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Equinox Rework/Tweaks that need to be done.


(PSN)AstrumCrow
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I know how reworks and tweaks have and always will be hot on the block, but hear me out cause I think these are some crucial and pivotal changes to make Equinox less you build for this one thing and that's it. I have 5 key changes I would love to see done to Equinox, here they are.

1-) Her first, Metamorphosis, change it to a passive and have it work similarly to Limbo's Rift Walk passive and how his roll was replaced.

2-) Keep Metamorphosis the same except for its ability to change her form. Maybe make the buffs a bit stronger and not decay over time making it similar to Elemental Ward's buff in a way. Also keep the buff specific to the forms and keep the ability on a timer that cancels on form switch. 

3-) Rest and Rage does its  job well and effectively to its purpose, but I feel like rage's damage increase could be a bit higher.

4-) Pacify and Provoke needs the falloff removed. It hurts her kit to much and I feel that if you're losing X energy per enemy you should receive the full effect no matter where they are in the abilities range.

5-) Mend and Maim works splendidly, on Maims side. Mend needs to work like Renewal except having its healing ramp up with the damage stored to a cap with the healing capping at a number that scales with power strength. (Side note: Although some may argue the augment should be implemented into the ability itself I feel the augment can stay the same due to the amount of power this ability would hold and is worth using a mod slot to keep the damage stored between forms)

I would love to see these implemented, and I feel they are needed to put Equinox at her A game. Please attempt to work with these ideas and implement some of them.

Edited by (PS4)NininJaXero
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instead of it being like limbo it could replace something like back/forward flips and side roll dodges

make ability 1 replace ability 2
have ability 2 be a charge like duration (longer you hold it the more duration you get) to where equinox can hold both forms and use both powers for a set amount of time in turn with a bit of an energy drain.
so when equinox changes forms passively with 2 active it would be more like a rubberband effect.
metamorphosis augment would cut your max duration in half but allows a 2nd clone of yourself be up for x amount of time rather than the small 7 seconds

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4 minutes ago, TheLuckyWanderer said:

Another thing that I would like to see is that starting in Day/Night form is based on energy colour instead of primary colour.

I believe it is already based on energy color, although I may be wrong, I've never ran across the issue myself.

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Metamorphosis: The Bonuses no longer fade, but instead are lower. (They are permanent).

Day Form: Damage lowered from 10/15/20/25% to 4/6/8/10% and Speed lowered from 5/10/12/15% to 2/4/6/8% Speed bonus.

Night Form: Armor reduced from 100/150/200/250 to 0/50/100/150 , and shield bonus will stay the same 50/75/100/150 (For those who want to know about they're values.                     (All of the above are affected By Powers Str).

New effect: Equinox gains additional bonuses, for a limited time.

Rest & Rage -> The things you mentioned above , are quite good actually for this one.

 

From one of my posts.

Also, about the Mend from Night Form, i don't think it should be done. It's already good enough, and dosen't need any tweaks whatsoever. But again, that's from coming from an equinox main.

Edited by m3stuart
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4 hours ago, (PS4)NininJaXero said:

1-) Her first, Metamorphosis, change it to a passive and have it work similarly to Limbo's Rift Walk passive and how his roll was replaced.

This one I'm gonna have to say no to, rolling is one of the most common maneuver to use. It works with Limbo because enemies attacks will phase through him as he goes into the Rift, being in the Rift is an advantage. With how Equinox currently works, changing forms means losing her charge values on both her third and fourth ability every time she rolls plus needing to recast the abilities again.

For this to be not detrimental, she needs to be able to retain those charged values and not needing to recast her abilities by default.

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11 hours ago, (PS4)NininJaXero said:

1-) Her first, Metamorphosis, change it to a passive and have it work similarly to Limbo's Rift Walk passive and how his roll was replaced.

You can't be shot in the Rift, so it makes sense to change his roll, which gives you 75% damage resistance, to the plane shift. It makes no sense for Equinox who doesn't have anything like that mechanic and none that would fit her.

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On 2018-06-10 at 9:12 PM, (PS4)NininJaXero said:

1-) Her first, Metamorphosis, change it to a passive and have it work similarly to Limbo's Rift Walk passive and how his roll was replaced.

