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Titania's Exalted Weapons + Limbo: A Quick Workshop!


[DE]Rebecca

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I already adressed some issues here:

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/943816-changes-i-would-like-to-see-in-limbo-prime/

I was fine with Limbo before is rework. I was fine with Limbo after his rework. And I'll probably be fine with him after this as well... What vexis me is that ONCE MORE limbo players are obligated to CHANGE in detriment of a Community that just doesn't take the time to learn how to play with him in a squad or even cares to give him a chance. This is borderline "framist"...

So, the best-simplest way to "fix" him (imo) is just make Banish unaffect other players. POINT. (Unless in specific circunstances - see link above). This would make him more like other frames (Frost or Ember, where element attacks also only affect enemies), but then he wouldn't be special!

The second is to Buff Limbo Bomb. In Sanctuary, I have tried diferent enemies parties and mod set ups but the "average damage" works very VERY poorly. The Algorithm is lowering the damage by dividing it disporpotionally betwen all enemies inside (I can make a video if you like).

Also, this new change will just benefit a squad in Cataclism. If Limbo just Banishes and Stasis enemies, allies will not be able to damage them (ence, still annoying other players).

In conclusion, it is my belief that no matter what you do to him I will still play with him SOLO... And, with that to, I am fine.

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il y a 20 minutes, (PS4)leonidasx666 a dit :

Also, this new change carries some questions:

-How will enemy bullets behave comming from outside Cataclism? Will statis still affect those? 

-How will it affect ally fire also comming from outside Cataclism? Will it behave the same or diferently? Or will allies have to be inside it to work?

-How will allies damage enemies in Rift and Statis if they are NOT in Rift themselves? (THIS issue will eventually come, I am certain of it).

Same old. You can't shoot at the enemies in the rift, while in the real space, since the bullet cannot go into the rift. All they do is let the allies shoot while in the rift. Read about the mechanics of limbo.

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dang Limbo change means I can't use him to cheese the Aimglide headshot rivens anymore, and while the buffs to Titaina's exalted weapons is nice will her other abilities get a look as well? like enemies hit by her 3 drifting off into space, and the sheer amount of micro management that her 2 requires?

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OK,  keep what your doing to limbo, but, stasis should still freeze time for user limbo's projectiles (add 40% crit damage on release), ending stasis should set the enemies into motion slowly ramping up speed 0 to 100% in about 2/3 to 1 times the duration of stasis's effect  (you call stasis godly, but it isnt the only power to stop a lot of enemies in their tracks, is Bastille godly, is sleep godly, is stop godly?)

also, remove portal from rift dash, add it to his first power, make it slightly bigger, allow bullets shot through it to affect both planes and add 70% crit damage to projectiles fired through it (would be useful to quiet down the complaints of non limbos pre-rework "i can't shoot those glowy guys")

and, i just want to repeat myself, a constantly shrinking cataclysm is a pain when dealing with enemies at the border, for everyone involved

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1 hour ago, (PS4)leonidasx666 said:

Also, this new change carries some questions:

-How will enemy bullets behave comming from outside Cataclism? Will statis still affect those?

-How will it affect ally fire also comming from outside Cataclism? Will it behave the same or diferently? Or will allies have to be inside it to work?

-How will allies damage enemies in Rift and Statis if they are NOT in Rift themselves? (THIS issue will eventually come, I am certain of it).

In conclusion, it is my belief that no matter what you do to him I will still play with him SOLO... And, with that to, I am fine.

 

enemies outside of the rift dont need to have their bullets frozen because they cant hurt you anyway.

allies shouldnt be trying to shoot enemies in the rift from the outside because they cant do anything to them.

limbo can be the master magician/dimension lord without directly influencing how other people interact with their weapons and the enemies. this whole notion that its ok for 1 player to controll his whole team is quite ridiculous. i and many others dont log into warframe to have 1 player who is playing limbo impose rules on how we play and interact with the environment when no other frame does this. it feels like its such a crime to not want to fall under the control of limbo. ive stopped playing limbo for a long while because i cannot play him to his full potential without stepping on toes. i shouldnt have to feel like that. dont we all come to play warframe to have fun with each other? do people really think its ok to control how other people play? DE needs to think really hard about this. and put a proper rework on limbo.

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8 minutes ago, (XB1)Ein Sof said:

With the Titania change, she really is going to be a miniature flying Mesa now. What about her other abilities though? They're kinda wonky, yeah?

