher Bay' on Xbox. 

Then, imagine your warframe projected into the palm of your hand whenever you press start.

Tilting left and either up or down on the left stick will select weapons as if in the arsenal, while unable to change during a mission, each would display information on the item when highlighted. A changes item, X for appearance any Y for mods.

 Tilting up would do the same for frame, and right would show gear in vertical order and additionally allow their use if in mission.  The right stick would rotate the projected frame and zoom by clicking.

Left trigger switches the display to four quadrants, each showing the equipment of a squad member in full. Selecting a quadrant allows additional options for that player such as mute or profile. Additionally, this panel could include running stats such as percentage of damage dealt or current status effects, making it useful for 'support' style play.

Bumping over to the third pane with right trigger, you'd find a mirror of the arsenal pane but for operator (if unlocked), and another for landing craft if onboard. Alternatively, mesh all three of these into the second pane by allowing shoulder buttons to switch between them.

The final pane would be the options menu, but additional panes could be added for companions, vehicles, mailbox, market, codex or whatever other cool features that might be added one day.

 

I'll never find the quote but I remember reading a decade or two ago that the golden rule of console UI's is that nothing should ever be more than three clicks away (including scrolling and selecting) and that cursors mapped to a joystick were a big no-no. This takes that into consideration and is easily expandable, copies themes already present in the game, and best of all is always in the palm of your hand. When onboard the orbiter the respective panes can be triggered by the action button and centered on the relevant ship components instead of your hand.

Bonus is there's no cursor in sight unless you plug in a mouse, and then anything selectable can also be clicked. Fully compatible with and identical on all platforms.

 

Edited July 7, 2018 by (XB1)Kavriel
Misplaced censorship. Even the forum scripting is juvenile.

[(PSN)Xenotoxic]

Since the cursor snaps to buttons with the d-pad, you should be able to emulate the feeling of the old UI for consoles by giving us the option to turn off free cursor movement. To clarify, that means the only places the cursor can move are buttons/options on the screen.

The main reason I dislike this change is because you did not offer us an alternative. Since you have no intention of rolling it back, I'd like to request the change I mentioned above to be added to the new UI functionality.

I'm sorry that this change is receiving negative feedback from us console folk, but when you make a product for your audience, you need to keep them in mind when you make changes to it.

[(PSN)Croewe]

Seriously it had been almost a month and all they've done is iron out some bugs. We need to have a legacy option. I understand it makes it easier for you guys to code with the UI being the same across platforms but there is a reason that it is different in the first place. Honestly whoever did the initial ui testing needs to have their position examined since that update had led me and many others to basically stop playing since everything takes 3x as long.

 

I know this is going to be taken down or merged or whatever but seriously I'd like to hear why de refuses to add some sort of legacy version of the UI. Outside the sacrifice I haven't really played the game at all. So please de just respond to us and say why. Or do we need to get Jim Sterling to do a video everytime we want a response?

 

Edit: And within 5 minutes it's been put in the trashbin and no one from DE will ever read or care about this. Not long till this thread is unpinned and no one will talk about it again.

Edited July 8, 2018 by (PS4)Chris_Robet

[(PSN)x-SCARDUST-x]

The new system really is getting in the way all the time. I even cannot select some missions because they are out of the current screen. I have to zoom out and be lucky to even select it. That makes no sense. On Eris as example I cannot select Brugia because it is out of the screen. 

[(PSN)Firebrandd]

On 2018-07-05 at 10:10 PM, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

Because those UI themes are 50p each.

Oh ffs. Why do we need UI themes *at all* was my question. 

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Firebrandd said:

Oh ffs. Why do we need UI themes *at all* was my question. 

And my answer remains the same. It's just another layer that they can charge the player for; think of them as color palettes or skins for the UI. How long before we get a deluxe theme? Or Warframe specific ones (more than Equinox being high contrast)? You want a different background or sound effect, DE has a way to charge you for that.

[(XBOX)NeoGuardian77]

Its getting to the point where DE are just throwing what they want their player base to be at us and saying to accept it. In the new update I was hoping they would have reverted at least half of the UI controls but no they don't care, and from what I've seen they're starting to look like Bungie or take a page from their book in their antics for trying to monetize things, which is throwing up red flags for me. So since I've waited a month and things have not changed, I'm effectively immediately leaving warframe to die on console. So this is goodbye DE its been a wonderful 4 years but with your UI bull you can shove it.

