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[DE]Rebecca

Titania's Exalted Weapons + Limbo: A Quick Workshop!

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9 minutes ago, YagoXiten said:

Yes, but Limbo has infinite energy.

I don't remember saying that Limbo would run out of energy.

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Are there any other changes in the works for Titania coming later? Or is this the only one you guys have planned?

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40 minutes ago, Amrith_Menon said:

Aren't the new frame reworks op? Just look at saryn, now limbo ........ hope more frames get this treatment (still hurt about jump trin nerf)

Not really OP, more like he is less of a nuisance to teammates.  Also, Saryn isn’t even that OP unless you are doing Onslaught, which is basically her playground.

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15 minutes ago, unknown418 said:

I don't remember saying that Limbo would run out of energy.

These are the drawbacks of casting an ability multiple times:

  • Energy cost
  • Time lost to the cast animation
  • How frequently you must remember to cast it
  • Unique properties like Magnetize's stacking damage or Molecular Prime's range

This is Limbo, so the first and fourth do not apply. The time spent in cast animation is negligible as Stasis has one of the shortest cast animations in the game. So that just leaves how frequently you must remember to cast the ability. Well, currently Stasis is turned off prematurely all the time so that your bullets will hit their targets. This means you're often already shutting it off and recasting it before the duration has expired. Now you don't have to recast it to damage enemies, so you're going to turn it off after you kill everything and recast it as you begin pulling enemies into the rift. The only time this is really an exception is if you were spending the entire time Stasis was active creating a wax museum. I highly doubt you were, but, even if you were...that's not a thing that you can do anymore, so, what's it matter? You won't be using that sort of time anymore.

Edited by YagoXiten
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Well that's bland.

Removing such a unique property from an ability just because people cried about cata+stasis seems unfair. You could make all bullets/projectiles inside cataclysm not get frozen by stasis instead of removing the bullet freeze completely. Or just reduce the damage/projectile velocity while stasis is active. Because this is what people hate, right? Cata+stasis combo. Or maybe make it so that only limbo gets affected by the stasis bullet freeze. Or change it so that when you press 2 again it freezes bullets too, with an advantage over not freezing them.

We still need an augment for stasis, so the possibilities are endless.

Besides that, halving the duration is too much, make it 20 seconds or something.

plus we still have melee

Edited by Cekomen
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Good one on the Limbo changes, but can you please put the ability for Limbo to stop his own bullets/projectiles back. This made for not only some entertaining builds and strategies, but made Limbo a lot more of a tactician than you'd think. For instance, running Limbo on the Eris hive mission. It is much simplified when you can use your Lenz, Astilla, or any other weapon of that type, to queue up shots on the 5 tumors, get in position to kill the hive, pop out and press 2. Also on the stasis duration change, can we at least then get it so that pressing 2 refreshes your stasis buff instead of removing it (if you plan on keeping the duration change)? Some builds (like low-duration rift torrent) use stasis as a fallback if you get overwhelmed by enemies. Where you can just press 2 and let them fall out of the rift. With the change, this duration being a lot less, you would either have to cast stasis twice (with good timing) or have the ability to keep your enemies in stasis until they fall out (by refreshing).

 

Not sure if these issues have been outlined here yet, but just from what I've played around with as Limbo (he's one of my 3 mains, along with Mesa and Nidus) these are a couple of problems I would run into (and I'm sure others will as well).

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9 minutes ago, Riccorbypro said:

Good one on the Limbo changes, but can you please put the ability for Limbo to stop his own bullets/projectiles back. This made for not only some entertaining builds and strategies, but made Limbo a lot more of a tactician than you'd think. For instance, running Limbo on the Eris hive mission. It is much simplified when you can use your Lenz, Astilla, or any other weapon of that type, to queue up shots on the 5 tumors, get in position to kill the hive, pop out and press 2. Also on the stasis duration change, can we at least then get it so that pressing 2 refreshes your stasis buff instead of removing it (if you plan on keeping the duration change)? Some builds (like low-duration rift torrent) use stasis as a fallback if you get overwhelmed by enemies. Where you can just press 2 and let them fall out of the rift. With the change, this duration being a lot less, you would either have to cast stasis twice (with good timing) or have the ability to keep your enemies in stasis until they fall out (by refreshing).

 

Not sure if these issues have been outlined here yet, but just from what I've played around with as Limbo (he's one of my 3 mains, along with Mesa and Nidus) these are a couple of problems I would run into (and I'm sure others will as well).

