Titania's Exalted Weapons + Limbo: A Quick Workshop!

[(PSN)DarkenPrime]

On 2018-06-11 at 7:18 PM, trunks013 said:

Limbo ! well thats gonna make a lot of happy tenno ^.^ 

🎉🎊😊🎊🎉

[selig_fay]

Il y a 8 heures, St0rmW0lf a dit :

So, Titania's guns will gain the ability to accept mods while her blade just gets a buff? Not to sound rude or anything, but does anyone actually use her 1st, 2nd, and 3rd abilities? Granted, I've yet to figure out how to use them effectively since I'm not necessarily fond of making my enemies float, but still. The fact remains that Titania only seems to do it to one enemy per cast while Rhino can do something similar to multiple enemies with just one stomp. Plus, Rhino doesn't make them fly off like some slow version of Mass Effect's biotics pushing enemies out of the battlefield similarly to how Shepard shoved a merc out the window. I forget if shooting enemies that Titania has floating will make them move and throw off a player's aim.

I use 1-3 abilities constantly. It makes me and my team immortal. With the second ability to enough to collect only 1 buff. The first ability is not only control, but also protection against status. The third ability pulls enemies, and they can be killed in 1 shot. Is she weak in these abilities? No. Just people use only razors and do not swing the radius and duration. 

And if they remove the chip with flying enemies, they castrate the fairy on the gameplay.

[unknown418]

20 hours ago, Kiwinille said:

Well, why would you need more than 1 minute of full invincibility and full enemy action freeze if you could get rid of them in no time? the duration nerf complaints sound more like lazy spoiled arguments because the game doesn't let you afk anymore. Where's the bad side to having to actually play the game and reacting more often?
And you don't have to use that same line of thinking for other warframe ability, because they already do. Limbo is a special case that has super long ability duration for his kit synergy not being able to clear as fast as a gun wielding player, which will be changed.

My complaint with the duration nerf is not due to me being lazy and spoiled(I don't afk with a max duration build on my limbo). From my point of view it's an unnecessary change that is not about getting the limbo player to "actually play the game" but insted to create more artificial busy work. As far as i know Limbo never ment to be a fast room clearer, as we have always had other warfames that can clear rooms faster than a gun wielding player.

[unknown418]

2 hours ago, Ratmut said:

Love how so many people seem to not understand why cutting the duration in half is a perfectly reasonable trade for everyone to be able to use all weapons.

There are some people who like playing solo and using stasis to set up shots, and for them it's a nerf with no trade offs.

[Hawk197]

These changes actually sound pretty useful.

 

Titania was already strong, thanks in part to Hells Chamber and dual stat elementals. Since she can use Secondary mods instead, it might be viable to build crit focused as well, or at worst, use less dual stats to get 100% status. Diwata needs a bit of love. I'm sure most Archwing melees do (I rarely do Archwing, and when I do I use my gun). Diwata just feels so... Underwhelming. Not sure if it's because it doesn't feel impactful, or it's the low crit/status, or the low damage, or what.

 

Limbo, while the lowered duration hurts, is a blessing. Limbo has been this solo only frame, or a frame you'd bring with friends. Now that we can shoot and throw (Hopefully weapons like Redeemer and Glaive won't be forgotten about), he's useful in all missions and all situations. Yeah, it sucks that the Headshot Rivens will take a hit, but at least you can still Zephyr with Scourge still, right? If it's really missed, maybe DE could remove the recast of Stasis and make it toggle between Enemy only and All. Personally, I'm a fan of any changes that allows me to use any frame I want in any mission I want.

[Jimmyikki]

I think there's still time to delete Limbo, it would open a slot for a really good Warframe 😎

[DatDarkOne]

9 hours ago, TruestGentleman said:

okay so now instead of having a really good primary in razorwing we have an okay secondary and probably a still S#&$ melee, how is this a buff? secondaries are the worst weapon type since hunter munitions was introduced.

The Dex Pixia never really needed Hunters to have massive slash procs.  When you consider the Prime mods available for secondaries, it actually can be considered a huge buff.  Buff of Diwata's stats is just something that was needed to at least put it on par.  

8 hours ago, Labobatory said:

wait, with the new "moddable exalted weapons" kind of thing, will warframe power strength still boost the damage of dex pixia, peacemaker, etc.?