Honestly the only ones I use are her 1,3, and 4.  Her 3 Lantern, I'll only use sparingly to help during bullet hell situations. 

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17 minutes ago, KlutzMeister said:

OK,  keep what your doing to limbo, but, stasis should still freeze time for user limbo's projectiles (add 40% crit damage on release), ending stasis should set the enemies into motion slowly ramping up speed 0 to 100% in about 2/3 to 1 times the duration of stasis's effect  (you call stasis godly, but it isnt the only power to stop a lot of enemies in their tracks, is Bastille godly, is sleep godly, is stop godly?)

also, remove portal from rift dash, add it to his first power, make it slightly bigger, allow bullets shot through it to affect both planes and add 70% crit damage to projectiles fired through it (would be useful to quiet down the complaints of non limbos pre-rework "i can't shoot those glowy guys")

and, i just want to repeat myself, a constantly shrinking cataclysm is a pain when dealing with enemies at the border, for everyone involved

Stasis is vastly superior to any of the abilities you mentioned. Bastille is limited by range and number of targets while not making the caster invulnerable, sleep is limited by range, duration and the same non-invulnerability for non affected targets.

Limbo's stop IS godly because it literally affects every target in the rift, which makes him completely invulnerable for its entire duration. Factor in the fact that you can be in the rift, while outside cataclysm, killing everything inside while you're 100% safe outside. Yes, it is godly compared with the abilities you mentioned. 

With the changes, the only limiting factor will be duration. And even then it isn't a major issue. 

 

Constantly shrinking cataclysm, paired with stasis, is what allows cataclysm's 300 impact damage to be even remotely viable as a source of damage. Enemies at the border is largely problematic if you don't have the size + duration balanced correctly.

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19 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

enemies outside of the rift dont need to have their bullets frozen because they cant hurt you anyway.

allies shouldnt be trying to shoot enemies in the rift from the outside because they cant do anything to them.

limbo can be the master magician/dimension lord without directly influencing how other people interact with their weapons and the enemies. this whole notion that its ok for 1 player to controll his whole team is quite ridiculous. i and many others dont log into warframe to have 1 player who is playing limbo impose rules on how we play and interact with the environment when no other frame does this. it feels like its such a crime to not want to fall under the control of limbo. ive stopped playing limbo for a long while because i cannot play him to his full potential without stepping on toes. i shouldnt have to feel like that. dont we all come to play warframe to have fun with each other? do people really think its ok to control how other people play? DE needs to think really hard about this. and put a proper rework on limbo.

The problem isn't so much that limbo has the ability to control how players play the game, it has to do with knowing when it is appropriate to do certain things, and having a build that doesn't just shut everything down whenever you do something.

 

One mistake I see a lot of limbo players make is just ramping range up as high as it can go. It really doesn't need max range. Heck, 110% range is more than enough for cataclysm to be plenty big, but not so huge that it ruins the flow of a match. Heck, negative range can be vastly superior to high range, as well. With negative range you can completely shut down choke points with stasis + cataclysm without affecting target objectives. 

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i would perfer if limbo could pull and push enemies to and from his current plane, maybe even use the marking system like ash to do so
so i dont have to jump out of the rift into a room full of enemies when i want to fight some in the rift, especially withought haveing to stop time

 

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6 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

snip

all i was trying to say is that stasis isn't so far removed from everything else to be considered godly. is it really powerful? yeah. should it be toned down? maybe. Is it the only power to stop enemies in their tracks and give you sweet reprieve from the hail of bullets, allowing you to continue living? not even close.

so much in this game is amazingly powerful,  everything has its drawbacks. tell me the difference between spamming cc and never getting hit and spamming cc in the void and never getting hit? yes Bastille is limited by range strength and duration, but can be spammed making up for most of the drawbacks. sending enemies to the rift effectively requires range and duration...spamming requires you to collapse cataclysm, which leaves you wide open to any not already in your clutches, like most cc frames.

I still stand by my ideas, but I think the return to normal speed that i proposed should be affected by strength mods to better limit it's potential and making strength feel like so much of a dump stat.

also, 300 impact an effective damage power? you what!?

infant, let me adjust my ideas.