This is good for Limbo in solo play. But in group play it makes Limbo feel terrible. His allies will kill everything before he gets a chance to do so. They can't really split the difference in that way.

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As an avid Limbo player, I personally feel that dropping Stasis to 15 seconds base, is a little too low,  I feel 18 seconds would be a more playable number.

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Alright, I'm just a normal Tenno passing by, I've gone through missions both as and with Limbos (the good and the bad) and this is just my view on the topic:

1. I can deal with not affecting ally bullets and reducing the duration as a trade-off. I don't really want to admit it since I was enjoying it a lot, but Limbo's duration on his abilities were already pretty long, and while I will miss my extended za warudo, I can see the reason behind it. A different way of approaching it would be welcome too, but I'm not smart enough to come up with alternatives - some of the augment ideas in this forum seem quite sound to me. I'll leave it to the more intelligent Tenno out there.

2. Limbo's bullets being affected, I am not okay with. As a personal opinion, stopping time and releasing all bullets at once is a mechanic that adds great enjoyment to Limbo, and should be accessible to Limbo players. It would hinder his ability to kill enemies, but everything else would probably kill before Limbo does in public games anyways, and solo Limbo players would have enjoyed limbo as he is. I certainly found a lot of fun with the mechanic, and hope that it continues to be a key feature of Limbo.

Alright, I just enjoy za warudoing the **** out of enemies, but that would be too opinion-based, now wouldn't it?

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Can we get a change to Titania's 3 so that it actually gets 'locked in place' instead of getting shot at by a teammate and sent flying far out of the range it would be useful at? Sure, it's fun to play beach ball with a Bombard, but...no thanks in actual missions. Please.

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Im glad Limbo is getting a change to make him more Public Team friendly. I'm sure Limbo players will know what I mean. However, the way I play Warframe and would love to play Limbo, as he's my second favorite Warframe, doesn't really mix well with one specific thing about Limbo. The fact that Banish only works on enemies and allies that are on the same plane as Limbo. Now I understand why this is, it'd be too easy otherwise. That part I don't mind. Although, what I would love to see is a change to Rift Surge. Currently, only triggering banish or Cataclysm on a Surged enemy cause other enemies to enter the rift plane. I would love to either change or add to it, so that KILLING a surged enemy would bring more enemies for 100% of the duration left on Banish. I feel this would make Limbo a lot more noobie friendly. It would also fit my playstyle much more. 

As far as Titania goes, I'm glad to see her getting touched. I'm sure this isn't what DE meant when they confirmed she's getting a rework, so I won't be too harsh on this. I frankly don't feel that Dex Pixia needs to use Pistol Mods. I'm sure correct balancing will take place so that it's not overpowered. However, I would love to see her Lantern and Tribute get a change. Tribute i feel doesn't reward the player enough for the work they have to put into it. Also the fact that it's random and not the full percentage is also rather annoying. I would like to see the same buffs and debuffs occur, whoever, like Chroma's or Excals color changing elemental, we would be able to choose which buff/debuff occurs in what order. Moving on to Lantern. I feel we should be able to control the Lanterned target not just with our attacks, but like how Zephyr's Tornados work. Aim and drag basically. 

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2 hours ago, Lholland said:

Not really OP, more like he is less of a nuisance to teammates.  Also, Saryn isn’t even that OP unless you are doing Onslaught, which is basically her playground.

can we stop using "OP" to say overpowered? since its one word. Yea its OP, overly pathetic.

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I guess most of the replies are relating to Limbo coz hey! who uses Titania right....

Anyway I would really like to see some small changes to Titania's ability maybe not exactly a direct change to her ability more like descriptions or FX of the abilities.

  1.  Pease makes her pixie dust 1st ability to have better more visible FX. I know its a dust or sand or whatever you guys had in mind, but since the energy being thrown is almost not visible, it made it seems like Titania's 1st ability is 1 target skill like Oberon or Saryn while in fact it works much more like Frost's1st ability. But at least we all can see what Frost is shooting out of his hand. So please improve the visual FX of Titania's 1st ability.
  2. Please gives better description of the abilities. For example her 2nd ability which says "gives random buff" when it actually gives 3 debuffs to the enemies and 1 buff for companion. Not to mention its not random actually, certain enemies give certain debuff. Speaking of which since the number of enemy types increase please also update the enemy-debuff type. What I mean is I am getting the debuff from lancer (light) type enemies from a heavy type like Nox. So just improve the description and update some of the enemy type debuff to work better.
  3. Now the 3rd ability is the annoying one to use. It is fun to hang it in place and makes it float which is similar to 1st ability (seems kinda a bit redundant). How about actually just stops the enemy in place and make its glow to attracts enemies. Her 3rd ability could use a rework like increase the enemies attracting range and perhaps also make enemies, those are attracted to the lantern to switch to melee and attacking the glowing-stopped in place-targeted enemy. This way it could be a good emergency crowd control ability.
  4. One more important thing I almost forgot. Please like I am begging you DE devs team, please increase the energy pool of Titania. For the caster type that she maybe or her 4th toggle ability which drains energy/s her less than 500 energy pool is too small IMHO. At least make her energy pool as high as Oberon or Nova.