Power Strength should still effect the power of exalted.  It does regardless of the mods you have.  So the modding change shouldn't effect this at all.  

[Oreades]

10 hours ago, Zylofan said:

I never said there was. You stated that no matter how you look at it this is a buff and I pointed out how that was untrue. 

Gaining the ability to use guns does nothing for me, I just lose half my durration. 

No matter how you slice it, from MY position, this is only a nerf.

Again except you gain the option to use the other 2/3rds of your loadout that was previously inaccessible. Even if you choose not to use it, you have still gained. 

Actually this is a perfect time to try and install some empathy for the other 34 frames in the game. The bulk of which built really nice guns. Put yourself in their shoes, is it fair to the rest of the game to say, Sure you built really nice guns but only use your melee?

Count your blessings Limbo didn't get the Ember treatment of needing to recast her channeling ability every ~10 seconds (not effected by mods) unless she wants its range cut in half. And it didn't even "solve" the problem they where aiming for, in fact if anything it kinda made it worse. 

So when you're feeling down about that timer reduction just think about the cluster that was Ember and be thankful you only have to recast your thing every ~40 seconds. 

[selig_fay]

il y a 8 minutes, Oreades a dit :

Again except you gain the option to use the other 2/3rds of your loadout that was previously inaccessible. Even if you choose not to use it, you have still gained. 

Actually this is a perfect time to try and install some empathy for the other 34 frames in the game. The bulk of which built really nice guns. Put yourself in their shoes, is it fair to the rest of the game to say, Sure you built really nice guns but only use your melee?

Count your blessings Limbo didn't get the Ember treatment of needing to recast her channeling ability every ~10 seconds (not effected by mods) unless she wants its range cut in half. And it didn't even "solve" the problem they where aiming for, in fact if anything it kinda made it worse. 

So when you're feeling down about that timer reduction just think about the cluster that was Ember and be thankful you only have to recast your thing every ~40 seconds. 

Сhanneling abilities are basically not needed by this game. They're just messing things up, and it's not just about Ember.

[Ceadeus]

I get the Limbo changes, but I also think it's really lame too.  Like part of what made the changes to Limbo so appealing was that really cool effect of lining up a whole bunch of projectiles and then letting them all loose at once.  Setting up tons of really cinematic scenes reminiscent of a certain bizarre adventure with a dome of knives pointed to a single target.

If these changes go through, it would be really nice to see some kind of way for Limbo to still toggle the projectile stopping effect just for himself.  That way we can both maintain the teamplay of these changes without losing any of the flair of Limbo's current setup.

[Oreades]

5 minutes ago, zhellon said:

Сhanneling abilities are basically not needed by this game. They're just messing things up, and it's not just about Ember.

Channeling abilities themselves are fine, the problem they seem to have run into and the reason I think they finally did something was when they added the bounty Set mods. Because those mods where direct power creep as there where mods that added directly to stats that where already pretty much "at their limit" like Range. Her range was tettering on a bit too much without them and went directly to waaaay too much with them. 

Then instead of just capping the range on WoF which would have pretty much solved everything..... they instead put in a Machiavellian set of mechanics that essentially caps her range but in a really round about and kinda really irritating way. At least the Limbo change is straight forward. 

[selig_fay]

il y a 12 minutes, Oreades a dit :

Channeling abilities themselves are fine

No, the problem is in streaming. Before that warframe was not feeling bad, сhanneling abilities are not prevented to use other abilities. Now they take the main part of the energy, which can not be restored without disconnection. This leaves you without energy, unless of course you have " mystical charges"

All of these changes Ember just the result of input Channeling abilities. If we had to constantly activate the "world on fire", this is not AFK farm. If "world on fire" were weak without additional abilities, it would not be AFk farm. But it's not, and not wanting to accept the fact that the new system is a complete failure, they dance with a tambourine.

[DatDarkOne]

1 minute ago, zhellon said:

No, the problem is in streaming. Before that warframe was not feeling bad, сhanneling abilities are not prevented to use other abilities. Now they take the main part of the energy, which can not be restored without disconnection.

All of these changes amber just the result of input Channeling abilities. If we had to constantly activate the "world on fire", this is not AFK farm. If "world on fire" were weak without additional abilities, it would not be AFk farm. But it's not, and not wanting to accept the fact that the new system is a complete failure, they dance with a tambourine.

