Dracosaber Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 So, I've gone through the forums a lot, reading many things, some helpful, some meh. lol. Anyways, one thing I find is a bunch of people complaining about Nova, mostly for one of two reason: her fourth ability, or her theme. I'm not going to get into her powers, that's a whole different discussion. What I want to understand is why so many people are saying that her theme of antimatter is not displayed in her abilities at all. The way I see it, they fit pretty well actually. Thus, I want some opinions as to why people don't think her abilities match her theme. The only one of her abilities that I can see having that issue could be the wormhole one, and yet that is still in the same vein of science as antimatter, so it shouldn't be a big deal. Most everyone I've seen hating on her abilities matching her theme say that she is just all about explosions, and that it has nothing to do with antimatter. But, um......that's exactly what antimatter does when it touches matter: it causes explosions. That's what it is mostly known for. Does it have other uses? Perhaps. Do her powers fit the main point of antimatter/matter collisions? Yes. So then, why are people saying that her abilities don't fit her theme? Did I miss something? By the way, I don't own a Nova, I like her and don't mind her at all, have no problems with her at the moment, but I can see why some people might. I'm mainly just curious in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katakuna Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Science nerds got cranky because there wasn't enough real science in a game with space ninjas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanoDecerto Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 People may complain about theme due to the scientific impossiblity of it as it is vastly a mystery, but what is realism in space ninjas? And to be fair, her fourth ability is a tad overpowered, I love using her but pressing 4 and clearing a room can get a little ridiculous. Hence, I use loki a lot :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firetempest Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 it was meta voted to make a superior defense frame at the cost of rational to the theme at hand. But EXPLOSIONS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCanadian24 Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 I don't hate her theme, I hate how overpowered her theme is. Also, her design is fugly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaos_Zand3r Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Science nerds got cranky because there wasn't enough real science in a game with space ninjas. As one of those science nerds, I am incredibly happy with Nova. I love her and the idea of her. Originally the name didn't fit but I can't imagine a different name with her now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayden11121 Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 I don't hate her theme, I hate how overpowered her theme is. Also, her design is fugly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XSuzumeX Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 it was meta voted to make a superior defense frame at the cost of rational to the theme at hand. But EXPLOSIONS! everytime I see that word since ive been playing bl2 as of late Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspari Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 I hate Nova's name. Novas have nothing to do with anti-matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayden11121 Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 I hate Nova's name. Novas have nothing to do with anti-matter. Shouldn't it be about Light or something? Nova sounds like a light based frame.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkwahn Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 I don't hate her theme, I hate how overpowered her theme is. Also, her design is fugly. This. Probably applies to a bunch of other people as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCanadian24 Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 (edited) Nova sounds like a light based frame.. To quote my good old friend, Wikipedia... A nova (plural novae or novas) is a cataclysmic nuclear explosion in a white dwarf star. It is caused by the accretion of hydrogen on to the surface of the star, which ignites and starts nuclear fusion in a runaway manner. Novae are not to be confused with supernovae or luminous red novae. A nova is a sudden brightening of a star. Novae are thought to occur on the surface of a white dwarf star in a binary system. If these two stars are close enough, material from one star can be pulled off the companion star's surface and onto the white dwarf. Edited August 17, 2013 by CrazyCanadian24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archon357 Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 I don't particularly mind the fact that Nova, by name and abilities, has scant few things to do with antimatter. I won't go into detail, but if you know just a bit about what antimatter actually is, you can figure out for yourself how it just doesn't make sense. Things in Warframe are pseudo-scienceish anyway, so I don't expect too much from it. It would be pretty tough to make her skills all be accurate and still fun and varied, I think. I still call her the "vaguely-spaceish warframe" anyway :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracosaber Posted August 17, 2013 Author Share Posted August 17, 2013 I don't particularly mind the fact that Nova, by name and abilities, has scant few things to do with antimatter. I won't go into detail, but if you know just a bit about what antimatter actually is, you can figure out for yourself how it just doesn't make sense. Things in Warframe are pseudo-scienceish anyway, so I don't expect too much from it. It would be pretty tough to make her skills all be accurate and still fun and varied, I think. I still call her the "vaguely-spaceish warframe" anyway :P But, it does make sense. Perhaps they could have delved deeper into what antimatter does to make more variety in her abilities, but the antimatter causing explosions makes perfect sense. It is what happens when antimatter touches matter: they "annihilate" each other, causing a release of energy/explosion. Thus, other than maybe wormhole, her abilities are pretty in line with what antimatter does. I can understand her name not fitting with her theme, but that's not the complaint I see from a lot of people. I agree, Nova might not