 

'OK,  keep what your doing to limbo, but, stasis should still freeze time for user limbo's projectiles (add 40% crit damage on release), ending stasis should set the enemies into motion slowly ramping up speed 0 to 100% in about 2/3 to 1 times the duration of stasis's effect  (effected by power strength)

also, remove portal from rift dash, add it to his first power, make it slightly bigger, allow bullets shot through it to affect both planes and add 70% crit damage to projectiles fired through it (would be useful to quiet down the complaints of non limbos pre-rework "i can't shoot those glowy guys")

and, i just want to repeat myself, a constantly shrinking cataclysm is a pain when dealing with enemies at the border, for everyone involved

in order to add more utility to power strength and to maybe even add a little limbomb back into the game, have cataclysm collapse damage be affected by power strength and damage dealt in the cataclysm (limbom was broken,yeah, but because it didn't really require power strength and didn't require much more than tapping 4 over and over)'

thanks for helping me improve my idea, lets hope whatever happens, limbo is still fun to play.

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Can we get a little more duration for stasis, while keeping the timestop for limbo's projectiles themselves? since that would mean others in the team get to play however they want, but limbo himself is still limited, which would make the increased base duration more fair

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1 hour ago, Leqesai said:

The problem isn't so much that limbo has the ability to control how players play the game, it has to do with knowing when it is appropriate to do certain things, and having a build that doesn't just shut everything down whenever you do something.

 

One mistake I see a lot of limbo players make is just ramping range up as high as it can go. It really doesn't need max range. Heck, 110% range is more than enough for cataclysm to be plenty big, but not so huge that it ruins the flow of a match. Heck, negative range can be vastly superior to high range, as well. With negative range you can completely shut down choke points with stasis + cataclysm without affecting target objectives. 

how is it a mistake? if people want to build max range or any variation of range why cant they? they are making their build work. the problem is not the build. any build you decide to use should be viable. this is the thing i see limbo players using to divide themselves between good and bad. as i said if a player needs to make a build to not annoy their team then whatever is causing people to do that needs to change.

"The Rift" is something here forcing people into a very specific build and when someone doesnt use that build all of a sudden they are "Bad limbos". do you not see how crazy that sounds. this is not a competitive game. we should be celebrating build diversity not shunning people for playing the builds they decide work for their playstyle.

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il y a 8 minutes, EinheriarJudith a dit :

how is it a mistake? if people want to build max range or any variation of range why cant they? they are making their build work. the problem is not the build. any build you decide to use should be viable. this is the thing i see limbo players using to divide themselves between good and bad. as i said if a player needs to make a build to not annoy their team then whatever is causing people to do that needs to change.

"The Rift" is something here forcing people into a very specific build and when someone doesnt use that build all of a sudden they are "Bad limbos". do you not see how crazy that sounds. this is not a competitive game. we should be celebrating build diversity not shunning people for playing the builds they decide work for their playstyle.

Lol. So with all warframes. There are good builds, and there are inefficient ones. The problem is that it is impossible to balance in all respects. 

For example, limbo in power and energy efficiency = bad limbo. (Assembly without duration is ineffective in any case.)

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Just now, zhellon said:

Lol. So with all warframes. There are good builds, and there are inefficient ones. The problem is that it is impossible to balance in all respects. 

For example, limbo in power = bad limbo.

no it doesn't a limbo having power strength does not make him bad. you don't get to decide that for people.

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18 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

no it doesn't a limbo having power strength does not make him bad. you don't get to decide that for people.

The mistake I was referring to was more with regard to people defaulting to a specific build because it seems logical. Max range seems to make a lot of sense but limbo is a little trickier insofar as he directly impacts the others on his team.

My point is that he has perfectly viable build options that don't necessarily force platstyles

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ZA WARUDO!!!

Please amend that change on time stop a little further... make it stop time for enemies -and Limbo's relevant weapons/pets/etc-, just not other Tenno's weapons/pets/etc. The Limbo has control, and can game the ability appropriately, it's only the effect on other players that needed to go. By putting back the time stop on Limbo's assets, you retain the richness it involves and can maybe reduce the duration a little less, while still getting rid of the whole squad-unfriendly aspect of the ability.

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On 2018-06-11 at 11:11 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

To put Limbo's Stasis in a more cooperative position, it has been changed to only stop-time for Enemies. Limbo's gear and all Ally gear will continue to function. But, because complete time-halting for enemies within the Rift is akin to godly power, the duration of the ability has been shortened overall - from base 30 seconds to 15 seconds. This is of course affected by Mods.

THANK YOU, why did it take you so long to do this? the most annoying thing is getting into a pub sortie and bringing your heavy hitting gear only to be cucked by a giant bubble limbo who wants to lawlezmode it. completely nullifying your time and sometimes money you put into said gear.

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