Huh?

[unknown418]

46 minutes ago, Oreades said:

Again except you gain the option to use the other 2/3rds of your loadout that was previously inaccessible. Even if you choose not to use it, you have still gained. 

Actually this is a perfect time to try and install some empathy for the other 34 frames in the game. The bulk of which built really nice guns. Put yourself in their shoes, is it fair to the rest of the game to say, Sure you built really nice guns but only use your melee?

Count your blessings Limbo didn't get the Ember treatment of needing to recast her channeling ability every ~10 seconds (not effected by mods) unless she wants its range cut in half. And it didn't even "solve" the problem they where aiming for, in fact if anything it kinda made it worse. 

So when you're feeling down about that timer reduction just think about the cluster that was Ember and be thankful you only have to recast your thing every ~40 seconds. 

Stasis never made 2/3rds of your loadout inaccessible, sure they only did damage after stasis ended/got cancelled but they could still be used.

[Kiro-kun]

where s the fun in stoppping bullets mid air ,or projectiles  ,you guys take all the fun from the warframe 😞

 

[DatDarkOne]

10 minutes ago, unknown418 said:

Stasis never made 2/3rds of your loadout inaccessible, sure they only did damage after stasis ended/got cancelled but they could still be used.

 

[unknown418]

8 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

 

[(XBOX)AntiMomentum]

I've been seeing plenty of Limbo users complaining about how the upcoming changes to stasis are a "nerf". As a Limbo main who has been obsessed with Limbo since before his rework I can tell you it's more of a buff than anything. First of all the most obvious changes are that you and allies can will be able to shoot enemies and the enemies are still frozen, while the duration for stasis is cut in half. Now let's break this down. 

"I'm vulnerable when I recast stasis"
No, just use Rift Surge before you recast. From personal experience I have used rift surge for this exact purpose already. When soloing wave 75 akkad the rounds started to last longer than the duration of my stasis/cataclysm (staticlysm). Pretty much anything could one-shot the defense pod in those later rounds. So what did I do to safely recast my staticlysm so that the pod wouldn't get hurt in between casts? I used Rift Surge. With a range build you can CERTAINLY use rift surge to counter the halved duration of stasis. In fact, a negative range cataclysm will NOT get you past those wave 75 enemies (well beyond sortie level) as the enemy speed starts to increase faster than stasis alone can contain it, so you MUST use range ANYWAYS on anything beyond those levels. If it's a lower level where negative range can be used, the enemies likely won't have enough speed and damage to destroy the pod in between natural talent casts anyways 😕 In fact, if ur team is killing enemies before they reach the neg range staticlysm then great you can just pick up energy orbs. If ur team can't and the enemies do reach it, great you can just kill the enemies inside for the needed energy due to Limbo's passive (each enemy killed in rift grants energy) -_-

But let's take Rift Surge one (or several) steps further shall we? We will be able to shoot weapons in stasis and Im not sure the limbo users who are used to melee understand what this means. First of all, Limbo has this wonderful augment called Rift Torrent. In say, void interception I can cast rift surge once with enough enemies in my rift to get a little over 1000% percent damage (no extra buffs). Well, if just one enemy walks into the rift this allows you to RECAST rift surge and gain the damage buff from all the enemies in the rift AGAIN putting it at around 2000% (usually around 2400% actually, not sure why). Rift Torrent is effected by BOTH number of enemies and power strength. This means any enemy +speed frame like spova or rage equinox will indirectly buff limbo's damage as enemies will run into his rift faster. A Rhino Roar/nidus link or BOTH will also buff this damage even further PER CAST. Guess what? Rift Torrent isn't limited to melee damage!!!!!! I can't wait to DESTROY with my rift torrent arca plasmor!!!!! Combine the fact that RT buffs all of limbos damage and the fact that his passive gives energy for each enemy killed and the halved duration of stasis is nothing more than something you have to keep a closer eye on. Considering the potential advantages it brings, I'd say it's more than worth it.

Now I will agree that it'd be nice if Limbo had some way to freeze his own projectiles if he wanted to. I think this could be done with something like vaubans trap submenu or ivaras arrow submenu. But this new change that's about to put on Limbo will make him BOTH more powerful and far less of a hindrance on his team. 