That's it for now for my thoughts in possible changes to Titania which are not only focusing on her 4th ability. Titania is actually fun to use and a good support frame as well. Just her ability description or visual FX may makes it hard for people to actually understand her. Even if you guys decided to give a complete rework to Titania I think only a handful of people might gives a complaint or comment on it. Since its not that popular at all. But I am sure just with these 4 changes Titania will flutter publicly more often not just as a mastery fodder but also as a frame good enough for sorties.

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3 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

Actually Argon Scope does work on Artemis Bow.  It requires getting the headshot with the center arrow of the spread to trigger it.  I'm not sure about Concentrated Arrow.  Either way, you should be able to see how using Argon Scope would be a wasted mod slot.  

Just an example, not a build suggestion.  Really thinking about how body count is ignored while drifting contact works and wondering if it will normalize so everything just works, or is unequippable.

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37 minutes ago, Callback said:

Just an example, not a build suggestion.  Really thinking about how body count is ignored while drifting contact works and wondering if it will normalize so everything just works, or is unequippable.

I can't really say for sure exactly how it will be after the change.  @DeMonkey can probably give you more insight of the finer working of exalted melee.  Most of my experience with exalted weapons is with Ivara and Titania.  Titania being the only one with exalted melee that I regularly use, and she's a special case in that.  

Having said that, you now got me wondering if mods like Dispatch Overdrive work or will work.  I already know that Healing Return does for Titania.  

Edited by DatDarkOne

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23 minutes ago, Callback said:

Really thinking about how body count is ignored while drifting contact works and wondering if it will normalize so everything just works, or is unequippable.

Hmmm, I'm not sure that it matters if I'm honest.

I believe Drifting Contact will continue to work, personally. However even if it doesn't it wouldn't have too much of an impact. 

Look at it like this, which frames with Unique melee weapons (I refuse to call them exalted) can actually make use of the combo metre? Valkyr will be toggling Hysteria too frequently to make much headway with it and Excalibur doesn't get the bonus half the time since the waves don't count towards it. Titania lacks the energy sustain required to do so for extended periods of time since Rage isn't an overly viable mod for her due to survivability, in my experience anyway.

So that really leaves Wukong as the frame that can make viable use of the combo counter, and to that end Naramon does a perfectly good job at keeping it high.

As for ''everything works'', or making mods unequippable, I assume certain stuff will just become unequippable. Due to their statement that there will be no Rivens for Unique weapons I can only assume that they're going to continue with ''some mods are just too powerful for them''.

Mods like Dispatch Overdrive and Healing Return should be fine, the exclusions seem to be primarily around Acolyte mods and class/weapon restricted mods.

And yes, @DatDarkOne, Dispatch Overdrive currently works.

 

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3 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

And yes, @DatDarkOne, Dispatch Overdrive currently works.

Thank you.  I wasn't able to hop in game and test.  Appreciate it.  :clem:

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On ‎2018‎-‎06‎-‎11 at 11:11 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Two small workshops in one! We'll start with Titania because she truly is the smallest of all.

To put Limbo's Stasis in a more cooperative position, it has been changed to only stop-time for Enemies. Limbo's gear and all Ally gear will continue to function. But, because complete time-halting for enemies within the Rift is akin to godly power, the duration of the ability has been shortened overall - from base 30 seconds to 15 seconds. This is of course affected by Mods.

While I applaud the concept that Limbo finally no longer affects friendly weapons fire, I do not get the logic of cutting duration on stasis. Warframe powers and melee weapons already were godly when combined with stasis & rift use, so adding normal gun fire doesn't really benefit people beyond Limbo working better with random teams. Premade teams worked out all the benefits ahead of time and took warframes that were synergistic.

Forcing Limbo to recast stasis twice as often isn't more fun for limbo, given limbos long cast times, you are forcing natural talent as a mod pick. This isn't even an energy economy thing since limbo regens energy in Rift in general, gets more from kills, and comes with a dash in the aura polarity so Energy Siphon is a common pick. Not to mention the fact that Stasis doesn't do anything to most bosses or mini-bosses.

