So about that Limbo re-re-rework...

[(PSN)Tactless_Ninja]

I seen some...ahem....rumors flying around about or Dapper Gentlemen frame and I'm not looking forward to the sudden spike in activity for him in the least bit. Maybe some of you like to invest 5 or more formas into your primary or secondary, go to the trouble of bringing it into a mission, then watching as it completely and utterly becomes a useless piece of crap because someone decided they were going to shut it off is a no bueno for me.

Rift interaction between teammates needs an overhaul plain and simple. Just play solo? Why don't you become an ice fisher in the Antarctic with the penguins?!? That's not a real answer. It's a co-op game with a Warframe with built in anti-gameplay mechanics. So I'd like to throw some ideas out there into the void.

• How about the rift just buffs powers and doesn't negate weapons. People would love him all of a sudden. Oh sh*t I just got rifted. Thanks Limbo for making my powers awesome. And my guns don't suck. Great Job! You a hero!
• Limbo's A-B mechanic (My personal description of the rift. A is regular world, B is rift world. A can't interact with B only other A and vice-versa) only applies to him on the host side. He's still squishy but retains his immortality quirk and nuances. There you didn't throw anything out. DE 100% packrats when it comes to powers.
• Shooting targets while stasis'd instantly hits them with the projectile, unlocking stasis is just a check-mark for the kill. Would make weapons that much more reliable if you knew the bullets are 100% going to hit instead of randomly firing whenever the **** they feel like unstucking themselves. Balance by shortening stasis duration or whatever. Just make it functional.

There Limbo is a credit to team.

EDIT: I added more thoughts on this matter in this post https://forums.warframe.com/topic/964552-so-about-that-limbo-re-re-rework/?do=findComment&comment=9833686

 

Edited June 8, 2018 by (PS4)Tactless_Ninja

[NocheLuz]

Why don't just change Static to other ability? I think most people hate Limbo because of the use of Static. Some Limbo I've met didn't even use Static to defense the objective, which is very nice. Although, we need to come into the Rift to attack the enemies, but better then using static anyways.

 

[(PSN)Zero_029]

The Rift stops ranged attacks because if it didn't then Limbo would (already can in some situations) be a complete "Cheese" frame.

If we could shoot enemies in the Rift then it becomes a "Press 4 to win" power.
Sorties, Bosses, Assassins, anything of substance would become a joke. Player consensus would be "Have Limbo cast his 4 then everyone can unload." for everything as their would be no risks at all thanks to the Rift.

If you remove Stasis then what's the point in the Rift? So he needs to keep that aspect.
If the Rift slowed enemies down then he is just an inferior version of Frost.

Does he need a rework? Yes. I agree on that. Some team synergy is good for all frames.
I myself don't know how to fully rework him though. As he is probably one of the most complicated (and original) frames in the game.

They probably need to remove the ability to Banish other players.

[NocheLuz]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

If you remove Stasis then what's the point in the Rift? So he needs to keep that aspect.

Rift can regenerate your enegy, Enemies outside the Rift/in the Rift can't hurt you if you're on the other side. I think these two are more then enough for the Rift anyway.

If you still want Statis you why don't use it like Banish where you can only Static enemies in front of you. Instend of using it globally. Also, if you concern about the accumulative bullets things that some Limbo user did. Why don't just stop the bullets that the Limbo fire only when he use Static (and I mean only Limbo bullets that stop, teammate bullets willl not stop).

Edited June 7, 2018 by NocheLuz
Edit some wrong words (lol)

[Beartornado]

The dislike of Limbo is real, is this what happens when you queue for public too often?

[(PSN)Zero_029]

3 minutes ago, NocheLuz said:

Rift can regenerate your enegy, Enemies outside the Rift/in the Rift can't hurt you if you're on the other side. I think these two are more then enough for the Rift anyway. 

If you still want Statis you why don't use it like Banish where you can only Static enemies in front of you. Instend of using it globally. Also, if you concern about the accumulative bullets things that some Limbo user did. Why don't just stop the bullets that the Limbo fire only when he use Static (and I mean only Limbo bullets that stop, teammate bullets willl not stop).

I suppose if they SEVERELY buffed the energy regeneration.
Right now it's Energy Regeneration isn't much better than Energy Siphon.

Also if enemies in the Rift aren't frozen/slowed, then they'll just run out & smash the objective once they're done beating down (depending on mission difficulty) the players trapped inside the Rift with them.

The point of the Rift is to CC, delay, & control the battlefield. If enemies aren't slowed, or frozen then it becomes a:
"Tenno! I'm not in this Rift with you. You're in here with ME!" situation.
or a
"Why bother casting Rift?" situation.

But I do see where you are coming from.

[(XBOX)INe Saninus]

I still say make Stasis just an ultra slow. Like... the slowest slow.

-Keeps the flavor.

-Allows for primary and secondary usage.

Change Rift Surge a little so he doesn't lock out targets from the group. (Hell, just make it a dmg boost or a whole new power)

Boom. Limbo becomes a good team mate with minimal dev time needed.

 

*Also, something that I think would make Limbo shine:

-When exiting the rift he receives a 90% dmg resist that decays over 8 seconds.