[DragonCake96]

Holy, thank's DE.

thats make the Limbo Prime access much better :3

[Homicider]

On 2018-06-11 at 12:26 PM, Darkvramp said:

if it doesn't affect allies now, why does it need to have to half the duration?

Because it was ridiculously long.  I'm sure you already knew that.  Anyone who played Limbo knew it.   It could be modded out to well over a minute, which basically became God Mode for as long as it was up.  They only reason it wasn't nerfed before now was that Limbo was so unwelcome in groups that it didn't really matter.

[(PSN)venomwraith]

I am alright with the limbo rework however i would still like to be able to toggle projectile stasis for myself at least . can we please make that an option?

[DukeDublin]

Currently you can purchase infinite Titania blueprints from the market but the parts are not re-obtainable. I doubt its hard to remove the blueprint from the store and attach it to the quest to be consistent with current new releases, or to reward the parts by replaying the quest such as with Limbo. If you're going to update Titania, clean up the clutter for the new-player experience.

[Ikusias]

Limbo:

the changes to Stasis are interesting as they drastically reduce potential trolling and remove the constraint to powers or melee only, thus giving more options to both Limbo and his allies.

The corresponding nerf on stasis duration is more than justified as otherwise it would become the strongest and longest CC ability in the game, consider this:

 rift so no damage from other enemies outside of range, stasis locking all enemies there with you, apply damage -> any killed enemy pays back part of the energy spent for the combo; rinse and repeat = profit + practically immortal team... save for nullifiers and scrambus.

 

Titania:

the change to moddability with secondary weapons mods to Razorwing's Dex Pixia seems promising, altough putting this news in the same workshop as Limbo's automatically relegated it in background.

Any plan to make Diwata moddable as well? what about polarities and formaing both weapons? would Titania need to relevel or only the weapons would lose levels?!

Still Titania needs a revision of her her other powers, a buff on her base energy and/or an increase in base duration for razorwing.

#4 Razorwing:

Getting accettable flight time and damage (duration + strenght + efficency build) damages quite a lot the other powers:

- Lantern would actually benefit from power strenght, but with its glitches and range reduced by build the effect is negligible;

- Tribute has a damage component to its casting and its buff/debuff range is fixed, so it remains usable, the problem is casting range becomes literally "in the face" of the enemies... well at least tagging their souls its easier because it appears much nearer this way T_T, still tributed enemies are flung away by the power...

Razorwing would need a higer base duration or a bigger energy pool to sustain it, and it's basically a single target ability.

The razorflies, the multitarget part of the ability, can be quickly lost as enemies can shot them down and don't respawn without reactivating the power, doesn't benefit from any of Tribute's buffs and is stripped away when lantern is active, also the razorflyes in bigger tiles tend to wander off quite far, removing their benefit from Titania...

Chance of considerable self damage from tile collisions, certain elements (most vertical spires and some railings) in orokin tiles outright kill Titania on contact, made worse by

Overlarge hit box during razorwing: the actual hitbox extends at least a third around the ingame model in all directions, resulting in painful collisions and getting stuck in places

Sometimes the act of meleeing enemies can murded you for no reason... you die without being attacked, just from contat damage

Aviator and Agility Frift aren't compatible with it.

Innate vacuum is much shorter than the "official" 3m that all frames have, forcing a Titania to literally scrape the ground to collect drops and energy;

massive friction/dspeed reduction in proximity of surfaces, made more of a problem due to the difference between actual hitbox and ingame model (hitbox>>model);

Passive 50% miss chance applied on enemy fire is unreliable as high leveled enemies apparently get above 100% precision from scaling, doesn't work against missiles and the like.

Plains of Eidolon enemies have Air to Air missiles that are 100% hit chance on Titania bejond buffs, passive and razorflies shield... and use said missiles even when titania is not in razorwing also their damage is scaled to oneshot archwings in the plains, so the effect on titania is an actual oneshot... this hasn't been addressed since the release of her augment -> intended and dastard* nerf?

*http://en.dsynonym.com/dastard

Suggestions:

-> fix hitbox in player's favor; her hitbox vertical dimensions are particularly horrible, making her bump her head under most doors when trying to cross high;

-> remove collision damage, if a Volt is in your party you die, many times, especially when crossing doors... doors are her worst enemy;

-> remove razorflies from razorwing and make them their own power, similarly to Itzal's archwing #4 drone escort

-> reduce base energy consumption or increase base power duration to compensate for loss odf razorflies, let 2souls" collected in razorwing replenish a bit of energy and/or shields

-> revert Plains of Eidolon enemies hate for Titania, without razorwing blitz augment she's a dead fairy! and having anti air missiles after her even in standard mode is ridiculous.