[(PSN)Hooligonzo]

Game still feels like I went back 30 years to play Uninvited and Shadow Gate on the NES.
 

 

[(PSN)Firebrandd]

20 hours ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

And my answer remains the same. It's just another layer that they can charge the player for; think of them as color palettes or skins for the UI. How long before we get a deluxe theme? Or Warframe specific ones (more than Equinox being high contrast)? You want a different background or sound effect, DE has a way to charge you for that.

Oh okay, now I understand you. That sadly makes too much sense.  Sad part? The themes are just color variations of two or three patterns. 

Edited July 9, 2018 by (PS4)Firebrandd

[(XBOX)DrAz3rty]

Im an Xbox One player and I only have one problem: 

The button to talk is the same button to accept invites...

[(XBOX)HorusAstartes01]

Initially I hated the new button config and curser but I got used to it still would be better if I could actually use a mouse and keyboard on console but I make do. But since the sacrifice update there's no shortcut for public, solo, private selection or easily being able to see other team members loadouts, also leaving a squad is annoying af since I need to move a slowish curser over a small image and if I select a high lvl mission and some trolly newb cancels it and picks something else the dam thing starts before I even have chance to cancel or leave squad

[(PSN)Firebrandd]

DE, stop giving us glittery turds and give us what worked back. F U C K this new S#&$. I don't give a damn what is a pain in the ass for the dev team. Playability should come before expensive, pointless, UNASKED FOR themes. DE, you said that you implemented the cursor because it was "heavily requested" yet you won't walk it back or offer the promise that you will give us a toggle even though that seems to be even MORE requested. No, you toss us a pretty bone and slap us in the face.

[(XBOX)Sedit This]

DE has already shown their unwillingness to listen to us. Instead, they cherry picked from the few people who like this mess of a UI and did minor fixes. DE no longer cares about its core playerbase, if they did, this thread wouldn't be 77 pages of people mostly still trying to get them to listen. DE has chosen to ignore us for their own gains, the same way Activision and EA have done and we know how those companies treat their core fans. Unless we stop spending money on plat and Prime access, DE will never actually listen to us.

[(PSN)FurryZenJustice]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Sedit This said:

DE has already shown their unwillingness to listen to us. Instead, they cherry picked from the few people who like this mess of a UI and did minor fixes. DE no longer cares about its core playerbase, if they did, this thread wouldn't be 77 pages of people mostly still trying to get them to listen. DE has chosen to ignore us for their own gains, the same way Activision and EA have done and we know how those companies treat their core fans. Unless we stop spending money on plat and Prime access, DE will never actually listen to us.

Everyone claims to be the core player base and it's really annoying. Lots of people were talking. Lots of people had different opinions and none represent a "core" anything. We're all just players and they're game designers and people spoke. They have listened -- maybe not specifically to you -- but they have listened. And they're back on track to making something I enjoy. Claiming to belong to be the "core" audience is basically a way of saying that your's is the voice of the majority -- typically without proof -- and that everyone else's opinion is therefore unimportant. 77 pages of anything -- given that it's typically the same people arguing -- is a drop in the bucket for the player base. ~100k unique players on steam in the same 24 hour period vs. what < 1,000 people posting on this issue. Yes, it's bad and the opinions of the players matter, but the vast majority of players have said nothing on the issue, either positive or negative. The "core" player base is actually pretty silent on the issue.

[(XBOX)Sedit This]

1 minute ago, (PS4)FurryZenJustice said:

Everyone claims to be the core player base and it's really annoying. Lots of people were talking. Lots of people had different opinions and none represent a "core" anything. We're all just players and they're game designers and people spoke. They have listened -- maybe not specifically to you -- but they have listened. And they're back on track to making something I enjoy. Claiming to belong to be the "core" audience is basically a way of saying that your's is the voice of the majority -- typically without proof -- and that everyone else's opinion is therefore unimportant. 77 pages of anything -- given that it's typically the same people arguing -- is a drop in the bucket for the player base. ~100k unique players on steam in the same 24 hour period vs. what < 1,000 people posting on this issue. Yes, it's bad and the opinions of the players matter, but the vast majority of players have said nothing on the issue, either positive or negative. The "core" player base is actually pretty silent on the issue.