be the best name for an antimatter themed warframe, though it isn't too bad. It has to do with explosions, which is what her antimatter powers are good for, so in that way it makes sense. Also, once again, I don't want to get into a discussion about her fourth ability. It's been done over and over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCanadian24 Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 But, it does make sense. Perhaps they could have delved deeper into what antimatter does to make more variety in her abilities, but the antimatter causing explosions makes perfect sense. It is what happens when antimatter touches matter: they "annihilate" each other, causing a release of energy/explosion. Thus, other than maybe wormhole, her abilities are pretty in line with what antimatter does. Problem is... that antimatter would instantly annihilate itself and all the oxygen around it on contact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracosaber Posted August 17, 2013 Author Share Posted August 17, 2013 Problem is... that antimatter would instantly annihilate itself and all the oxygen around it on contact. Unless they figured out a way for it not to do that, like some kind of containment. I mean, this game is set many, many years in the future. I'm sure they could figure something out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notlamprey Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 I don't hate her theme, I hate how overpowered her theme is. Also, her design is fugly. disclaimer: "...to me." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaClamps Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 (edited) I don't particularly mind the fact that Nova, by name and abilities, has scant few things to do with antimatter. I won't go into detail, but if you know just a bit about what antimatter actually is, you can figure out for yourself how it just doesn't make sense. Things in Warframe are pseudo-scienceish anyway, so I don't expect too much from it. It would be pretty tough to make her skills all be accurate and still fun and varied, I think. I still call her the "vaguely-spaceish warframe" anyway :P I agree. Null star makes no sense. Wormhole makes no sense. Drop is ok if you allow the fact that it can be in a force field which disappears after contact. Primer is iffy, since priming something to detonate with antimatter would make it detonate in the first place; bullets would be irrelevant. Leave it to the DC to pick non-theme-friendly abilities. Edited August 17, 2013 by DaClamps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCanadian24 Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Unless they figured out a way for it not to do that, like some kind of containment. I mean, this game is set many, many years in the future. I'm sure they could figure something out. True. disclaimer: "...to me." Not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracosaber Posted August 17, 2013 Author Share Posted August 17, 2013 I agree. Null star makes no sense. Wormhole makes no sense. Drop is ok if you allow the fact that it can be in a force field which disappears after contact. Primer is iffy, since priming something to detonate with antimatter would make it detonate in the first place; bullets would be irrelevant. Leave it to the DC to pick non-theme-friendly abilities. How does Null Star not make sense? Also, people have to remember how far into the future this game is set. What science can do now is nothing to what science will probably be capable of doing in the future.They just figured out a way to make antimatter free fall in a vacuum, some kind of containment field, small or large, is not too farfetched. This is sci-fi, set in a far future. Don't apply modern science to it, it just makes things dull, and hurts enjoyment, in my opinion anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archon357 Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 But, it does make sense. It does not, but since you seem like an ok individual, allow me to explain (and find something to do with my currently free time): Perhaps they could have delved deeper into what antimatter does to make more variety in her abilities, but the antimatter causing explosions makes perfect sense. It is what happens when antimatter touches matter: they "annihilate" each other, causing a release of energy/explosion. And that's exactly why it does not make sense. Ok, one by one: Null star It's just an orbiting projectile. Seems to have more to do with gravity than antimatter, since it produces no explosion whatsoever, and rather seems to do damage by impact. You could argue about extremely small amounts of antimatter and containment fields and whatnot, but the fact remains that Null star, by itself, does not have anything to do with antimatter implicitly. It's a bullet. It's not a big offender or anything, but connecting it with antimatter in any way is just forcing it. Antimatter Drop This is the only one that works to any extent, and even that is dubious. As it's description says, it is a "contained, highly unstable particle of antimatter that will detonate upon collision". Containment field goes down when you lay it down on a surface, thing goes boom. Perfectly fine, except that it doesn't explain the idea of shooting the particle to increase its damage. Even if you argue that the bullets that are shot at it are extra matter to come in contact, there's a major problem - it doesn't need any extra matter. It is, quite literally, surrounded by matter and any extra would make very little to no difference. Alternatively, one could speculate that the bullets are kept suspended around the particle and are then sent out by the explosion as shrapnel, but that puts a question on how does the containment field even work if it can capture and suspend arrows, bolts, bullets, darts, laser beams, rockets, grenades and plasma bursts equally effectively. Again, it seems more connected to gravity. Wormhole You said it yourself, wormholes have nothing whatsoever to do with antimatter, and I won't delve further. Molecular Prime Also, once again, I don't want to get into a discussion about her fourth ability. It's been done over and over. I'll take it that you don't want to discuss the gameplay balances, not the explanation behind the mechanics. DaClamps says part of it pretty well: Primer is iffy, since priming something to detonate with antimatter would make it detonate in the first place; bullets would be irrelevant. If the bullets were the trigger, so to say, then the whole priming would need to take a whole new level of successful isolation of