 

#2 Tribute:

A good ability on paper, a massive hassle in actual use:

- need to spawn it repeatedly against specific enemies to get the desired buff, all buffs require 5 stacks from specific types of enemies,

- need to go and pick up the "souls" that spawn,

- debuffs ranges are pretty mediocre and "locked" indipendently of modding,

- debuff strenght is usually too low at max stacks and unreliable,

Dust: range 30m <> -50% precision to enemies in range / Thorns 40m <> 25% damage reflection + benefits allies within 35m / Entangle 10m <> -25% enemy movement speed / Full moon +75% companions damage + benefits allies within 30m

- debuff on enemies in range instead of party buffs centered on titania herself -> reliability takes a huge hit, in particular in the Plains or in large tiles were enemies engage from far further away than her powers ranges

- power strenght influences the "punch" separating the "soul" from the enemy and results in flinging a target across the map and out of debuff range more often than not.

- nullifiers or  scrambus wipe all the accumulated buffs at the same time instantly,

- horribly energy intensive, to maximixe all buffs would require at least twice more energy than Titania's standard energy pool...

Suggestions:

-> make Dust a buff centered on Titania and affecting allies and herself with a +50% hit evasion, give Thorns a bit more damage reflection,  increase entangle range and rethink Full Moon effect as it's lacklustre and useless to Titania herself most of the time...

-> make Tribute an ability with selectable effect like Vauban's Minelayer or Ivara's Quiver, so we can choose which buff we want from enemies

-> add a way that makes the "souls" drift towards Titania, at least in razorwing and/or give back a bit of energy

 

#3 Lantern and #1 Spellbind:

Both suffer from the same problem: enemies are sent in the stratosphere 9/10 of times, destroying any utility the powers could offer.

Suggestion: Due to their similitude the 2 powers could be simply folded up in a single slot, with a quick press activating Spellbind and a short hold and release activating Lantern with only its CC ability (more on that following), thus freeing a slot for a new power.

 

Suggestion for new power:

#3 Razorflies:

By folding together lantern and Spellbind, make razorflies in its own power.

Targeted power with duration and range (fixed minimum range or based on power strenght):

- Casted on an enemy within range, the razorflies attack it until it dies or duration ends and then return to flutter around titania for remaining duration, leaving to attack enemies that come near (range/2 or range/3) or that attack Titania;

- Casted without target, the razorflies orbit titania in their passive mode, attacking enemies coming in range or that attack Titania, if "souls" from Tribute are/came in range, razorflies pick them up and pull/push them to their lady with speed proportional to power energy strenght;

- Casted on an enemy under Spellbind, the razorflies attack that enemy until dead or Spellbind ends and then dissolve

- Casted on an enemy under Lantern, all enemies in the immediate area suffer damage (range/2 or range/3 ?), like with the current ability, with stacking castings to increase DPS or renewing Aoe effect duration. When Lantern ends the razorflies attack remaining enemies for the residual duration or, lacking targets, return orbiting Titania until time expires;

- casted while in Razorwing: razorflies behave like their curent iteration plus the "souls" retrieval aspect if no hostiles are in range - (innate or augment) razorflies are sacrificed to stop missiles or other instances of unavoidable damage from hitting Titania herself;

- casted in razorwing on lantern target activates stacking Aoe effect, if razorflies are already active, the current swarm is given to Lantern and recasting gives back titania's fighter escort.

 

Apologies for the wall of text, please comment/criticize

 

[hotpie09]

this update will make me use him more often to support the squads im in. i like the look and the concept of a time wizard.

[h8seekr]

At least DE nerfed Limbo *before* PA.  I'm still sitting on literal truck-tons of salt after buying the Inferno Ember pack only to have Ember "reworked" and Overheat removed and replaced with Accelerant a few weeks later. 😡

QOL change for Limbo is great for making him team friendly.  The direct nerf OTH isn't remotely needed.

My hype for this PA is all but gone. At least it saved me $140.