As was said: this is just going to make going fast through missions a headache. Alternative idea is to have it like Ivara's quiver: tap to switch for free with no buffs, hold to switch with buffs for 25 energy.

On 2018-06-10 at 9:12 PM, (PS4)NininJaXero said:

3-) Rest and Rage does its  job well and effectively to its purpose, but I feel like rage's damage increase could be a bit higher.

Rage is still pretty lacklustre because it trades the debuff for a buff, whereas Rest is just a straight CC that opens into stealth finishers for only the energy cost. I don't think an added damage buff would really be enough, if you're looking to emphasize versatility.

On 2018-06-10 at 9:12 PM, (PS4)NininJaXero said:

4-) Pacify and Provoke needs the falloff removed. It hurts her kit to much and I feel that if you're losing X energy per enemy you should receive the full effect no matter where they are in the abilities range.

Apparently, Mend and Maim have the same inconsistency (Maim and Pacify fall off over distance, Mend and Provoke don't). That could be something else worth addressing, if for nothing else but consistency.

On 2018-06-10 at 9:12 PM, (PS4)NininJaXero said:

5-) Mend and Maim works splendidly, on Maims side. Mend needs to work like Renewal except having its healing ramp up with the damage stored to a cap with the healing capping at a number that scales with power strength. (Side note: Although some may argue the augment should be implemented into the ability itself I feel the augment can stay the same due to the amount of power this ability would hold and is worth using a mod slot to keep the damage stored between forms)

What kind of formula would that use? HPS = 10+ (total charge / 100) or something?

Not sure on making it like Renewal since most of her niche is getting close and Renewal kind of fires-and-forgets. Add in that the the health per second has the potential to skyrocket (coupled with the ability to give overshields while active) and I don't think cast times and reactivation costs balance that out well. But that depends, in part, on the HPS calculation.

Also, without the augment, people have much less reason to switch forms. Indeed, it's discouraged. So if your goal is to get people away from building for one thing, even if they'd be able to build for a decent healer (see my reply below) or CC frame (which can already be done with focusing on Rest for, e.g., focus farming), that's just not going to help.

On 2018-06-10 at 10:59 PM, m3stuart said:

Also, about the Mend from Night Form, i don't think it should be done. It's already good enough, and dosen't need any tweaks whatsoever. But again, that's from coming from an equinox main.

The main problem with Mend is that it costs a nuke. Is it better to heal, or to kill the things that are killing your team? Given how most people play, it's the latter. And given the cast times, trying to dump the nuke charge, switching to Night, re-casting 4, and then working up the charge to heal team members will often end up with either someone downed (and the heal pointless once they're revived) or everyone healed via their own methods or another healer. Even without switching forms, the cast times have, more often than not, led to me abandoning Mend and sleeping targets so I can revive the guy I was going to heal. This coming from an Equinox main who switched to an immortal Broberon build because the healing and armour buffs are just more effective if one feels like playing that kind of hybrid support.

Edited by Tyreaus
This is not Discord, underscores do not italicize.
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7 minutes ago, DjKaplis said:

Nothing needs to be done. Equinox is one of the most versatile and fun warframes and her abilities are great.

She’s a clusterf*** of powers that don’t work well together, not to mention that of her 2 forms, 1 form is far superior than the other. Oh, and good luck modding for her augments since you literally do not have space for them (Looking at you 4th Augment)

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55 minutes ago, ljmadruga said:

She’s a clusterf*** of powers that don’t work well together, not to mention that of her 2 forms, 1 form is far superior than the other. Oh, and good luck modding for her augments since you literally do not have space for them (Looking at you 4th Augment)

She is a complicated frame, so it takes some time and patience to figure her out. If you don't wish to do that or don't have the patience to do that that would explain a lot.

I have around 5 different builds for her right now (by the way almost every one of them having an augment as her augments are amazing) and all are powerful and fun to play.

I'd like to hear which form you think is superior tho.. and if the answer is "day form" then it clearly proves that you just don't understand enough about Equinox.

 

Although... The original post is actually making good suggestions that wouldn't change how she is played right now, just improve the existing abilities in a good

non-gameplay-altering way. So if DE would decide to listen and implement these tweaks without changing anything else I wouldn't be against that.