That would help promote that peekaboo style that I want to like, but can't because you get shredded the second you step out of the rift.

 

Edited June 7, 2018 by (XB1)INe Saninus
Grammar as usual

[Oreades]

Part of me wants to see Limbo reworked HARD but the other part of me would miss Stasis for cheesing those Headshot Rivens.

That said worst case scenario there will probably only be about a week or two of absolute misery as every one and their dog plays Limbo badly. After that it should clear up and be relatively smooth sailing with the occasional troll encounter.

[MortalMortom]

Lol

[Vanille]

3 hours ago, LupisV0lk said:

You can be a good limbo and people will still "REEEE" at you because "Limbo"

No matter how good you are at Limbo, if you're still forcing players to either melee or use abilities, they're gonna "reee" at you regardless, unless you make a super small cataclysm bubble to defend the objetive without affecting people around it, which seems like 0,1% of Limbo players in public matchmaking do. The tradeoff of his annoyance for his utility is not worth it in public, I play him sometimes with a small bubble but even when I play him, he's just not worth using on normal starchart missions, just when I want to chill against grineer/infested invasions or sorties for mobile defenses with like 40% negative range.

[AuroraSonicBoom]

All DE has to do is remove other players' weapons except their melees while they're inside a stasis'd rift.

[LupisV0lk]

37 minutes ago, Kiwinille said:

No matter how good you are at Limbo, if you're still forcing players to either melee or use abilities, they're gonna "reee" at you regardless, unless you make a super small cataclysm bubble to defend the objetive without affecting people around it, which seems like 0,1% of Limbo players in public matchmaking do. The tradeoff of his annoyance for his utility is not worth it in public, I play him sometimes with a small bubble but even when I play him, he's just not worth using on normal starchart missions, just when I want to chill against grineer/infested invasions or sorties for mobile defenses with like 40% negative range.

I don't get it, there's always so much push back against DE "nerfing" other frames room wiping abilities and yet Limbo is the only frame where it's a captial offence in the community to use said abilities.

Come his prime, i'll make sure to use his abilities....gotta get my moneys worth in salt.

[(XBOX)Cotton Tail]

5 hours ago, (XB1)INe Saninus said:

I still say make Stasis just an ultra slow. Like... the slowest slow.

-Keeps the flavor.

-Allows for primary and secondary usage.

Change Rift Surge a little so he doesn't lock out targets from the group. (Hell, just make it a dmg boost or a whole new power)

Boom. Limbo becomes a good team mate with minimal dev time needed.

 

*Also, something that I think would make Limbo shine:

-When exiting the rift he receives a 90% dmg resist that decays over 8 seconds.

That would help promote that peekaboo style that I want to like, but can't because you get shredded the second you step out of the rift.

 

This sounds like a very interesting idea! A bunch of interesting ideas, actually 🙂

[(PSN)Cynicaid]

I love that damage resist idea. It sucks to pop out then instantly explode the moment line-of-sight is established when trying to banish things.

[aligatorno]

Just now, rand0mname said:

Well. Good thing I like Khora. She will like Cataclisms, methinks.

_{Chroma is in winter then... Ok, patience is a virtue.}

Autumn. Mesa is winter. 

[Chewarette]

Remember when Limbo was a fine frame with its niche ?

Well DE decided to fix him. Even though he wasn't broken, he was misunderstood and underused.

I wouldn't expect any radical change, even though it seems obvious Cataclysm needs to go back to its previous state.

Edited June 7, 2018 by Chewarette

[Ocriel]

As long as Stasis gets a global toggle (as in any Limbo can activate/deactivate it) opposed to the current Stasis where even one instance of the power keeps it up indefinitely unless someone breaks it, I'm one happy Limbo main. Perhaps with the opt-in of a Rift Walk buff upon being Banished or crossing the fold of a Cataclysm, as detailed in @PsiWarp's excellent rework thread. 

(Bonus points to DE for catching both my most used 'frame and secondary in the same Prime Access, this is gonna be Christmas alongside The Sacrifice! :D)

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

5 hours ago, LupisV0lk said:

Entitled is one thing. But the out right discrimination Limbo players get is beyond a #*!%ing joke. You can be a good limbo and people will still "REEEE" at you because "Limbo"

Anyway really he's one of the frames least deserving for a REEEwork.

A) that comment was in no way a personal attack on you. There was no reason for you to take it personally and react the way you did.

B) it's not like I'm the only one in the world who thinks limbo is problematic in his current state, as you yourself acknowledged with this comment.

5 hours ago, Vilemyre said:

And thats not a personal attack on you. Limbo needs a heap ton of work to get rid of that stigma. He's a good frame don't get me wrong and has a heap ton of uses (personally a friend when i'm running excalibur because exalted blade isn't affected by the rift so wow free energy) but his synergy in general is buried among the annoyances that come with him.

Your frame isn't the first to be treated poorly. Loki had it for a while and Vauban (though boobens was a legit serious issue because i think he was crashing people's computers).

That's the thing, ,the comment I made wasn't a personal attack on him in any way whatsoever, but oh well.