The duration adjustment just feels like a busy work increase rather than a refinement of play adjustment. Kind of the inverse of what has happened with Saryns spores, in that she used to be about constantly recasting it, now its fire and forget for the most part.

Incidentally can we get some one to look at the flying infested that randomly shoot extractors from outside a cataclysm bubble despite stasis being used or perhaps the fact that there is a lot of inconsistency with which button or control surfaces can and can not be used while in the rift?

Additionally can we change Cataclysm to break containers on cast, rather than when we pop it/duration runs out, given the loss of melee weapons being used for container breaking and the fact that the Looter mod on Carrier is slower than molasses when it comes to breaking things, it would make for a great quality of life improvement.

To say that there are refinements for Limbo that are needed far more than adjusting Stasis is an understatement. Personally I would love to see a rework of limbos 3 since it doesn't benefit you much unless you are using its augment.

A short list of additional changes:

1. change Banish back to it's single target so that limbo players stop accidentally banishing groups even when modding for negative range. Just make an augment for Banish that allows for groups to be targeted. Player choice is increased and team mates by default aren't trolled.

2. Get rid of the rift portal left behind when limbo dashes. Enemies can't use it to get at limbo so it only can be used on team mates, which most of them time they don't want to go through any ways, but they were following just behind, which means they are forced into it. Half the time as a limbo player I am jumping high into the air to dash just so I don't accidentally banish some one who isn't paying attention to where they are going. If they want to be banished, let them ask for it.

3. Since the Rift is composed of Void energy, why is there no special interaction with Sentient enemies when it comes to Limbos powers?

Edited by Jade-Lion
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On 2018-06-11 at 1:18 PM, Frenjo said:

As someone who plays Limbo almost exclusively, with a developed playstyle. I can totally see the value of removing time stop affecting ally weapons, but why self weapons? It completely removes one of the core concepts of stasis, which was to have a line-up-your-shots-then-release-for-satisfaction playstyle. I kinda like it for the sake of not getting screamed at whenever I play my main warframe, but then, when do I ever actually use stasis unless the pod's dying?

Addendum: I'm not okay with the duration change of half base duration to stasis, at least make it 20 seconds. Seems that the playstyle that was originally encouraged has just gone straight out the window. Although I hope this'll encourage less 4 + 2 spam cataclysm-stasis, which even as someone who mains Limbo I really don't like outside of certain circumstances.

I fully agree my friend. As a fellow Limbo main (we spoke before on the forums), I cannot disagree with any of your suggestions. 20 seconds is more fair. Although I didn't depend on a long Stasis duration, 15 is just ridiculously low.

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58 minutes ago, ApocalypticFlameFury said:

I fully agree my friend. As a fellow Limbo main (we spoke before on the forums), I cannot disagree with any of your suggestions. 20 seconds is more fair. Although I didn't depend on a long Stasis duration, 15 is just ridiculously low.

AND STOPPING PROJECTILES WAS SOO GODLY. Although now, there is an upside. Even though we can't stop projectiles for ourselves (WE BETTER BE ABLE TO STOP THEIR PROJECTILES STILL) not stopping our own will allow us to tear through crowds with a good Rift Torrent based build. But I'm gonna miss lining up headshots.

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48 minutes ago, ApocalypticFlameFury said:

AND STOPPING PROJECTILES WAS SOO GODLY. Although now, there is an upside. Even though we can't stop projectiles for ourselves (WE BETTER BE ABLE TO STOP THEIR PROJECTILES STILL) not stopping our own will allow us to tear through crowds with a good Rift Torrent based build. But I'm gonna miss lining up headshots.

the moment an enemy is placed in the rift or touches the rift via cataclysm they are frozen while stasis is active. there is no enemy fire to stop. enemies cannot even shoot you if they are outside of the rift so what is the point of making enemy fire stop when they cant even shoot where it matters?

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On 2018-06-11 at 3:14 PM, Frenjo said:

I didn't know who Dio was until people started making memes about it, and I still hate that meme 😛

Also, i'm sure that it is a boon to my team, but I fall within the rare case where I only ever play with friends or people who know what i'm doing and where it comes in. I personally like to stop my own bullets, line up some shots for a bit of a showoff and then snap my fingers and everything's dead. It's a fun mechanic, and it should at least be made an augment mod for self if it's not default behaviour.

An augment for self sounds great, but not in the base ability.

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