Edited by DjKaplis
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43 minutes ago, DjKaplis said:

She is a complicated frame, so it takes some time and patience to figure her out. If you don't wish to do that or don't have the patience to do that that would explain a lot.

I have around 5 different builds for her right now (by the way almost every one of them having an augment as her augments are amazing) and all are powerful and fun to play.

I'd like to hear which form you think is superior tho.. and if the answer is "day form" then it clearly proves that you just don't understand enough about Equinox.

 

Although... The original post is actually making good suggestions that wouldn't change how she is played right now, just improve the existing abilities in a good

non-gameplay-altering way. So if DE would decide to listen and implement these tweaks without changing anything else I wouldn't be against that.

Let me clarify. Sure, she is complicated, and sure, you can make builds with her augments.

However, if you try combining her augments or building for more than just one power, you run into issues.

For example, a Peaceful Provocation build can ignore duration because of how the ability works. However, the rest of her abilities rely heavily on duration that you simply don’t have space for.

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1 hour ago, ljmadruga said:

Let me clarify. Sure, she is complicated, and sure, you can make builds with her augments.

However, if you try combining her augments or building for more than just one power, you run into issues.

For example, a Peaceful Provocation build can ignore duration because of how the ability works. However, the rest of her abilities rely heavily on duration that you simply don’t have space for.

I have peaceful provocation build that can achieve 78% slow, still sleep enemies for around 13s and easily keep Mend up while also having space for hp mod. Needless to say that this build also works with her Day form if I choose to go for more damage.

If you don't mind losing few seconds on sleep you can also go for 80% slow, 190% efficiency (works with channelled abilities) to have her 4th at minimal drain.

You can make a range based build to sleep everything around you and with augment new enemies will get slept too.

You can make various builds for her Duality augment.

 

That's the best part of Equinox that you can make many setups focused on different abilities and all of those setups are good. It's like having several warframes packed in one. She is so versatile and almost never gets boring to play. Why would you want to change that.

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7 hours ago, DjKaplis said:

Nothing needs to be done. Equinox is one of the most versatile and fun warframes and her abilities are great.

I would disagree on the basis of what her intended design is. She's meant to flow between two forms and two different ability sets with relative ease. But any form switch is painful. You lose Peaceful Provocation charge, you lose Mend and Maim charge (unless you, somehow, stuff the bandaid of an augment into a mod slot), you lose 25 energy (plus whatever you need to re-cast whatever abilities you just had active), and you lose a handful of pretty precious seconds setting everything back up. There's no ease to that. Indeed, all those costs disincentivize switching.

It isn't like you can't treat her as a versatile frame in terms of builds like you might with Chroma and energy colours, but that's the intent in Chroma (as he lacks an ability to switch elements on-the-fly). Equinox isn't meant to be build-locked like that.

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16 hours ago, Tyreaus said:

I would disagree on the basis of what her intended design is. She's meant to flow between two forms and two different ability sets with relative ease. But any form switch is painful. You lose Peaceful Provocation charge, you lose Mend and Maim charge (unless you, somehow, stuff the bandaid of an augment into a mod slot), you lose 25 energy (plus whatever you need to re-cast whatever abilities you just had active), and you lose a handful of pretty precious seconds setting everything back up. There's no ease to that. Indeed, all those costs disincentivize switching.

It isn't like you can't treat her as a versatile frame in terms of builds like you might with Chroma and energy colours, but that's the intent in Chroma (as he lacks an ability to switch elements on-the-fly). Equinox isn't meant to be build-locked like that.

So what are you suggesting? Her abilities and charged up auras not deactivating on form switch? 

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2 minutes ago, DjKaplis said:

Well buffs are always welcome I guess ^.^ Can't deny that these changes would be good for her.

Personally, I wouldn't mind at all if they felt the need to tool back her abilities a bit to compensate for a more fluid kit (and the combinations that come with it, like sleep->Maim->CL stab time). It's not like she's in a bad place power-wise, but I'd rather have a moderately powerful frame that feels like it should over a clunky nuke or magical swiss-army knife made out of lead. Or neutron-degenerate matter.

But it's also stupendously controversial to implement nerfs, even if they're balanced by something else, and I dare not incite the mob with their pitchforks and torches. >>;

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