Between this thread, Twitter, and the Region Chat in-game, a great many players have spoken up about this. The first 48 hours were the most vocal. The first 24 hours and this thread went from one post to 46 pages. This thread is a month old and still growing, yes a few of us have made multiple posts and had conversations/disagreements about how many actually don't like the UI. I can't say for anyone else, but I have read all 77 pages, as they were happening. We will never have an accurate number of players who dislike the changes and have complaints, due to the simple fact that most gamers are used to getting screwed over and are unwilling to voice their opinions because they don't think it will do any good. DE was the exception to that up until this UI Unification Theory. There has been a huge outcry against this (and there still is), this one thread on this one forum isn't the only place people have been trying to get their voices heard.

[(PSN)FurryZenJustice]

5 minutes ago, (XB1)Sedit This said:

Between this thread, Twitter, and the Region Chat in-game, a great many players have spoken up about this. The first 48 hours were the most vocal. The first 24 hours and this thread went from one post to 46 pages. This thread is a month old and still growing, yes a few of us have made multiple posts and had conversations/disagreements about how many actually don't like the UI. I can't say for anyone else, but I have read all 77 pages, as they were happening. We will never have an accurate number of players who dislike the changes and have complaints, due to the simple fact that most gamers are used to getting screwed over and are unwilling to voice their opinions because they don't think it will do any good. DE was the exception to that up until this UI Unification Theory. There has been a huge outcry against this (and there still is), this one thread on this one forum isn't the only place people have been trying to get their voices heard.

I've also read all the threads here and most of the ones on Twitter. I know the outcry has been there, but comments indicate that some people feel strongly about this change. I, personally, found it annoying. But if 1,000 people hated it and came on here to complain, doesn't mean the other 99,000 did as well. That's not how samples and statistics work. All we can tell is that some people feel very strongly about it. While there is typically a correlation between the number of people who complain and the number of people who have a problem, it's dangerous to presume that it's the case always. DE should have metrics and other mechanisms for getting at the truth of how liked or disliked this feature is.

I play Warframe on console exclusively. This change has affected me negatively, but I cannot presume that my experience is the only one. I'm not saying you should like it or that I find this change good. What I'm saying is that there is danger in users presuming that they represent the "core" or that somehow the "core" is more entitled to what it wants. This issue is multi-faceted and a plurality may be willing to make sacrifices. Given that a huge number of players play with keyboard and mouse, I imagine that the majority doesn't even have an opinion on the virtual cursor because they'll never see it. Console players are important, but our needs do come at the cost of resources that come from the whole. It's always a balancing act.

In this case, I think the increased efficiency that the unified control scheme gives them means that they'll be able to iterate on the new UI a lot faster than before. They've got over 100 screens to update and having a single code-base is going to make that a lot faster. It means a bunch of console players are going to be unhappy, but that unhappiness will likely be addressed over time as they get actionable feedback and actually have time to work on it.

Preparing for Tennocon apparently ate their development time for the last several months. They were frantically trying to get the Railjack demo up and running for Tennocon, which apparently almost got cut until the team came together and worked lots of long hours to make it a reality. Tennocon is over and they'll probably need some recuperation time, but I expect them to get back onto this. Also apparently everyone complaining that it had been weeks and nothing was being done didn't realize that the bug fixes were going to be coming with Sacrifice since it doesn't make sense to make duplicate changes in the current code and the upcoming code branches since it just halves the number of fixes you can make in the same period of time.

DE made a mistake in timing and execution. Then they had to put everything into Tennocon for a couple months while working their a**es off. After the mistake was already made, it really came down to two choices. Ditch the Railjack demo or spend time on the virtual cursor issue. I know which one I'd pick and it was the same as them. And, frankly, I would rather they take a little time to figure out a good UX strategy and how to communicate it than try and throw something together in an attempt to appease people. There is goodness in them waiting to tell us what they're going to do after they actually figure it out. If anything, the era of 24 hour news that prioritizes being fast over being accurate should teach us that sometimes we just need to wait a little bit.