 

You wanna know what's fun? A limbo with a football stadium sized AoE who thinks that it's necessary in hydron.

For every "good" limbo that knows you only need so much range (very little, if that" there are 10 that don't.

 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

oh boy, grab your popcorn and your bingo cards, Limbo Salt Season 2: electric boogaloo is about to be underway!

no matter what DE do, at this point it's carved into many people's minds that Limbo is some kind of terrible, game ruining frame. in some cases, he can be if played improperly. but the solution is simply educating people on how Limbo works. that said, my idea for changes:

- remove Banishing players, and make the passive Rift gate (left behind by limbo when he evades) much larger and more distinctive, so players can choose when they need the rift, and avoid it when they don't. granted, people could still block doorways with it, but you can always roll out of the rift.

- remove Projectiles being Frozen in Stasis. it was a cool gimmick, but now it's just unwanted. make Stasis only freeze enemies in the rift, then players can use whatever weapons they want against Static Targets.

- make Rift Surge actually useful outside of the Rift, perhaps rebranding it simply as "surge". give it a different benefit when Limbo is outside of the Rift, like reduced energy cost on ability use. or double strength on next Cataclysm cast or something.

- add a defensive buff upon exiting the Rift, so that Limbo doesn't get immediately one-shot at higher levels. "rift protection", with a temporary armour boost would be nice, and if it affects allies, Limbo could essentially buff team mates on command.

these changes would help a lot IMO, but haters gonna hate Limbo no matter what.

[Cyaminthe]

7 hours ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

Limbo has two functions in this game as far as I'm concerned, cheesing defense missions and trolling people. Don't like it? Fine. Want to be rude about it? Good day sir.

But defense missions make up a significant chunk of the game. And I'm not talking about "Defense" missions only. I'm talking about all missions which feature defending something. Mobile Defense, Excavation, Rescue (on the way to extraction), Defection. Back when Trials were a thing, my usual team utilised a Limbo to protect squishier frames from all harm.

And this is still just one function of Limbo. How about cheesing the lasers in Corpus Spy? Or max-range catastasing the Vomvalysts so that the larger Eidolon can't heal jack? But no, how dare you play a frame that I don't like.

[Loza03]

1 minute ago, ToaMimrik said:

But defense missions make up a significant chunk of the game. And I'm not talking about "Defense" missions only. I'm talking about all missions which feature defending something. Mobile Defense, Excavation, Rescue (on the way to extraction), Defection. Back when Trials were a thing, my usual team utilised a Limbo to protect squishier frames from all harm.

And this is still just one function of Limbo. How about cheesing the lasers in Corpus Spy? Or max-range catastasing the Vomvalysts so that the larger Eidolon can't heal jack? But no, how dare you play a frame that I don't like.

Huh. Never thought of that Vomvalyst one. I use Limbo as a Lure Jockey myself. Sure some attacks pass through the rift, but most of the wide sweeping ones that are likely to hit the lures don't. And haven means I can heal up the damage they've taken, and be able to divert my attention to fighting the eidolon instead of spamming a heal button to keep them alive.

[Richtter]

34 minutes ago, ToaMimrik said:

But defense missions make up a significant chunk of the game. And I'm not talking about "Defense" missions only. I'm talking about all missions which feature defending something. Mobile Defense, Excavation, Rescue (on the way to extraction), Defection. Back when Trials were a thing, my usual team utilised a Limbo to protect squishier frames from all harm.

And this is still just one function of Limbo. How about cheesing the lasers in Corpus Spy? Or max-range catastasing the Vomvalysts so that the larger Eidolon can't heal jack? But no, how dare you play a frame that I don't like.

This^.

Jerks will always harass Limbo, but many of them only spam 4 to clear a whole map and/ or memestrike all day because is easy brain dead gameplay(oh wait! you can memestrike and cast skill inside rift and clear a whole map too).

Even in a mission where you must defend something, people wants to achieve a big kill count to inflate their ego.

 

I think people needs a rework more than Limbo.

[NocheLuz]

36 minutes ago, Richtter said:

Jerks will always harass Limbo, but many of them only spam 4 to clear a whole map and/ or memestrike all day because is easy brain dead gameplay(oh wait! you can memestrike and cast skill inside rift and clear a whole map too).

Oh, how about I'm using Rhino and don't bring Melee weapon!? What? you didn't think of that? Sorry sir, Limbo have their use but obviously not almighty. Some Limbo I've met is brain death BTW... Which is not nice when you trying to argue for them...

[writeacreativealias]

If rift gave buffs kinda like Octavia gives buffs he will be loved and worshipped

[Richtter]

10 minutes ago, NocheLuz said:

Oh, how about I'm using Rhino and don't bring Melee weapon!? What? you didn't think of that? Sorry sir, Limbo have their use but obviously not almighty. Some Limbo I've met is brain death BTW... Which is not nice when you trying to argue for them...

A scenario where a Rhino will not bring a melee weapon maybe when levelling up weapons.

For killing trash we have better options than Limbo, but there is no point in kill trash when you must defend something.

 

I know there are tons of bad Limbos but instead of harass them in the first place, why not just give a heads up?

Edited June 7, 2018 by Richtter