whatever enemy is affected from all matter. And it's not just any bullet, it's the killing bullet. So that just takes even further into the realm of doing-much-more-work-than-you-need-to. Furthermore, how exactly does an antimatter/matter collision create more antimatter? Again, I don't particularly mind that it doesn't make sense. It works from a gameplay perspective, and I appreciate that far more than scientific accuracy. Even though the latter should not be so hard to achieve in the first place, since it's just descriptions, not actual mechanics. Leave it to the DC to pick non-theme-friendly abilities. Let's be fair here, if it was the whole forum/playerbase, the results would have been no better. This is sci-fi, set in a far future. Don't apply modern science to it, it just makes things dull, and hurts enjoyment, in my opinion anyways. No matter how far you go, basics of science still apply. The absolute best pieces of science fiction are good and interesting exactly because of this fact - they base themselves on what we know and base themselves in reality. Read some Clark and Asimov, and you'll see that in most cases (I won't say "always" since I can't claim to have perfect knowledge of their entire life's work) they didn't need to make any crazy leaps of logic to reach interesting technologies and/or plot points and were in no way "dull", as you put it... except, of course, if we're talking about people who consider the bare idea of "book" boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl_Facehugger Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 What I want to understand is why so many people are saying that her theme of antimatter is not displayed in her abilities at all. Mostly it's because people were butthurt over the Necroframe not being chosen. As it turns out we're getting Necroframe anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SixxxAla Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 By the way, I don't own a Nova, I like her and don't mind her at all, have no problems with her at the moment. When is the wedding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracosaber Posted August 17, 2013 Author Share Posted August 17, 2013 It does not, but since you seem like an ok individual, allow me to explain (and find something to do with my currently free time): And that's exactly why it does not make sense. Ok, one by one: Null star It's just an orbiting projectile. Seems to have more to do with gravity than antimatter, since it produces no explosion whatsoever, and rather seems to do damage by impact. You could argue about extremely small amounts of antimatter and containment fields and whatnot, but the fact remains that Null star, by itself, does not have anything to do with antimatter implicitly. It's a bullet. It's not a big offender or anything, but connecting it with antimatter in any way is just forcing it. Antimatter Drop This is the only one that works to any extent, and even that is dubious. As it's description says, it is a "contained, highly unstable particle of antimatter that will detonate upon collision". Containment field goes down when you lay it down on a surface, thing goes boom. Perfectly fine, except that it doesn't explain the idea of shooting the particle to increase its damage. Even if you argue that the bullets that are shot at it are extra matter to come in contact, there's a major problem - it doesn't need any extra matter. It is, quite literally, surrounded by matter and any extra would make very little to no difference. Alternatively, one could speculate that the bullets are kept suspended around the particle and are then sent out by the explosion as shrapnel, but that puts a question on how does the containment field even work if it can capture and suspend arrows, bolts, bullets, darts, laser beams, rockets, grenades and plasma bursts equally effectively. Again, it seems more connected to gravity. Wormhole You said it yourself, wormholes have nothing whatsoever to do with antimatter, and I won't delve further. Molecular Prime I'll take it that you don't want to discuss the gameplay balances, not the explanation behind the mechanics. DaClamps says part of it pretty well: If the bullets were the trigger, so to say, then the whole priming would need to take a whole new level of successful isolation of whatever enemy is affected from all matter. And it's not just any bullet, it's the killing bullet. So that just takes even further into the realm of doing-much-more-work-than-you-need-to. Furthermore, how exactly does an antimatter/matter collision create more antimatter? Again, I don't particularly mind that it doesn't make sense. It works from a gameplay perspective, and I appreciate that far more than scientific accuracy. Even though the latter should not be so hard to achieve in the first place, since it's just descriptions, not actual mechanics. Let's be fair here, if it was the whole forum/playerbase, the results would have been no better. No matter how far you go, basics of science still apply. The absolute best pieces of science fiction are good and interesting exactly because of this fact - they base themselves on what we know and base themselves in reality. Read some Clark and Asimov, and you'll see that in most cases (I won't say "always" since I can't claim to have perfect knowledge of their entire life's work) they didn't need to make any crazy leaps of logic to reach interesting technologies and/or plot points and were in no way "dull", as you put it... except, of course, if we're talking about people who consider the bare idea of "book" boring. Hm, I see where you're coming from, and it makes sense. See, that was the kind of answer I was looking for. lol. And yeah, about the fourth ability, that's what I meant, discussions about balancing are not what I was looking for. Also, I didn't mean to make it sound like the use of modern science in a story is dull, I quite enjoy sci-fi of that nature. What I meant was that arguing over scientific accuracy in a fantasy, sci-fi game is unnecessary and just hurts the experience more than it helps. In any case, thank you. I can understand a bit better now, though I still think it isn't something major enough to complain too much about. A little balancing and tweaking are all that's needed. I think Nova is a great addition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Too many people watched Green Lantern Emerald Knights you know the one with the giant anti matter thing and they crash Oa into him yeah not many explosions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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