[TwoWolves]

51 minutes ago, (PS4)FurryZenJustice said:

--snip--

 

Seriously. They locked their Sacrifice feedback mega thread without actually locking it (so you can see the lock symbol in the forum list) so that people would stop complaining and sh*tposting on their thread because of the degree of absolute trash that Sacrifice turned out to be, giving them plausible deniability, and then turned around and began deleting any posts pointing this out in other threads. 

All that, and you expect DE to have any credibility any more? All that, and you still persist in white-knighting for DE, even though they are demonstrably censoring negative reviews to supress actual opinions?

The time has long passed when people still defending DE have any credibility; theirs is washed away by the simple act of defending the indefensible. DE screwed up, period. And now, they're going to watch their fan base erode as they try to squeeze every last drop of money out of the machine by selling worthless baubles and trinkets like new "themes" and "skins" for your frame. 

To the people buying this sh*t: Are you for real? How ignorant do you have to be to not realize you're being had? How complacent can you be that you would allow them to turn out crapware for the money you're spending? STOP BUYING THEIR JUNK!!

[(PSN)FurryZenJustice]

4 minutes ago, TwoWolves said:

All that, and you still persist in white-knighting for DE

I think if you read my many posts in the past 77 pages you'll see that I've been pretty consistent in that DE screwed up. That the UX is objectively bad -- though frequently for a different reason than people think. As a UX programmer, I also tried to take an educated guess as to how we got here and what would be the most helpful in terms of players getting what they want. At no point have I stated that the changes were good for me, personally or that I preferred the new UX. That said, there are people who legitimately do like the new cursor. I'm not one of them, but hey -- to each their own.

I also know that developers are people and being yelled at by faceless people isn't nearly as effective as just clearly stating what parts you like and dislike.

But if you're determined to presume these changes were a result of direct malice and not just a mistake, I doubt there's anything I could say to change your mind. I know there are certain realities to development and frequently a development team can be forced into making the worst of a bad situation. And often it's because the mistake was made months ago and there's nothing you can do about it now except learn from it and move forward towards a solution. I doubt that DE strays too much from the industry as a whole where game developers often burn out from too much overtime.

And, yeah, if you legitimately think that DE has committed a boycott-able offense, you should do so along with anyone else who agrees. But having a different viewpoint and presuming someone made a mistake, or many, and are honestly trying to rectify the situation doesn't make someone a white knight. It just means some people -- like myself -- aren't so fast to presume malice and are willing to give them time to fix their mistake.

[(PSN)The_Wyatt]

1 hour ago, (PS4)FurryZenJustice said:

But if 1,000 people hated it and came on here to complain, doesn't mean the other 99,000 did as well. That's not how samples and statistics work.

Samples and statistics? Like how the ratio of people in this thread who are positive about these changes versus those who are not (adjusted by the level of expressed enthusiasm) gives us a pretty clear understanding that this is a very poor situation? Everyone here is self-selected from the population of forum users, which will, with caveats (such as the ever-present bias toward negative feedback), map to the player base at-large.  (Not that it's honestly needed to get a sense for the prevailing winds of the discourse in this case.)

I get that you're preaching forgiveness and moderation (which is a good thing, honestly) and speculating on difficulties they're having but, seeing as you also work in the field, I'm surprised you feel the need to defend them so much.  It's difficult stuff, yes, but the DE folks aren't greenhorn amateur-hour rejects.

...I still want to know what possessed them to do things like this when the new UI isn't even nearly complete. I legitimately hope they do a post-mortem on it at some point.

[TwoWolves]

1 hour ago, (PS4)FurryZenJustice said:

But if you're determined to presume these changes were a result of direct malice CORPORATE GREED and not just a mistake, I doubt there's anything I could say to change your mind. I know there are certain realities to development and frequently a development team can be forced into making the worst of a bad situation. And often it's because the mistake was made months ago and there's nothing you can do about it now except learn from it and move forward towards a solution. I doubt that DE strays too much from the industry as a whole where game developers often burn out from too much overtime.

And, yeah, if you legitimately think that DE has committed a boycott-able offense, you should do so along with anyone else who agrees. But having a different viewpoint and presuming someone made a mistake, or many, and are honestly trying to rectify the situation doesn't make someone a white knight. It just means some people -- like myself -- aren't so fast to presume malice CORPORATE GREED and are willing to give them time to fix their mistake.

 

Don't worry. I fixed it for you.

I don't presume malice. I presume idiocy and corporate greed. Boardroom says, "Hey, how can we squeeze more money out of the customer base this quarter?" "Oh, I know! We can sell them cosmetics that have zero effect in-game and will distract those complaining about the abortion called Sacrifice we pushed out! That way, the shiny colors and bright lights will confuse and defuse them!"

Yes, just like that. There is no way you can convince me that conversation did not take place in some form at some time in DE's boardroom. If it can be monetized, it will be monetized. All to distract and shift the focus away from their trashy updates. 

No, I get that you're not white-knighting, and I have read your posts, but there are a lot of people who are. Telling us how the devs worked their asses off means nothing to me. I don't give a flying rat's ass about how hard they worked. As a consumer, that's not my problem. My only concern is the end product, and that end product has been losing quality the way a gambling addict loses money in Vegas for years. The only reason they worked as hard as they did is because they are busy trying to shove a square peg into a round hole. That is why they closed off commenting on their Sacrifice thread after the first four pages were (shocking, I know) nothing but complaints about how cheap it felt, and how it wasn't worth the wait. And within 24 hours, they were already hot-fixing it. 

Jesus, one of these goddamned companies needs to step up to the #$^&* plate and eat the loss of revenue for a month or three while the game engine is overhauled correctly, rather than keep pushing out hot garbage patches to fix the fixes. Eventually, you wind up with an engine that is nothing but hot-fixes and patches. Guess what happens if you keep patching drywall? It eventually crumbles because there's more spackle than drywall. Same principle here. Stop pushing out sh*tty cosmetics, and take those devs designing that crapola and put them in the same room with the devs working on fixing the game engine. Everything in DE should stop--seriously, shut down Warframe's servers while all work but overhauling the engine should cease, and if you're not a dev, GTFO. Every last dev should be on that job. 

Wtf is it that modders have no problem doing this, including doing things game companies say is impossible, (like Bethesda and Fallout 4 with their, "Oh, vehicles wouldn't work--the game engine will break," only to have a modder turn around six months later and put out the Raider Quad Bike mod), and yet, game companies keep making the same mistake over and over and over? Modders can do it; why can't DE?

Again, STOP BUYING THEIR JUNK! You want to get their attention? If even 10% of their customers just stopped buying their stupid skins and S#&amp;&#036;astic themes, they would start losing money fast, and corporate would be right there demanding to know wtf is going on.

Bottom line--if DE wants to separate itself from the pack and do something innovative, shut down Warframe for a week or three and overhaul the system. Get rid of the spaghetti code, the unnecessary filler info and entries that are non-functional, and the dirty edits, and let the people *@##&#036; and moan about it all they want. When it comes back online, it's going to be a lot better, and make a lot more money, than competing MMOs because it was done right the first time.

Edited July 10, 2018 by TwoWolves

[(PSN)FurryZenJustice]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)The_Wyatt said:

seeing as you also work in the field, I'm surprised you feel the need to defend them so much.  It's difficult stuff, yes, but the DE folks aren't greenhorn amateur-hour rejects.

They're not, but as someone in the industry I know just how insanely difficult it is to get right. Especially anything at scale. You hope the stars align. You hope you've thought of everything. You have your plan and you do the best you can. And everyone just wants to get things done and be proud of the work they're doing. You take shortcuts where you have to and curse yourself for doing so. There's never enough time to do everything you want to do and there's never ever enough time to find, let alone fix all the bugs you introduced.

Modern software is a miracle and a testament to humanity. When you really start to think about all the things that have to work with zero flaws just for your bug to show up it's incredible. There's a story about how when your power goes out all of a sudden it's not because something went wrong. It's because 5 things went wrong all at the same time, each a rare occurrence in and of themselves.

When something goes wrong, sometimes it's because you should have thought of something, but didn't. But frequently it's because of the 100 different variables and 90 different abstractions you had to keep track of in your head real-time, you forgot about one, which happens. People tend to reduce things in their head to abstractions, but those abstractions have little holes -- they leak. One of the big issues is that software tools are never caught up to the needs of software development. It's not even like it's an issue of money -- they simply don't exist. Software development is always at the edge of what's possible or practical. So when you're trying to fix something you have to wonder if you're just fixing it for one test case or all test cases and then you realize that there are hundreds of test cases just around your one little button depending on how the user got there, the state of their data, the state of the server, the player's progression in the game, whether or not they're in a squad, and seemingly infinitum. There's no way to tell except to test everything.

The problem is there is no way to test every scenario. Which is why so many fixes look like, "fixed gigamex syndana getting caught on Grineer doorway when equipped on Nova Prime with Galatine Prime on back". Even a game like Warframe is millions of lines of code sitting on top of tens of millions of lines of OS code sitting on top of the most complicated hardware mankind has ever created which basically has its own operating system in firmware. I, personally, work on a product with a dozen different configurations and even the one component on I'm working on today has a dozen different ways to embed it and appears on dozens and dozens of pages and itself is tens of thousands of lines of code.

People frequently treat developers (and other professions) as somehow being lazy, incompetent or greedy when we get something wrong. And it's just exhausting. Because you knew you put your heart and soul into it and you tested and tested, but stuff gets through. Now, in this case DE knew what they put together had issues, but there may not have been a good way forward. Frequently you plan this stuff out months or years ahead of time and sometimes what you planned out doesn't work and you're left with a mess. I think that's what happened here. I give them the benefit of the doubt because I want the benefit of the doubt. Because I know how hard this job is regardless of how good you are at it.

[(XBOX)ManicZanic]

7 minutes ago, TwoWolves said:

Bottom line--if DE wants to separate itself from the pack and do something innovative, shut down Warframe for a week or three and overhaul the system. Get rid of the spaghetti code, the unnecessary filler info and entries that are non-functional, and the dirty edits, and let the people *@##&#036; and moan about it all they want. When it comes back online, it's going to be a lot better, and make a lot more money, than competing MMOs because it was done right the first time.

 

DE doesn't even need to shut down the game in order to make these improvements. They just need to make it their priority and stop making their weekly PC patches for a while. If they spend half the time focusing on the console experience as they do PC then we would understand why this virtual mouse is abhorrent on console. But don't wait on a reply from DE on this. they know they forked things up here and refuse to acknowledge their mistake. 

I liked the sacrifice quest and the look (not the function in a lot of areas) of the newest interface but with the current virtual mouse system, It was like putting lipstick on a pig. It's prettier sure but it's still slow, fat, and smells like manure.

[TwoWolves]

The problem, @(PS4)FurryZenJustice, is that they're trying to monetize everything (which reveals that it's nothing but corporate greed). If the devs weren't receiving orders from higher up to put out these ridiculous skins and themes and palettes and anything else they can think of, they wouldn't be doing so. Yeah, I get Warframe needs money to survive--but that ain't the way to do it. All that does is inculcate in the next gen of Warframe players the idea that spending money on hot pink hot-pants for your Octavia to match the neon purple boa you just bought her is "cool" or is what Warframe is about. Last I checked, it was about kicking ass and taking names, and running out of paper for those names.

Think about this. DE literally dialed down the saturation on the default color palettes, making them look like sh*t, and then turned around and offered new fully saturated palettes that would return your colors to the way they were before they tinkered with it--if you paid with real world money. Does that sound reputable to you? Does that sound honest?

Skins, themes, palettes, and anything else cosmetic should be completely removed from the game--if it has nothing to do with the mechanics of the game or ensuring that I am kicking ass that much harder, it's unnecessary and eats up server memory that could be better used on improving the video output to me, the consumer. Or, at the very least, it should be demonetized and be able to be purchased with money you can earn in game. Neverwinter has this formula down pat. Yeah, there's premium money units you can buy with real world money, but you can also earn those premium units of money through hard gameplay and effort. Then, those devs actively putting out those things should be sent over to the virtual cursor fix devs. No more hot fixes or patches until they come out with the equivalent of an Unofficial Skyrim Patch (If you don't know what that is or how long it has taken to make it what it is, go to nexusmods and find out) for Warframe. 

Then, we wouldn't have this issue at all. The UI would have been fixed in a single patch, quality control would have been there from the start, and everyone would be happy.